If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Forum Rules. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Welcome to RPGamer's new forums running under Vanilla Forums! If you're run into any odd or strange issues after our software migration please see this thread for details

Drakengard 3 Releasing in North America, Europe in 2014

MacstormMacstorm Ysy St.Administrators
edited October 2013 in Latest Updates
Did you love Nier? Many of the same team from that game are working on Drakengard 3, which is now confirmed for an English release.

Story
"The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
Twitter @FinalMacstorm

Comments

  • riulynriulyn Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    I'm super glad this is coming over! I will probably preorder it too.
  • esukoesuko Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    I am super happy for this announcement. :glee:
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited October 2013
    I'm super giddy right now.
    User Database Check
    Current Month and Year: March 2010
    Spammer-Banning Battle Theme: Climactic Battle
    Number of Spammers banned: An ungodly number
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited October 2013
    I cannot stop listening to the music from the trailer.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • DeadBowDeadBow New Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    Very exited. Now the question is, do I go back and try to complete the first 2 before this one comes out? I hear the gameplay is not very good. Then again people said the same thing about Nier, and I ended up really enjoying it, gameplay and all. I could always just watch the story line on youtube, but it's a prequel so maybe it won't be necessary. Decisions, decisions.
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    Blarg. Hope it finds its way to PS4 in some way.

    Wish it had a more concrete date so I could update the fantasy pool.
  • The Last PaladinThe Last Paladin Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    As much as I love Nier, having the same people work on another game doesn't necessarily means that I will like this one (I been burned before with that kind of thinking). I never tried any games of this series, but I know it has a cult following. I guess I may give this one a try, but won't get my hopes up.
  • ironmageironmage chaotic neutral observer SaskatoonFull Members
    edited October 2013
    I was a big fan of Nier, but after watching the trailer, I don't even care if they're spiritually related or not. I would buy this for the music alone.
    Only the livin' have the privilege of sayin' they'll fight ta the last breath.
    And words like conviction and resolve don't mean much to a dead man...
    --Raven (Tales of Vesperia)
  • Agent RiotAgent Riot New Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    I wasn't sure it would come over, but im super happy now! But i must be fair and be a little sad because EU only get's an digital copy not a retail disc, wich is too bad. I'll try to import from you guy's. But all in all glad that i atleast get to play it ^_~
    "There is no growth without birth. Without a foothold in the past, we cannot walk towards the future. Get thee gone, Darkness!!" - Ashley Riot.
  • SlayerSlayer Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    I'm so happy I could plant a flower in my eye.
  • Confessor RahlConfessor Rahl Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    Is the Drakengard series really so beloved here? I found it to be painfully dull, with a mediocre story, mediocre hack and slash/flight gameplay, and pretty mediocre visuals overall. Nier was incredible but what am I missing here?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    www.powerlinemag.com

    "I remember back when FF9 was coming out. People were rejoicing because it was actually a fantasy game and not a sci-fi game like 7 and 8. It's especially hilarious given modern context, with everyone wanking themselves to dehydration at the thought of an FF7 remake." - Masterchief
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited October 2013
    Confessor Rahl said:
    Is the Drakengard series really so beloved here? I found it to be painfully dull, with a mediocre story, mediocre hack and slash/flight gameplay, and pretty mediocre visuals overall. Nier was incredible but what am I missing here?
    They're a pretty big departure from normal JRPGs, especially the first one in terms of how dark it gets (0incest feelings, rape, murder, most of the cast are psychotic in some fashion, etc.). Drakengard 2 fixed numerous problems that Drakengard 1 had, along with keeping some of the feeling the fans felt from the first game into the 2nd one. Or at least, that's how I feel about it.
    User Database Check
    Current Month and Year: March 2010
    Spammer-Banning Battle Theme: Climactic Battle
    Number of Spammers banned: An ungodly number
  • JormungandJormungand Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    Drakengard's soundtrack is to video game music what Pink Floyd is to rock.
    NIER's soundtrack is to video game music what Miley Cyrus is to pop.

    It's a matter of art versus The Next Biggest Fad.

    Anyway, I won't get my way with D3 unfortunately retaining the same composer from NIER (and the trailers indicate he hasn't gotten any better), and clearly the trend toward more mass-appeal action is being sustained in D3. But I can still hope for the story to be classic Drakengard. Unfortunately director Yoko Taro has committed a serious offense in not retaining Sawako Natori as his scenario writer. She is the reason Drakengard and NIER had such awesome stories to begin with. Still, Taro did commission a novel from her specifically for D3's backstory, so he bought himself at least some salvation.

    You see, I love the original Drakengard gameplay. Enemy hordes (hordes, not gangs), weapon leveling with kills and not collectibles (a terrible, terrible system), many interesting and varied weapon classes (how many games do you know of have their own poleaxe category?)... I love NIER, I really do--but it took almost all of what I loved about Drakengard and undid it.
  • The Last PaladinThe Last Paladin Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    Jormungand said:
    Drakengard's soundtrack is to video game music what Pink Floyd is to rock.
    NIER's soundtrack is to video game music what Miley Cyrus is to pop.

    Yeah...You lost me after this...
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited October 2013
    Say what you will about Nier the game, but comparing the OST to Miley Cyrus is crazy talk.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited October 2013
    In Hell they play Hills of Radiant Winds on loop.
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    That's my second favourite song in the game...
  • JormungandJormungand Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    Macstorm said:
    Say what you will about Nier the game, but comparing the OST to Miley Cyrus is crazy talk.
    I ought to have instead compared it to mainstream pop in general. That's NIER's OST: mass appeal, low-risk, over-produced, lacking in development, and relying on pat chord progressions which repeat endlessly (across multiple tracks). Fans will of course balk at using musical analysis to criticize the OST, insisting that "as long as it sounds good", it is therefore of quality.

    And, well, fans of any given pop singer/group will use the same logic when you tell them that their favorite music is really awful. Just imagine the most insipid, barebones, trite music that is so wildly popular all you can do is eye-roll and hope the fad goes away soon. That's NIER's OST to me.

    I was tricked at first. I found the village theme very pleasant when I began playing the game. When entering NIER's house I thought, "Oh, OK, it's just a remix of the village theme". More specifically, I quickly realized the music in the game was synced precisely to the gameplay--the village theme and the house theme, for example, are exactly the same song in the same key and tempo, just different instrumentation, and so when entering the house, the new music theme picks off where the village theme left off. This was a deliberate game/audio design choice. This point has relevance later.

    I got to the field outside for my first taste of Hills of Radiant Winds. At first it seemed quite lovely. Then I became quickly disappointed at how little actually happens... a rather dull chord progression, tom drum loops that don't change, a melodramatic melody, etc. It's a minute and ten seconds of not much at all. But hey, that village theme was really nice, maybe this is just a fluke.

    "City of Commerce", heard at that seaside town, seemed interesting at first... till I realized that it was just a retread of Hills of Radiant Winds. By this time in the game I had really had enough of that theme.

    Once I got to Kaine's hometown, whatever it was called, and heard that embarrassingly amateurish looping choral chord progression, I knew something just wasn't quite right with the soundtrack. By the time I reached the tower, I realized that what I was listening to was a hollow shell of what should have been a great soundtrack for a great game. There's literally nothing to it, except perhaps the original version of Song of the Ancients, and even that piece overstays its welcome as the plot progresses and the theme is milked beyond what its musical substance could possibly support.

    And aside from that one saving grace, the rest is a mish-mash of simplistic loops, chord progressions stolen from Western and Japanese pop music alike, and poorly conceived electronic passages masquerading as "experimental music".

    I can be pretty lenient in cases like this. At first I thought, well, maybe it's that purposeful audio design, where the music needs to easily flow together and blend during gameplay, that caused it to be so dull. But it's a difficult side to take when listening to the music. I just can't seriously defend the vast majority of the OST.

    I was so disappointed when NIER's music became the highlight of the game for many players. Director Yoko Taro mentioned this in an interview, lamenting that the most talked-about aspect of the game was its music. The OST spawned several remix albums, being quite successful financially. So of course it's little surprise that Okabe was brought onboard for D3.

    Its popularity, however, is not inexplicable. It's the same reason people flock, in reactive mobs, to names like Yuki Kajiura. And, though it encompasses an entirely different medium, Miley Cyrus. There's an element of instant gratification to such music: it's candy.

    Of course, lots of people like candy, and it's OK to like or not like it. Either way, I hope I've clarified my position.
  • NimNim _ Full Members
    edited October 2013
    I was happy, then I read digital only release in Europe.
  • TG BarighmTG Barighm Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    Fans will of course balk at using musical analysis to criticize the OST, insisting that "as long as it sounds good", it is therefore of quality.
    Ah, a critic. Well, just because you can analyze it doesn't change the fact it's your opinion. I mean, really, "as long as it sounds good" is all we're looking for (is there any other reason?). Just because something is a technical failure (ever play Elder Scrolls?) doesn't mean its a total failure; by all rights, the opposite is just a true. In my experience, being an expert in a field doesn't make your taste better than anyone else's (well, outside of cooking). If it was, than Uwe Boll would have much better taste in movies than all of us put together because, you know, he's actually made a bunch of movies.

    And I thought the story was Nier's most talked about aspect. It's all I ever hear about. The OST has some nice tracks but it's not so great overall to warrant that much praise.
  • ironmageironmage chaotic neutral observer SaskatoonFull Members
    edited October 2013
    (Disclaimer: I quite liked Nier's music, although I thought some of it was a bit repetitive).
    Jormungand said:
    I ought to have instead compared it to mainstream pop in general. That's NIER's OST: mass appeal, low-risk, over-produced, lacking in development, and relying on pat chord progressions which repeat endlessly (across multiple tracks). Fans will of course balk at using musical analysis to criticize the OST, insisting that "as long as it sounds good", it is therefore of quality.
    Well, consider that many people (myself included) simply lack the necessary musical training (or even aptitude) to perform such an analysis. I can recognize a leitmotif or two from Der Ring Das Nibelungen, but that's about my limit.

    To develop the ability to analyze music critically, I would need to practice actively listening to music, instead of absorbing it passively. But I usually play games to relax, and adding another element to focus on would be counter to my purpose.

    When I'm playing a game, my criteria for music are usually pretty simple: 1) Is the music interesting to listen to, and 2) Does it evoke an emotion appropriate to the context?

    I'm not happy that I don't have the ability to recognize overused themes, or cliched chord progressions, but I'm not also not happy that I can't speak Latin, or fix an automatic transmission. I am not the master of all swords.

    If you say that Nier's music is technically flawed, I can accept that; I lack the facility to contradict it. But, it doesn't mean I like it any less. I will try to listen to it a bit more critically on my next playthrough, though.

    Please continue to post critiques like this on this forum.
    Only the livin' have the privilege of sayin' they'll fight ta the last breath.
    And words like conviction and resolve don't mean much to a dead man...
    --Raven (Tales of Vesperia)
  • JormungandJormungand Member Full Members
    edited October 2013
    TG Barighm said:
    Well, just because you can analyze it doesn't change the fact it's your opinion... Just because something is a technical failure (ever play Elder Scrolls?) doesn't mean its a total failure; by all rights, the opposite is just a true. In my experience, being an expert in a field doesn't make your taste better than anyone else's (well, outside of cooking).
    You're right, and I hope I haven't suggested anything to the contrary. Although I'll call you out on the cooking thing, I think that anyone who puts anything besides cheese on a cheeseburger is crazy. :p
    I mean, really, "as long as it sounds good" is all we're looking for (is there any other reason?)
    There are other reasons. Skyrim and Crysis have beautifully made worlds--they are very realistic and have excellent graphical fidelity for the time they were developed. Xenoblade does not have excellent graphical fidelity for time it was developed, but is still just as beautiful as both aforementioned titles because of the creativity put into designing each field and dungeon. So, when considering the visuals of a game, yes, we certainly should be asking ourselves more than "does it look good?" (or rather, the question itself has more depth than one element of what we look at, such as graphics vs. creativity). It is the same with music.
    And I thought the story was Nier's most talked about aspect. It's all I ever hear about. The OST has some nice tracks but it's not so great overall to warrant that much praise.
    The music is widely beloved. I tend to see more articles about NIER's music than just about the story or any other aspect. Comments sections and forum threads are filled with praise for the music.

    Well, consider this for comparison. vgmdb.net is a useful gauge of VGM fandom (at least those of us who actually buy the stuff). We do have a rating system, so you might think of that aspect like a metacritic for VGM (as useful as such a feature could possibly be, if at all). NIER's OST sits at an impression 4.51 (out of 5) with 81 ratings. Final Fantasy VI? 4.65 by 85 ratings. (and if FF6 isn't your cup of tea, replace it with your FF OST of choice and I believe you'll find similar results).

    Now, I'm not suggesting anything of the quality of NIER vs. FF. I am really pointing out that, even though FF is unarguably the more popular series (with similarly and regularly praised music, whether it's actually good or not), NIER is right up there alongside it.
    ironmage said:
    Well, consider that many people (myself included) simply lack the necessary musical training (or even aptitude) to perform such an analysis. I can recognize a leitmotif or two from Der Ring Das Nibelungen, but that's about my limit... I'm not happy that I don't have the ability to recognize overused themes, or cliched chord progressions, but I'm not also not happy that I can't speak Latin, or fix an automatic transmission. I am not the master of all swords.
    I understand. My intention wasn't to belittle anyone without musical training. I'll explain a bit more below...
    To develop the ability to analyze music critically, I would need to practice actively listening to music, instead of absorbing it passively. But I usually play games to relax, and adding another element to focus on would be counter to my purpose.
    I play games for the same reason. The problem is... I can't turn off that part of my brain. If it's music, anywhere, for any reason, I cannot tune it out. I am wired to receive music, process it, and think about it. Often I pause my play just to listen to music (and it could be for many reasons: I enjoy it, I think it's so awful I can't believe what I'm hearing, I'm sure I've heard that somewhere before, Is someone playing a live instrument at that part, Is that a sample from an audio library, I want to hear that catchy part again, Is that a theme from the previous game in the series, I recognize that style and I bet this composer wrote it, etc.)

    And it's not just in games. Movies, television, when I go to the mall, etc. Sometimes when I'm watching a movie or something I'll have to pause and rewind because I had been focusing so intently on the music I didn't pay attention to the dialogue. :p

    Thus, I tend to have more to say about a game's music than any other aspect. It's both because of my training in the area (more specifically that I am also a composer by trade), and also that music is simply just what I do. I have to. Of course the extent to which I actively put my thoughts out there can be controlled. Speaking of which...
    If you say that Nier's music is technically flawed, I can accept that; I lack the facility to contradict it. But, it doesn't mean I like it any less. I will try to listen to it a bit more critically on my next playthrough, though.
    I appreciate your position. I think that's a good message to anyone, that the more we think about particular aspects of a game, the more we can form clearer thoughts about it and therefore develop language that helps us talk about it. This is true for anything, really. Sometimes we just want to tune out; but by actively thinking about the things we do (even for entertainment), we are doing ourselves an invaluable service.
    Please continue to post critiques like this on this forum.
    As it turns out, over the years, I've been trying to comment less about game music. It's what I love and it's something I want to talk about all the time, but unfortunately music is sometimes held as irrationally sacred to some people. (I am not suggesting anyone here is like that!) It's nearly impossible to explain my criticisms of music without someone eventually thinking I am [insert adjective that describes a stereotypical art snob], despite the fact that expertise in other fields (programming, network architecture, etc.) is usually well-received and respected (sometimes even asked for!)

    I often read the music section of reviews here and at other sites (so long as it's a game I know). I used to challenge authors' viewpoints on game music, though I hardly think I changed any minds. It always bugs me that the music section of most reviews is so barren (often it's only a sentence long, and even then it's sometimes combined with the sound effects and voice acting!) But these same reviews often have at least a paragraph describing the visuals, or perhaps the quality of the story. And yet, surely not all these authors are experts in those areas. So it's not that lack of expertise is getting in the way of a review (or any player, really) saying more about the music. What it tells me is that music, on the whole, seems a less important aspect of a game to most players. And yet our reactions to having our favorite music criticized can be extreme. Is it just that people have more words to use to describe a game's visuals or story? Do they not have enough practice talking about music? Or is it really believed that music just isn't as important?

    (In recent years, I've stayed away from commenting on the authors' opinion on the music. Instead I will focus on correcting any inaccuracies about composers, arrangers, instruments, styles, things like that.)

    I think art literacy in general needs to be improved in schools. We learn about the mechanics of language as a general rule, and learn to master speaking it and (hopefully) writing it. Yet children in public schools spend only 60 minutes per week in art or music class (and that's just in the districts that still require such classes), and only a small portion of that time is spent actually talking about and understanding the mechanics of those arts. Entire classes devoted to other arts, like dance and theater, are often pushed out of elementary entirely and relegated to middle and high school as electives.

    And now I'm going off-topic and will force myself to stop. :)
  • ironmageironmage chaotic neutral observer SaskatoonFull Members
    edited October 2013
    Jormungand said:

    As it turns out, over the years, I've been trying to comment less about game music. It's what I love and it's something I want to talk about all the time, but unfortunately music is sometimes held as irrationally sacred to some people. (I am not suggesting anyone here is like that!) It's nearly impossible to explain my criticisms of music without someone eventually thinking I am [insert adjective that describes a stereotypical art snob]...
    The thing is, I like to hear the opinions of someone who has training or ability that exceeds my own, even if I disagree with those opinions. It gives me the opportunity to learn something, or at least extend my perspective.

    But, I don't think my position is commonly shared. Because music is used to evoke emotion, people become emotionally invested in it, and it's very easy to interpret a criticism of something you're attached to as a personal attack. I can't blame you for wanting to avoid the inevitable flamewars.
    Only the livin' have the privilege of sayin' they'll fight ta the last breath.
    And words like conviction and resolve don't mean much to a dead man...
    --Raven (Tales of Vesperia)
Sign In or Register to comment.