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RPGCast - Episode 193: "Ride Zee 1080p Shoopuf?"

sabin1001sabin1001 Man vs. Slime, the fourth type of conflictMadison, WIAdministrators
edited September 2011 in Latest Updates
RPGCast - Episode 193: "Ride Zee 1080p Shoopuf?"

We settle the question of which Final Fantasy deserves an HD remake the most. Alex gives us his impressions of the highly anticipated Xenoblade: Chronicles. Then Minecraft punishes Roy for daring to support its development.

You can find the links to all our stories on delicious: http://delicious.com/rpgamer/193

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Comments

  • PawsPaws BEARSONA RPGamer Staff
    edited September 2011
    LOL, you couldn't resist the cute pressure of noodle, could you?
  • Sir ErdrickSir Erdrick Overlord Full Members
    edited September 2011
    I think Noodle names a lot of the shows actually...

    Anyways onto the meat and potatoes! The grand and great battle between Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy X!

    As of my current poke around on amazon.com, one can obtain a brand new copy of Final Fantasy X from Amazon for $22.79 USD, there are 148 used copies starting at $3.27, 16 collectible starting at $17.99 and 28 new starting at $18.78. For Final Fantasy VII, there are 11 new copies starting at $169.95, 161 used copies starting at $35.00 and 37 collectible copies starting at $23.00 (note that the one for $23.00 has a disc 1 that is non functioning, the one after that is $41.95).

    Final Fantasy VII has sold over 10 million copies worldwide with almost 6 million of those sales coming from North America (Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20080801053240/http://na.square-enix.com/e306/titles/ccff7/). Final Fantasy X has sold around 6.6 million copies (Source: http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/finalfantasyx2/news_6086686.html). Final Fantasy VII sold more than 100,000 copies in the first two weeks it was available for purchase on the PSN (Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24162).

    Final Fantasy VII is a game that, in my opinion, needs to have work done to it. The translation is near unreadable in some sections ('This guy are sick' et al.), the field models are laughable (Cloud looks a bit like Popeye after eating his spinach) and navigating the dungeons and towns, at least in my opinion, is a little bit clunky at times. On the other hand X still looks respectable in the graphics department and I didn't notice that many localization issues, one boy who wanted to be a blitzball aside. However, that being said, the lip sync left much to be desired and I didn't care much for the voice acting in the game.

    From a personal standpoint, I have not enjoyed the Final Fantasy games since Final Fantasy VII. Now this could just be the nostalgia filter at work, but, I have found the story lines since VII to be dull, trite and sometimes insulting to your intelligence (The orphanage reveal from Final Fantasy VIII really sticks out in my mind). I'm not much of a fan of the way the art direction has moved in the series (Final Fantasy X's characters had 'interesting' design choices). The one thing that bugs me most (and this is a complaint I have about all games and not just Final Fantasy) is the move towards more cinematic experiences. I just want to play a game not watch cutscenes!

    That being said, I don't hate the fact that Final Fantasy X is getting a remake, I just hate the fact that it isn't the one that everyone has been clamoring for! It smacks of being out of touch with their fanbase, which is not a problem with just Square-Enix (Nintendo (see Operation Rainfall) and Capcom (Mega Man Legend 3) are also guilty of this). Fans have been clamoring for a remake of Final Fantasy VII since the PS2 era.
  • ShayminShaymin The Gratitude Pokemon Full Members
    edited September 2011
    The two dominant reasons FFX is getting remastered right now:
    1) The 10th anniversary (I believe this was glossed over, and isn't XHD coming this year?)
    2) The fan demand will probably be stoked if they plug this survey that calls FFX the greatest game of all time* (ironically, FFVII is #2 on that list).

    * as voted by Famitsu readers

    The problem is that damn 2005 tech demo which really started this whole remake-mania (see comparison video here), I dare say, looks better than XIII does in motion and every other target video Sony trotted out that year hasn't been matched by the games that ended up releasing (Killzone 2, Motorstorm). I have to ask if the demand is for an FFVII remake, or a remake that looks *that* good.

    Of course, there's the long-standing rumour that the FFVII remake is done and is being trotted out as a last-ditch effort in case SE ever faces down bankruptcy...

    Edit: I'm calling the 3DSXL for March '13, because they always try to get 2 Christmases out of the handheld. A Phat->Lite timeline would be May of next year.
    "The flowers all over its body burst into bloom if it is lovingly hugged and senses gratitude."
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  • zockroachzockroach Member Full Members
    edited September 2011
    This is a very intense episode!
    FULL TIME AWESOME LIFE!
  • PawsPaws BEARSONA RPGamer Staff
    edited September 2011
    A point I didn't make on the podcast, and I don't know how I forgot to, is that even if FFVII sold better -- FFX's numbers are NOTHING to sneeze at. As far as I can tell, the 6 million does not include the International version sales, while the 10 million number for FFVII includes PSN sales. In regards to the cost of a physical copy, that's due to a mix of age and collection value of the non-GH version. Non-GH copies of FFX are worth more than GH copies as well, fwiw. It's also a testament to the value of unopened (not just new) games -- I recently sold a game on ebay for just shy of 100$ because it was sealed. Opened copy worth? Under 20.

    Shaymin: It's an interesting reflection of the fandom in general when a tech demo gets people this riled for this long. How do people forget there was a tech demo for FFVI on the N64?
  • zockroachzockroach Member Full Members
    edited September 2011
    Yes, it is okay for Sqeenuts to do a X remake instead of a VII. As Quin said, X would be easier to give 'dress up' into HD. VII would take a ground up rebuild. The original code could not be used as a base (maybe if it got ported to 3DS?) because the polygon count is too low and that would be an issue that would have to be addressed in order to pull the game out of one of the ugliest era's in existence. I'm stoked on the X remake. Can't wait to play that ish on my HD tv.

    I'm really digging all of the yelling going on! :D
    FULL TIME AWESOME LIFE!
  • noodlenoodle Kirby: El Presidente RPGamer Staff
    edited September 2011
    i tried getting the title to "ride zee 1080p tidus" but sabin drew the line there.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • QuinQuin これはメタです RPGamer Staff
    edited September 2011
    Paws said:
    How do people forget there was a tech demo for FFVI on the N64?
    Wait, WHAT?

    *WIKI*

    [QUOTE=Wiki]Final Fantasy VI: The Interactive CG Game (also known as the Final Fantasy SGI demo, or Final Fantasy x (not related to the actual 10th game in the Final Fantasy series, Final Fantasy X) was a short demonstration produced by Square using characters and settings from Final Fantasy VI. Produced using new Silicon Graphics, Inc. (SGI) Onyx workstations acquired by Square, the demo was Square's first foray into 3D graphics, and many assumed that it was a precursor to a new Final Fantasy title for the Nintendo 64 video game console, which also used SGI hardware.[15] Square, however, had not yet committed to Nintendo's console at the time of the demo's production, and much of the technology demonstrated in the demo was later put to use in the rendering of full motion video sequences for Final Fantasy VII and subsequent games for the PlayStation. The demo itself featured Terra Branford, Locke Cole, and Shadow in a series of battles. The game was controlled largely through mouse gestures: for example, moving the cursor in the shape of a star would summon a dragon to attack.[15]

    ...

    What is this I don't even
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    befriend (v.): to use mecha-class beam weaponry to inflict grievous bodily harm on a target in the process of proving the validity of your belief system.
  • moenkimoenki New Member Full Members
    edited September 2011
    Hmm... I'd like to see remakes of lots old Square games... FFVI being the top: something like IV, maybe even on 3DS. And personally, I always liked FFVII, and I think I wouldn't like an HD remake of it. Not that it would be a poor business decision, or wouldn't be a great fan service, but unless they change absolutely nothing but the quality of the graphics, I'd be disappointed and feel like they ruined it. I also don't see a point to spending time and money on a X remake, just rerelease the thing as is as a portable download title or something (XII too).
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited September 2011
    FFVII doesn't need remaking IMO, it has held up much better than FFX.
    Lusipurr.com: One man's monument to himself!
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  • RetrovertigoRetrovertigo Member Full Members
    edited September 2011
    Is there a proper breakdown of sales anywhere for FF7? I seem to recall plenty of stories when it launched, where it was selling like crazy (probably because of the graphics) but that it ended up being one of the most returned games of all time.
  • Just DougJust Doug Member Full Members
    edited September 2011
    I was surprised when I saw the title of yesterday's podcast! I helped name a show, yay! XD *hi-fives with Noodle*

    But yeah, I think both sides of the argument had a valid point. FFVII is what there's been a long-expressed demand for... but it's also a daunting undertaking. The precise amount of time and money SE could take to do a FFVII remake aside (i.e. whether it would require a 2 year development cycle or a 5 year development cycle), however expensive it would be, the fan expectations alone would probably be intimidating to Nomura &co. I had forgotten that FFX's tenth (X!) anniversary was a main reason for this FFX upgrade. It makes sense, really, and it is true that it is possibly the easiest SD-era FF to give an HD makeover considering it's at the cusp of the PS2 era (as far as FFs go). I'm no programmer, but it seems sensible to me that a PS2 game being made over for HD would not need its guts rearranged to the degree that a PSX game would. I can't say I know that to be true, but it would make sense if it that is the case. The effort that would be needed to redo the visuals for each game...FFVII would ultimately require the creation of an entire new set of field models from start to finish--probably battle models too...and a bunch of other stuff I'm sure. FFX would require somewhat less work updating its assets, I would think.

    All that said, I'm not as keen on FFX HD as I would be a FFVII remake. I can pop in FFX right now and enjoy it and the graphics wouldn't bother me one bit. FFVII on the other hand I really feel the years and they have not been kind...I climbed Shinra tower just the other night on my PSN copy and Palmer about bisected himself when he threw himself onto the tabletop at the Shinra meeting Cloud &co. eavesdrop on. That was the sort of moment that shows how inadequate FFVII's graphics are in modern times. I can shrug off the graphics most of the time but it does bug me at specific moments like that because it's distracting.

    While it might be unfair/irrational to resent a FFX remake for not being a FFVII remake, I must admit that my first thought when I heard of the FFX remake was about the difficulty of a FFVII remake. I just couldn't help but link the two in my thoughts. If that's the norm... FFX HD put a dash of salt in the wounds of people that feel bitter over their dashed hopes for a FFVII remake. I'm not that rabid a fan myself. Personally, I don't mind either way. FFVII was, despite its shortcomings, a game that reigned in its own era. It had its time, just as FFVI and CT reigned in their era, and so on. That's enough for me, any remakes that have come along have been mere bonus. Additionally (this is my last thought, I promise), to an extent, the amount that I enjoyed FFVII hinged on the times as well as my age (my teenage self ate up angst and mindscrew and fauxlosophy--my college self and beyond...not so much). Even with current gen graphics and a top quality translation it just might not be the same.
    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
    Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Shakespeare, Hamlet Act I, Scene 5

    "You need mad bank for lobster cash." - Sabin1001
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited September 2011
    Is there a proper breakdown of sales anywhere for FF7? I seem to recall plenty of stories when it launched, where it was selling like crazy (probably because of the graphics) but that it ended up being one of the most returned games of all time.
    It was probably one of the most returned games of all time simply due to the fact that it was one of the most purchased games of all time - up to that point.

    It also brought in many outsiders to the JRPG genre, a good proportion of which may have been dismayed to find menu-driven combat.

    I have no trouble in believing that there were many returns. Sadly, sales figures appear to be much less nuanced back in '97 - so it's hard to get a clearer picture.
    Lusipurr.com: One man's monument to himself!
    9 out of 10 Dentists recomend UNDERBOOB!
  • WhoompWhoomp Smorgasbord Full Members
    edited September 2011
    I got the impression that what Squareenix is doing with FFX is not remaking but as with all the other PS2 to PS3 conversions are just upgrading the resolution of the textures, which are probably already there. If it was such an big undertaking then it would be suicide for companies to include entire trilogies for a budget price as with the Prince of Persia or Sly HD collections. So unless they are rebuilding the entire game the comparison between this and a FFVII remake is not really valid since this is an easy way to cash in on people who otherwise would have bought it used which, naturally, don't render any profit for SE. It's the deluxe variant of simply releasing it as a downloadable on PSN or XBLA, something they already have done with FFVII.
  • moenkimoenki New Member Full Members
    edited September 2011
    I've just decided that I would buy an FFX remake if they did one thing to it: get rid of Tidus. He ruined it the first time and shouldn't be allowed back. Do it, Square Enix, you know you want to...
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited September 2011
    @Whoomp: Square Enix themselves called it a remake, but I don't believe them. I imagine that it will probably be a very polished upscale though, and I hope that they can solve at least some of that game's presentational issues, such as VA mistakes, lip synch issues, and the continual LOD changes in the character models.
    Lusipurr.com: One man's monument to himself!
    9 out of 10 Dentists recomend UNDERBOOB!
  • HyphyKezzyHyphyKezzy The Best Full Members
    edited September 2011
    When I heard the news about FF X the fact that they were gonna pretty it up was really just a nice bonus. For me the real reason I'm happy about it is that it will be playable on the Vita and I hope they do the same for X-2 and XII. I already have I through IX available to take with me anywhere pretty easily which is awesome and to me VII doesn't look too bad on the little psp screen anyway so I prefer them to expand the number of games available to me in a portable format over making those already available better looking. I will admit I might feel differently about it if I owned a PS3 though. HD FF VII on my tv would be pretty cool.
    Reads street English and speaks in collegiate - Ras Kass
  • RosestormRosestorm Host of The Sectorcast Full Members
    edited September 2011
    I hope they do the same for Dragon Quest VIII
    Deputy Editor of Gamersector.com
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  • 7thCircle7thCircle RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited September 2011
    Rosestorm said:
    I hope they do the same for Dragon Quest VIII
    But Dragon Quest VIII has no textures to upgrade.
    The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions.
  • OyashiroOyashiro NEEDS MOAR UNDERBOOB! Full Members
    edited September 2011
    This has to be the most entertaining RPGCast EVER!
    Give me Underboob, or give me death!
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    "As a gaming enthusiast, people who carry a pro-hacker flag for selfish self-entitled reasons and willfully ignore the damage that rampant piracy does to developers as well as hardware producers don't deserve to enjoy the games and systems that these companies have poured their souls into to produce."

    "A late game is only late until it ships. A bad game is bad until the end of time." ~ David Jaffe
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited September 2011
    There are a multitude of issues with an FFVII remake.

    The first, and perhaps most important issue, was mentioned earlier. People only wanted a remake because of that PS3 tech demo, and as a result, that's the bench mark in many people's mind. Considering many of those early tech demos turned out to be smoke and mirrors (as many "tech demos" tend to be with new hardware), nothing Square Enix does will ever, ever be enough.

    Secondly, Chris is making a classic mistake - he's assuming that the most vocal fans are the most fans, or the most important fans. Now obviously a company ideally wants to make their most loyal consumers happy, but as Deus Ex: Human Revolution and DmC have taught us, the most vocal fans are the ones who are completely incapable of being sated. Between the conflicting nature of fandom demands and the unreasonable bar addressed above, SE has nothing to gain and everything to lose with an FFVII remake. Not only that, but most people would probably be happy just to see Square Enix produce good, new games again, something they've not been doing reliably since Sakaguchi left.

    This leads me to the next issue. The company has far bigger problems than frothing fanboys who'll never be satisfied anyway - they have a busted MMO, games taking 6+ years to develop on average, and a chilling fear of doing anything that isn't Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest related. Hell, part of why they bought Eidos was to get a foothold in the west that they've clearly been losing over the years because their only two major franchises aren't as big outside Japan as they once were. Well, that and Eidos only needs 2-3 years to make a damn fine game. Of COURSE SE is going to choose the quick up-resolution cash-grab over the monumental project that's doomed to failure. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if the FFX port (and that's JUST what it is) takes them years to do. It seems that they take way too long to do even the slightest of things.

    Of course, if they really wanted to troll everyone as Anna suspects, they'd just have Eidos Montreal do the FFVII remake. Oh imagine the nerd rage. Makes me hard just thinking about it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
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  • omegabyteomegabyte He's just this guy, you know? RPGamer Staff
    edited September 2011
    Of course, if they really wanted to troll everyone as Anna suspects, they'd just have Eidos Montreal do the FFVII remake. Oh imagine the nerd rage. Makes me hard just thinking about it.
    Tifa would totally end up looking like Lara Croft.
    "It's okay to fail as long as you learn that you failed!" - Neptune, Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory
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  • PawsPaws BEARSONA RPGamer Staff
    edited September 2011
    ...She doesn't now...?
  • RosestormRosestorm Host of The Sectorcast Full Members
    edited September 2011
    7thCircle said:
    But Dragon Quest VIII has no textures to upgrade.
    I don't care about an HD remake, I want it on the Vita.
    Deputy Editor of Gamersector.com
    Check out my podcast Sectorcast, http://gamersector.com/podcast/sectorcast
    A lie would be considered the truth if only more people believed it.
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited September 2011
    7thCircle said:
    But Dragon Quest VIII has no textures to upgrade.
    But there are of course resolutions to upgrade.
    Lusipurr.com: One man's monument to himself!
    9 out of 10 Dentists recomend UNDERBOOB!
  • Just DougJust Doug Member Full Members
    edited September 2011
    I totally forgot about the ability to play the PSN-released PSX-era FFs on PSP (how many more "PS" abbreviations can I fit into one sentence!?). The dorky models would look somewhat less painful on a PSP screen. I play my PSN FFVII~IX just on my TV... after all, that's how I played them originally (on a different TV of course--the one I have now is so much shinier). Guess I'm just a creature of habit!
    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
    Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Shakespeare, Hamlet Act I, Scene 5

    "You need mad bank for lobster cash." - Sabin1001
  • AzilisAzilis Member Full Members
    edited September 2011
    I couldn't care less about the FF remakes, so I'll avoid that quagmire and dive into another one. Oblivion mods!

    The main one I'd recommend is FCOM: Convergence. It's actually a collection of several of the best mods for the game, so the install process is pretty complicated, but it's worth it. Trust me, you don't want to be playing Oblivion with only a minor character-leveling mod. There's just too much wrong with the game as released by Bethesda.

    If the install process scares you too much, Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items is the one absolutely essential mod to install, as it fixes a lot of the problems created by Oblivion's system of levelling everything to the player's level. It really is worth it to go the whole nine yards, though, and go through the install process for FCOM. Read through their website and this install guide and you shouldn't have much of a problem. It is complicated, but again, it's worth it. Your playthrough of the game will be much, much better than Manny's was.



    One last quagmire to wade through . . . grammar nitpicking. I first noticed this about a month ago, and ever since then, every time it's repeated on the podcast (mainly by Anna and Quin) I have to suppress the urge to stop listening. For AmaDEUS (thanks Zoltan), stop doubling your verbs! "The thing is, is that . . . " "The funny thing was, is that . . . " You only need one is/was in there, not two. Stop it now!
  • PawsPaws BEARSONA RPGamer Staff
    edited September 2011
    I blame being French. Also being constantly interrupted. However, after listening back to this episode you're right, I'm getting worse, so I'll try to curtail that. Chances are good I'll forget while yelling down Chris though.
  • KisakiProjectKisakiProject Member Full Members
    edited September 2011
    Can Chris get mad more often? It makes for fun listening.
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited September 2011
    SiliconNooB said:
    FFVII doesn't need remaking IMO, it has held up much better than FFX.
    Man that is a hilarious yarn, I needed that. Thank you sir!
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