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Abysmal FFXIV Review!

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  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited October 2010
    Quin wrote: »
    Has anyone got a reliable source for this? I did a bit of looking, but it all linked back to one place.

    It's mostly suspicion, but COME ON.... Chocopo? Horsebird? Weabons? I don't remember anything about that coming out about Japanese FFXI, XII or XIII. Clearly, there's something wrong here.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • QuinQuin ne cede malis RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2010
    That's not an answer to the question. Reliable source, please.
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  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited October 2010
    The only source that I'm aware of is what people have been saying on 2ch.
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  • ShadowcatShadowcat Member Full Members
    edited October 2010
    with the systems that are in place now it doesn't really surprise me. I even had someone who played the FF14 beta PM me because of my sig and started asking FFXI questions(wanting to play that game instead). Also someone here brought up a point: FFXI was out for quite awhile in Japan before anyone in the US reviewed it. This makes me wonder if there are any old reviews of FFXI from it's Japan launch that we could compare the scores to?

    I've said this before but I think SE is slowing killing off the Final Fantasy franchise. I don't know much about FF13(the last offline one) but it sounds like a bad interactive movie and not an RPG(heck I think old Dragon's Lair might be better or maybe Heavy Rain) with "Auto Battle" and the lack of branching paths for 20+ hrs. It isn't that I mind dungeons it's just that I like to explore and possibly get lost(SE make a better maze ok?). I can't really say and thanks to blockbuster almost going out of business I so need gamefly to confirm or deny my fears. (I have no idea I just read about all the systems in the game)
    FFXI Character name: Shadowneko Server: Quetzalcoatl Main Jobs: lvl 76 THF, lvl 95 Summoner, lvl 39 Dragoon
    FlOzXvF.jpg
    My VAPS Entry,
  • Alex FullerAlex Fuller Managing Editor RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2010
    Don't know how everyone else found XIII but yeah to me it was pretty much run a straight line until the end of disc 2 at least (of 3 on the 360). I haven't played past that so someone else would be better qualified to expand on the supposed good bit. The apparent lack of this is probably why people are still holding out hope for Agito and Versus, but eh my faith is beginning to dwindle. The auto-battle thing isn't particularly bad in itself to be fair, just that it seems like over 20 hours of very slow build up until the possible hope of actual game.

    Dissappointing but maybe I should have seen this coming, guess back to hoping The Old Republic will be good enough to encourage me to try an MMO again...

    (I reckon Gamespot's reviewing licence should be revoked for this shocking review)
    "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."
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  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited October 2010
    I stopped playing XIII, it was rather bad ...
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  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited October 2010
    Shadowcat wrote: »
    I've said this before but I think SE is slowing killing off the Final Fantasy franchise. I don't know much about FF13(the last offline one) but it sounds like a bad interactive movie and not an RPG(heck I think old Dragon's Lair might be better or maybe Heavy Rain) with "Auto Battle" and the lack of branching paths for 20+ hrs. It isn't that I mind dungeons it's just that I like to explore and possibly get lost(SE make a better maze ok?). I can't really say and thanks to blockbuster almost going out of business I so need gamefly to confirm or deny my fears. (I have no idea I just read about all the systems in the game)

    It's not an intentional killing off of things. The problem is that the Japanese developers are stagnating and I think we're in the midst of spasms, convulsions or death throes from them until they figure out what the hell works now. I do think the M&A streak that Square-Enix has been on has hurt more than helped, but there have been some solid games coming out of them, just a lot of the bigger profile games aren't living up to anyone's expectations.

    At this point I think they really need to do some back to basics and corporate soul searching.
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • ShadowcatShadowcat Member Full Members
    edited October 2010
    shoptroll wrote: »
    It's not an intentional killing off of things. The problem is that the Japanese developers are stagnating and I think we're in the midst of spasms, convulsions or death throes from them until they figure out what the hell works now. I do think the M&A streak that Square-Enix has been on has hurt more than helped, but there have been some solid games coming out of them, just a lot of the bigger profile games aren't living up to anyone's expectations.

    At this point I think they really need to do some back to basics and corporate soul searching.

    I never said it was intentional but I do thinks SE's current addiction to AI vs the old school micromanagement of the ATB is bad(at least to me). If you do bad AI everyone complains about it but if you do too good of an AI then the "Who's playing you or the game/computer?" question pops up. In SE's case with things like FF12's(yes I did play FF12 some and I still hate it..) gambits and in FF13 "Who's playing?" seems to be the question of the day.(but what do i know? I need to rent the darn thing still..)

    While I don't have to tap to button to swing the sword I do like to choose which spell to cast, what commands to execute and how to run my party. AI will never allow me to do this and even good AI never does what I think it should do in any given situation.(don't cure...raise the guy darn it!) While the ATB wasn't perfect and needed well...tweaking...it still left full control of the party to the players....
    FFXI Character name: Shadowneko Server: Quetzalcoatl Main Jobs: lvl 76 THF, lvl 95 Summoner, lvl 39 Dragoon
    FlOzXvF.jpg
    My VAPS Entry,
  • HyristHyrist formally jiroo chan 007 Full Members
    edited October 2010
    Wow has it been a long time since I've been on the boards.
    At this point I think they really need to do some back to basics and corporate soul searching.

    Or have them fall into obscurity. Square Enix has had a good running, bested really only by Nintendo and Capcom. And the Final Fantasy franchise has seen more iderations than anyone but Megaman. (and I've my resurvations about keeping that seriese afloat any longer either.)

    I think it's time to simply find another flagship for the publishing company and let the name rest.

    That said, there was a lot I enjoyed about FFXIII and FFXIV. (The reactions to the games problems are, to me, far worse than the problems themselves, which is the primary reason I've retired from MMOs and the forums surrounding them.) They were flawed products, both, for sure. But that never stopped me from enjoying The Last Remnant. (Difference between technical flaws and design flaws perhaps?_

    Still, There's areguments back and forth abounds about 14 and how leniant we should or should not be about it. IMO Aion had a worse launch and that game in particular had been out for a good while before it ever hit our shores. But that does not excuse the low quality releaces of MMOs in general.
  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited October 2010
    Hyrist wrote: »
    Or have them fall into obscurity.

    At the rate they're going, they're going to be turning Final Fantasy into the next Sonic. The other problem is they're quickly burning through their franchises. Mana is dead. Front Mission was always niche and Evolved is falling flat (rightly so). What's left? FF, KH, DQ, and I guess the resurrected PE (assuming 3rd Birthday is worthwhile), not to mention their western properties they've acquired via M&A. Right now, I think more people have as much reverence for Atlus as they did for Squaresoft back in the SNES/PSX era.
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • HyristHyrist formally jiroo chan 007 Full Members
    edited October 2010
    Well here's the question, why does it have to be an old franchise?

    I've been begging for some good quality new IPs from any company for a while, and tho they've stumbeled on some issues, some of their other games really are not that bad.

    But on the subject of old franchises.

    Kingdom Hearts is still running strong. People may not have liked the side stories but they did decently sales wise and Birth By Sleep is a return to its older glory, making me VERY anxious for Reconnect.

    PE... well, I LOVED the origonal. The second, not so much but it was still good. I'm interested in seeing how they come with the third. Not a big fan of DQ (I blame the art direction. I loved the old classics.)

    So there is still some spark there to rekindle. And as I said, I still enjoy some of their more flawed titles. My opinion is though that SE should really just focus on creating good quality games and not 'popular' or 'easily accessable' games. They'll be much more popular if they stick to the basics of what made it good.
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2010
    An MMO with a rough launch? STOP THE PRESSES
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  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited October 2010
    Hyrist wrote: »
    Well here's the question, why does it have to be an old franchise?

    I've been begging for some good quality new IPs from any company for a while, and tho they've stumbeled on some issues, some of their other games really are not that bad.

    But on the subject of old franchises.

    Kingdom Hearts is still running strong. People may not have liked the side stories but they did decently sales wise and Birth By Sleep is a return to its older glory, making me VERY anxious for Reconnect.

    PE... well, I LOVED the origonal. The second, not so much but it was still good. I'm interested in seeing how they come with the third. Not a big fan of DQ (I blame the art direction. I loved the old classics.)

    So there is still some spark there to rekindle. And as I said, I still enjoy some of their more flawed titles. My opinion is though that SE should really just focus on creating good quality games and not 'popular' or 'easily accessable' games. They'll be much more popular if they stick to the basics of what made it good.

    It's not so much that old franchises are the people's focus (FFVII remake people aside), but that Square Enix has apparently taken the position that new IPs aren't worth the trouble. Seriously, only Nintendo is worse about new IP than SE (even Activision has the occasional Prototype or Blur come out every once in a while). This wouldn't be so bad if said games were of any quality, but SE's become a very bland company even by Japanese standards, a testament to that nation's crippling hubris. What little they try seems focused on taking more and more control away from the player to the point where, yeah, comparisons to Dragon's Lair are justified at this point. I've said this before, but that company is in need of a severe corporate makeover. If it weren't for Eidos, they'd be a complete non-entity in the global game market.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2010
    It's not so much that old franchises are the people's focus (FFVII remake people aside), but that Square Enix has apparently taken the position that new IPs aren't worth the trouble. Seriously, only Nintendo is worse about new IP than SE (even Activision has the occasional Prototype or Blur come out every once in a while). This wouldn't be so bad if said games were of any quality, but SE's become a very bland company even by Japanese standards, a testament to that nation's crippling hubris. What little they try seems focused on taking more and more control away from the player to the point where, yeah, comparisons to Dragon's Lair are justified at this point. I've said this before, but that company is in need of a severe corporate makeover. If it weren't for Eidos, they'd be a complete non-entity in the global game market.

    yay for completely untrue generalization!
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  • Confessor RahlConfessor Rahl Member Full Members
    edited October 2010
    Wheels wrote: »
    An MMO with a rough launch? STOP THE PRESSES

    Wheels. Did you even read the thread?
    "Back when FF9 was coming out. People were rejoicing because it was actually a fantasy game and not a sci-fi game like 7 and 8. It's hilarious in modern context, with everyone wanking themselves to dehydration at the thought of a FF7 remake."
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2010
    Wheels. Did you even read the thread?

    Yes I did.
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  • Confessor RahlConfessor Rahl Member Full Members
    edited October 2010
    Wheels wrote: »
    Yes I did.

    Then you realize your post was quite uninformed. If you read the thread, you would know that it is far from something as simple as your run of the mill, not so smooth MMO launch. I am glad we are on the same page.
    "Back when FF9 was coming out. People were rejoicing because it was actually a fantasy game and not a sci-fi game like 7 and 8. It's hilarious in modern context, with everyone wanking themselves to dehydration at the thought of a FF7 remake."
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2010
    Then you realize your post was quite uninformed. If you read the thread, you would know that it is far from something as simple as your run of the mill, not so smooth MMO launch. I am glad we are on the same page.

    Yes, because by making a joke I was really trying to post some informed opinion on the matter?
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  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2010
    Here's my real opinion on the review: Reviewing MMOs is pointless unless you're going to update it as much as MMOs are updated. FFXIV looks a complete mess right now, but that doesn't mean there wont be fun to had in the future.
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  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited October 2010
    I think the Gamespot review was accurate. This isn't just a failed MMO launch with lots of technical issues in need of cleaning up. These problems are fundamental issues in need of adjustment. First and foremost is the UI. It's one thing to make tweaks and adjustments to a game to improve it, which I think they will do, but another thing to fix the foundation of the game entirely. That's what's needed here.

    Though I do hate reading the "SE needs to go under" or "SE has no idea how to make a good game" comments. They have lots of dev teams around. The FFXI team worked on part on this. The team that did FFX-2 did most of FFXIII. There are other folks out there doing work for SE, so yes, they will have games people don't like, but that doesn't mean everything they do will suck either. They are way too big to assume it's the same people at the helm every time.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2010
    Macstorm wrote: »
    I think the Gamespot review was accurate. This isn't just a failed MMO launch with lots of technical issues in need of cleaning up. These problems are fundamental issues in need of adjustment. First and foremost is the UI. It's one thing to make tweaks and adjustments to a game to improve it, which I think they will do, but another thing to fix the foundation of the game entirely. That's what's needed here.

    Though I do hate reading the "SE needs to go under" or "SE has no idea how to make a good game" comments. They have lots of dev teams around. The FFXI team worked on part on this. The team that did FFX-2 did most of FFXIII. There are other folks out there doing work for SE, so yes, they will have games people don't like, but that doesn't mean everything they do will suck either. They are way too big to assume it's the same people at the helm every time.

    Sure that's understandable, my overall point though, is that if you're going to do a review of an MMO you should constantly update the review when things are fixed, otherwise even if it hits the fundamentals, it could miss a lot of things. I mean, look at WoW, though obviously the reviews are positive, they don't really accurately describe the current game at all. Not saying the review isn't accurate or anything. This will probably never be a great game.
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  • HyristHyrist formally jiroo chan 007 Full Members
    edited October 2010
    Let's drop the RPG only barrier for a moment.

    Kane & Lynch, Laura Croft and the Guardian of Light, Deus Ex, Mind Jack, Tactics Ogre, Gun Loco.

    That's not including RPG, and those are only recent features.

    Lets not for get Inifinte Undiscovery, The Last Remnant, Star Ocean, Valkerie Profile, and the other IPs they obtained by sucking up various companies. SE could easily push investments in them if they wished, and many of these games were pretty darn good, though some previous generation.

    We could credit their previous developers, but some of those developers are still on board, so SE gives them more leeway than lately, then they can turn around this trend of not-so-stellar games.

    But there are still gems there to have. I haven't lost all my faith in the company yet. But FFXIV definatly affirmed the fact that I should stay away form MMOs for the duration.
  • MaudrenMaudren i can post! thanx paws! Full Members
    edited October 2010
    What was wrong with Aion's launch Hyrist? My wife and I bought and played it together at launch and enjoyed it very much for a solid 3 or 4 months. It was a pretty smooth launch.

    A lot of people are being apologetic and attributing FF14's issues to the woes of early mmo launch, but it's issues go far beyond that.
    sup?
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited October 2010
    Maudren wrote: »
    A lot of people are being apologetic and attributing FF14's issues to the woes of early mmo launch, but it's issues go far beyond that.
    Very true. It's not your typical "servers are unstable" or "there are bugs" that is plaguing this game. It's design decisions and issues that even FFXI had already fixed. I'm not saying these can't be remedied, but it's going to take some really work, not just a patch here and there.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • JormungandJormungand Member Full Members
    edited October 2010
    Hrm, I'm not sure if the reviewer actually has played the release version, but I have, so I'd be happy to answer any questions about the game. The interface is similar to FFXI, so I guess if you didn't like it there, you won't like it here. Since beta, response time has improved significantly. Also, hardware mouse is implemented.

    Missions (guildleves) are fun and make for easy pick-up-and-go quests for solo or party enjoyment. I have yet to run out of things to do (which, really, can't possibly be a common problem). Guildleves do have a timer before you can select and complete more, but that's 16 of them (8 battle/field leves; 8 crafting leves). Unless you play all night every night, you shouldn't be running out of stuff to do.

    Unfortunately, due to the irrationally vitriolic and overblown tone of the author's review, I can't be bothered to read the whole thing. If anyone has specific concerns they'd like addressed, I'll try to help. The game is not even close to being as bad as various reviews make it out to be.
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited October 2010
    What was vitriolic about the Gamespot review? His concerns were reasonable. Just ignoring the score, I'd be curious to hear what he was wrong about.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited October 2010

    For those of you who prefer your reviews of the video variety.
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    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
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  • ClixClix Listmaster Full Members
    edited October 2010
    Jormungand wrote: »
    If anyone has specific concerns they'd like addressed, I'll try to help.

    Since I haven't heard raging of it, I assume they removed the lose of experience from death. ...Please say they learned that was a big no-no.
    ClixPsi.png
  • JormungandJormungand Member Full Members
    edited October 2010
    Clix wrote: »
    Since I haven't heard raging of it, I assume they removed the lose of experience from death. ...Please say they learned that was a big no-no.
    Correct, you don't lose exp if you get KO'd.
  • HyristHyrist formally jiroo chan 007 Full Members
    edited October 2010
    Maudren wrote: »
    What was wrong with Aion's launch Hyrist? My wife and I bought and played it together at launch and enjoyed it very much for a solid 3 or 4 months. It was a pretty smooth launch.

    A lot of people are being apologetic and attributing FF14's issues to the woes of early mmo launch, but it's issues go far beyond that.

    Severe grind issues, an RMT surge that re-defined the term "invasion" Glitchy Fortress runs (to the point if it crashing servers.) This isn't going into the major class imbalances that described the onset. And the game was several months old before coming to US as well.

    I was a member of one of the top Elyos legions on my server, and I got to experience all the flaws of Aion's start. (Which was hilarious, cause I really enjoyed the game clear through the betas.)

    That all said, I tolerated all of it. I ended up quitting primarily due to me not being a hardcore PVP player and the balance issues between gear and level. I might still pick it back up again if I decide to return to MMOs.

    But I can't apologize or excuse the business decision of SE to release FFXIV in it's current condition. It's an unfinished game and releasing it in this state is going to severely harm it's subscription base. FFXI had the advantage of being an earlier mmo when players were more tolerable of major problems. However, SE's going to learn a hard lesson about how the gaming base has changed over the years.
    Macstorm wrote:
    Though I do hate reading the "SE needs to go under" or "SE has no idea how to make a good game" comments. They have lots of dev teams around. The FFXI team worked on part on this. The team that did FFX-2 did most of FFXIII. There are other folks out there doing work for SE, so yes, they will have games people don't like, but that doesn't mean everything they do will suck either. They are way too big to assume it's the same people at the helm every time.

    Need to step back and address this.

    The more I think on this, the more I believe it seriously needs to happen. Square Enix is a massive company, for sure. But this is hurting it more than helping it. Breaking the group up into smaller, more recognizable teams to design and construct the games will allow the player-base to stop pinning it on the Square Enix brand themselves, and to pick out the specific developer groups within SE as 'bad teams'.

    Mist-walker in essence did this, and they came out with two very strong titles in their own right by stepping away from the larger publisher. This happened AGAIN when Tri-Crescendo stomped only being the sound designer for Tri Ace and came out with their own titles (Baiten Kaidos+Origins and Eternal Sonata).

    The big company seems to be getting rather lax in their position of superiority while leaner, hungrier companies are starting to really push in on the quality level. It might be wise for SE to start separating up their groups a bit more definably to reach differing audiences by highly recognizable development groups instead of game titles. (And give them the creative freedoms to define themselves as such.)
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