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RPGCast - Episode 217: "That's Falco"

sabin1001sabin1001 Man vs. Slime, the fourth type of conflictAdministrators
edited April 2012 in Latest Updates
RPGCast - Episode 217: "That's Falco"

The Pok
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Comments

  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Chris is right about an all-digital or no-used future hurting the mid-tier more than the tiny or the big publisher. Tiny guys like Zeboyd or Team Meat don't have much, if any, overhead, so they can just release at $10-$15 anyway and make a tidy profit off moderate sales. The mega-huge companies will get enough revenue between sales to keep them around, especially companies like EA and Activision who market aggressively.

    This hurts your Capcoms, Your From Softwares, your Atluses, companies who aren't some nobody garage development houses, but aren't enormous corporations. They almost certainly won't get enough money between massive sales because those sales will likely be the only time gamers, without the ability to offload games they don't like, will even consider purchasing them. Then there's the fact that they'll rarely ever on the Steam front page the way an indie darling or a massive mega-game will be, and of course they can't afford to advertise as much. They'd rely exclusively on word of mouth, and as Sega has unwittingly taught us, that approach isn't helpful in the long run.

    Oh, and let me make this clear - if gaming moves into that sort of model, I'm straight-up done. I have more than enough games to survive the crash that such unmitigated greed would surely cause.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • r34z0nr34z0n New Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    All digital is hurting is people's ability to get special edition boxes. Something I don't care to pay for anyway. I don't want to go to gamestop and hear about the million things I should preorder.
  • FreakGirlFreakGirl The lovely nurse Full Members
    edited April 2012
    I haven't listened to the whole podcast, yet. But I wouldn't be very fond of all digital gaming. I collect games and I like to see them in their cases in my shelves. When I just have a digital copy of a game, I don't feel like I own them.
    I wouldn't switch to just gaming on the PC, either. I own a gaming PC, but nonetheless prefer the consoles and handhelds. I just put the game into the console and can play it right away. I don't have to install them (at least on X360 you are not being forced to do so), I don't have to care about whether I have the current driver for my graphics card or not, whether the game can run while Kaspersky is working in the background (I think I had that problem with Aion), etc. Just to name a few reasons.
    Most of my gaming time I spend in front of the X360 playing all sorts of games, while chatting with my best friend over Party Chat. I like it that way and don't feel like changing anything about it! :)
    Currently playing: Diablo III, Max Payne 3, many XBLA games

    GamerTag: FreakGirl
    PSN: Freakgirl1985
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Artistic masturbation.
  • GaijinMonogatariGaijinMonogatari RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2012
    Sorry that I didn't mention multiplayer in the Pokemon Conquest impression, but there is a wireless versus mode. There is also regular DLC material being released, it seems.
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    r34z0n said:
    All digital is hurting is people's ability to get special edition boxes. Something I don't care to pay for anyway. I don't want to go to gamestop and hear about the million things I should preorder.
    Hyperbole much?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • OcelotOcelot is not declawed RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2012
    Not really. Digital distribution in and of itself is nothing more than an alternate avenue through which to buy software. I know some people don't like it, but others of us like it quite a bit. Now, I don't think it's a good idea for the console makers to restrict their machines to supporting digital-only (and that digital distribution is more problematic on consoles than PC because of the single-market situation), but I also believe that the console makers are well aware of this and that all those rumors about anti-used-sale measures (in the coming generation, anyway) are just a bunch of hot air.

    Really, there are two different issues here. 1. Whether or not people personally prefer to buy physical or digital games, which is a personal choice that is morally neutral. 2. How the gaming landscape would change if console makers suddenly artificially prevented the physical sale of software.

    I really don't think number 2 is an imminent possibility, although there is a possibility that console makers somewhere down the line (again, probably not in the coming generation) will start attaching non-transferrable serial codes to game copies on console games. That's a separate issue from digital distribution proper, though. That's about used games, and perhaps if the console makers act to prevent the sale of used games, somebody will be brave enough to actually take the issue to court. It's a consumer rights issue, and one that consumer rights groups have been reluctant to challenge in court because we know how many judges out there are old and stodgy and don't understand technology. If we want to keep the right to sell used games, though, I think we're going to have to challenge single-use, non-transferrable serial codes and the like in court.

    Separate from the used games debate and consumer rights, though, digital distribution on its own is just another option for buying games, one that I'm personally a fan of because of digital sales on older games and because I like minimizing clutter in my house. If some smaller companies are finding that they can only afford to sell games digitally, that's not because digital distribution is evil. It's because economic forces are preventing them from turning a reasonable profit off physical sales. If you want to support these niche companies in their quest to continue to release physical games, mail-order your games from retailers who stock niche games or shop at a mom and pop that stocks niche games instead of buying your games at Gamestop/Best Buy/Wal-Mart.
    Becky Cunningham, Staff-at-Large
    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance
  • Iliya MoroumetzIliya Moroumetz Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    ThroneofDravaris said:
    Artistic masturbation.
    Pretty much. If you need to try and explain why something is artistic, or explain an ending, you're doing it wrong.
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    ThroneofDravaris said:
    Artistic masturbation.
    I'd honestly prefer artistic masturbation to no visions at all, which is where Chris' position leads us.

    Rebo, I was more talking about the "million things to preorder" as Gamestop's not as bad about that as most on the internet make it out to be, and I've seen my fair share of pre-purchase splash screens on Steam.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • space_popespace_pope New Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    MasterChief said:
    I'd honestly prefer artistic masturbation to no visions at all, which is where Chris' position leads us.
    The problem is that the current ending has no real vision either.

    This is one of the few times that I actually somewhat agree with Chris (sorry Chris!) and disagree with Manny. The problem with the argument regarding "artistic integrity" is the assumption that there was any in the first place. I believe that there was some degree effort put into the rest of the story, although that is still debatable for some people. But the ending was so problematic, and just seemed half-assed. To me, "artistic integrity" is just used as a cover-up for the lack of effort and thought put in the ending.

    Prior to the release of the game, I was opposed to fans having too much control over the final product. I do actually believe in the idea of this artistic integrity after all. But looking at some of the decisions made, it seems like the fans actually care about the product more than the producers do. The problem here is not whether fans should have the ability to change the ending or not, rather, the problem is that such a situation should not have occurred in the first place.
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited April 2012
    In case it wasn't obvious, I was just laughing at the term "artistic masturbation" (which I'm pretty sure doesn't mean what Chris seems to think it means). I didn't quote it because I thought anyone in particular was correct in what they were saying. Generally, when you invoke the word "art" in any kind of debate, you have killed any chance you had of making an intelligible point (unless, of course, your point was "art is a ******** term invented proto-basement-dwellers to justify all the time they spent staring at pretty pictures.").
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    ThroneofDravaris said:
    In case it wasn't obvious, I was just laughing at the term "artistic masturbation" (which I'm pretty sure doesn't mean what Chris seems to think it means). I didn't quote it because I thought anyone in particular was correct in what they were saying. Generally, when you invoke the word "art" in any kind of debate, you have killed any chance you had of making an intelligible point (unless, of course, your point was "art is a ******** term invented proto-basement-dwellers to justify all the time they spent staring at pretty pictures.").
    Well, mine would be more like "art is a ******** term invented by European elitists to thumb their noses at the creative input of other cultures," but that's loaded with social commentary I suppose.

    That said, I don't see any good coming out of the fans coming in to change an ending. Nothing is ever gained by bowing to the crazed fandumb. And really, what does the fact that there was a petition in this case prove? There were petitions to protest DMC4 and FFXIII going multi-platform. Online petitions only prove that people have way too much time on their hands and have no idea what to do with said time.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • caddyalancaddyalan Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    In regards to physical versus digital products... right now I lean towards the "pro-physical" side. I purchase game discs and carts when possible. If there is no physical product, or if I want a PSP or iPod compatible version of an old favorite game, then I will consider purchasing a digital game. I've used iTunes, MediaGo, XBLA, and the Wii Store, all with some degree of success. Regarding computer games, I've purchased a few directly from small companies and independent publishers, and that's it.

    Still having trouble understanding how Steam works. I read the FAQ, and tried looking around the forums. However, I didn't see any clear statements about the following potential problems:

    * What happens if my computer stops working? Will I have to purchase all the content again? In the last few years, I've seen several of PCs become useless. The two most recent examples: one had a faulty power cord and no longer powers on, and another had repeated BSODs and now refuses to let me install a new OS.

    * I think that a person has to be online in order to use Steam. But do I need an always-on internet connection? If my internet service stops working for a few minutes, what will happen?

    * What would happen if I uninstall Steam? If I decide to stop paying for broadband services, will my purchases become useless data?

    Gamersgate has a few clear answers to basic questions like these. I purchased Civilization 3 there, but had a lot of trouble installing it. I didn't know how to proceed from there.

    I know that some companies have openly talked about their troubles selling PSP games. In the last few years, companies seem to have an "abandon ship" attitude towards Wii and DS software. And I've heard some reports about indie game creators having trouble making a profit from inexpensive games on iTunes. The last time I read an article about a major company being unwilling to port a game to PC was just a couple months ago. So... are companies making money through digital sales of PC games? If so, which ones?
  • ShayminShaymin The Gratitude Pokemon Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Steam is entirely tied to the login. So if you change PCs, you can just sign in with your Steam ID and download again. Same if you uninstall it - just reinstall it later.

    Also, it does have an offline mode as well.

    Not that I'm rooting for the digital future - you'll pry my carts, cards and discs from my cold, dead hands. But of all the online services, Steam sucks the least.
    "The flowers all over its body burst into bloom if it is lovingly hugged and senses gratitude."
    Twitter | A gaming podcast by grownups
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Shaymin - While Steam itself is tied only to your login, individual games may have additional DRM, such as constant connection or install limits. Basically, outside of GOG, you have to research every individual purchase.

    Also, while the games can be played offline, you won't be able to reinstall without a broadband connections. Basically, your collection is at the mercy of your ISP.

    Caddyalan - It's hard to tell who is making what on Steam, as no one, including Valve, is willing to divulge numbers. With GameStop having all but abandoned PC gaming in the years prior to Steam, this effectively makes the entire PC market a guessing game. Much the same can be said of iOS.

    And yeah, you companies can talk about licenses all they want, but the core opposition to digital only or bind-on-equip models is that said licenses are written so that games can be taken away on a whim. By contrast, my current collection isn't leaving my home without a fight.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • BalanceBalance Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Hi folks! Here's my two cents on the Chris X Manny debate over Mass effect ending

    1) Bah! I think Bioware has been lazy and not supplied additional endings considering how big this series is.
    2) Games are protected from a recent court decision because they're classified as "art" If we don't accept artistic integrity we're underming our own positioning and shooting ourselves in the foot.
    3) I am in despair about the lack of original endings in games and books, the very obvious decision to use tragedy to try and impart a sense of emotional involvement is overused and instant negative points from me.
    4) Before we have sides that are opposed we have to wonder who is the true enemy here. We want gamers to enjoy their experience-this is entertainment and WE are paying for it. Plot makers won't be able to please everyone, but it would be nice to have one or two alternatives that placate the majority- that is the sensible compromise. The game company should want gamers to be happy, if I had some "artist" who won't compromise their ideals for getting off their lazy backside I would just hire another to make another plot ending, if he/she complains too much I would fire them. After all who should make the compromise? An "Artist" or thousands or millions of fans?.
  • SavorienSavorien Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    I agree with Manny on all things, ever.
    Vanillaware’s 2D is, once again, shaming their competitor’s 3D. It’s like, what are you even doing with your extra D, jerks? Maybe we should hold that extra D in reserve for you, like a trust, until you are ready. - Tycho, Penny Arcade
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Savorien said:
    I agree with Manny on all things, ever.
    I dunno if I'd go with "all things ever," but he does get a lot of things right, at least sometimes.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • Iliya MoroumetzIliya Moroumetz Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Chris was right.

    When you take something that fans have been wondering for the longest time, Tali's face, and use a barely photoshopped stock image photo from the internet instead of actually working on it yourself, your claims of 'artistic integrity' have pretty much gone down the tubes.
  • sabin1001sabin1001 Man vs. Slime, the fourth type of conflict Administrators
    edited April 2012
    Eh, my point is that the artistic vision of games INCLUDES player choice and respecting them is just as important to seeing the vision through as carrying through your neat story ending idea. This isn't a 2 hour movie, this is a 100+ hour epic saga that the player had a hand in creating. I think the player is involved in the art and in the creation of the vision. Though to what extent will vary with different games.

    Anyway, I've actually seen the ending now. So...
    Spoiler:
    out of the three possible endings I can see one of them actually making sense and being respectful of the player in what happens. It's the most artful and traditional sci-fi of the three and if it were to be what happened, really justifies the shortness of the ending and the post-credit scene. The other two endings, even though they're nearly identical just don't have the context in my opinion to justify what occurs in them. As to my feelings about it, I'm satisfied, but disappointed with the green ending. Red and Blue just feel lazy and nonsensical to me. I am, however, enchanted by the indoctrination theory speculation: http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-analyzing-the-indoctrination-theory/ That would be awesome if that's where they're going with this.
    image
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Forgot to bring this up earlier, but The Legend of Grimrock is not a Wizardry-clone, like you guys seemed to think it is. It's based on Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder which, despite being first person and party based, play quite differently to games like Etrian Odyssey and Strange Journey. The biggest difference is that combat and grid movement is done in real-time, and there is an emphasis on puzzle solving. This trailer is a pretty good summary of how these games play.
  • OcelotOcelot is not declawed RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2012
    Indeed! I was a huge fan of Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder (I was so proud when I finished EotB as a teenager), which is why I'm very excited to be downloading Grimrock right now.
    Becky Cunningham, Staff-at-Large
    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance
  • BogrotBogrot New Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Oh yay, Grimrock's out now! Must go download. I feel like I'm really in a minority enjoying these games. One of the last GBA RPGs I played to completion was Mazes of Fate, and heck, I even like the original Class of Heroes.
    I really wish 3DS was region-free- most of my favourite dungeon-crawlers from the past generation (Class of Heroes being one, SMT: Strange Journey being the main one (awesome game), and even liking Dark Spire) weren't released in this country (England). I guess you Americans either like these games more, or else there are just enough of every small niche-loving minority that any game can make its money in the states. My problem is, I feel like I'd buy a 3DS in good old Blighty, and then see all these great games released in the US that I can't play. Of course I could always just stick to all the old classic dungeon crawlers on my netbook....
  • OcelotOcelot is not declawed RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2012
    I've played through the first level of Grimrock, and it's so nostalgic! I also gifted a copy to my sister, who played through Dungeon Master with me back when we were both kids (she was like 8 years old and thought that worm chunks were the funniest thing), and she was up until 5:30 in the morning playing it.
    Becky Cunningham, Staff-at-Large
    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance
  • AzilisAzilis Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    I'm a little late to this discussion, but I'm listening to the last week's podcast right now, and just got to the big ME3 ending argument. Manny is right. I haven't been a big Bioware fan since the days of the Baldur's Gate series, but they absolutely have the right to make the ending the way they want to. They should be under no obligation to change it just because some fans didn't like it, especially if Bioware did like it. I've only played the first of the 3 Mass Effect games, but I know enough about Bioware to know that their games are generally more about the journey than the destination.

    The argument Chris made that "this isn't just some fans . . . these are people organizing an online petition!" made me laugh. There are online petitions for just about everything under the sun. Organizing an online petition doesn't make their views any more valid than the views of the people who, you know, actually made the game.

    The player does not have a hand in creating the experience. They can (sometimes) choose a certain path through the experience, but the developer still crafts every bit of that experience. Anything else is an illusion. I love having choices in the way a game plays out (which is why I generally prefer western rpgs to JRPGs), but the creative vision is all the developer's.

    EDIT: I'll add that the argument that they want to preserve their 'artistic integrity' implies that Bioware likes the ending as is. I don't think they mean that they can't change it once they've written it because it would damage their artistic integrity . . . just that they won't change it simply to bow down to the masses when they like it in it's current form.
  • LegendaryZoltanLegendaryZoltan Releaser of Heavy Metal Full Members
    edited April 2012
    I've been playing PS3 exclusively for a while now and lately I've started contemplating a bit of PC gaming. So...

    How much is it for a good PC for gaming these days?
    How much is an IPad and does it have some good RPGs?
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    The iPad 3 is $499 for the wi-fi only, 8-gig model, IIRC.

    A good PC, well, it can be quite variable. A modern graphics card is around $200, and AMD processors tend to be that much at the high end. Intel processors are much more expensive. Then a good power supply which is around $70-$100. You're probably looking at another $500 or so.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • xocolatlxocolatl Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    What exactly IS the problem with ME3's ending? I have been hearing cries about it over and over, but I never quite got to the bottom of the argument. Are people mad at the not-Hollywood-perfect-happy ending, or are people mad at the palette swap?

    I am not fan of the series. Never played the game either. I saw the palette swap ending and I just laughed...it was incredibly lazy. But I wouldn't mind if they had actually shown Shepard's head on the stick. Seriously, guys..bad endings are perfectly OK. Often times they're even good. Am I just not getting it because I'm not American, so I'm much more exposed to "bad endings"? Growing up on Ultraman (where 90% of the main cast ended up dead) makes me kind of used to the bad endings, I guess.

    ps. Chris..seriously. It wouldn't be called "artistic integrity" if they just bow over and give in to the buyers straight away.
    I'm going to side with Manny here and say that a game's story belongs wholly to the creator. They should never have to give in to the mass, ever. One caveat is that my opinion is based on the fact that you don't like the ending because of the first reason (it is not happy), so please disregard it if you are crying foul here because Bioware is just lazy.
    Videogames are art, and you do get to make choices. But where the choices lead shouldn't have to be all happy-happy. The fact that all your decision ultimately leads to only one result should be fine. I think it speaks to the theme of the game.
    However, when that "one" result is actually recolored and passed off as multiple results...THAT is unacceptable.
  • The Gentleman LoserThe Gentleman Loser New Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    LegendaryZoltan said:
    I've been playing PS3 exclusively for a while now and lately I've started contemplating a bit of PC gaming. So...

    How much is it for a good PC for gaming these days?
    How much is an IPad and does it have some good RPGs?
    Zoltan you can build a strong gaming rig for $800-1000, if your serious PM me and I can give you allot more information
  • 7thCircle7thCircle RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2012
    LegendaryZoltan said:
    How much is it for a good PC for gaming these days?
    I bought a gaming PC in 2009 and it plays recent resource-heavy RPGs like The Witcher 2, Deus Ex, and Skyrim on medium graphics settings or higher. If you're looking to spend as little as possible, all that matters is the graphics card. I didn't want to build a PC from scratch, so I bought a POS non-gaming PC for $350, a $130 graphics card, and a $70 power supply (the power supplies in POS non-gaming PCs can't handle a solid GPU). The assembly was easy, and it's still holding up well even though the CPU is crap and I only have 3 GB of RAM, so I'm glad I didn't spend more than I needed to.

    That doesn't include the monitor cost, by the way.
    The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions.
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