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Final Fantasy XIII Spoiler Thread

RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway?Full Members
edited May 2011 in Square Enix
Now that Final Fantasy XIII is out in Japan, it's time a spoiler thread was posted as people play through it, watch other people play it, or whatever.

All spoiler-related discussion is welcome here. <span class="spoiler">Aerith dies at the end of Disc 1.</span>
"One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
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Comments

  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2009
    Quote: wrote:
    So what exactly are your major complaints and reasons for suggesting I should avoid the game? When certain characters die you don't care about them? (not necessarily a bad thing, I don't want to give a damn about every character death), The battle system is dumbed down? (I don't really care as long as I don't die), and I seem to remember you suggesting the story makes little sense.

    I'm curious because I would like to be clear about what makes the game so negative that I should cancel my preorder. Of course I also have the soundtrack on preorder from Japan on account of my love for Masashi Hamauzu and his orchestrator Yoshihisa Hirano, and the warsaw philharmonic that is performing a good portion of this score.

    The problem with Final Fantasy XIII's battle system is that it is not fun, period. Final Fantasy XIII IS NOT FUN like Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy VIII, or Final Fantasy X where you can set things up in your own way to deal out mega-damage. Final Fantasy XIII has almost no versatility to have your own play style like previous installments. You basically play the game the way Square-Enix thinks you are supposed to or you're dead and quick. Customizing your weapons in Final Fantasy XIII is in and of itself a giant chore (imagine washing dishes and then being told you need to wash the same ones a hundred more times even though they are clean...sound fun? That's how terrible Final Fantasy XIII's weapon upgrade system is...) Also, the Crystarium System is capped at certain points in the game so that it makes it really, really hard to kill even normal enemies. It really sucks to see someone with a fully maxed out grid plus a maxed out weapon get bludgeoned to death by a "normal" enemy...not a boss, but a normal enemy.

    If you don't like dying in RPGs then you will absolutely hate this one because you're going to die hundreds of times if you want to complete all the mini-quests and that's no joke. Not forgetting to mention that the mini-quests are basically limited to "go and kill monster X" and this gets monotonous really fast. I know Square-Enix mentioned that the game was the hardest Final Fantasy out there and they were right...but they forgot to mention that the people who were supposed to balance the difficulty did a real bang up job, if they even did their job at all.

    While there are some really great music tracks on the game, the not so good ones tend to get reused again and again, especially in the cut scenes...

    There are also a few towns in Final Fantasy XIII but you can forget about exploring anywhere because they are basically one linear path. There are no weapon, item, etc. shops either. All of your transactions are done at the save points (basically Square-Enix was too lazy to make the towns more believable). You can't talk to anyone in towns either. Pretty much all you do is walk by them and they start saying some voiced dialogue and the text appears in the lower left corner of the screen. Most NPCs have nothing but crap to say too... Also, there are not enough people in the world to make it believable. There's basically no government either but somehow there's a large military that blindly follows orders from a handful of people...

    Final Fantasy XII looks like a flawless diamond compared to Final Fantasy XIII in just about every aspect and I really dislike Final Fantasy XII so that is saying a lot. When you get to the lower world, "Gran Pulse" in chapter 11, the world opens up but it is still pretty linear where you can and can't go as well despite the playing field being rather large. At first sight, the graphics look beautiful but since it is a lot of repetitive textures, plants, etc., it starts to get boring to look at after a while. There are no fun mini-games either so it's just run around, fight enemies, or watch a movie scene again and again and AGAIN...

    If someone just wants to look at pretty graphics and movie scenes then Final Fantasy XIII might be a good choice for them but anyone who actually wants to "play a game" since games are meant to be played, should look elsewhere. Final Fantasy XIII is seriously like deja vu for Xenosaga - Episode I: The Will to Power in the way it sucked and had movie scene after movie scene and a crappy battle system...except Xenosaga managed to end up with at least a good ending where Final Fantasy XIII does not...



  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited December 2009
    So Xenosaga fans like myself should enjoy the hell out of it.

    Thanks for confirming that I'm going to love this game! laugh.gif
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2009
    So Xenosaga fans like myself should enjoy the hell out of it.

    Thanks for confirming that I'm going to love this game! laugh.gif
    Xenosaga II was great but the first and third games were terrible...especially the first one.
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited December 2009
    Xenosaga II is exactly the same as what you describe FFXIII as being, right down to the battles that can only be won in one specific way.
  • AaediyenAaediyen Member Full Members
    edited December 2009
    So this game has no towns, isnt that a deal breaker for anyone?
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited December 2009
    So this game has no towns, isnt that a deal breaker for anyone?
    Neither does Demon's Souls, hasn't hurt that one any.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited December 2009
    Add towns to the list of things that every RPG must have to be a good RPG, along with world maps and four character parties.



    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • ClixClix Listmaster Full Members
    edited December 2009
    Add towns to the list of things that every RPG must have to be a good RPG, along with world maps and four character parties.
    I've always been a fan of five, but that's just me. tounge2.gif

    I don't really care about shopping. However, I will admit some disappointment from the lack of "life." While only a fraction of the NPCs were interactive in FFXII, the major cities LOOKED LIKE CITIES. Each street was full of people living out their daily lives. I was expecting more of the same in FFXIII, especially in the greatest megalopolis of the series (or what should have been the greatest).
    ClixPsi.png
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited December 2009
    Add towns to the list of things that every RPG must have to be a good RPG, along with world maps and four character parties.
    I've always been a fan of five, but that's just me. tounge2.gif
    As far as I'm concerned, sky's the limit. I like to have as many people as humanly possible on the field. It's one of the reasons I got into strategy RPGs so hard laugh.gif
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2009
    Xenosaga II is exactly the same as what you describe FFXIII as being, right down to the battles that can only be won in one specific way.
    I think you'll understand what I mean by "no versatility" when you play Final Fantasy XIII. Xenosaga - Episode II: Beyond Good and Evil has a ton more versatility in what you can and can't do and still win a battle in comparison. You will understand soon enough what I mean by this. For example, you will almost undoubtedly lose trying to fight tough monsters if you don't use the Enhancer, Blaster, and Attacker combination. Then when the monsters break meter recovers you will need to use the Defender/Healer combination and then repeat the combination above for EVERY battle like this. In chapter 13 when it lets you go back to Gran Pulse or after you have finished the game and you have had the cap for Crystarium - Level 10 removed (both of which when your party is much stronger) you may be able to get away with using only a Blaster or Attacker combination but until then, you are seriously out of luck. It's no wonder there is such a fondness for the Materia System and the Junction System (if you learned how to use this one correctly) because there are so many ways to customize your characters. It's really unfortunate that Final Fantasy XIII never saw the light with this concept. Even allowing the characters to have up to three unlockable accessories (which you can't even have all unlocked until right up at the end of the game) still doesn't do a whole lot with customizability either.

    And one more thing, I hope everybody likes "grinding" because you can't finish the game by only killing the enemies on your way to the end of the game. You'll be doing a lot of this if you expect to finish Final Fantasy XIII.



  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited December 2009
    Golly, grinding? In a Final Fantasy game? What madness do you speak? They only made you do it in 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12!
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • ClixClix Listmaster Full Members
    edited December 2009
    ...You left out FFIV... You NEED to in the DS version to varying degrees.
    ClixPsi.png
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited December 2009
    I didn't grind in the DS version. I'm pretty amazing though.
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited December 2009
    Unless you're looking for Rainbow Pudding.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • ClixClix Listmaster Full Members
    edited December 2009
    Wait... got grind confused with ridiculous encounter rate during the long-Derri
    ClixPsi.png
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2009
    Golly, grinding? In a Final Fantasy game? What madness do you speak? They only made you do it in 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12!
    Actually, you didn't have to grind in Final Fantasy VIII at all if you understood the Junction System very well. In fact, I didn't do more than about an hour or two of grinding in most of the Final Fantasy games (with the exception of Final Fantasy XI because making players grind and adding little goodies here and there is how Square-Enix keeps gamers addicted to this one). Final Fantasy XIII is a whole new ball of wax, though. I suspect most gamers will have to grind a good 10+ hours just to be able to beat the game and that doesn't include the monsters you hunt in the side-quests. Some of those are much stronger and will require much more grinding to beat than that. At least there was "good" equipment and magic easily available in the older games to deal with some of the more nasty bosses and enemies. Unfortunately, Final Fantasy XIII is too uptight in that aspect. When people actually get their hands on a copy of this game stateside, I think that after they die enough times they will think something like, "If this wasn't a Final Fantasy, I wouldn't even bother finishing this piece of garbage."
  • flamethrowerflamethrower Member Full Members
    edited December 2009
    Golly, grinding? In a Final Fantasy game? What madness do you speak? They only made you do it in 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12!
    Exaggeration! And not true! At least some of the games don't make you grind.
    <1 hr of grinding in the entire game = no grinding in my opinion. You only need to grind for around 15 minutes in FF7 if you know what you're doing. Compare that with an hour or more for most of the others.
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2009
    Golly, grinding? In a Final Fantasy game? What madness do you speak? They only made you do it in 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12!
    Exaggeration! And not true! At least some of the games don't make you grind.
    <1 hr of grinding in the entire game = no grinding in my opinion. You only need to grind for around 15 minutes in FF7 if you know what you're doing. Compare that with an hour or more for most of the others.
    Agreed.


    On the flip-side of things, I am actually curious to see how the English version turns out considering how disjointed the Japanese version of the story is. I know Alexander O. Smith completely rewrote a bunch of sections to cover up these kinds of flaws in Final Fantasy XII but I don't remember seeing his name in the ending credits of Final Fantasy XIII as the English translator so I guess we'll have to see how this new translator does with the script. However, as it stands, I'm going to have to give the Japanese version of the script two thumbs down.
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited December 2009
    Golly, grinding? In a Final Fantasy game? What madness do you speak? They only made you do it in 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12!
    Exaggeration! And not true! At least some of the games don't make you grind.
    <1 hr of grinding in the entire game = no grinding in my opinion. You only need to grind for around 15 minutes in FF7 if you know what you're doing. Compare that with an hour or more for most of the others.
    I remember having to spend a lot of time grinding to get all of the skills and Limit Breaks in FF7, but its been awhile. In FFVIII, you definitely need to grind to get the maximum use out of the Junction System.

    In fact, I included all the games that required grinding for skill or ability points, though X's grind is definitely not as steep as others in the series. My point is, grinding in these games is extremely common, and complaining about grinding in an FF game is like...complaining that there are Chocobos in an FF game. Comes with the territory.



    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited December 2009
    More like comes with the genre.

    VII I know I had to grind for materia and a handful of limit breaks due to how the breaks are gained in that game (kills and usage of the previous limit). If I did any grinding in IX or VI it was for skills or spells. IV DS I've had to grind a little bit at various points although that's mitigated by the compulsion to 100% explore each dungeon.

    Then there's grinding AP in Chrono Trigger. Grinding levels in Earthbound (hello Frank and Magicant). Grinding levels in Dragon Warrior. Grinding in Front Mission. Should I continue?
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2010
    Golly, grinding? In a Final Fantasy game? What madness do you speak? They only made you do it in 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12!
    Exaggeration! And not true! At least some of the games don't make you grind.
    <1 hr of grinding in the entire game = no grinding in my opinion. You only need to grind for around 15 minutes in FF7 if you know what you're doing. Compare that with an hour or more for most of the others.
    I remember having to spend a lot of time grinding to get all of the skills and Limit Breaks in FF7, but its been awhile. In FFVIII, you definitely need to grind to get the maximum use out of the Junction System.

    In fact, I included all the games that required grinding for skill or ability points, though X's grind is definitely not as steep as others in the series. My point is, grinding in these games is extremely common, and complaining about grinding in an FF game is like...complaining that there are Chocobos in an FF game. Comes with the territory.
    Actually, you don't need to grind to get the maximum out of the Junction System. If you simply pass your seed exams, use hidden draw points, refine cards, etc. you won't have to grind at all in Final Fantasy VIII in order to beat the game. The trick on this game is to actually keep your levels low and pick up the slack by junctioning magic. However, most gamers never figured out how to go about doing this.

    I think most gamers' knowledge of Final Fantasy VIII is rather shallow due to mixed feelings over its setting and because it wasn't the "Materia System" which everyone had grown accustomed to from the previous game. In fact, most people I have met who played this game never even learned the ins and outs of the Junction System even though there is a huge tutorial at the beginning of the English version that isn't even in the original Japanese version...

    If you look at some of my past posts related to Final Fantasy VIII, there are some pointers which will help you so you don't have to grind at all. I actually finished Final Fantasy VIII in about a day and a half my first time playing it through because the way the game was set up felt so natural that it was so easy to move from place to place without being bogged down with things like looking for treasure chests, etc. Also, since you didn't need to grind saving up money for weapons, etc. because you receive a regular salary, the story just flew by. Personally, I think this is how developers need to make a game to keep people involved but it's really up to us as gamers to learn to utilize the system well.



  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited January 2010
    Actually, you don't need to grind to get the maximum out of the Junction System. If you simply pass your seed exams, use hidden draw points, refine cards, etc. you won't have to grind at all in Final Fantasy VIII in order to beat the game. The trick on this game is to actually keep your levels low and pick up the slack by junctioning magic. However, most gamers never figured out how to go about doing this.
    And how did you accomplish being able to refine cards into magic? You needed the Card Mod ability, plus you needed to learn the skills from each GF to get the magic you needed.

    On top of that, if you wanted to actually use the stat junctioning properly, you needed to have the GFs learn the abilities to give you as many stat slots as they had.

    All of this adds up to time spent grinding. I always take about an hour grinding fish on the beach right out the gate with Quistis and Squall to get Card Mod and the magic skills from Ifrit, Shiva, and Quetzalcotl.

    And let us not forget the necessity of the Enc-None skill on Diablos in order to safely grab the draw points on Heaven and Hell Island. Unless you like getting flattened by LV100 monsters while trying to find the hidden spells.
    Quote: wrote:
    I think most gamers' knowledge of Final Fantasy VIII is rather shallow due to mixed feelings over its setting and because it wasn't the "Materia System" which everyone had grown accustomed to from the previous game. In fact, most people I have met who played this game never even learned the ins and outs of the Junction System even though there is a huge tutorial at the beginning of the English version that isn't even in the original Japanese version...

    MegaLink. It's ME. I love Final Fantasy VIII. I know exactly how this game works. You have to grind to get your GF skills. There is no magic "Get all the AP in five seconds" trick.
    Quote: wrote:
    If you look at some of my past posts related to Final Fantasy VIII, there are some pointers which will help you so you don't have to grind at all. I actually finished Final Fantasy VIII in about a day and a half my first time playing it through because the way the game was set up felt so natural that it was so easy to move from place to place without being bogged down with things like looking for treasure chests, etc. Also, since you didn't need to grind saving up money for weapons, etc. because you receive a regular salary, the story just flew by. Personally, I think this is how developers need to make a game to keep people involved but it's really up to us as gamers to learn to utilize the system well.

    You still have to grind for AP to get GF skills. There's no way around it. I've played the game enough times to be aware of that. Later in the game it gets easier because of higher AP enemies, but that's about it. Any time you spend simply killing monsters to get AP is time spent grinding.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2010
    Actually, you don't need to grind to get the maximum out of the Junction System. If you simply pass your seed exams, use hidden draw points, refine cards, etc. you won't have to grind at all in Final Fantasy VIII in order to beat the game. The trick on this game is to actually keep your levels low and pick up the slack by junctioning magic. However, most gamers never figured out how to go about doing this.
    And how did you accomplish being able to refine cards into magic? You needed the Card Mod ability, plus you needed to learn the skills from each GF to get the magic you needed.

    On top of that, if you wanted to actually use the stat junctioning properly, you needed to have the GFs learn the abilities to give you as many stat slots as they had.

    All of this adds up to time spent grinding. I always take about an hour grinding fish on the beach right out the gate with Quistis and Squall to get Card Mod and the magic skills from Ifrit, Shiva, and Quetzalcotl.

    And let us not forget the necessity of the Enc-None skill on Diablos in order to safely grab the draw points on Heaven and Hell Island. Unless you like getting flattened by LV100 monsters while trying to find the hidden spells.
    Quote: wrote:
    I think most gamers' knowledge of Final Fantasy VIII is rather shallow due to mixed feelings over its setting and because it wasn't the "Materia System" which everyone had grown accustomed to from the previous game. In fact, most people I have met who played this game never even learned the ins and outs of the Junction System even though there is a huge tutorial at the beginning of the English version that isn't even in the original Japanese version...

    MegaLink. It's ME. I love Final Fantasy VIII. I know exactly how this game works. You have to grind to get your GF skills. There is no magic "Get all the AP in five seconds" trick.
    Quote: wrote:
    If you look at some of my past posts related to Final Fantasy VIII, there are some pointers which will help you so you don't have to grind at all. I actually finished Final Fantasy VIII in about a day and a half my first time playing it through because the way the game was set up felt so natural that it was so easy to move from place to place without being bogged down with things like looking for treasure chests, etc. Also, since you didn't need to grind saving up money for weapons, etc. because you receive a regular salary, the story just flew by. Personally, I think this is how developers need to make a game to keep people involved but it's really up to us as gamers to learn to utilize the system well.

    You still have to grind for AP to get GF skills. There's no way around it. I've played the game enough times to be aware of that. Later in the game it gets easier because of higher AP enemies, but that's about it. Any time you spend simply killing monsters to get AP is time spent grinding.
    Once again, you DON'T need to grind to beat the game. We're not talking about going on a mission to get 100 of every item or max out every stat. We're talking about whether or not you can beat the game without grinding and you CAN. It's not rocket science.

    The biggest trick in the game is to junction magic to keep Squall's H.P. max high and maintain low health so he can use his "Renzokuken" ability every single turn and you can blaze through the enemies and bosses. If he dies, no problem either because you can just use a Phoenix Down and he will be ready to go again with another "Renzokuken" because his HP is still low. You can also set the Battle Speed to 100% to decrease the amount of time you spend between turns in each battle too. You can easily purchase Phoenix Down again and again to replace the ones you lose if your salary is high enough.

    Also, if you pick up the draw points, hidden draw points, refine your items into magic, etc. you will never be at a loss for magic. And as long as you make sure you keep the GFs you picked up equipped all the time so they are constantly gaining AP, it's pretty much a straight shot through the game. You can also get some valuable items like the Bahamut card which refines into 100 Last Elixirs so you don't have to worry about dealing with the bosses later on when it comes to healing your party members quickly.

    You can even steal or win a Hero's Medicine from Seifer and Fujin in the battles which can be used to make one of your party members invincible so when you are fighting Griever and he hits you with the Shockwave Pulsar attack, nothing will happen to the party member with the invincible effect on them.

    Also, during the last battle, you can cast Haste, and while leaving everyone with 1 H.P., barrage the last boss with limit breaks. It's really as simple as that.

    Final Fantasy VIII is set up to scale to to your character's low levels. If your characters have low levels, the enemies and bosses will have significantly less H.P. and lower stats as well so you can pick up the hidden draw points or refine powerful magic, etc. to beef up your party well beyond what you're up against. That is the beauty of this game. I don't know any other RPG that allows you to do this as simply and easily as Final Fantasy VIII. If you can't finish Final Fantasy VIII without grinding then you need to get rid of the "typical RPG gamer mentality" and start paying more attention to the figures and how you are playing the game. Most of my friends when I sat down with them for a couple hours and showed them what they were doing wrong and why were having such a hard time with the game were surprised at how limited their view of the game was because they had been playing "dumbed down" RPGs for too long where developers think you can't handle that many choices.



  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited January 2010
    MegaLink, how are you refining items into magic without doing any grinding?

    I am serious. You can't do it without learning those GF skills. Your method sounds like you're putting off GF skills for quite some time if you're not taking time out to learn them early, in which case you miss a lot of the benefits of those skills in the first place. But you're either forgoing some extremely useful abilities to cut grinding time, or not taking into account that yes, you do have to grind for those.

    Of course, this is diverting from the actual topic of the thread, which is Final Fantasy XIII, about five games into the future.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • Sam = WiseSam = Wise Member Full Members
    edited January 2010
    Kay, this is about Final Fantasy XIII, not a FFVIII pride thread.

    Back on subject, approximately how many weapons are there for each character?
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2010
    MegaLink, how are you refining items into magic without doing any grinding?

    I am serious. You can't do it without learning those GF skills. Your method sounds like you're putting off GF skills for quite some time if you're not taking time out to learn them early, in which case you miss a lot of the benefits of those skills in the first place. But you're either forgoing some extremely useful abilities to cut grinding time, or not taking into account that yes, you do have to grind for those.

    Of course, this is diverting from the actual topic of the thread, which is Final Fantasy XIII, about five games into the future.
    You are right, Rebochan. I actually don't worry about learning a lot of the GF skills early on because they are not necessary for progression in the game and really don't have a huge impact until I am farther along in the game when I start picking up items which are really useful to refine. It's also true that I miss a lot of the benefits I would have had received from grinding but that's like any game where if I would have made sure to get my hands on every powerful weapon and armor it would have made it a ton easier. Most Final Fantasy games have an outrageous drop rate for awesome items so I usually don't bother with them since I never know when they'll actually show up anyway. I really just like the fact that I am not limited to having a certain level to progress in Final Fantasy VIII.


    As for Final Fantasy XIII, there actually doesn't appear to be a huge arsenal of weapons since you are forced to spend so much time upgrading them. I am pretty sure that there are probably not more than about 10 weapons available for each character.



  • TiptailTiptail Member Full Members
    edited January 2010
    Xenosaga II is exactly the same as what you describe FFXIII as being, right down to the battles that can only be won in one specific way.
    I think you'll understand what I mean by "no versatility" when you play Final Fantasy XIII. Xenosaga - Episode II: Beyond Good and Evil has a ton more versatility in what you can and can't do and still win a battle in comparison. You will understand soon enough what I mean by this. For example, you will almost undoubtedly lose trying to fight tough monsters if you don't use the Enhancer, Blaster, and Attacker combination. Then when the monsters break meter recovers you will need to use the Defender/Healer combination and then repeat the combination above for EVERY battle like this. In chapter 13 when it lets you go back to Gran Pulse or after you have finished the game and you have had the cap for Crystarium - Level 10 removed (both of which when your party is much stronger) you may be able to get away with using only a Blaster or Attacker combination but until then, you are seriously out of luck. It's no wonder there is such a fondness for the Materia System and the Junction System (if you learned how to use this one correctly) because there are so many ways to customize your characters. It's really unfortunate that Final Fantasy XIII never saw the light with this concept. Even allowing the characters to have up to three unlockable accessories (which you can't even have all unlocked until right up at the end of the game) still doesn't do a whole lot with customizability either.

    And one more thing, I hope everybody likes "grinding" because you can't finish the game by only killing the enemies on your way to the end of the game. You'll be doing a lot of this if you expect to finish Final Fantasy XIII.
    This isn't true. I'm sorry, but just because you're having trouble doesn't mean the game forces you to use specific Optima configurations or whathaveyou.

    I never needed to use Defender, and in fact never used anyone who specialized in Defender unless the story made it necessary. It's not that I'm not into Defender--I can see how it's useful--but I preferred to not use Snow or Fang, in favour of my excellent Lightning-Sazh-Vanille configuration. I've never used Enhancer-Blaster-Attacker, either, and using it while the enemy is in break just seems silly. Why would you have somebody buffing when you've got the opportunity to triple or quadruple (or more?) your damage?

    Defender is great, but the only fight I consider it absolutely necessary in is the Jumbo Cactuar fight, when you're getting spammed with 10,000 needles every turn and only the Defender bonus will cut that damage. <span class="spoiler">No, I didn't even use it when Orphan blasts you Kefka-style down to within an inch of your life.</span>

    If you don't think that Optimas with only Blasters and Attackers are viable until after you unlock the whole Lv. 10 Crystarium, I don't think you've quite got the hang of how the battle system is supposed to work. Optimas are designed to be switched as often as humanly possible. You can eliminate waiting for your ATB bar to fill by timing your Optima switches correctly. Buffs are especially excellent in this game, but only bust them out when necessary. I've noticed (to my actual pleasure) that a defensive strategy in this game is sometimes a one-way ticket to a Game Over screen. Sometimes it's in your better interest, rather than putzing around buffing or healing, is to just go balls-to-the-wall and take out one or two of your enemies (sources of damage) very quickly.

    Here's how a typical medium-difficult fight would go with my Lightning-Sazh-Vanille party:
    1.Start on Blaster-Attacker-Blaster to get one enemy's bar partially or completely filled (and secured because Attacker hits cause it to decrease more slowly).

    2. Are you getting badly hurt now?
    Yes - Switch to either Attacker-Enhancer-Healer or Blaster-Attacker-Healer, depending on if buffs are needed or useful.

    No - Just as the last attack in the ATB bar empties, switch to Attacker-Attacker-Blaster if the enemy is broken, or Blaster-Blaster-Blaster if it isn't.

    3. Is the enemy still not broken, is weak against De-Shell or De-protect, and are you hurt?
    Yes - Switch Vanille to Jammer duty with Healer-Enhancer-Jammer.

    No - Do something above. Summon your Eidolon if you're getting massacred. Win eventually if you're paying attention and not sticking with one Optima for too long.


    I've never needed to grind, either. Before proceeding to Chapter 12, I did enough missions to get Chocobos rideable and that's it (hardly a CP boost), and in Chapters 12 and 13, in the interests of speed, I actually avoided as many enemies as possible. Sure, you die in the final dungeon and prior to that. You die throughout the whole game because the battles are fast and if you aren't paying attention things can go out of your favour. But everything is winnable without grinding. Get used to dying a bit and mix up things if they aren't working. Change Optimas more often. Try a different party. I find the battles to be incredibly versatile, and it's a testament to that that everyone I've spoken with has a different strategy or party.
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2010
    Xenosaga II is exactly the same as what you describe FFXIII as being, right down to the battles that can only be won in one specific way.
    I think you'll understand what I mean by "no versatility" when you play Final Fantasy XIII. Xenosaga - Episode II: Beyond Good and Evil has a ton more versatility in what you can and can't do and still win a battle in comparison. You will understand soon enough what I mean by this. For example, you will almost undoubtedly lose trying to fight tough monsters if you don't use the Enhancer, Blaster, and Attacker combination. Then when the monsters break meter recovers you will need to use the Defender/Healer combination and then repeat the combination above for EVERY battle like this. In chapter 13 when it lets you go back to Gran Pulse or after you have finished the game and you have had the cap for Crystarium - Level 10 removed (both of which when your party is much stronger) you may be able to get away with using only a Blaster or Attacker combination but until then, you are seriously out of luck. It's no wonder there is such a fondness for the Materia System and the Junction System (if you learned how to use this one correctly) because there are so many ways to customize your characters. It's really unfortunate that Final Fantasy XIII never saw the light with this concept. Even allowing the characters to have up to three unlockable accessories (which you can't even have all unlocked until right up at the end of the game) still doesn't do a whole lot with customizability either.

    And one more thing, I hope everybody likes "grinding" because you can't finish the game by only killing the enemies on your way to the end of the game. You'll be doing a lot of this if you expect to finish Final Fantasy XIII.
    This isn't true. I'm sorry, but just because you're having trouble doesn't mean the game forces you to use specific Optima configurations or whathaveyou.

    I never needed to use Defender, and in fact never used anyone who specialized in Defender unless the story made it necessary. It's not that I'm not into Defender--I can see how it's useful--but I preferred to not use Snow or Fang, in favour of my excellent Lightning-Sazh-Vanille configuration. I've never used Enhancer-Blaster-Attacker, either, and using it while the enemy is in break just seems silly. Why would you have somebody buffing when you've got the opportunity to triple or quadruple (or more?) your damage?

    Defender is great, but the only fight I consider it absolutely necessary in is the Jumbo Cactuar fight, when you're getting spammed with 10,000 needles every turn and only the Defender bonus will cut that damage. <span class="spoiler">No, I didn't even use it when Orphan blasts you Kefka-style down to within an inch of your life.</span>

    If you don't think that Optimas with only Blasters and Attackers are viable until after you unlock the whole Lv. 10 Crystarium, I don't think you've quite got the hang of how the battle system is supposed to work. Optimas are designed to be switched as often as humanly possible. You can eliminate waiting for your ATB bar to fill by timing your Optima switches correctly. Buffs are especially excellent in this game, but only bust them out when necessary. I've noticed (to my actual pleasure) that a defensive strategy in this game is sometimes a one-way ticket to a Game Over screen. Sometimes it's in your better interest, rather than putzing around buffing or healing, is to just go balls-to-the-wall and take out one or two of your enemies (sources of damage) very quickly.

    Here's how a typical medium-difficult fight would go with my Lightning-Sazh-Vanille party:
    1.Start on Blaster-Attacker-Blaster to get one enemy's bar partially or completely filled (and secured because Attacker hits cause it to decrease more slowly).

    2. Are you getting badly hurt now?
    Yes - Switch to either Attacker-Enhancer-Healer or Blaster-Attacker-Healer, depending on if buffs are needed or useful.

    No - Just as the last attack in the ATB bar empties, switch to Attacker-Attacker-Blaster if the enemy is broken, or Blaster-Blaster-Blaster if it isn't.

    3. Is the enemy still not broken, is weak against De-Shell or De-protect, and are you hurt?
    Yes - Switch Vanille to Jammer duty with Healer-Enhancer-Jammer.

    No - Do something above. Summon your Eidolon if you're getting massacred. Win eventually if you're paying attention and not sticking with one Optima for too long.


    I've never needed to grind, either. Before proceeding to Chapter 12, I did enough missions to get Chocobos rideable and that's it (hardly a CP boost), and in Chapters 12 and 13, in the interests of speed, I actually avoided as many enemies as possible. Sure, you die in the final dungeon and prior to that. You die throughout the whole game because the battles are fast and if you aren't paying attention things can go out of your favour. But everything is winnable without grinding. Get used to dying a bit and mix up things if they aren't working. Change Optimas more often. Try a different party. I find the battles to be incredibly versatile, and it's a testament to that that everyone I've spoken with has a different strategy or party.
    I don't think you read my post correctly. I meant that you use an Optima with a combination of Enhancers to boost your stats, then switch your Optima to one with Blasters to break the enemies' defenses, and switch your Optima once again to one with Attackers to deal out a ton of damage (and that's why I had a comma separating these). Then if you are low on health, you switch your Optima to a Defender/Healer combination to start healing yourself again (and that's why I had a slash between these to indicate that these were together). You have almost reiterated exactly what I said about switching the Optimas. Trust me, I had the break meter maxed out on 999.9% about 50 percent of the big battles I played and without doing the above combination, you can't fill the break meter like that and take down the tough enemies and bosses in one to a few turnovers of the break meter. When you've got the break meter maxed out you can deal out 99999 damage each attack with an Attacker if you have a few upgraded accessories and a maxed out weapon in place.

    And what part of the missions are not grinding if I might ask? That's exactly what they are because they are NOT necessary to progression in the game and all the enemies that you run around killing on your way back and forth to and from the missions is what is called grinding. How about you try not doing any of the missions, which means that you don't get any of the special items that you would normally receive from them to upgrade your weapons and accessories and also forfeit all that CP and then just try and make a straight run through the game. I'm sorry to say this but it isn't happening. Final Fantasy XIII is really difficult and it has nothing to do with the fact that you aren't paying attention many times. It has everything to do with the fact that the enemies or bosses can kill you off because they simply can take off more H.P. then you have or whittle down your H.P. faster than you can heal it.

    If you don't want to admit this is the case then how about you go fight one of those giant dinosaurs with the tusks (the ones which are walking in the river on the trailer) using a save file when you've barely reached Gran Pulse and upload it to Youtube. I guarantee with one or two stomps on the ground you'll be dead regardless of how quickly or how many times you switch your Optimas. You can even go try this with a King Behemoth too and I'm sorry but you're not going to win that fight either. You're going to need to do some serious grinding to beat these and these are just regular enemies, not bosses. No offense intended, but when you say, "<span style="text-decoration:underline">But everything is winnable without grinding,</span>" that is an outright lie and you know that's the case as well as anyone who has played through Final Fantasy XIII or spent considerable time playing it.



  • RageRage Transcends lowly masses Full Members
    edited January 2010
    No offense intended, but when you say, "<span style="text-decoration:underline">But everything is winnable without grinding,</span>" that is an outright lie and you know that's the case as well as anyone who has played through Final Fantasy XIII or spent considerable time playing it.
    You know she beat the game, right? (Review yayz)

    I've had the priviledge of, well, living with the girl and being here for her whole play experience, and through it all, she mentioned to me more than once about how she thought it was great that she could get by without grinding.

    *Shrug*

    If you haven't found a way to do it without grinding, that's fine, but just admit that. No need to call someone else a liar. I like lots of games that I'm not very good at. Doesn't hurt me to say so, it's jus tthe way things are. I'm not gonna call someone else a liar if they can beat a hard game faster than I can. laugh.gif
  • ClixClix Listmaster Full Members
    edited January 2010
    Oh, so it's possible to get through FFXIII if you know what you are doing.

    MegaLink, replace the "X" with a "V."
    ClixPsi.png
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