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Ys Seven - Impression

MacstormMacstorm Ysy St.Administrators
edited August 2010 in Latest Updates
Ready to try out the first fruit fresh from the Falcom and XSEED friendship? Ys Seven comes as an easy starting recommendation.

Ys Seven Impression

Mac does what Sabin don't!
"The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
Twitter @FinalMacstorm

Comments

  • Confessor RahlConfessor Rahl Member Full Members
    edited July 2010
    The first time around the screens didn't do anything for me, but these look nice, particularly the fire cave.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    www.powerlinemag.com

    "I remember back when FF9 was coming out. People were rejoicing because it was actually a fantasy game and not a sci-fi game like 7 and 8. It's especially hilarious given modern context, with everyone wanking themselves to dehydration at the thought of an FF7 remake." - Masterchief
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited July 2010
    It doesn't look bad at all. The combat is what's really sold me here, but I imagine I've said that enough already, eh?
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • PawsPaws Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited July 2010
    I really quite liked Napishtim, and I'm definitely keeping my eye on this one.

    Also, love the title change Mac. I just about choked on my Dr. Pepper.
  • MonCapitan2002MonCapitan2002 Avatar Captured Full Members
    edited July 2010
    I am so looking forward to this game. I already pre-ordered the game, but then again, I am an enthusiastic fan of this series.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Please help my city grow. Estharopolis - Population | Industry | Transportation | Security | Environment | Business
  • SlayerSlayer Member Full Members
    edited July 2010
    I really want to play this one but it probably won't happen :(
  • TiaelTiael Member Full Members
    edited July 2010
    Agh, can't wait.

    I still need to go pre-order the Collector's Edition soon, like yesterday.
    image
  • ZerkerZerker Member Full Members
    edited July 2010
    Minor correction to the impression: Napishtim for PSP and PS2 was *ported* by Konami; the original PC development was still Falcom on that one. Contrast with Ys 4 which was not developed by Falcom in any rendition ;)

    Other than that minor nipick, it is a fine impression. I am looking forward to this one greatly. I am still torn if I want to get the PSP version of Oath in Felghana (having already purchased an import of the PC version), but I think I probably will to support XSeed.
  • demonsoulsmasterdemonsoulsmaster Banned Banned Users
    edited August 2010
    Sorry, but not feeling the love to buy this one given the text looks really bland from all the screenshots I've seen so far, like junior high school bland. Maybe I would have liked this one 10 years ago or something, but now that I'm in college, it looks like Falcom hasn't grown up with its market which I would guess is older than me anyway. Also, funky gimmicks like replacing an NPC's name with some random gamer's full name just looks awkward in an Ys world to say the least, and for the most part indicates to me that these extra characters aren't really important for the game so it doesn't matter if they get treated like crap. Anyway, since I've already played Felghana and Origin which had some serious balancing issues, I think I'll wait till it shows up used somewhere. Anyway, anybody mind telling me what the hell is going on with XSEED having the text cut halfway off the screen? They did that in Lunar and now Ys 7?!
    FFXIII doesn\'t have deep mechanics (the lauded \"Paradigm Shift\" is just a set of six different Gambits that you can\'t alter), and the \"story\" degenerates into two trainwrecks piled on top of each other.
    -Jeffrey
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited August 2010
    So you're complaining about throwaway NPC dialogue and text placement?
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited August 2010
    Great write up. Definately got me interested in this!
  • demonsoulsmasterdemonsoulsmaster Banned Banned Users
    edited August 2010
    Macstorm said:
    So you're complaining about throwaway NPC dialogue and text placement?
    Yep, as far as I'm concerned there should be no "throwaway dialogue" or why write it in the first place? Might as well just give the NPCs no dialogue at all if its just going to get thrown away when it goes stateside. Or maybe, Falcom is admitting to having terrible scenario writers so they're all like, "Go ahead XSEED, throw away all our crappy dialogue and write whatever the hell you want in there." Not likely, I suppose. Anyway, from the stuff I've read in the screenshots released so far, I'm just not feeling the humor or impressed either by the dialogue. It's like Arc Rise Fantasia without the voice. But yeah, mind asking XSEED what's up with the crappy text placement job, too? That really, really irked me on Lunar, more so in fact, than the loading times.
    FFXIII doesn\'t have deep mechanics (the lauded \"Paradigm Shift\" is just a set of six different Gambits that you can\'t alter), and the \"story\" degenerates into two trainwrecks piled on top of each other.
    -Jeffrey
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited August 2010
    I dunno, DSMaster. I mean, most RPGs I play have some throw away dialogue; some more than others. None of us are super excited about that, of course, but it's pretty much a given. Why do they do it? Who knows? To pad the game length....to give the NPCs something to say and make the world seem more lively even if what they have to say isn't very interesting? Beat's me. But, if the gameplay is good, why would it matter that much? Yeah, sure, I would always prefer decent scripting over throwaway, but I would never dismiss an RPG over the dialogue of its NPCs alone.
  • MinneyarMinneyar Member Full Members
    edited August 2010
    demonsoulsmaster said:
    But yeah, mind asking XSEED what's up with the crappy text placement job, too? That really, really irked me on Lunar, more so in fact, than the loading times.
    While overall I completely disagree with you -- especially with regards to Felghana and Origins' balance, and I suspect you mean they were too hard for you rather than they were unbalanced -- you've got a valid point here.

    I think what you're really complaining about is the fact that they're using a fixed-width font for dialog and the text seems to wrap at arbitrary points in the line rather than at the edge of the window. This is fairly common in Japanese works, since the written language itself uses fixed-width characters, and the lack of spaces between wordsmeans that frequently it's more readable to wrap lines at the end of a phrase rather than when the text hits the edge of the window. On the other hand, using those same conventions slows down native English-readers and makes them feel much less comfortable when reading the text, since written English usually uses a variable-width font and lines are wrapped between words at window boundaries.

    It's a serious issue in Japanese-to-English translations; I can't hold it against XSEED too much because I know they're a small company. Depending on how the game was originally programmed, they might have to completely rewrite the font rendering algorithms to get them to display properly, and that can range from being very hard to nearly impossible depending on how much access they have to the game's source code. It's easy for a massive company that has teams of programmers to do their own translations internally (like Square-Enix), but not so much for a small publisher working on a licensed game.

    I do wish they'd at least make the text wrap at the end of the window rather than right in the middle of a line.
  • nunuununuu Member Full Members
    edited August 2010
    I'm actually disappointed that they left the font as is like that which is most likely just the "Japanese font" using English characters. I've whined about it since day one, after seeing the preliminary translated screens posted by XSEED (as well as the game's cover and the hideous yellow for the title but that's another story) but I do believe Minneyar is probably correct in why XSEED didn't replace the font face. :/ Oh well, maybe when they start raking in money they can afford to do changes to more pleasing fonts in future games. XD

    I don't quite understand the hatred toward the dialogue fluff in Ys SEVEN. I mean, pointless dialogue has been in RPGs since the beginning of time, I think. And I prefer liberal translations over strict, direct-to-English stuff as the former reads more naturally but maybe not to the extent of throwing in Western pop culture references like what Working Designs used to do.

    I also don't think Falcom dialogue is superb to begin with so the translators had to do what they could to spice them up, so to speak. [Yoinked out irrelevant hearsay unrelated to XSEED & Ys SEVEN. Need more coffee ...]

    And for what it's worth, the NPCs that have names are quest-givers so they what they say DO have a point. >_>

    As for balance issues in SEVEN ... Well, other than early boss battles being boring and easy under Normal difficulty, it's quite fun and offers some interesting challenges later in the game but nothing overly difficult or easy. Boss battles on Hard are much more fun though. But hey, that's just my opinion.
  • AirikAirik Member Full Members
    edited August 2010
    This thread is the perfect example of how gamers will complain about anything.

    I can't wait for this, it's looking great. I've had my Special-Edition on pre-order since it was first available.
  • demonsoulsmasterdemonsoulsmaster Banned Banned Users
    edited August 2010
    Airik said:
    This thread is the perfect example of how gamers will complain about anything.

    I can't wait for this, it's looking great. I've had my Special-Edition on pre-order since it was first available.
    I haven't heard anybody complaining about the hot girls holding up the cloth map on the Ys 7 facebook page...except for maybe the fact that they weren't part of the LE. But let me just say this, when you're asking a customer to pay $50 for a game, and also asking us to invest our time in that game as well, you'd better give us something really damn good to read if it's an RPG. And frankly, I'm just not seeing that in the text in the screenshots.

    Nunuu, I totally agree with you about the font. What is that? Half-width English characters from one of the most plain fonts ever? And man, if that story has any truth to it about the translator being sucky and then everybody's just passing the ball around trying to make the text look better to meet a deadline, then maybe somebody should stand up and say "screw the deadline" until they get it right. When I see the dialogue in something like Mass Effect, I often think to myself, "Wow! This is pretty damn good stuff and it matters!" Now if somebody's not going to step up to the plate and do a decent job with this kind of stuff then maybe they shouldn't be working in the game industry and go get a job flipping burgers at McDonald's.

    And Minneyar, when I say crappy balancing in Ys games, I'm not talking about the games being too hard, considering that me and my buddies have finished everyone we've played. I'm talking about the way you net tiny amounts of experience at certain very inconvenient points littered all throughout the games so that when you're stuck in a place like under the castle in Felghana and you need to level up, it takes forever and so its like a giant cogwheel thrown into the flow of the game and it just wastes time...lots of time...and that's not cool. Also, when you're on the max level with the best equipment in Ys I and the last boss can kill you in just a few hits, that's absurd, because that means that it's almost impossible to beat the game without being on the max level...which once again means: more wasted time.

    I'll say it again, "games are supposed to be fun" and when companies like Falcom force us to grind at the bit for hours just to move on, it's no wonder that none of their titles are million sellers when they are released, and I'm not talking about every remake of a title combined that they've whored out a million times to gouge fans out of more money. Seriously, how many times has Ys I&II been released?
    FFXIII doesn\'t have deep mechanics (the lauded \"Paradigm Shift\" is just a set of six different Gambits that you can\'t alter), and the \"story\" degenerates into two trainwrecks piled on top of each other.
    -Jeffrey
  • MinneyarMinneyar Member Full Members
    edited August 2010
    demonsoulsmaster said:
    everybody's just passing the ball around trying to make the text look better to meet a deadline, then maybe somebody should stand up and say "screw the deadline" until they get it right.
    Are you going to pay them? Standing up and saying "screw the deadline" sounds romantic and all, but somebody has to pay the bills, and a smaller company is going to run out of money pretty quickly if they can't get games out the door. Font issues are definitely a spot that could be polished, but they're also one of the easiest, most effective corners to cut if you need to save money.
    And Minneyar, when I say crappy balancing in Ys games, I'm not talking about the games being too hard, considering that me and my buddies have finished everyone we've played. I'm talking about the way you net tiny amounts of experience at certain very inconvenient points littered all throughout the games so that when you're stuck in a place like under the castle in Felghana and you need to level up, it takes forever and so its like a giant cogwheel thrown into the flow of the game and it just wastes time...lots of time...and that's not cool. Also, when you're on the max level with the best equipment in Ys I and the last boss can kill you in just a few hits, that's absurd, because that means that it's almost impossible to beat the game without being on the max level...which once again means: more wasted time.
    The Ys games are typically very carefully balanced so that if you reach a point where you're only getting tiny amounts of experience, that means you're high enough level for that area and should move on. You can continue to grind if you really need to, but the games are intended to be challenging. Grinding for more than a couple of minutes is never necessary in Felghana or Origins... and in most versions of Ys I that I've played, it's easy to reach the maximum level before you even enter Darm Tower, let alone get to the last boss. If you're not max level by the end, that means you've been avoiding lots and lots of enemies. Again, this sounds like a lot of "these games are too hard and I feel the need to incessantly grind to make them easy." Try playing on a lower difficulty level instead.
  • flamethrowerflamethrower Member Full Members
    edited August 2010
    I think DSM is trying to review the game without having played it.
    The reviewer is deciding "Is this game fun?" This is reflected in that "overall" score you see in reviews (how fun they thought it was).
    Our impressionist played it; thought it was fun. That's good enough for me.

    I had a problem with the difficulty/progression because I suck at bosses. It's possible to defeat every boss in Felghana without getting hit. For most, I think you can see the feat on Youtube.
  • nunuununuu Member Full Members
    edited August 2010
    demonsoulsmaster said:
    And man, if that story has any truth to it about the translator being sucky and then everybody's just passing the ball around trying to make the text look better to meet a deadline, then maybe somebody should stand up and say "screw the deadline" until they get it right. When I see the dialogue in something like Mass Effect, I often think to myself, "Wow! This is pretty damn good stuff and it matters!" Now if somebody's not going to step up to the plate and do a decent job with this kind of stuff then maybe they shouldn't be working in the game industry and go get a job flipping burgers at McDonald's.
    Eheh. My bad. ^^;;; I was talking about ANOTHER game/situation + company. Not Ys SEVEN. -_________-;;;;; This is what I get for posting early in the morning plus whining about Bamco and Tales elsewhere at the same time. 9______9~

    Also ... (See? I need caffeine)
    demonsoulsmaster said:
    I'll say it again, "games are supposed to be fun" and when companies like Falcom force us to grind at the bit for hours just to move on, it's no wonder that none of their titles are million sellers when they are released, and I'm not talking about every remake of a title combined that they've whored out a million times to gouge fans out of more money. Seriously, how many times has Ys I&II been released?
    Uh, I've never recall ever really needing to grind much in Ys games. Most of them can be finished under, what, 12 hours? Might be more for Origin due to the 3 character storylines.

    The only game where I did some super grinding was in Ys II Eternal because I missed a sword that would have GREATLY helped in the Zava battle. XD The grinding was painful too since I made myself level up like 4 or 5 times before attempting the fight again but yeah, that was all me and my stupidity. ^^ (Damn subterranean canal.)

    Buuuuut there may have been some occasions where I tried a boss and *felt* that I did crap damage to it so I would reload and level up once or twice. However, I generally blame this on my lack of skill since from reading what others write about certain fights as well as gameplay videos, I realize that I'm typically OVERLEVELLED for the boss. XD

    Honestly though, I think the only time that anyone would REALLY feel the pain is grinding for the optional boss in Napishtim.
  • pcaballepcaballe Member Full Members
    edited August 2010
    I want a PSP now...I love action RPGs and just finished Nier....now I'm looking forward to this and Birth By Sleep.
    “Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.”
    -Einstein
  • demonsoulsmasterdemonsoulsmaster Banned Banned Users
    edited August 2010
    flamethrower said:
    I think DSM is trying to review the game without having played it.
    The reviewer is deciding "Is this game fun?" This is reflected in that "overall" score you see in reviews (how fun they thought it was).
    Our impressionist played it; thought it was fun. That's good enough for me.

    I had a problem with the difficulty/progression because I suck at bosses. It's possible to defeat every boss in Felghana without getting hit. For most, I think you can see the feat on Youtube.

    I'd be more than willing to play Ys 7 if you want to have your impressionist lend me his copy he got for free. Sorry, I've played enough Ys games to know that Falcom isn't going to deviate too much from the Ys formula. And yeah, with the exception of multiple characters you can switch and full 3D, it's still an Ys game at the core. I also know it's a little easier to be upbeat in an impression or review when you didn't fork out 50 to 60 bones for something like the average gamer either. I think a lot of gamers now a days scrutinize their purchases much more than the reviewers because most of the reviewers only play a few hours of the game and do a write up which is just bull crap. Not to mention, I haven't read any particularly "glowing" reviews from anybody who imported the game and finished it either. I would be more willing to purchase this game on day one if the story looked good, but let's be honest, it doesn't from the screenshots and trailers, and the crappy 3D models Falcom tries to hide away beneath nice hand-drawn facial graphics really reinforce the idea of the game being low quality. Look at a trailer for something like Mass Effect and the dialogue screams quality. Look at a trailer for Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep and you'll see smooth, high-quality 3D models. Not to mention both of these games have got great gameplay. Falcom has been around since what, 1983? I think it's time they stepped up and started making something great instead of just niche titles that they can trick everyone into buying with nice artwork and flashy animated opening scenes with characters that just stand still and aren't actually animated with the exception of something like blinking eyes.

    You can also claim that it's possible to get by without getting hit on every boss in Felghana which I'll believe it when I see it, and I'll even ask you to prove your claim, but that's 100% not going to be the case with the average gamer, especially those who play RPGs most of the time because they are going to get their clock cleaned...and then forced back into their pitiful corner where they're going to have to grind some more.

    And for Minneyar, it's really disingenuous to tell gamers that they can get by with only a few minutes of grinding in Felghana and Origins because that's absolutely false. I've picked up and played these games more than a few times so I'm no novice to them. I've got a few acquaintances who are like Falcom-club central and even they complain about the grinding aspect. Something also tells me that Ys 7 is going to make gamers grind too. The reason being, Ys games in general have very limited equipment, and if you ran around, backtracked (which there's tons of to add to the game time), and so on to pick it all up, it wouldn't take more than a few hours, therefore, the rest of the time is mostly padded with grinding. Ys games have never had much of a story to begin with considering Adol doesn't talk at all so where is most of your time being spent...grinding. Although, I will admit that we got more story in Origins because Yunica, Hugo, and Thor actually talked...too bad it wasn't a great story and you are stuck in the Darm Tower the whole game.

    One big problem with Ys games (and potential buyers beware) is that the level designs makes no sense, they are just long graphically filled corridors which for the most part exist for no apparent reason. Star Ocean 4 comes to mind when I think about how arbitrarily the levels have been designed in the Ys and the Legend of Heroes games as well. I seriously have to laugh my butt off every time I see these games because I have to ask myself why it is that Falcom has become so skilled in making buildings, castles, towers, and you name it that are completely nonsensical. Music for these games is generally good; gameplay, not so much; and story, well, when you have a main character who doesn't say a word, it's pretty hard to create a compelling story, period. No movie would be a box office smash if the protagonist never said a word, that's for sure.
    FFXIII doesn\'t have deep mechanics (the lauded \"Paradigm Shift\" is just a set of six different Gambits that you can\'t alter), and the \"story\" degenerates into two trainwrecks piled on top of each other.
    -Jeffrey
  • flamethrowerflamethrower Member Full Members
    edited August 2010
    I'm of the opinion that games are of a certain quality.
    When the game is released at (I don't know pick a number, let's say) $40, the game is of that quality.
    When the game is later discounted to $20, the game maintains that quality. It doesn't suddenly become of lower or higher quality.
    This is especially true of console games, which can't be patched and don't have modding communities (for the most part).

    I forgot to say that if I was better at boss fights, I wouldn't have to grind so much.
    The point of any Ys game is action, not story. You can say this about any action RPG. The point of the story is to give backdrop to the action.
    In Felghana, my time was 10 hours. I spent 1.5 hours grinding towards the end on normal difficulty. All other grinding was around another hour.
  • nunuununuu Member Full Members
    edited August 2010
    I think that we're forgetting that Falcom's market is Japan. They don't aim to please the Western audience, although if more of their games do well here through XSEED then maybe they may start changing their strategy and "modernize" Ys games. However, for now, they're sticking to what works for them. It's kind of like Koei and their infinite Musou incarnations which magically sell a lot and end up on the top 10 in Japan. Consistently. I always wonder about that. I suppose it just goes to show that people like their formulaic games and Falcom fans love their Ys the way it is. :3
  • ZerkerZerker Member Full Members
    edited August 2010
    demonsoulsmaster said:
    You can also claim that it's possible to get by without getting hit on every boss in Felghana which I'll believe it when I see it, and I'll even ask you to prove your claim, but that's 100% not going to be the case with the average gamer, especially those who play RPGs most of the time because they are going to get their clock cleaned...and then forced back into their pitiful corner where they're going to have to grind some more.
    I'm going to be brutally honest and say Ys is not for them (or they should be playing on Easy). Ys is an action game first and RPG second. If you play it the other way around, you will be disappointed. The plot (while sometimes fairly good) is mostly an excuse to get you into different dungeons and fight another massive boss with patterns to memorize and exploit. Classic old-school action gaming at its finest ;).

    Heck, the final Boss of Felghana is practically from a shmup.
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited August 2010
    DemonSoulz - I can assure you RPGamer reviewers review the games pretty much the same whether they get a review copy or buy them. In fact, a good number of games reviewed (such as DQ9), were all bought by the reviewers themselves. Regardless, the end score usually comes down to one factor...how much fun was it? Of course, there are some expectations for certain price points. If those expectations are not met, it will be noted in the review (Such as a $60 rpg lasting only 10 hours). However, if the game was super fun, even for those 10 hours, it's bound to get a higher score. While you may feel that you expect 'longer game play for your money' and therefore a score should be knocked for being so short at that price point, there will be some who feel they prefer a 'short but sweet' experience over something that is longer... especially since some longer games just feel padded out. At any rate, as with most discussion of this flavor, it really comes down to reading the text in the review.
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