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Poll - FF Off the Rails?

JuMeSynJuMeSyn Code: KirinAdministrators
edited June 2013 in Latest Updates
Which of these Final Fantasy games has damaged the brand most?
Final Fantasy XIII/XIII-2/Lightning Returns
Final Fantasy XIV
Final Fantasy Versus XIII
The brand has not been damaged
It's not what he's eating, but what's eating him that makes it ... sort of interesting.
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Comments

  • PaperLuigi1234PaperLuigi1234 New Member Full Members
    edited May 2013
    JuMeSyn said:
    Which of these Final Fantasy games has damaged the brand most?
    Final Fantasy XIII/XIII-2/Lightning Returns
    Final Fantasy XIV
    Final Fantasy Versus XIII
    The brand has not been damaged
    Its a tough question. But yes the brand has been damaged somewhat

    HOWEVER

    there have been some really great ff titles this gen like ff ta 2, revant wings, 4 heroes of light, type zero, dimensions, ect... I even think 13/-2 were great.

    What damaged it was XIV
  • smacdsmacd Full Members
    edited May 2013
    FF7. By far FF7. I can't think of any game in the series that I feel ruined the franchise and genre more than FF7. One of the worst games ever made, in my opinion. Didn't even feel like an FF, I'm still convinced that it was just some mediocre RPG that they decided to slap the FF name on for sales reasons. And not just because I didn't like the game (then or now), but because of its lasting taint on the fanbase and genre since.

    I'd take any of the 13 or 14 titled games over 7.

    Although from as objective a viewpoint as possible. I think that almost all of the main series FF games since X have been damaging in some manner. 11 caused a rift by being an MMO, and a numbered MMO at that. 12 caused more damage by being too "western/MMO" feeling. 13 caused the rift to widen by being antithesis to the exploration found in almost all previous FF titles, and 14 was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

    Really though, you can go back at least to the PSX games and find angry fans with every iteration. FF7, 8 and 9 all divided the fanbase more in the west than any of the previous titles had.

    But one thing I've learned, is that Square has redeemed the franchise several times after it flew off the tracks. After the awful 7 and 8, we got the great game that was 9. Same thing happened on the PS2 era- 10 and 11 were not anything like what I wanted, but I was rewarded with a great game that was 12. So even if I don't like what they are currently serving out, there are people that like it, and I can hope that maybe the next game will be designed for my tastes. So far, its been the third/last game on a console generation that has been a redeemer, and I'm holding hopes for whatever FF15 is to be good.
  • ChickenGodChickenGod Overdosing Heavenly Bliss Moderators
    edited May 2013
    Odd poll, considering there was probably room for more options. In my opinion the brand has been damaged somewhat so I'm in agreement with Luigi there. Why did you guys have to bundle 13 and its sequels? How do you expect someone like me who loves one to death but hates the other to even consider that option? :(

    For me its a combination of games that have really hurt the brand. 11, 12, 13-2, and 14 spring to mind as the most prominent. Concerning Versus and 13-3, they'll really only hurt the brand when they come out and actually suck. Right now I don't even think of Versus as a "main" FF, its more a spin off like Crystal Chronicles is at this point. Lack of Type-O in English doesn't help either. Personally if I had to pin it all on one game, I'd say 12 hurt the FF image the most in my eyes. As a single player RPG, it was one of the biggest disappointments I've ever played.
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  • omegabyteomegabyte He's just this guy, you know? RPGamer Staff
    edited May 2013
    Considering that FF14 is the only game in the franchise to receive universally negative critical reviews and was released as a buggy, unfinished, and poorly translated mess, it has to be FF14.

    FF13 has been polarizing, sure, but its got just as many fans as it has haters, so I'd hardly say it's been detrimental to the overall brand. In fact, polarizing opinions can often be beneficial to a brand, not damaging. And since Vs 13 isn't out and likely never will be out, it really can't be seen as anything other than a broken promise. If it gets released and then sucks harder than FF14, I might change my tune.
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  • TwinBahamutTwinBahamut Staff Healer RPGamer Staff
    edited May 2013
    Of the options listed, it's 14. That release was an unmitigated disaster, and fixing it has been very costly.

    Overall, the biggest problem isn't a single game; it is the general decline in quality ever since the Square Enix merger. I've already said plenty about how much I despite FF12, but it can also be said that the very fact that (regardless of quality) FF11 and FF14 have been MMOs has been polarizing and divisive, 13 was flawed and its sequels really are a mistake, and Versus XIII has been in limbo for far too long. The biggest problem, though, is that the two FF games that could have improved people's recent opinions of the series, Type-0 and the "not technically an FF but who cares" Bravely Default have had trouble coming over here (thank God, or maybe Nintendo, that at least one finally is).

    Simply put, fans of the series have nothing to really look forward to, and that is the most important thing in a recurring franchise. We can't look forward to the few things that look good because of unending development and localization problems, and the games that are almost certain to come over (Lightning Returns, sadly) generally are not what people actually want. There is no hope to be found, other than the vague hope that FF15 will actually be announced and somehow escape the problems plaguing the previous 6 console FF games (12, 13, 14, vs13, 13-2, LR). I mean, I guess I can hope for a FF Type-1 that actually gets a Western release, but that might also be a long shot at this point.
  • Fowl SorcerousFowl Sorcerous Dread News Editor RPGamer Staff
    edited May 2013
    If i'm playing by the rules 14. Versus 13 has replaced Duke Nukem Forever as the punchline in release date jokes, but will inevitably come out and be just as polarizing as every post-nomura FF release.
    Colouring outside the lines, you know Nomura killed this brand for a great many people and will continue to do so until a SE gets a CEO with the balls to kick him out of the office, arguing over whether it was 7 or 8 or 10 is just something we all do to kill time.
  • ClixClix Never Google Image Search Full Members
    edited May 2013
    Nomura has only really negatively affected FFVII via Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children. Beyond art, he literally has done nothing else to most of the series, and his involvement has been pretty small in recent years beyond (diminishing) fanservice in the KH games.

    The damage began in the PS2 era. I personally point at FFX due to my extreme dislike of that game, but XI and XII are where things started to get nasty (despite my personal respect for both). As mention, XI alienated people by being a completely different venue despite keeping the Roman numeral. XII, meanwhile, took forever to come out and wasn't fully baked due to still-largely-secret developer-producer-relations woes. The recent games have just been ripe cherries that confirm things aren't going well; XIII took a while and also came out half-assed, and XIV repeated the "sin" of XI and didn't even have the decency to at least be good while being different from 90% of the series.

    At this point, XV would have to be one hell of a game to win back many (though I'd personally settle for something FFXII-tier at this point).
  • OcelotOcelot is not declawed RPGamer Staff
    edited May 2013
    And here I thought I was alone for not liking Final Fantasy X. :D

    I voted FFXIV, but that's my personal prejudice because I had to post so much dang media for that game prior to launch, and then when it came out it turned out that it sucked. I'm not one of those people who feels super-strongly about Final Fantasy as a series despite loving two of the games in that series, so I generally feel free to be kinda flippant about it all.
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  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited May 2013
    It was definitely FFXIV that hurt the brand. FFXIII was actually a decent FF game, and FFXIII-2 was the same. I hope FFXV does the brand some good, and considering the rumors I've been hearing that Versus XIII is now FFXV, it's very possible it will do some good.
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  • smacdsmacd Full Members
    edited May 2013
    DarkRPGMaster said:
    considering the rumors I've been hearing that Versus XIII is now FFXV
    I really hope that rumor is false. Nothing about Versus XIII has sounded appealing to me in any way. And if XV ends up bad, it'll destroy my theory that the best numbered FFs have numbers divisible by 3.
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited May 2013
    smacd said:
    I really hope that rumor is false. Nothing about Versus XIII has sounded appealing to me in any way. And if XV ends up bad, it'll destroy my theory that the best numbered FFs have numbers divisible by 3.
    That theory was already destroyed with Final Fantasy 3.
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  • lolwhoopslolwhoops Member HalifaxFull Members
    edited May 2013
    FF 4-10, then 12, have all been successfully beaten by me at some point shortly after obtaining them. Final Fantasy 13 still hasn't made me want to play it and 13-2 is just sitting there staring at me. I got it for free when I bought my new 360. It just doesn't beg me to play like most of the others.

    That said, FF14 being the way it was completely shattered my faith in a FF game coming that would be quality time spent. There's always been ones I preferred over another, so I just figured 13 was the rare nose turner. But I'm not likely to rush for another FF game at launch for quite some time.
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  • ironmageironmage chaotic neutral observer SaskatoonFull Members
    edited May 2013
    DarkRPGMaster said:
    That theory was already destroyed with Final Fantasy 3.
    Maybe he meant FF3-US. Then we could count FF6 twice. :-P


    I don't think I could point to any one FF game and say, "that's where it broke".

    FFX-2 was the worst for me, but I don't think it had that much effect on the brand. FF12 felt like a transition point; I really liked the game, but the loss of Matsuno partway through meant there was a lot of unrealized potential. FF13 was an okay enough RPG, but it just didn't feel like an FF game. Yet, I don't think 13 particularly damaged the brand, so much as attempted to redirect it. 13-2 had real issues, though.

    I see what's happening as a gradual decline, rather than an abrupt collapse. Which is worse, in a way; a bad game now and then can be dismissed as an anomaly, but a downward spiral is harder to wave away.

    I don't consider FF11 and FF14 to be all that strongly connected to the FF brand proper. FF14 definitely hurt S/E's reputation, but FF itself? I guess it depends on how strongly the single-player and online variants are associated in people's minds....


    Hmm. Maybe "All the Bravest" should have been a poll choice.
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  • Endless DespairEndless Despair New Member Full Members
    edited May 2013
    Gonna agree with FF14 doing the most damage to the franchise. Still not sure why Square-Enix decided to make a 3 part FF13 series. I'm not on the 13 hate wagon or anything, but damn near any of the other FF's would've had more interesting sequels.
    Objection! That's so fun to say.
  • smacdsmacd Full Members
    edited May 2013
    DarkRPGMaster said:
    That theory was already destroyed with Final Fantasy 3.
    Compared to FF1 and FF2 - FF3 is an excellent game and my preferred one of that era. What might hurt my theory is that 4 and 5 are both good games, although not arguably superior to 6, so my theory holds.

    I suppose a more refined version of my theory would be expressed mathematically as: Where Z is an integer, if Z mod 3 = 0 then Z > Z-1 and Z > Z-2.

    I generally believe that a game can only really be judged with respect to what came before it, not after. Thats the most fair way I can objectively judge older games.
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited May 2013
    FF14, but it's a good thing that happened. It made Square step back and really question their methods. Of course, we still don't know anything about versus, but hopefully they learned something from FF14.
  • Rya_ReisenderRya_Reisender Solipsist Snowflake Full Members
    edited May 2013
    I wouldn't blame it on any game in particular. What has destroyed them was their will to always have the best graphics possibly and the fact that trying this these days requires too many resources. Their games ended up graphics only and outright boring.

    I don't get why no bigger developer has the courage to actually release 2D RPGs for non-handhelds.
  • ShayminShaymin The Gratitude Pokemon Full Members
    edited May 2013
    Is it fair to say that the *announcement* of FFXIV was enough to damage the brand? I mean it went "FINAL FANTASY XIV..."

    *fangasm*

    *...ONLINE"

    *rage*
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  • imercenaryimercenary Member Full Members
    edited May 2013
    Well it depends on what you mean by "damage".

    In terms of "damage" to the imagery of the series, Final Fantasy XIII/XIII-2/Lightning Returns is the worst. Direct sequels? MADNESS!

    In terms of "damage" to the fan base, Final Fantasy XIV actually did the most damage. Its no secret that Final Fantasy XI fans were looking forward to FFXIV; 'Look a HD sequel of FFXI! It even has the same looking races! (albeit under different names) What could POSSIBLY go wrong?' Well as it turns out, EVERYTHING. Say what you will about FFIV/FFVI/FFVII/FFIX fans, they're all petty rabble compared to the monthly subscription fee paying FFXI fans.

    In terms of "damage" for where the series is going, Final Fantasy Versus XIII effectively crippled the series. The game was announced when? 2006? And when is it being released? Oh whats that you say? There isn't a release date? A release window? Projection? Magic 8-Ball answer? "Try again later"
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited May 2013
    What has destroyed them was their will to always have the best graphics possibly and the fact that trying this these days requires too many resources. Their games ended up graphics only and outright boring.
    It's possible to do good graphics without going bankrupt (see my thread about Metro: Last Light), so inefficient use of resources would have to be the culprit, and that's essentially mismanagement. Some of Square's development practises are starting to sound an awful lot like 3D Realms: come up with a bunch of ideas, party, discuss how those ideas should be used, party, come up with more ideas, party, keep throwing ideas in a pile, party, then stitch those ideas together into a loose framework of assets when ownership calls for a crunch...or in the case of 3D Realms, party until there is no money left.
    Is it fair to say that the *announcement* of FF 11 was enough to damage the brand? I mean it went "FINAL FANTASY 11..."

    *fangasm*

    *...ONLINE"
    There we go!
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited May 2013
    omegabyte said:
    Considering that FF14 is the only game in the franchise to receive universally negative critical reviews and was released as a buggy, unfinished, and poorly translated mess, it has to be FF14.

    FF13 has been polarizing, sure, but its got just as many fans as it has haters, so I'd hardly say it's been detrimental to the overall brand. In fact, polarizing opinions can often be beneficial to a brand, not damaging. And since Vs 13 isn't out and likely never will be out, it really can't be seen as anything other than a broken promise. If it gets released and then sucks harder than FF14, I might change my tune.
    Splitting the fanbase down the middle and then piling two more sequels onto it isn't detrimental to the series? FFXIV was certainly more damaging, as the game was a farcical mess, but XIII has tarnished the band too.
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  • AngelonightAngelonight Member Full Members
    edited May 2013
    11, everything went to hell with 11.
    I feel that with each game after 11 the franchise has taken a hit.
    You have 11 the MMO
    12 the offline MMO, and the only new FF I haven't finished.
    13 which wasn't so bad if you could make it past the first 2/3 of the game
    13-2 which brought it back down again.
    And 14... enough said
    I can only hope that Lightning returns is decent and that at E3 SE huge anouncment truely will be huge.
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  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited May 2013
    Angelonight said:
    12 the offline MMO, and the only new FF I haven't finished.
    Not sure why people like to make FFXII out to be an offline MMO when it plays more like a BioWare game than any MMO I know of.
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited May 2013
    Probably because Square said they used a lot of MMO concepts in 12, so they think that means it's some kind of faux MMO.
  • omegabyteomegabyte He's just this guy, you know? RPGamer Staff
    edited May 2013
    SiliconNooB said:
    Splitting the fanbase down the middle and then piling two more sequels onto it isn't detrimental to the series? FFXIV was certainly more damaging, as the game was a farcical mess, but XIII has tarnished the band too.
    FFXI and FFXII did the exact same thing at the time of their release. The former is one of the only subscription-based MMOs still standing in the post-WoW world, and the latter, for some reason, became immensely more popular after FFXIII was released. This reaction to Final Fantasy is not new. It's been happening for over ten years and will probably continue to happen.

    It all goes back to the old adage, "you can't please all of the people all of the time." A polarizing game might be hated by some people, but it's equally loved by others. And as long as those games are SELLING (and they are), then there's no damage.
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  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited May 2013
    TG Barighm said:
    Probably because Square said they used a lot of MMO concepts in 12, so they think that means it's some kind of faux MMO.
    Square Enix says a lot of silly things.
  • smacdsmacd Full Members
    edited May 2013
    I dunno, it felt like an offline MMO to me, what with the "zones" and the way battles occurred. The people who don't see it baffle me as much as the people who don't think there is a vast difference between FF6 and FF7 in style and feel.
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited May 2013
    smacd said:
    I dunno, it felt like an offline MMO to me, what with the "zones" and the way battles occurred. The people who don't see it baffle me as much as the people who don't think there is a vast difference between FF6 and FF7 in style and feel.
    uhh no one is going to say its not a vast difference from FF6 and FF7, but it is also a vast difference from an MMO. The "zones" are no different than the area to area transitions you would find in many FF games. MMOs typically have a zone as one huge area, way larger than any location in FFXII. The combat pace you could say is similar, but as for how it actually plays it's much close to offline games like Knights of the Old Republic and Baldur's Gate than any MMO out there.
  • scorpio_7scorpio_7 Tactic's Ogre I choose u! Full Members
    edited May 2013
    FF 13 Made me want to commit suicide...

    13-2 Shoot me in the face....

    Lightning Returns: Bury me six feet under....

    Might be too much nerd rage in the above statements :)
  • OcelotOcelot is not declawed RPGamer Staff
    edited May 2013
    omegabyte said:
    FFXI and FFXII did the exact same thing at the time of their release. The former is one of the only subscription-based MMOs still standing in the post-WoW world, and the latter, for some reason, became immensely more popular after FFXIII was released.
    Wait, wait, does this mean I get to say I liked FFXII before it was cool to like FFXII? Well, give me lensless glasses and call me a hipster!
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