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Review - Dragon's Crown

omegabyteomegabyte He's just this guy, you know?RPGamer Staff
edited August 2013 in Latest Updates
Dragon's Crown doesn't believe in physics or biology, but that doesn't make it any less fun. Find out what to expect from Vanillaware's brawler/RPG hybrid in RPGamer's official review.

Read the review here
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Comments

  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited July 2013
    Well consider me hyped.
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited July 2013
    Given the game's art design, that should be OVER hyped. :P
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited July 2013
    TG Barighm said:
    Given the game's art design, that should be OVER hyped. :P
    Touch
  • NimNim _ Full Members
    edited July 2013
    A day one purchase once a Euro release is confirmed. Glad you guys enjoyed it.
  • BalanceBalance Member Full Members
    edited July 2013
    I haven't got either playstation platforms, but it's rare that this sortof game is developed or is even good, so it's definatelyon my wishlist. Heck I'll start saving now haha.
  • NimNim _ Full Members
    edited July 2013
    Game sold well in Japan. Around 175k units on Vita/PS3 combined. I'm happy for VW.
  • TyphaonTyphaon Member Full Members
    edited August 2013
    I've got it preordered looking forward to playing it.
    What I have seen and done to achieve my position defies belief. What I am capable of and will be party to in order to retain it would chill your soul.
  • RyumoauRyumoau Member Full Members
    edited August 2013
    At $50 and no cross buy, i think i'll pass for now. I wasn't that fond of Odin Sphere back on the ps2 so i'm not sure i will love this game. Besides it releases the same day as Xilia, which is a higher priority for me.
    "To die without leaving a corpse....that is the way of the Garo"
    PSN id: Ryumoau
  • omegabyteomegabyte He's just this guy, you know? RPGamer Staff
    edited August 2013
    Ryumoau said:
    At $50 and no cross buy, i think i'll pass for now. I wasn't that fond of Odin Sphere back on the ps2 so i'm not sure i will love this game. Besides it releases the same day as Xilia, which is a higher priority for me.
    It's nothing like Odin Sphere, not even remotely. It also runs infinitely better. No lag or framerate issues or anything like that.
    "It's okay to fail as long as you learn that you failed!" - Neptune, Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory
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  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited August 2013
    This game seems a lot better than I expected. Apparently it's got some good length and a plethora of deep RPG elements. It's also scoring very well on Metacritic (sorry, gotta keep track of this stuff with the fantasy pool game).
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member Full Members
    edited August 2013
    I may have to consider a purchase after I get some of the other games
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  • ironmageironmage chaotic neutral observer SaskatoonFull Members
    edited August 2013
    It's good to hear that Vanillaware has put out a solid game. I'm disappointed that the story is thin, but I enjoyed Oboromuramasa, despite it's minimal story. So, possibly a delayed purchase for me.
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  • DyneDyne Member Full Members
    edited August 2013
    I have to thank you two for not goosestepping with other gaming "journalists," devolving this review into some manufactured controversy over the state of female identity in video game development, screaming "misogyny" for the sake of garnering more page views. It's good to know some reviewers actually want to report on the game, not conflate their ideologies with the entirety of a particular game's quality.

    Just had to get that off my biologically unproportioned chest. The game looks great, but I echo Ryu's concerns over the price tag. Was not expecting to see it going for $50.
  • PimpaliciousPimpalicious Member Full Members
    edited August 2013
    I will be getting this somewhat soon. Tales of Xillia and Killer is Dead take priority for me but I am looking forward to this.
  • scorpio_7scorpio_7 Tactic's Ogre I choose u! Full Members
    edited August 2013
    Meh this is not one for me.. I am not a fan of the art style or gameplay type. So ultimately this would not be a positive experience for me as a result.
  • PawsPaws Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited August 2013
    Dyne said:
    I have to thank you two for not goosestepping with other gaming "journalists," devolving this review into some manufactured controversy over the state of female identity in video game development, screaming "misogyny" for the sake of garnering more page views. It's good to know some reviewers actually want to report on the game, not conflate their ideologies with the entirety of a particular game's quality.
    Or people can have a different reaction to the art. Don't come here and trash other sites whose reviews were endorsed by Atlus. That's pathetic.
  • omegabyteomegabyte He's just this guy, you know? RPGamer Staff
    edited August 2013
    Paws said:
    Or people can have a different reaction to the art. Don't come here and trash other sites whose reviews were endorsed by Atlus. That's pathetic.
    We bring up a lot of the same points anyways. There are some serious issues with some of the NPC designs. It's not really the playable characters that are the biggest problem, it's the NPCs during mid-dungeon cutscenes that are the most offensive. And some of them are pretty damn offensive. Three stand out in my mind as being particularly troublesome - the mermaid that shows a large amount of butt cleavage, the "spirit lady" who's effectively naked and wrapped in translucent sheets, and worst of all, the "warrior monk" who sits leaning against a wall with her legs spread wide apart.

    It's a perfectly legitimate complaint that's actually a lot worse than the original controversy made it out to be, and it's obviously going to be a bigger deal to some people than to others. I'm not easily offended, but some of this stuff was way over the top and completely unnecessary and unwarranted.
    "It's okay to fail as long as you learn that you failed!" - Neptune, Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory
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  • Confessor RahlConfessor Rahl Member Full Members
    edited August 2013
    Looks suuuper sexy. I loved Odin Sphere, and despite this being very different, Vanillaware has nailed it before and appears to have done so here. I'll buy.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • MaudrenMaudren i can post! thanx paws! Full Members
    edited August 2013
    omegabyte said:
    We bring up a lot of the same points anyways. There are some serious issues with some of the NPC designs. It's not really the playable characters that are the biggest problem, it's the NPCs during mid-dungeon cutscenes that are the most offensive. And some of them are pretty damn offensive. Three stand out in my mind as being particularly troublesome - the mermaid that shows a large amount of butt cleavage, the "spirit lady" who's effectively naked and wrapped in translucent sheets, and worst of all, the "warrior monk" who sits leaning against a wall with her legs spread wide apart.

    It's a perfectly legitimate complaint that's actually a lot worse than the original controversy made it out to be, and it's obviously going to be a bigger deal to some people than to others. I'm not easily offended, but some of this stuff was way over the top and completely unnecessary and unwarranted.
    Everything you just said makes me want the game even more. My body is so reggie it hurts.
    sup?
  • freykinfreykin Member Full Members
    edited August 2013
    Omegabyte, just did some searching around to see what you were talking about, and wow. That is pretty gratuitous, more than I expected, especially on the warrior monk type. It's frustrating to me as the gameplay looks excellent, but it's hard for me to want to purchase it with these sort of things in it. I know Japan has a different culture than the U.S., so it has somewhat of a different meaning behind it all, but this is enough for me to not be able to handwave it aside with that.
  • scorpio_7scorpio_7 Tactic's Ogre I choose u! Full Members
    edited August 2013
    omegabyte said:
    We bring up a lot of the same points anyways. There are some serious issues with some of the NPC designs. It's not really the playable characters that are the biggest problem, it's the NPCs during mid-dungeon cutscenes that are the most offensive. And some of them are pretty damn offensive. Three stand out in my mind as being particularly troublesome - the mermaid that shows a large amount of butt cleavage, the "spirit lady" who's effectively naked and wrapped in translucent sheets, and worst of all, the "warrior monk" who sits leaning against a wall with her legs spread wide apart.

    It's a perfectly legitimate complaint that's actually a lot worse than the original controversy made it out to be, and it's obviously going to be a bigger deal to some people than to others. I'm not easily offended, but some of this stuff was way over the top and completely unnecessary and unwarranted.
    I agree completely,

    For me personally I do take issue with this type of "art" as I wouldn't call it that... as it more closely resembles soft core porn. It makes me think about fantasy art from the 1980's, ultimately giving that entire genre a bad name back in the day. And by the art community of North American culture... it was considered obscene. For some people that might be a type of art, but for many more it is offensive.

    I studied art in university (bachelor of fine arts visual), and even the mention or idea of me doing any type of fantasy art as a project, was immediately shot down. Those who did try to include fantasy art... failed the project. When professors were questioned about the subject, they replied with examples of early fantasy art and the treatment of women as erotic objects instead of nudes/realism. It was considered not art and offensive at that level.

    If we are trying to push the envelope further, in making games more inclusive for both genders (and orientations) then this is definitely a step backwards. Art is one thing... but my next question is how are females (personality-wise) treated in the game? Are they clich
  • omegabyteomegabyte He's just this guy, you know? RPGamer Staff
    edited August 2013
    scorpio_7 said:
    I agree completely,

    For me personally I do take issue with this type of "art" as I wouldn't call it that... as it more closely resembles soft core porn. It makes me think about fantasy art from the 1980's, ultimately giving that entire genre a bad name back in the day. And by the art community of North American culture... it was considered obscene. For some people that might be a type of art, but for many more it is offensive.

    I studied art in university (bachelor of fine arts visual), and even the mention or idea of me doing any type of fantasy art as a project, was immediately shot down. Those who did try to include fantasy art... failed the project. When professors were questioned about the subject, they replied with examples of early fantasy art and the treatment of women as erotic objects instead of nudes/realism. It was considered not art and offensive at that level.

    If we are trying to push the envelope further, in making games more inclusive for both genders (and orientations) then this is definitely a step backwards. Art is one thing... but my next question is how are females (personality-wise) treated in the game? Are they clich
    "It's okay to fail as long as you learn that you failed!" - Neptune, Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory
    Follow me on Twitter
    Read my serialized, comedy-fantasy web novel, The Almanac of All Things - http://www.thealmanac.ca - Read All of Part One Now!
  • MinneyarMinneyar Member Full Members
    edited August 2013
    scorpio_7 said:
    For me personally I do take issue with this type of "art" as I wouldn't call it that... as it more closely resembles soft core porn. It makes me think about fantasy art from the 1980's, ultimately giving that entire genre a bad name back in the day. And by the art community of North American culture... it was considered obscene. For some people that might be a type of art, but for many more it is offensive.
    To be fair, North America has a reputation for being extremely conservative when it comes to opinions on sexuality in artwork. I mean, the word "Puritanical" means what it does for a reason.

    In my opinion, the game's art style is so exaggerated that it's not even sexy; it's a caricature of classic fantasy artwork and a homage to oldschool fantasy RPGs and brawlers.
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited August 2013
    In my opinion, the game's art style is so exaggerated that it's not even sexy; it's a caricature of classic fantasy artwork and a homage to oldschool fantasy RPGs and brawlers.
    Finally! Someone else gets it.

    I mean, come on, Witcher 2 has REAL nudity in it.
  • KiralynKiralyn Member Full Members
    edited August 2013
    scorpio_7 said:
    For me personally I do take issue with this type of "art" as I wouldn't call it that... as it more closely resembles soft core porn. It makes me think about fantasy art from the 1980's, ultimately giving that entire genre a bad name back in the day. And by the art community of North American culture... it was considered obscene. For some people that might be a type of art, but for many more it is offensive.
    Hmm. I grew up playing fantasy games & reading fantasy novels through that period (late 70's/80's/etc), and I don't recall people having that horrible an attitude towards it. But, then, this was at the consumer level, not the highly-opinionated realm of art instruction & criticism.

    And like I said, I grew up with that stuff, which leads me to be somewhat bored/disappointed by the frequent "realistic" / grey / drab, clothing & armor styles in many games these days. I miss that stuff..... not to the level of what Dragon's Crown has done, but still - it was disappointing how dull the armors are in Neverwinter Online, for instance.
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited August 2013
    Minneyar said:
    In my opinion, the game's art style is so exaggerated that it's not even sexy; it's a caricature of classic fantasy artwork and a homage to oldschool fantasy RPGs and brawlers.
    I'd have to agree with that as far as the player characters go, but that npc stuff is just completely unnecessary and not a caricature of anything really. That said, sounds like it thankfully doesn't pop up too often.
  • OcelotOcelot is not declawed RPGamer Staff
    edited August 2013
    TG Barighm said:
    Finally! Someone else gets it.

    I mean, come on, Witcher 2 has REAL nudity in it.
    For many of us, it's not about Puritanism or a problem with sexuality in games. I loved the sex scene in the fountain between Geralt and Triss in The Witcher 2, and I have a genuine appreciation for the rare games that depict sexuality in an interesting and mature manner.

    For me and many other people (male and female) who critique video game art, it's an issue of power and objectification. I actually thought Dragon Crown's Amazon model was interesting (especially when depicted with the very small breasts like those you see on female weightlifters), but the Sorceress was just too close to the usual depiction of video game women in a disempowering manner. There is a huge difference between depictions of women who have their own goals and minds, and sexuality is part of those lives, and those that are added into games and treated like objects with no purpose other than to please a certain kind of male audience.

    It's more than possible to design interesting, attractive, even sexy armors for men and women in a way that isn't disempowering. Most of the world is aware of the fact that attractiveness/sexiness isn't about taking most of your clothes off during inappropriate situations. In fact, quite a few Japanese games manage to hit that happy medium in which female characters are wearing armour that is interesting and attractive but not exploitative. I'm particularly fond of the Suikoden series for that kind of design. The women in Suikoden are dressed first and foremost according to their character's personality, and the wide diversity of dress found amongst the games' casts has many great examples of lovely armours worn by women who have their own minds and goals in life beyond being eye candy for (certain) male players.

    And I say certain male players because a lot of dudes are pretty grossed out by art that objectifies women, too.

    This is one of my favourite places on the web: Women Fighters In Reasonable Armor. You can see art that depicts women who range from traditionally feminine to action hero attitude-style, wearing combat gear that actually protects them. While I don't think every female character needs to be covered that fully in a fantasy setting, these images are excellent proof that women are just as beautiful and sexy when they're dressed appropriately for battle.
    Becky Cunningham, Staff-at-Large
    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited August 2013
    As an armor and medieval weapon collector (my collection sucks though), I can honestly say it's very annoying to see armors misrepresented in such a way, but that doesn't change the fact Dragon's Crown was clearly designed to be a silly game and not meant to be taken seriously. Now, if you'd like to knock Agarest War, its boobies mousepads, and its "We got skin!" marketing slogan (or something like that), you go right ahead.

    And I find it odd you think the Amazon is okay but the Sorceress is wrong, like big jugs is automatic proof of disempowerment (immaturity, sure) but an inflated butt is not. The Sorceress kicks all kinds of butt. This woman is pretty darn smart too.
    And I say certain male players because a lot of dudes are pretty grossed out by art that objectifies women, too.
    Ask them again when there are no women around.
  • scorpio_7scorpio_7 Tactic's Ogre I choose u! Full Members
    edited August 2013
    TG Barighm said:
    As an armor and medieval weapon collector (my collection sucks though), I can honestly say it's very annoying to see armors misrepresented in such a way, but that doesn't change the fact Dragon's Crown was clearly designed to be a silly game and not meant to be taken seriously. Now, if you'd like to knock Agarest War, its boobies mousepads, and its "We got skin!" marketing slogan (or something like that), you go right ahead.

    And I find it odd you think the Amazon is okay but the Sorceress is wrong, like big jugs is automatic proof of disempowerment (immaturity, sure) but an inflated butt is not. The Sorceress kicks all kinds of butt. This woman is pretty darn smart too.



    Ask them again when there are no women around.
    Well there's no women around me when I'm on the internet. I would say the same thing on here as I would in real life. And for that matter most of the guys I hang out with express similar opinions. Any straight male enjoys looking at a sexy female character... but that does not mean that she has to be portrayed in an obscene matter. Sexy can be achieved in many ways, objectifying women does not make them sexy... it makes them fake.

    I would much rather see more realistic depictions of women in appropriate outfits that can still give them sex-appeal, rather than what is at times portrayed in this game... as well as other games like the Agarest series.
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited August 2013
    So, you prefer more realistic games? Okay, that's fine, but can't we just file Dragon's Crown under the "not made for you" category? It's a sentiment I've seen used many times around this website, and it's perfectly apt here. When they start packing blow-up dolls with the game, then we can talk.

    Honestly, my issue here has nothing to do with the art, but with people constantly talking about this stuff when all I want to do is learn more about the game. Wasn't there another thread for this?

    Now, is there anyone who actually wants to play the game that would like to talk about it?
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