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Smoking/Anti-Smoking

The Big BangThe Big Bang MemberFull Members
edited February 2014 in Miscellaneous
I was reading through the news today and came across an article that caught my attention. Apparently, the city of Chicago, IL. is trying to get smoking banned from bars and restaurants completely. I myself, a bar hopper and smoker find this truely offensive. ?

I will admit there are certain places that smoking should not be allowed, public restaurants are a place that should be smoke free. Late night hang-outs(i.e IHOP) should not be smoke free. I've sat at many of these 24 hour establishments drinking cofee,smoking and having some fo the best conversations I've ever had in my life.

I was just curious as what other RPGamer's thought of these new proposed laws.

Feedback please!



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Comments

  • Options
    edited February 2003
    Well, pay for something that KILL you is a little... dumb.
    Cigarette is a drug, must be banished.
  • RicoRico Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    IHOP isn't a restaurant? News to me...

    In any case, smoking should be completely banned from all public areas in which it is possible for someone to unwillingly inhale or otherwise be affected by cigarette smoke.
  • Options
    edited February 2003
    TBB, a few months ago I would have agree'd with you 100%. ?As of now I only say I agree with you about 25%. ?I was a smoker from about age 14. (sadly). I quit for a full year when I was 19 and then started up again, Recently I quit for hopefully the final time. ?I have been smoke free for 3 months and am very happy (I have an uncanny ability to quit cold turkey and not suffer fits)

    On one hand, as a non smoker, I really dislike being around smokers now. ?My friends all smoke and they stink. ?My little brother smokes and he stinks. ?When I go out drinking at a bar I come home and I stink. ?I can't fathom how I used to smell like that on a regular basis, it makes me gag.

    On the other hand as a former smoker, I agree that being at a bar or having coffee late night at Denny's/George Webb's/IHOP without smokes would be inconceivable! ?When I first heard about California's anti-smoking laws, I was actually offended. ?If non-smokers DON'T want to inhale my smoke they wont hang out at a BAR or sit near a SMOKING SECTION! DUH!

    Then I thought about it. ?What gives me the right to force harm on another human in a public place, wether it is severely damaging or not. ?I'm not an expert on second hand smoke and I'm pretty sure you don't need to be one to know, if you hang out in a bar, or a restaurant (regardless of designated smoking/non-smoking sections) you WILL inhale an excess of second hand smoke. ?And it's PROVEN that cigarette smoke inhaled 1st or 2nd hand IS DANGEROUS. ?I actually felt guilt about smoking in public places. ?Why am I poisoning these people for a habit that I acknowledge as filthy and damaging.

    The issue is, wether or not it's realistic to say smoking is not allowed in ANY public place. ?I think it's pretty ludicrous. ?In Cali they might be able to get away with it, seeing as the weather is (usually?) decent enough that you can step outside and have a smoke. ?In Chicago I couldn't see it happening. ?I live in Milwaukee and if someone at Denny's would have told me a few months ago to go out into near 0 degree temps to have a smoke I would have told them to shove it. ?It could be justified to have smoking not allowed up until a ceratin time at night when all the decent folk clear out and the rabble remain? ( I say that in a nice way, myself being a part of the latter smile.gif ) ?Or maybe have some restaurants/bars designated as non-smoking. ?Then you could pick and choose where you hung out. ?If they DO pass laws completely banning smoking in public, you can't really say they are infringing on your rights. ?You DO have the right to slowly poison yourself. ?But to force it on someone else is basically wrong, no matter what perspective I use sad.gif

    Sorry for being long winded.
  • maryadaviesmaryadavies She Shoots For The Stars Somewhere east of Atlanta, GAModerators
    edited February 2003
    I do agree. That is a little rididulos, banning smoking in bars. See, I've never smoked and I never will. I do have friends who smoke tho (they know I hate the smell of it tho (tho I also don't make a issue of them smokin' around me) and that thee do not light up when my mom comes near you, since she's allergic to cigarette smoke and it may trigger a athsma attack [frightening thing to watch]) I don't belive in makin' someone quit tho. It's yer choice and yer choice alone to smoke or not.

    Resterants I understand why they'd ban smoking--my mom may not be the only athsmatic that is allergic to cigaratte smoke. (and I do think there should be a smoking section though. Sheesh, there's such a thing as too far.) But bars? At least provide a smoking section...because I have a very good idea how powerful that urge to light up is. (I've had A LOT of nursing training and they really pushed "don't smoke" in the health classes I took in high school.)



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  • SinSin Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Resterants I understand why they'd ban smoking--my mom may not be the only athsmatic that is allergic to cigaratte smoke. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    =Me, and my mom smokes.

    I'm all for a total ban on smoking. Not just in public places, but make it illegal. Pot and cocaine and heroin are illegal, and tobacco is just as bad.

    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada has been pushing for a total ban on smoking in all public places. And anyone under 18 caught with tobacco products will be fined like $500 or something.
    I'm quite proud of that city. If you want to moke, do it in your own home, or at least away from me.

    As for having a "smoking area", they dont exist. In most places, the only thing separating smoking from non-smoking sections is a wall about 3 feet high, and a 2 meter gap between it and any walls. You can still see the lit cigarettes in the peoples mouths on the other side of the "barrier".

    I give it 20 years, tops, before it is illegal. And I can't wait for that day.
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  • Captain VittlesCaptain Vittles Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    Where I live (Sydney, NS, Canada), we've had some strict non-smoking laws for the past year. And they just got stricter after New Year's. I'm all for it, as I can go to a restaurant or pool hall or the mall and not reek like a chimney when I come home. I know it must suck for smokers, but it's not like people are allowed to freely indulge in many other vices in most public places. I can't get drunk off my Moo and annoy people at the mall, so why should someone else be allowed to fill up with carcinogens and then spew a few into the air for good measure?

    Note that the current law here allows some establishments (notably bars) to allow their patrons to smoke after 9 or 10 PM. And while I personally think that a flat-out smoking ban would be better, I also recognize that the reality of such a law would result in chaos. There's already been some charges laid against some restaurant staff for being at work while patrons were smoking - it's going to court because they claim it's not their job to be policing a bylaw. Much as I agree with the new law, I also agree that the staff were unlawfully charged, as they *aren't* police.

    I think the key is education and destroying the image of smoking as cool and glamorous. But the kinds of social changes needed aren't going to happen without some other big social and economic changes - namely changing the influence a Big Money industry has on our social outlook. But now I sound like a damn dirty hippie, so I'll shut up.
  • generatorgenerator Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    i'm all for a smoking ban. ?i don't like smoke, i don't like smelling like smoke when coming home from somewhere, and i really don't like pronouncing the name "marlboro".

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I've sat at many of these 24 hour establishments drinking cofee,smoking and having some fo the best conversations I've ever had in my life.
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    err.. somehow i think you could have these conversations without smoking.
  • The Big BangThe Big Bang Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    My uncanny ability to post and not make sense is at an all time high again. Let me clarify a couple of things

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"IHOP isn't a restaurant? News to me...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    By public restaurants I meant Mcdonalds/Hardees/Burger King. On a side note, the IHOP where im at, nobody ever eats, they just drink coffee and smoke. Occasionally they will get that one old couple that eats biggrin.gif

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"err.. somehow i think you could have these conversations without smoking.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    This one is a little harder to explain. It somehow just heigtens the mood, maybe its one of those pseudo-intellectual things. I don't know I can't explain it.
  • TrueGamerTrueGamer Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    Smoking=Eventual death=Suicide awareness=Death(all proven)
    -What new laws? I thought attempted suicide put people in mental hospitals.

    Smoking=Bystander inhalation=Health deteoriation=Death=Murder
    -Last time I checked, ruining someone's health without their permission was illegal, and downright killing them was murder. Even companies spilling harmful chemicals (ruining the health of a community) over time still found the executives in criminal courts.

    "Smokers have the right to smoke." That's true, but...

    "Non-smokers have the right not to smoke." That's true too, but second-hand smoke isn't easy to avoid. So, where should the laws lean? How about in favour of the fact that destroying one's health (and someone else's) isn't acceptable? Just because it sells well (like drugs) doesn't mean it should be legal (but that's a different issue) .

    In the end: any law banning cigarettes or leaning in that direction is good.
  • Geek_SquidGeek_Squid Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    as a smoker i find it offensive people telling me not to smoke, i am educated about the risks, i dont do it where i am not supposed to, dont get in peoples faces so i think i should be allowed to do what i damn well like.
  • LordBrianLordBrian Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    My opinion is this. If you want to fill your body with toxic and smelly substances, you are well within your rights to do so. It's your body and your life, I don't have any business telling you otherwise. As long as it doesn't affect me. As soon as what you're doing reaches me, then I have the right to tell you to knock it the hell off. I choose not to be a smoker -- I shouldn't have smoke forced on me because you feel like having a cigarette with your coffee. You shouldn't smoke in public places for the same reason you shouldn't talk during a movie: it's rude, and you're ruining the experience for everyone else. It just comes down to, don't be a jackass.
  • AletheaAlethea Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I'm all for a total ban on smoking. Not just in public places, but make it illegal. Pot and cocaine and heroin are illegal, and tobacco is just as bad.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    As someone who lost too many family members to lung cancer, and someone who has long-term health problems from breathing second-hand smoke, I'm all for smoking bans. However, the problem with making tobacco illegal is that a whole other host of problems will emerge. For example, street tobacco, like street drugs, may be cut by dealers with another additive. Cocaine is sometimes cut with flour or talcum powder in order to stretch it out and sell less real product for the same amount of money. Drugs can also be cut with another cheaper but more dangerous additive. This was the case in my high school in which a batch of drugs sold to oblivious students was blended with a medicine normally given to the mentally ill. The result was a handful of students having near-fatal reactions and ending up in the hospital. While doing drugs is clearly stupid, my point is that illegal tobacco will take on the other problems associated with illegal drugs: violence, robberies, dangerously "cut" products, and so forth. In addition, thousands who work for the tobacco industry will be out of jobs. We must also factor in the cost of keeping tobacco legal: millions of dollars being spent in health care, lawsuits, and buying the products themselves, not to mention the suffering of people who have cancer and the hell their families go through. Overall we've got to weigh both sides before we make a decision. Personally, I think we're better off without tobacco, but that's just me, and I understand that smokers see the issue differently.

    I'd also like to comment on the so-called "smoking sections" of restaurants. Sin was right about them being surrounded by flimsy partitions. Often the ventilation is poor as well, which means that I have to inhale someone's smoke while I eat. I think an important first step is to improve smoking sections so that they are in enclosed areas with separate ventilation systems (some states, including my home state of Oklahoma, have laws regulating smoking sections, and some restaurants do this voluntarily). Second, smokers and non-smokers need to respect each other's rights and come together to support these restaurants who do show concern for their patrons.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I think the key is education and destroying the image of smoking as cool and glamorous. ?But the kinds of social changes needed aren't going to happen without some other big social and economic changes - namely changing the influence a Big Money industry has on our social outlook. ?But now I sound like a damn dirty hippie, so I'll shut up.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Well said. This hippie agrees with you. smile.gif TBB even pointed out that
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"It somehow just heigtens the mood, maybe its one of those pseudo-intellectual things.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    My grandmother, a smoker with early signs of emphysema, once told me that she and her friends used to practice smoking in front of the mirror. She said they felt so beautiful and glamorous. That image is still prevalent, along with new images of smoking that ties it to rebellion, intellectualism, and even heightened energy levels. Personally, I like the Truth ads that use quirky ways to send the message about the dangers of smoking. I like to seeing the postive false images of smoking countered by the negative realities.



  • The Big BangThe Big Bang Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"My grandmother, a smoker with early signs of emphysema, once told me that she and her friends used to practice smoking in front of the mirror. She said they felt so beautiful and glamorous. That image is still prevalent, along with new images of smoking that ties it to rebellion, intellectualism, and even heightened energy levels[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    All too true. In all reality recent events have changed thoughts about smoking. ?What happened is my mom showed me a couple of pictures of my grandfather when he was in the hospital for lung cancer. To be honest, that photograph is going to haunt me forever. It's a shame that Truth and iDecide can't put that kind of stuff on ads. Stuff like that would turn heads and make people truely think about the dangers of smoking.



  • ArdoArdo Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    I don't mind if someone wants to smoke as long as they're not anywhere near me or blowing smoke in my face. I shouldn't have to breathe that garbage if I don't want to. I think it should be banned in restaurants or they need to make a very seperate smoking section. I hate it when my family goes out to eat and we say "Non-smoking please" and we're right next to the edge of the smoking section and we can still smell someone who is smoking. Smokers can smoke in private where it doesn't affect anyone else.
  • TrueGamerTrueGamer Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"If you want to fill your body with toxic and smelly substances, you are well within your rights to do so. It's your body and your life, I don't have any business telling you otherwise. As long as it doesn't affect me. As soon as what you're doing reaches me, then I have the right to tell you to knock it the hell off. I choose not to be a smoker -- I shouldn't have smoke forced on me because you feel like having a cigarette with your coffee.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    There is a problem with that though: you may not mind for one person, but as you go through life and deal with more and more people who do smoke, you will find at the end that your lungs aren't as good as they could have been. No matter what you do, your health will be compromised by those who smoke. It's unavoidable: eventually you will have to deal with those who smoke, and it will happen enough times in life to affect you.
  • LordBrianLordBrian Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TrueGamer @ Feb. 12 2003,17:51)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"If you want to fill your body with toxic and smelly substances, you are well within your rights to do so. It's your body and your life, I don't have any business telling you otherwise. As long as it doesn't affect me. As soon as what you're doing reaches me, then I have the right to tell you to knock it the hell off. I choose not to be a smoker -- I shouldn't have smoke forced on me because you feel like having a cigarette with your coffee.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    There is a problem with that though: you may not mind for one person, but as you go through life and deal with more and more people who do smoke, you will find at the end that your lungs aren't as good as they could have been. No matter what you do, your health will be compromised by those who smoke. It's unavoidable: eventually you will have to deal with those who smoke, and it will happen enough times in life to affect you.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I'm not sure how what you're saying relates to what I said. I didn't say I don't mind for one person -- anyone and everyone in the world can smoke to their lungs' content. What I said was that I don't care, as long as they don't do it around me. If they are on their private property, then I can't say anything. But in public areas that are visited by everyone, then you shouldn't smoke.

    Or are you just making the point that my lungs will be harmed by smoke when I'm around people who smoke? Well, uh, no kidding, if you are. Yes, it's unavoidable that I will inhale smoke over the course of my life. But that doesn't mean I can't try to minimize the amount that I inhale. If you can give me a good reason why the habit of smoking should be tolerated in public places, please, tell me. Any attempt to cut down on this habit as a society should be seen as a good thing, in my opinion. I can't think of any reason it should be perpetuated.
  • SinSin Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    And some more.

    Large companies aren't allowed to put chemicals in the air, as there is a limit to it, why should smokers?
    Tobacco puts more harmful things into the air than your everage car factory.
    I'd rather have a few Nitrogen by-products than formaldhyde, cyanide, uranium, thousands of carcinogens...

    My uncle just died of smoking diseases, too. He literally coughed his left lung onto his chest while he slept, or at least little bits of it, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't aslep for all of that.
    Isn't that a pretty picture?

    I think all you smokers should just sit down one day and ask yourself "Why am I doing this?".

    It doesn't taste good, it will kill me, it hurts, I smell awful, my food tastes like crap, I can't smell things worth a damn, people probably avoid me due to the smell, my fingers are turning yellow, as well as my teeth, it will give me wrinkles...

    And the good points...
    ....
    ....
    ....
    ....
    ....
    Well, if anyone can think of any, I'd really love to hear them.
    Walken1.jpg
  • The Big BangThe Big Bang Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    Actually, out of the 4000 ingredients of cigarettes, there are actually a few anti-depressants in there. Honestly, I don't remember the name of them. So I guess I don't have a very good point, Instead check this out
  • Geek_SquidGeek_Squid Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sin @ Feb. 13 2003,03:32)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I think all you smokers should just sit down one day and ask yourself "Why am I doing this?".

    It doesn't taste good, it will kill me, it hurts, I smell awful, my food tastes like crap, I can't smell things worth a damn, people probably avoid me due to the smell, my fingers are turning yellow, as well as my teeth, it will give me wrinkles...

    And the good points...
    ....
    ....
    ....
    ....
    ....
    Well, if anyone can think of any, I'd really love to hear them.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    you forgot the fact that it costs a fortune

    i smoke, i know all this crap but it's my choice, i do it in my house by the window, no one complains to me about it and i never give them any cause to.

    no one has ever been able to tell i am a smoker by the way i smell so thats not necessarily true, my food tastes fine, it doesnt hurt, i can smell things fine, my fingers are still the colour they always were and my teeth are white.

    i cant speak for everyone but i dont suffer any of those things and perhaps you should let people do what they like
  • RicoRico Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE". . . and perhaps you should let people do what they like[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    When did he ever force someone to stop smoking against their wishes, praytell?
  • TadrithTadrith Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    If you're smoking, you should probably find a some water immediately. I hear that prologed exposure of the flesh to flame can be bad for your health.

    ...

    Anyway, if you find this new law offensive, do not visit California. Smoking in a restaurant is illegal throughout the stake of California. We do not have a "smoking" section in our restaurants.

    Most bars nowadays have voluntarily banned smoking as well. Of the few pool halls I frequent, none of them allow smoking inside.

    While I'm sure smokers are probably upset by this, the reasoning is quite simple. Smoking is no longer a "cool" thing to do. Most people consider it to be a disgusting habit, and the effects of cigarettes on the body are well known now. These pool halls aren't banning smoking because they're required to, they're banning smoking because they're losing customers.



  • SinSin Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"While I'm sure smokers are probably upset by this, the reasoning is quite simple. Smoking is no longer a "cool" thing to do. Most people consider it to be a disgusting habit, and the effects of cigarettes on the body are well known now. These pool halls aren't banning smoking because they're required to, they're banning smoking because they're losing customers.

    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Thakfully, smokers are quickly becoming a minority in North America. More and more people are realizing it is a stupid thing to do, and aren't doing it.
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  • MonCapitan2002MonCapitan2002 Avatar Captured Full Members
    edited February 2003
    I can't wait for the day when tobacco companies go out of business as a result of people no longer buying the poison they peddle. ?I would have no sympathy for the people who lose their jobs as a result of the industry going under.
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  • Options
    edited February 2003
    I don't condemn anyone for smoking. I know better then any person who has never smoked before that it IS a hard vice to break. Squid please don't feel you need to be defensive around people here. Any non-smoker can just say it's bad for you and think anyone can quit like that. It's not true. But the people who say these things, like me, care. I don't like to see people smoke when I think about how much better I feel not smoking. And how much the pros of not smoking out weigh the cons.

    Some people are too far hooked, and seriously DON'T want to quit. It's something I see in my friends. The ones who still smoke say they won't quit ever. The mentality that it will just shave the unwanted years off your life. Or they enjoy it more then they feel it is hurting them. Or any other reason. I can't force my ideas into their heads so I let it slide. My best friend's father passed away when he was 12 years old ( my friend was 12, not his father smile.gif ) due to lung cancer and he smokes 2 packs a day and gets offended when I try to speak to him about the dangers of the habit. What's a friend to do?
  • RichardRichard Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    Thankfully I have not taken an interest in smoking, so I will not have to worry about any new smoking laws. However I think that smokers should be able to be free to light up in resturants and bars as long as they designate smoking and non-smoking sections. It's worked up until now, so why change it? More cigarette butts in the street if smokers are kept outside..
  • NanamiNanami New Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    I basically feel the same way as Richard.
  • RicoRico Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Richard @ Feb. 14 2003,21:19)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"It's worked up until now, so why change it?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    The thing is, it hasn't worked until now. It's just a false security, as there's frequently nothing preventing the smoke from the smoking section from escaping its invisible prison and tormenting the lungs of those in the non-smoking section. New laws are being proposed because the current system is ineffectual and more people are becoming wary of the serious health risk posed by second-hand smoke.
  • SinSin Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    It's just that I would rather not die because I want to eat at a restaurant, or go to a bar, or a pool hall, and so on.
    I'd just like to see a few more limits on it.
    And instead of everyone just quitting, maybe we should try harder to make the next generation not start in the first place.
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  • RhinoRhino Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    I think smoking should be banned at every indoor location. I'd also like to see a smoke-free college campus.
  • LordBrianLordBrian Member Full Members
    edited February 2003
    I'm sure many college campuses are designated as smoke free. Regardless of the health risks associated with smoking, colleges don't want to deal with cigarettes as a fire hazard, and all the extra insurance and regulations and whatnot that goes along with it. Whether these rules are enforced or not is a completely different matter, though.

    Though that does remind me of my favorite sign that was posted outside my high school. It read "This is a drug-free zone." As if drugs were only illegal on school property.
This discussion has been closed.