If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Forum Rules. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Welcome to RPGamer's new forums running under Vanilla Forums! If you're run into any odd or strange issues after our software migration please see this thread for details

Suikoden - Staff Retroview

JuMeSynJuMeSyn Code: KirinAdministrators
edited October 2012 in Latest Updates
Back in the days when Sony strongly discouraged anything 2D from leaving Japan, this little Konami title slipped through to claim an attentive audience. Maybe one had to be there at the time to feel the love.
If the money is in bits, then would 8 of them be a dollar?
It's not what he's eating, but what's eating him that makes it ... sort of interesting.
«1

Comments

  • OcelotOcelot is not declawed RPGamer Staff
    edited September 2012
    I'd probably stick Suikoden up to a 3.5 out of love and devotion, but yeah, the series was at its best in Suikoden II.
    Becky Cunningham, Staff-at-Large
    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance
  • Twohands108Twohands108 New Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    Suikoden is one of the best RPGs ever made on any system. It's one of a very few games that I could still go back to on the PS1, it featured a great cast of characters, a very enjoyable combat system, beautiful music, decent graphics for its time, so how you can reward it 3/5 when games like Wild Arms, Alundra and even Azure Dreams scored higher is beyond me.

    Yes Suikoden 2 probably pipped it but I wouldnt put much between them. Strange review.
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    I never really saw what was so great about the original. It was okay even at its time. The only major reason to get it is to unlock stuff in Suikoden 2, but considering what you get, it's worth it.
  • LOLOttertardLOLOttertard Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    I wasn't really bothered by the inconsistent encounter rate since, in another series tradition, you can Let Go weak enemy parties and avoid wasting your time fighting them for meager experience, which is proportional to a character's level.

    I also managed to beat the game in under 20 hours but then again I've played it plenty times.
  • ChickenGodChickenGod Overdosing Heavenly Bliss Moderators
    edited September 2012
    JuMes didn't retroview Azure Dreams and Wild Arms 1, to be fair. Plus he only awarded Alundra .5 more, not too big a deal.

    Anyway, this review pretty much reflects my opinion toward Suiko 1. Its a decent game for sure, but not super spectacular. My first time playing Suiko 1 was when I was very young at the time it was originally released. I think my mom rented it for herself and I tried it as well. Was a neat game, but the lack of attention span in my youth and only having it a short time messed things up for me. Eventually I went on to try Suikoden 2 and fell in love with that one. A couple years later or something I finally got my hands on a copy of S1 and felt a little underwhelmed. Everything was just a little unrefined, which is certainly forgivable given what Suikoden was trying to achieve.
    "Looks like Teach just got tenure!" - Teach
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited September 2012
    I have to agree with JuMe's review. The game was good, but is pretty average nowadays, and I had the same irritations and whatnot with the game. That reminds me...I still need to beat Suikoden 2.
    User Database Check
    Pages cleared: 98
    Users cleared: 2940
    Current Year: 2010
    Spammer-Banning Battle Theme: You Will Know Our Names
    Number of Spammers banned: At least 2000 at this point.
  • Twohands108Twohands108 New Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    ChickenGod said:
    JuMes didn't retroview Azure Dreams and Wild Arms 1, to be fair. Plus he only awarded Alundra .5 more, not too big a deal.
    No but surely there needs to be comparison to other reviews, at least for games of the same genre on the same console? I had every RPG released on the PS1 and I can assure you that Suikoden was far superior than any other RPG released in the UK at that time bar Final Fantasy 7 (Although I have more love for Suikoden) and maybe Chrono Cross, Vagrant Story and the Vandal Hearts.
  • 7thCircle7thCircle RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited September 2012
    Games don't get bonus points for being on a console full of RPGs that didn't age well. If it's not that fun to play now, then it's going to get a score that's not that great. There is no "This game wasn't all that fun, but at least it wasn't Beyond the Beyond. 4.5/5 for Suikoden!" in reviewing. JuMeSyn has been tearing through a back catalogue of widely-loved console and PC RPGs recently, and he hasn't hesitated to give the fun ones high scores.

    It's fine to love an older game, but don't tell someone a mediocre, flawed experience should get bonus points because some worse games existed that year. You already listed several better PS1 games. Most of us were still on the SNES in 1996 which has an even deeper list of better RPGs, if you're going the comparison route.
    The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions.
  • lolwhoopslolwhoops Member HalifaxFull Members
    edited September 2012
    i put down this game because i was getting tired of the grind. The story is all right, the battles are not bad, but I've played better. I've played better PS1 RPGs at that.
    lolwhoops: a Gamer's Blog
    ^^is my blog! Updates whenever I feel like it! :D which happens a lot more often now!
    this is my twitter! come twit with me
  • The Last PaladinThe Last Paladin Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    Yeah, I definitely was one of those guys who could never understand the love of Suikoden. To me it was a subpar rpg even back then, and I never included it as part of my top favorite rpgs on the PS1. I hear Suikoden 2 was better though, but never had the chance to play it. If that game ever comes out on the PSN, I would give it a go though...
  • MinneyarMinneyar Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    I loved Suikoden. I remember that when I first got a PS1, I got three games with it: Final Fantasy 7, Wild Arms, and Suikoden. I played FF7 first because I knew I was a fan of FF games, and honestly I was a bit let down by it. I played Wild Arms next because I had heard good things about it from friends, and it was pretty fun. I put off Suikoden for last because of the terrible box art, and afterwards I felt like that was a terrible mistake, because it was easily my favorite of the three games.

    I really liked the story, but I've always been a fan of games that had more "local" stories -- that is to say, the type that concerns itself with the politics and events in a single area rather than a global "save the world from destruction" type plot. I also loved the amount of detail that put into the setting; there's a lot of details you find scattered about the game that may not be directly related to the main plot, but add a lot of depth to it. I also loved the music, it's still one of my favorite soundtracks. I thought that the different styles of battles were a lot of fun, too; even if the army and duel battles are basically rock-paper-scissors fights, they added some variety to the game.

    But anyway, that's enough of me rambling about my love for Suikoden. Suikoden II took everything the first game did and did it much better. It's one of the few games that I'd say deserves a solid 5/5.
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    I really liked the story, but I've always been a fan of games that had more "local" stories -- that is to say, the type that concerns itself with the politics and events in a single area rather than a global "save the world from destruction" type plot
    Oh, good. A kindred spirit. I've also always been more fascinated by smaller scale plots than "save the world" stories. I think it's because small scale plots do a better job at handling key characters and dramatically detailing their struggles with elements much closer to home, plus it's harder to justify a line of comic books and novels when the story can actually fit one game. Big universe lore has seriously gotten out of hand.
    I think my mom rented it for herself and I tried it as well.
    Your mom sounds cool. My mom still hasn't figured out how to send emails, lol. Which is...kind of odd because she is very, very good at Streets of Rage.
  • TheMooseTheMoose Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    While I didn't play the original Suikoden, I did play the prequels (Suikoden 4, Suikoden 5, and Suikoden Tactics), sequels such as Suikoden 2 and 3, and spinoffs like Suikoden Tierkreis.

    Too bad there's no mention of a North American release of Suikoden Centennial Tapestry.

    As for a hope for Suikoden 6, Suikoden 7, or future mainstream Suikodens, I hope that Konami brings back or restarts the Suikoden development teams and continues this series after a seven year hiatus so it won't go the way of Capcom's "Breath of Fire"

    While not related to Suikoden, any news when Suikoden Centennial Tapestry will be released in North America?

    I just looked at the screenshots for Suikoden Centenntial Tapestry, and the battle layout and graphics are much better than Suikoden Tierkreis.

    If North America and Europe don't get Suikoden Centenntial Tapestry, it will be a big blow to Suikoden fans this side of the Pacific.
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited September 2012
    TheMoose said:
    While not related to Suikoden, any news when Suikoden Centennial Tapestry will be released in North America?
    Best not hold your breath on that one.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • Rya_ReisenderRya_Reisender Solipsist Snowflake Full Members
    edited September 2012
    I liked Suikoden, but disliked that there are so many characters. I hate having to choose which characters should go into the group. If it only had 6 playable characters I'd probably rate it 4/5, but like this I'd also rate it 3/5.

    I'd rate Alundra and Wild Arms higher than Suikoden myself as well. Alundra has this really really well written story, much better than Suikoden's and Wild Arms has much more interesting dungeons with better puzzles and stuff.

    Azure Dreams was pretty bad, though. Wouldn't rate it better than 2/5.
  • PimpaliciousPimpalicious Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    I liked Suikoden a lot so it would rate higher(4 personally, 3.5 subjectively) for me but can't really argue with the issues.
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    I hate having to choose which characters should go into the group
    You could have just stuck to the same group of 6 characters for the whole game. You didn't have to swap out your party that much.
  • Twohands108Twohands108 New Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    7thCircle said:
    Games don't get bonus points for being on a console full of RPGs that didn't age well. If it's not that fun to play now, then it's going to get a score that's not that great. There is no "This game wasn't all that fun, but at least it wasn't Beyond the Beyond. 4.5/5 for Suikoden!" in reviewing. JuMeSyn has been tearing through a back catalogue of widely-loved console and PC RPGs recently, and he hasn't hesitated to give the fun ones high scores.

    It's fine to love an older game, but don't tell someone a mediocre, flawed experience should get bonus points because some worse games existed that year. You already listed several better PS1 games. Most of us were still on the SNES in 1996 which has an even deeper list of better RPGs, if you're going the comparison route.
    Re read my statement - the game should score higher because it is a fun to play great game that spawned one of the best RPG series of all time. This is not just my opinion but that of many. (Check out all the Suikoden revival pages on social network sites)

    My comments were that far worse games have scored higher in RPGamer's reviews it makes me wonder how extensively these games have been played through before review? Azure dreams was fricking awful.. repetitive tosh, Alundra was decent but just a Zelda clone. Maybe you should have actually played these PS games rather than your SNES games before commenting?

    Suikoden was different to all the rest, a large list of characters(a fair few had real depth), headquarters, 3 different battle systems, mini games & most of all a great story. Who didn't get upset when Gremio or Pahn died? Only to find out they didn't have to if you played the perfect game.
  • Severin MiraSeverin Mira News Director/Reviewer RPGamer Staff
    edited September 2012
    Your (or others') opinion isn't what this particular review score is based on though, kinda defeats the purpose to use someone else's scoring opinion with Jumes' text :)
    "My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."
    Twitter: severinmira | Xbox Live: Severin Mira | PSN: severinmira (EU), severin-US (US) | NNID: severinmira | Skype: severinmk
    Final Fantasy XIV: Sevirain Kristinger (Leviathan)
  • Twohands108Twohands108 New Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    Of course you are right, I suppose it just riled me to see terrible games beating what is in my opinion a classic. So many of us want to see a Suikoden 6, I wanted a respected site like RPGamer to score the original higher so it doesn't put people off playing the games.
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited September 2012
    Except the original isn't all that good when compared to the others. 3 was pretty good (it was my first), 4 was a little disappointing after 3 but still good, Tierkreis is good, and I haven't played 5 so I can't make a judgement call with that one.
    User Database Check
    Pages cleared: 98
    Users cleared: 2940
    Current Year: 2010
    Spammer-Banning Battle Theme: You Will Know Our Names
    Number of Spammers banned: At least 2000 at this point.
  • Rya_ReisenderRya_Reisender Solipsist Snowflake Full Members
    edited September 2012
    Alundra is by far just a Zelda clone. The story is far superior to any Zelda game and actually also to most RPGs ever.
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited September 2012
    Twohands108 said:
    Of course you are right, I suppose it just riled me to see terrible games beating what is in my opinion a classic. So many of us want to see a Suikoden 6, I wanted a respected site like RPGamer to score the original higher so it doesn't put people off playing the games.
    Everyone sees games differently. We often offer reviews from multiple people to show that one person might like what another hates. RPGamer reviews aren't hivemind reviews, just an individual's take. That said, this is far from the first Suikoden 1 review to hit the site. Former staff and readers alike tackled it in the past. http://www.rpgamer.com/pointsofview/archive/archive.cgi?mode=view_game&game=114
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • TyphoTypho Knight Errant Full Members
    edited September 2012
    I have good memories of playing this game back in the day. That said, I bought it on PSN a while back and began playing it, and it did not keep my interest for long. Let's just say I'm content to keep the fond memories of it instead of subjecting myself to it again. It did not age well, and most of the niceties that recent RPGs bring to the table make it somewhat of a painstaking experience.
  • MinneyarMinneyar Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    TG Barighm said:
    Oh, good. A kindred spirit. I've also always been more fascinated by smaller scale plots than "save the world" stories.
    On a related note, Breath of Fire III is another one of my favorite RPGs and falls into the same category. (Planescape: Torment, too)

    I actually played through Suikoden I & II again for my wife just a few years ago, as she had never seen them before. I still enjoyed S1, although looking back on it, the script is kind of weak. I still really like all the smaller, more personal stories that go on during the game. (S2, on the other hand, I think I had forgotten just how good it really is)

    We started S3 and didn't get very far in it before we lost interest and decided to play something else. I like the story and characters, but the gameplay is just sooo slow compared to the first two games that it's hard for me to get into it. S5, on the other hand, I like almost as much as S2, so maybe we'll get to it one of these days...
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    S3 took some risks with the gameplay that didn't really work out, and I have no idea what they were thinking with all those twisty tunnel dungeons, but the story is one of the best in gaming history (assuming you've played the first two) and I like how they give you more reasons to level most of your characters.
  • hyperknees91hyperknees91 Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    Man I loveeee Suikoden 1 but it does have a good bit of flaws to it (Like the music fading out abruptly and coming right back in as scenes load lawl).

    I know the games pacing was complained about, but I think it's one of it's strengths that keeps it appealing and replayable. You're never in any area for too long and your always in a new and interesting place every 30-40 minutes and doing something different, which I think let it be fresh the whole game.

    Truth be told the story is nothing deep, but I think the point of it was more of a tale of "Yes the main character won and achieved victory, but how much did he have to lose in the process" (which is the same for all of them really). Suikoden 2 was better developed but less tragic, Suikoden 3 was very well developed but even less tragic, Suikoden 4 was....lawl, and Suikoden 5 is on the same page as 2. B

    But yeah it was real odd with this game, I bought it in like 2003 and beat it 5 times before I was truly done with it for awhile (not something I do with any game these days). Despite it's flaws I think it has some quirky charm to it which makes it hold a special place in a lot of peoples hearts.
  • He Who LurksHe Who Lurks AWESOME! Full Members
    edited September 2012
    Chrono Trigger was a contemporary in Japan, and its graphical prowess was actually more impressive on the SNES than Suikoden achieves on the PlayStation.
    While I concur with the gist of the argument that Suikoden doesn't take advantage of the power of the PSX, I just can't agree that it actually looks worse than Chrono Trigger. Even just the images in the review show the game does in fact look slightly better than what a Super Nintendo could pump out.

    If you just meant Chrono Trigger was impressive because it pushed the SNES and Suikoden was not impressive because it pushed nothing, that I could go along with, but just a straight comparison between how the two look, Suikoden has a little bit of an edge.
    I'm He Who Lurks, and I'm AWESOME!
  • OcelotOcelot is not declawed RPGamer Staff
    edited September 2012
    I am a Suiko-fanatic, but even I have to admit that the series has never deserved high marks in the graphical department. Character design, yes. Overall graphic design/quality, not in the least... with the singular exception of Suikoden Tierkreis, which has some very nice graphics (outside of the awful 3D battle scenes, anyway) for the DS.
    Becky Cunningham, Staff-at-Large
    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance
  • MinneyarMinneyar Member Full Members
    edited September 2012
    hyperknees91 said:
    Despite it's flaws I think it has some quirky charm to it which makes it hold a special place in a lot of peoples hearts.
    "Quirky charm" is a good way to describe a lot of S1. It breaks a lot of RPG conventions in little ways, and I can see how that'd annoy some people, but it just contributes to me loving it.

    On the subject of graphics, I thought S1 was pretty standard for an early PS1 game, but S2 was amazing. I was always impressed at how many unique animations there are in the game; for example, the rag in the hero's hand when you're running around the fort at the beginning, or the scene where you first meet Nanami, or the scene where you rescue Flik & Viktor, and more scenes that involve spoilers... almost every scene in the game has detailed animations that were obviously made just for that scene. There are many 2D games that use the same stock animations for characters over and over.
Sign In or Register to comment.