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The 3rd Birthday - Impression

NyxNyx Staff Girly GirlRPGamer Staff
edited March 2011 in Latest Updates
Aya Brea may be no disco prom queen, but she'll want you to love her until she dies. Will she tell you why? Just love her, love her till she dies.

Love me till I die... and keep me satisfied.

Comments

  • GaijinMonogatariGaijinMonogatari RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2011
    Sorry to hear you're not digging the story, but then again that's why we play all the way through before reviewing, no? :)
  • AirikAirik Member Full Members
    edited February 2011
    While I agree that Aya was absolutely one of the better female heroines, I do like how she is treated as something of an object. Not human. A tool. A means to an end. Just like soldiers in real life. With all of these video games playing as super soldiers/characters, it's easy to forget that in reality most of them are just another face in the crowd, serving their "master" (a country, their family, their town, their president/beliefs, anything they choose to fight for). It's cruel to say it that way, but not all soldiers are superhuman heroes. But I suppose it wouldn't be a very fun video game if everything was like real life, would it?

    Admittedly, there is a reason for it story-wise that only becomes clear near the end.
  • NyxNyx Staff Girly Girl RPGamer Staff
    edited March 2011
    Airik said:
    While I agree that Aya was absolutely one of the better female heroines, I do like how she is treated as something of an object. Not human. A tool. A means to an end. Just like soldiers in real life. With all of these video games playing as super soldiers/characters, it's easy to forget that in reality most of them are just another face in the crowd, serving their "master" (a country, their family, their town, their president/beliefs, anything they choose to fight for). It's cruel to say it that way, but not all soldiers are superhuman heroes. But I suppose it wouldn't be a very fun video game if everything was like real life, would it?

    Admittedly, there is a reason for it story-wise that only becomes clear near the end.


    I hope what your saying is true, because right now I feel like the male characters in this game demean her to levels that are simply infuriating.
  • cidsacidsa Member Full Members
    edited March 2011
    I played part of it in Japanese and had to quit, the sexism is just way too much for me. She's consistently demeaned and the game amps it up with the clothing damage and the fact you can unlock a maid costume. Aya was never a perfect character, but this just goes way too far.

    Definitely not going to purchase it when it comes out.
  • ElementolElementol Member Full Members
    edited March 2011
    its not a continuation of the original Parasite Eve storyline right? Do.not.want. then
    “Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it and it will never be used to hurt you.” - Tyrion Lannister
  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited March 2011
    Airik said:
    While I agree that Aya was absolutely one of the better female heroines, I do like how she is treated as something of an object. Not human. A tool. A means to an end.
    I haven't played the game yet (nor have I finished reading the impression), but I really can't agree with this. Ghost in the Shell has the similar presence of the female warrior protagonist and at least the Major's colleague's don't treat her as some sort of inferior.

    That said, I think I'm passing on this game until reviews roll in. It was stuck in development hell for a long time, is completely unrelated to the previous iterations, and I have yet to see S-E do a decent shooter game.
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • StormofSwordsStormofSwords Crazed Bullet Miser Full Members
    edited March 2011
    So...Because army guys are sexist, people are angry? Basically people are angry at a realistic portrayal of military figures? As for Aya not standing up for herself, I thought she lost her memory. This would make her slightly more confused and vulnerable, no?

    Sexism happens. That a portrayal of it in a video game would upset people is bizarre, to me. But I haven't played the game, so I'll wait till I do to pass judgment. Oh, and as for the maid outfit you can unlock, there's a solution; don't put it on. Problem solved.
    Madness is a complete statement. Saying more would be pointless.
  • AirikAirik Member Full Members
    edited March 2011
    shoptroll said:
    I haven't played the game yet (nor have I finished reading the impression), but I really can't agree with this. Ghost in the Shell has the similar presence of the female warrior protagonist and at least the Major's colleague's don't treat her as some sort of inferior.
    It's not really about treating her as an inferior, it's about treating her as a way to reach their goals. It's less actual hostility (at least from what I noticed in the Japanese version - maybe the localization changed something?) and more apathy. A good analogy would be a lab rat. The rat is useful, you must take care of it and make sure it's in good health, but in the end it's still a tool for the scientists.
    I'm not trying to say it's "right" for her to be treated this way, but it's an interesting plot tool and a reminder that in reality not everyone is treated as equals.

    Not to sound like an ***, but there are quite a few games that do this type of thing, where characters are treated more as tools than an actual person. Why is it suddenly a horrible thing when it happens to females? What about games like Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, one of the worse offenders? The entire game Ryu is treated as worse than dirt by everyone other than his party members (similar to this game - not everyone treats Aya badly) and even his "Dragon" is using him in some ways. Mana Khemia 2's male character is a boy toy and a certain female character actually spends time throughout the game molesting him. Xenogears has characters both male and female that are treated as tools, in a more blunt and harsh way than anything in The Third Birthday - their reason for existence is simply to be an obedient tool to further their master's ends.

    Disclaimer: I am, actually, an adult married woman. I'm not trying to come off as sexist, it's just there's a weird double standard here.
  • NyxNyx Staff Girly Girl RPGamer Staff
    edited March 2011
    I admit, the plot has gotten a bit better about being less misogynistic, that was until the beginning of chapter four started.
    Spoiler:
    Maeda is terrifying and he really does sexually objectify Aya. Ya don't say things to a women like "I never tire of seeing you overdive." and then go "hehehehe."
    . I have a huge problem with Aya's character just outright taking this type of objectification and not SAYING anything. That is something I am NOT okay with. Because no woman (in this case) should ever act like it's acceptable to be treated as an object.

    I can agree in some ways about why there's no level of equality in the case of Aya's character, especially now that I am further (considering chapter one doesn't paint a good first impression at all, but that was all SE allowed me to discuss). It's interesting, but the localization makes it borderline misogynistic in spots which was what I was getting at. I don't like this portrayal of the character. There's definitely a level of apathy, but then you have scenes like the beginning of chapter 4 that really turns the level of apathy of getting the mission done and defeating Babel on its head.

    And really, I'll come out and say it. I really dislike the inclusion of Aya losing her clothes in this game. I do, I find it so unnecessary and unrealistic in HOW she loses her clothes. I feel like it's a bit overboard considering I have to see Aya's naked butt in my face throughout my entire playthrough. I also find it kind of disgusting that when Aya is choked to death by a Snatcher, you get her hanging to death with her butt in your face as the game over screen. Was there any real need for that?
  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited March 2011
    Nyx said:
    And really, I'll come out and say it. I really dislike the inclusion of Aya losing her clothes in this game. I do, I find it so unnecessary and unrealistic in HOW she loses her clothes.
    The best part is how the developers were trying to claim that it was tasteful and they weren't looking to be erotic with this game. Then word got out that they were tossing in a shower scene for the game :rolleyes2:
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • OcelotOcelot is not declawed RPGamer Staff
    edited March 2011
    shoptroll said:
    The best part is how the developers were trying to claim that it was tasteful and they weren't looking to be erotic with this game. Then word got out that they were tossing in a shower scene for the game.

    Yes, there's a reason why I've actively disliked the way this game has been handled for months. All Dengeki could ever do when talking to the developers, it seemed, was to ask if there was going to be a shower scene. And the devs were all giggly and coy about it. Seriously, people, grow up.
    Becky Cunningham, Staff-at-Large
    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance
  • EmeraldSuzakuEmeraldSuzaku Member Full Members
    edited March 2011
    "But it's tasteful! See, no nipple!"

    Hey, maybe they could argue that the more "unfortunate" camera angles are just a result of a crappy camera.

    And speaking of the camera...are we talking about Monster Hunter levels of gamer claw here?
  • NyxNyx Staff Girly Girl RPGamer Staff
    edited March 2011
    EmeraldSuzaku said:
    "But it's tasteful! See, no nipple!"

    Hey, maybe they could argue that the more "unfortunate" camera angles are just a result of a crappy camera.

    And speaking of the camera...are we talking about Monster Hunter levels of gamer claw here?

    Not as bad as Monster Hunter in terms of the claw, but you will have to use it once in awhile. I know I have, but I have child sized hands that make playing my PSP already a bit of a challenge!
  • EmeraldSuzakuEmeraldSuzaku Member Full Members
    edited March 2011
    I really have to wonder what makes developers think that it's a good idea to design a camera that needs 4-way controls when the only two input methods for that are both on the same hand, and one has to be used for movement. I guess it wouldn't be a huge deal if one never needed to move the character and the camera at the same time, but that is generally not the case. Heck, my hand hurt after Star Wars Battlefront, and that wasn't even as bad as Monster Hunter.
  • lolwhoopslolwhoops Member Full Members
    edited March 2011
    Man Aya was a cool character, I liked running around as her in PE2 shotgunning the beasts down and saving people. She always struck me as a woman who just kinda got thrown some super powers and felt compelled to do something about the dangerous situation. I thought she was cool.

    Did they really go out of their way to take away her butt kicking coolness? :o

    edit- in particular I mean she used to throw friggin' nukes at things but now she's gotta take over people to do good?
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  • AirikAirik Member Full Members
    edited March 2011
    Nyx said:
    I admit, the plot has gotten a bit better about being less misogynistic, that was until the beginning of chapter four started.
    Spoiler:
    Maeda is terrifying and he really does sexually objectify Aya. Ya don't say things to a women like "I never tire of seeing you overdive." and then go "hehehehe."
    . I have a huge problem with Aya's character just outright taking this type of objectification and not SAYING anything. That is something I am NOT okay with. Because no woman (in this case) should ever act like it's acceptable to be treated as an object.

    I can agree in some ways about why there's no level of equality in the case of Aya's character, especially now that I am further (considering chapter one doesn't paint a good first impression at all, but that was all SE allowed me to discuss). It's interesting, but the localization makes it borderline misogynistic in spots which was what I was getting at. I don't like this portrayal of the character. There's definitely a level of apathy, but then you have scenes like the beginning of chapter 4 that really turns the level of apathy of getting the mission done and defeating Babel on its head.

    And really, I'll come out and say it. I really dislike the inclusion of Aya losing her clothes in this game. I do, I find it so unnecessary and unrealistic in HOW she loses her clothes. I feel like it's a bit overboard considering I have to see Aya's naked butt in my face throughout my entire playthrough. I also find it kind of disgusting that when Aya is choked to death by a Snatcher, you get her hanging to death with her butt in your face as the game over screen. Was there any real need for that?
    Spoiler:
    I felt Maeda was actually making fun of the type of Japanese boys - and in turn some of the stranger western otaku - who are quite the pervert. You just know some of these boys were thinking exactly the same thing, but Maeda just comes out and says it. It was SE making fun of their fanbase more than trying to degrade Aya. Though admittedly he never really came across as a pervert in PE1, and Aya speaks highly of him in PE2, so I'm not sure where that character development came from.

    Anyway, all I can say is that while there are reasons why the game does it, Aya's character doesn't really get any better. She's not really the "same" character, as you can tell, and I'm not too fond of the changes either. Also, the great power of plot will explain everything at the end of why she acts so differently. I think it will end up either making more sense or making you throw the game down in anger


    For the last bit: I think the idea of clothes being beat up in general is a neat idea, but almost always horribly implemented.. A good was to use it would be, for example, in western RPGs with armor getting worn down and you have to repair it. As your armor gets worn down and its quality drops, you could see it get dented and beat up. A good hit on the arm might make some of the leather straps get torn or worn down. I could completely get behind something like that. Or even a few holes in Aya's clothes here and there from claws and whatnot. In PE1 Aya could wear full body armor under her clothes, and PE2 Aya could wear some bulky pieces (that were never shown on her model) as well. Why couldn't they have had her external clothes rip and instead shown body armor underneath?
    But really, they went too far with it.
  • cidsacidsa Member Full Members
    edited March 2011
    I don't want to get into this hugely here because it's just not the place for it so here's a good writeup over at Borderhouse: http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=3635

    If you want to play it, that's your perogative, but I'm not going to give Squeenix a single cent for this crapola.
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited March 2011
    So you know, there is pretty good customization in this game Nyx, you just have to stick with it and start using and fusing DNA chips. Also, there is a BIG reason why Aya acts like she does in this game. The ending makes that painfully clear (including a very sad moment complete with the main theme playing). I'm debating on whether or not to add the reason here and just spoiler it, or leave it to you in order to find out at the end. Also, don't be surprised if you find the story to be crap (especially the end), since alot of fans seem to agree with that. Extra note, be sure to beat the game twice. There's a good reason for doing that.
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  • LordKaiserLordKaiser Under watcher Full Members
    edited March 2011
    After watching the trailer what I didn't like is Aya's new personality. Where's her tough woman personality? I thought she was like the female protagonists of Apple Seed, Ghost in the shell and Iria. The reason I disliked Blood +.....
    Never buy a game published by D3 Publisher that is not WKCII. They cheated on their fans by releasing a game that they didn't support not even for a year and they released a rushed translation.
  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited March 2011
    DarkRPGMaster said:
    start using and fusing DNA chips.
    Is there any non-port Square-Enix game on the PSP that doesn't contain an ability system centered around taking Item A and mashing it with Item B to yield Item C?
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • NyxNyx Staff Girly Girl RPGamer Staff
    edited March 2011
    DarkRPGMaster said:
    So you know, there is pretty good customization in this game Nyx, you just have to stick with it and start using and fusing DNA chips. Also, there is a BIG reason why Aya acts like she does in this game. The ending makes that painfully clear (including a very sad moment complete with the main theme playing). I'm debating on whether or not to add the reason here and just spoiler it, or leave it to you in order to find out at the end. Also, don't be surprised if you find the story to be crap (especially the end), since alot of fans seem to agree with that. Extra note, be sure to beat the game twice. There's a good reason for doing that.

    Sadly, with this review copy I won't have time to beat it twice since Square Enix has a strict deadline that I absolutely have to follow. I've been sticking with the customization (I'm on chapter four at the moment) and it's pretty nifty to play with, that's for sure. I can't say I'm enjoying the story, but I never did play PE2 (too expensive to buy and I never got around to it) so I feel like I'm missing some things. Right now the story feels like a convoluted mess, and even though I've been researching details on PE1 and 2 to refresh my brain, I can see why the plot has been offending PE fans. I sadly had the ending spoiled to me by a friend who played the game already in Japanese, but I still can't say I'm a fan of what they've done to the character.

    The review won't be going up until March 25th, but once I finish the game I have to send it out almost immediately, but I'll be honest, even after I finish this game, I probably will never play it again or go out and buy it.
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited March 2011
    I'll end up getting it, if only so I can read it all and then complain to SE about how they need to get their groove back when it comes to storytelling. Cause Toriyama isn't that good, TBH.
    shoptroll said:
    Is there any non-port Square-Enix game on the PSP that doesn't contain an ability system centered around taking Item A and mashing it with Item B to yield Item C?
    Star Ocean: First Departure, Star Ocean: Second Evolution, Dissidia: Final Fantasy, and Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth.
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  • reionprementereionpremente Member Full Members
    edited March 2011
    Nyx said:
    Sadly, with this review copy I won't have time to beat it twice since Square Enix has a strict deadline that I absolutely have to follow. I've been sticking with the customization (I'm on chapter four at the moment) and it's pretty nifty to play with, that's for sure. I can't say I'm enjoying the story, but I never did play PE2 (too expensive to buy and I never got around to it) so I feel like I'm missing some things. Right now the story feels like a convoluted mess, and even though I've been researching details on PE1 and 2 to refresh my brain, I can see why the plot has been offending PE fans. I sadly had the ending spoiled to me by a friend who played the game already in Japanese, but I still can't say I'm a fan of what they've done to the character.

    The review won't be going up until March 25th, but once I finish the game I have to send it out almost immediately, but I'll be honest, even after I finish this game, I probably will never play it again or go out and buy it.

    FINALLY! Someone other than me who never played PE 2. I had the same problem... when it came out, PE 2 was A) too expensive and B) I couldn't find it ANYWHERE. Now the only place at the moment to even FIND it is eBay. That's a sad tale... I really want that... and Thousand Arms... why in the world hasn't Sony put that on PSN yet?

    Oh well... I'll probably want to at least try The Third Birthday. At least, it's almost worth playing.
  • reionprementereionpremente Member Full Members
    edited March 2011
    reionpremente said:
    FINALLY! Someone other than me who never played PE 2. I had the same problem... when it came out, PE 2 was A) too expensive and B) I couldn't find it ANYWHERE. Now the only place at the moment to even FIND it is eBay. That's a sad tale... I really want that... and Thousand Arms... why in the world hasn't Sony put that on PSN yet?

    Oh well... I'll probably want to at least try The Third Birthday. At least, it's almost worth playing.

    At least there are fortunately OTHER RPG's to worry about now. Hopefully when DA 2 comes out tomorrow, it'll give us something GOOD to work with. Just PLEASE, don't tell me the only reason they're doing XIII-2 is solely because of Lightning. If that's all it's about, they've just about killed my interest in it already.
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited March 2011
    reionpremente said:
    FINALLY! Someone other than me who never played PE 2. I had the same problem... when it came out, PE 2 was A) too expensive and B) I couldn't find it ANYWHERE. Now the only place at the moment to even FIND it is eBay. That's a sad tale... I really want that... and Thousand Arms... why in the world hasn't Sony put that on PSN yet?

    Oh well... I'll probably want to at least try The Third Birthday. At least, it's almost worth playing.

    From what I've seen of a friend playing an imported version, it's worth it for the gameplay at the most. The story...I think it's universally accepted as being mediocre. Oh, by the way, just found out that Parasite Eve 1 is coming out to the PSN in a few weeks. Hopefully PE2 will follow suit and you'll be able to play it.
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  • NyxNyx Staff Girly Girl RPGamer Staff
    edited March 2011
    DarkRPGMaster said:
    From what I've seen of a friend playing an imported version, it's worth it for the gameplay at the most. The story...I think it's universally accepted as being mediocre. Oh, by the way, just found out that Parasite Eve 1 is coming out to the PSN in a few weeks. Hopefully PE2 will follow suit and you'll be able to play it.

    I admit, I enjoyed the gameplay for the most part minus the game's camera which can get pretty god awful in spots. I really thought the story was mediocre, and the ending justified it more so. In fact the ending really was a "HUH?!" moment that just seemed... weird. But I was super cool with the whole overdive game mechanics. It was pretty nifty, and the customization wasn't too bad either.

    This is really going to be one of those games where I can really see it having some mixed opinions. :(
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