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Class of Heroes II Kickstarter Interview with Victor Ireland

MacstormMacstorm Ysy St.Administrators
edited April 2012 in Latest Updates
Victor Ireland of Working Designs fame is heading up a Kickstarter to make the upcoming Class of Heroes II localization as deluxe as possible. What that means exactly is discussed in detail here.

Interview
"The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
Twitter @FinalMacstorm
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Comments

  • Confessor RahlConfessor Rahl Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Based on the progress so far... nnnnoooootttt gonna happen
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    www.powerlinemag.com

    "I remember back when FF9 was coming out. People were rejoicing because it was actually a fantasy game and not a sci-fi game like 7 and 8. It's especially hilarious given modern context, with everyone wanking themselves to dehydration at the thought of an FF7 remake." - Masterchief
  • RalsuRalsu Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    I want to support this so bad. Second job no-jitsu!
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2012
    I would support this if there were say, a $30 option just to get a plain old physical copy and not a special edition.
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Oh he's so smarmy...
    VI: Again, like with the digital only edition, it would unbalance the financials of this Kickstarter and put us in a situation where we would potentially lose money making less Deluxe Packs at a higher price per unit. Also, we heard about some fans that wanted regular editions of WD games, and when we finally gave them what they wanted with Growlanser Generations in both versions, we got complaints we didn't make enough Deluxe Packs. The demand was stronger for the Deluxe than the regular, and we under produced it. And, back to minimums, we couldn't go back for a short fill-in run because the cost of goods goes way up the less you make. So that was that, and lesson learned for me. I just do Deluxe Packs at a reasonable price for everyone.
    The man still doesn't get it. 9/10 people want the game, not something they can eBay 5 years later.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • EmeraldSuzakuEmeraldSuzaku Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Wheels said:
    I would support this if there were say, a $30 option just to get a plain old physical copy and not a special edition.
    This.

    As it stands, the game will cost whatever it costs, PLUS whatever I would happen to pledge, unless I pledged the requisite $59 for a copy. The only way to not end up spending an equivalent amount to the CE anyway is to not contribute to the kickstarter in the first place. Which is the problem.
  • storino03storino03 Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    You are missing the point. People loved WD for the games, but also for the deluxe editions they put out. They are catering towards those who loved the deluxe editions and how elaborate they were. I don't mind paying $100 (the pledge tier I chose) to support this company, even if the game itself turns out to be questionable.

    Also, since part of the donations will be taxed and not to mention: If the game is pledged at $500,000, and then only $350-400k end up following through with payment, what would they do? Cancel it because it hasn't reached the full amount? A lot of questions that are still up in the air.

    I do hope they make it somehow...
    www.backloggery.com/storino03
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    storino03 said:
    You are missing the point. People loved WD for the games, but also for the deluxe editions they put out. They are catering towards those who loved the deluxe editions and how elaborate they were. I don't mind paying $100 (the pledge tier I chose) to support this company, even if the game itself turns out to be questionable.

    Also, since part of the donations will be taxed and not to mention: If the game is pledged at $500,000, and then only $350-400k end up following through with payment, what would they do? Cancel it because it hasn't reached the full amount? A lot of questions that are still up in the air.

    I do hope they make it somehow...
    Yep, because only releasing stupidly expensive editions and spending so much time on said fluff that they barely released games at all didn't help kill the original WD, oh no....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited April 2012
    storino03 said:
    Also, since part of the donations will be taxed and not to mention: If the game is pledged at $500,000, and then only $350-400k end up following through with payment, what would they do? Cancel it because it hasn't reached the full amount? A lot of questions that are still up in the air.
    People had better be factoring this into their goals, as Kickstarter is up front about it.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • freykinfreykin Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    He definitely does need to add in a tier which is the "buy just the game" tier. I went ahead and put down the $59 in support of Vic from all the good times he's given me in the past (hell, I STILL play arc the lad 2 every now and then), but without a simple i want this game tier, it isn't going to make it.
  • storino03storino03 Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    MasterChief said:
    Yep, because only releasing stupidly expensive editions and spending so much time on said fluff that they barely released games at all didn't help kill the original WD, oh no....
    They released quite a lot of games in the US. Why can't a game company focus on certain aspects of the catering towards a group of gaming fans and not just churn out game after game. It's that mentality when game companies lose their focus and what made said companies unique.
    www.backloggery.com/storino03
  • steamwolfsteamwolf New Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    MasterChief said:
    Oh he's so smarmy...



    The man still doesn't get it. 9/10 people want the game, not something they can eBay 5 years later.

    From what I have read, you can still get the digital version of the game which doesn't have any bells and whistles...soooo...why can't people do that? If they don't care about any physical extras, then having a physical copy of the game doesn't matter unless...you're a collector. Which means you would want the special extras to increase your collector's value, whether you wish to sell it later or not. If you do not wish to keep it for the collector's value anyway, digital or physical does not matter.


    [QUOTE=MasterChief]Yep, because only releasing stupidly expensive editions and spending so much time on said fluff that they barely released games at all didn't help kill the original WD, oh no....

    Uh...WD released a game every year from 1991 to 2004 with the grand exception of 2003...http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/company/11304.html and they didn't start adding "fluff" until Lunar 1 on the PSX, which sold 0.27 million units in North America despite said "fluff". Japan did not have "fluff" for their version and it only sold 0.06 million in Japan...the North America PSX version ALSO outsold the original Japanese Saturn version of the game...http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Lunar%3A+Silver+Star+Story I don't know what you believe constitutes high frequency of game releases over a thirteen year span, but a game year is something most companies whether they be publishers or developers (or both), do not achieve very often. Usually, the larger companies like EA tend to have higher frequency of releases like that. And considering how niche jrpgs and anime-inspired games are (even back on the PSX) it's quite amazing that they made Lunar 1 outsell even the Japanese copies...so I guess that was just dumb luck and has nothing to do at all with the "fluff" they put in the package, right? Who wants any of that? Sales figures don't mean anything and don't tell companies that people want anything at all despite more people buying, right? People buy things when they hate them don't they?

    It sounds to me like you should spend less time on negative myths, and more time on positive truths. Just a thought, it might make you feel better about life.
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    storino03 said:
    They released quite a lot of games in the US. Why can't a game company focus on certain aspects of the catering towards a group of gaming fans and not just churn out game after game. It's that mentality when game companies lose their focus and what made said companies unique.
    Yes but as a business model it's terrible. The increased amount of CE also requires more studio time, more production values which in turn require higher cost. Add in the limited release schedule (maybe 1 - 2 games a year) even if they combined multiple games would mean they are actually in turn making less of a profit, which in turn means they can't higher as many people or buy as many licenses, which eventually leads down to the path of well .... bankruptcy.
    I am bad and that is good, I will never be good and that's not bad, there's no one I'd rather be than me - Wreck-it-Ralph

    27 years of gaming and still going strong
    and now a Proud if slightly annoyed Father :D
  • KeldarusKeldarus RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2012
    Maybe I'm old or in the minority, but I don't have space for delux edition 'junk' anymore. That's what it boils down to is it's junk.. those standees and finger puppets from the PS1 lunar games are all junk. At one time I thought it was cool to have all that junk, but now it's in a box somewhere in the basement or garage. I don't need or want most of that stuff, I don't have the room or desire to have it.. I have enough junk in my house that accumulates from everyday living. I don't need silly videogame junk that gets thrown into a delux edition because they can charge more. I just need the game and an occassional art book or on the rare occassion soundtrack. That's all I need anymore. The giant dragon statue from Skyrim is cool I guess, but it's so not practical and doesn't fit anywhere in the house, plus the 90 premium on it is silly, well now it's a 40$ premium much more pallattable, but still it's huge and not practical.. if it were maybe a 6" pewter one I'd be more inclined to buy it, but that's not really the point.. I don't need 'junk' I'll take an art book or soundtrack, but that's really all I need and or want.

    In this case, the game doesn't look all that interesting, so I'm passing anyway, but I'm not paying 60$ for a PSP game no matter how 'cool' the bonus junk becomes. Plus I don't want to support Vic's bad business plans with overpriced 'junk' at huge premiums, see the fall of Working Designs.

    Just my ramblings today.


    -Kel
  • LegendaryZoltanLegendaryZoltan Releaser of Heavy Metal Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Is it just me, or is there a really important question not being asked here? Maybe I'm just ignorant (educate me if I am) but I thought kickstarter was for people who have projects but don't have money. Isn't Double Fine a pretty large game company? If they are, then where do they come off trying be kick-started by fans? Tell me what the hell is going on, you guys! :)
  • WhoompWhoomp Smorgasbord Full Members
    edited April 2012
    LegendaryZoltan said:
    Is it just me, or is there a really important question not being asked here? Maybe I'm just ignorant (educate me if I am) but I thought kickstarter was for people who have projects but don't have money. Isn't Double Fine a pretty large game company? If they are, then where do they come off trying be kick-started by fans? Tell me what the hell is going on, you guys! :)
    Kickstarter is really just a way to get funds without going through regular channels (ie publishers) and instead appealing to fans and their interests. Even if you are a relatively large company it could be hard to get clearance for a smaller project if you aren't already tied to a major publisher and even then their interests are not always in line with yours. As developers they get the short end of a publishing deal, just look at Obsidian and how they got shafted with Fallout New Vegas. Also, it's not that a company like inXile or Double Fine have spare money to just spread around on risky vanity projects, they are just in the size-range that they can only proceed with projects if they have a steady fund and without publishers Kickstarter is a good alternative.
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    TheAnimeMan said:
    Yes but as a business model it's terrible. The increased amount of CE also requires more studio time, more production values which in turn require higher cost. Add in the limited release schedule (maybe 1 - 2 games a year) even if they combined multiple games would mean they are actually in turn making less of a profit, which in turn means they can't higher as many people or buy as many licenses, which eventually leads down to the path of well .... bankruptcy.
    This, pretty much. I'd rather have sweet and awesome games be the focus than embossed manuals and fancy boxes. WD focused on collectability to the exclusion of all else, and turned nearly every project of theirs into multi-year endeavors, something that was absurd for what they localized - not made, localized. This is why Atlus and XSEED are doing well: They only do CEs on very important releases like Persona or Ys, and they don't try to shove all their games into an uneconomical packages the way WD did with Arc the Lad or Growlanser.

    As for how many games WD released, from 1986 to 2005 they released 29 games.
    By comparison, XSEED games has released 35 games on their own, in addition to eight during their partnership with Marvelous Entertainment and one upcoming game with Nintendo, namely The Last Story, all from 2004 to now. I don't think any of us can say that XSEED is a bad company. They just focus on games and not on the extraneous nonsense that obsessed WD. It also helped that XSEED has yet to burn any bridges in the Japanese development community, even Marvelous, who screwed them over several times during the period of their partnership.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • JitawaJitawa Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    So, Working Designs folded quite awhile ago. Vic Ireland is obviously involved with Gaijinworks, but how much of the old staff is too?

    I liked many Working Designs titles, but it's not clear to me that the two are exactly equivalent.

    It's different in my mind with Doublefine, where the guy in charge is the same guy who was in charge with Psychonauts, etc (though without Wolpaw I guess).
  • DaylightDiesDaylightDies Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    I came here expecting to see a lot of WD bashing.. nice to see just a lot of Special Edition bashing instead.

    I think the argument is kind of useless, it doesn't seem like they will come even close to hitting their number. My prediction is it barely cracks $100,000

    I loved WD, and will love Gaijinworks as well I am sure. They should just keep their eye on the prize and build up some capital doing the digital releases, and then when they are comfortable and stable maybe put some more capital into a game that has potential to sell very well, and then put together the special editions for that game.
    Bean Forever
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Jitawa said:
    So, Working Designs folded quite awhile ago. Vic Ireland is obviously involved with Gaijinworks, but how much of the old staff is too?

    I liked many Working Designs titles, but it's not clear to me that the two are exactly equivalent.

    It's different in my mind with Doublefine, where the guy in charge is the same guy who was in charge with Psychonauts, etc (though without Wolpaw I guess).
    Vic was the boss at WD, and it was his brash, confrontational nature and irresponsible business practices that kept the company from growing and lead to its eventual dissolution. More importantly, he's shown no signs of humbling or developing a business acumen in the years since WD closed down, as evidenced by his antagonistic attitude toward XSEED over Silver Star Harmony.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited April 2012
    If they really want to sell CE versions, give us something worth getting, like an art book and a soundtrack selection. In other words, think on the lines of XSEED and Atlus.
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  • LaephisLaephis ... Full Members
    edited April 2012
    There are so many other (better) games worthy of a kickstarter. This project is a shame and a total waste of potential.
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Laephis said:
    There are so many other (better) games worthy of a kickstarter. This project is a shame and a total waste of potential.
    Then there's that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • freykinfreykin Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    From what he's said, this is one of the only titles he could get to start off doing the whole kickstarter jrpg translation ball rolling. I've also heard that the sequel is much improved over the first, and I liked the first, so to me it's a good choice.

    I do wish he'd just put in a $25 tier or something that gets you a digital download copy. He'd make enough then I'm sure.
  • XerainXerain Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    So if they raise enough money to do voice work, does it become dual audio or English dub only? Because for a game like this where you are putting anime tropes directly into you party, I will under no circumstance play it with English dub. This game being steeping in anime is pretty much it's main selling point over many other very good dungeon crawlers in existence. So for me, on this particular game, Japanese voices are more important than any psychical copy or pack-in. I'm not going to fund myself not wanting to buy the game.
    I miss my old prettiful sig.
  • AncientRuneAncientRune Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    not like it matters I dont see this getting to 100k let alone 500k
  • storino03storino03 Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    People are wishing this or that. Well, if you don't at least pledge, we won't see what the concrete details of the dual languages, translation, gameplay, etc are. The first step that anyone is remotely interested in, would be to pledge any amount that way they get a more accurate portrayal.
    www.backloggery.com/storino03
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    storino03 said:
    People are wishing this or that. Well, if you don't at least pledge, we won't see what the concrete details of the dual languages, translation, gameplay, etc are. The first step that anyone is remotely interested in, would be to pledge any amount that way they get a more accurate portrayal.
    Seriously? You want people to give money before having questions answered? That's... Not how it works. Most people want to know what they're putting money into ahead of time.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • EmeraldSuzakuEmeraldSuzaku Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    storino03 said:
    People are wishing this or that. Well, if you don't at least pledge, we won't see what the concrete details of the dual languages, translation, gameplay, etc are. The first step that anyone is remotely interested in, would be to pledge any amount that way they get a more accurate portrayal.
    Actually, the first step is for Vic to publish a list of what he wants to do and include the monetary milestones at which those features will be feasible. Like everyone else. If he can't identify the budget he needs for things, I'm not confident enough in his ability to deliver to give money in the first place.

    Amusingly, were this just for a physical edition with enhancements based on pledge amount, I expect he'd be having a lot more success raising money. But by tying those things to something totally unrelated like a CE, the possibility of doing any of it shrinks to nearly nothing and provides inaccurate feedback on the demand for game enhancements and basic physical copies.
  • DaylightDiesDaylightDies Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    freykin said:
    From what he's said, this is one of the only titles he could get to start off doing the whole kickstarter jrpg translation ball rolling. I've also heard that the sequel is much improved over the first, and I liked the first, so to me it's a good choice.

    I do wish he'd just put in a $25 tier or something that gets you a digital download copy. He'd make enough then I'm sure.
    They are doing the digital release anyway- I'm not sure what it would accomplish to have it available as a preorder here..

    Basically this is to drum up interest to see if they a physical release is "worth it."

    It sure looks like the answer is going to be a resounding "NO!"

    But I will gladly buy the digital copy when it releases.
    Bean Forever
  • storino03storino03 Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Yes the digital release is coming out regardless of whether this gets the 500k funding or not, but if it doesn't meet the requirements for kickstarter, then the digital release will be gimped a lot. The kickstarter program affects both the Deluxe Edition's funding/availability as well as the "quality" of the digital release.

    I only said what I said is because they need to see progress in order to offer continuing incentives to keep the pledges constant as well as increase awareness by new developments. You can always back out later. But I do agree everything should have been made up front from the beginning and then let people decide. Goes both ways.
    www.backloggery.com/storino03
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