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RPG Backtrack: Episode 112 - You're a Real Ogre

JuMeSynJuMeSyn Code: KirinAdministrators
edited March 2014 in Latest Updates
An early Yasumi Matsuno title on the SNES remains a complex and rewarding experience, while its direct sequel provides one of the few opportunities we get to discuss something on the N64. Enjoy this discussion of some tactical goodness that doesn't play by the usual rules.
Stupid werewolf.
It's not what he's eating, but what's eating him that makes it ... sort of interesting.

Comments

  • VonBeardlyVonBeardly Beard God Full Members
    edited February 2014
    In Ogre Battle I remember getting the 3 high knights and Galf in one group with my hero and just destroying every enemy group after that. Pretty sure I got every ending in the game.
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  • lolwhoopslolwhoops Member HalifaxFull Members
    edited February 2014
    Ogre Battle 64 is one of my favourite games and one of the first S(T)RPGs I ever played. It helped make that little niche my favourite. I bought it on the Wii shop and played the crap out of it, but I would much prefer to have it on my 3DS just because my Wii is never hooked up. I remember exploiting glitches to duplicate items because my main teams were so strong that they all tended toward C and when I wanted something different I had to pump the nature changing items into my groups. Also I cheaped out and made my weaker characters stronger in a mostly vain attempt to keep my forces balanced.

    I want to play it again now.
    lolwhoops: a Gamer's Blog
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  • GaijinMonogatariGaijinMonogatari RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
    I'm really amazed that more companies haven't been converting the better N64, PSX, or PS2 titles to 3DS and Vita. There's got to be money in it for S-E beyond the current spate of Dragon Quest remakes.
  • jcservantjcservant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
    Agreed, Gaijin. It blows my mind, as well. I would scoop up a 3DS remake of this SOOOO fast, it would make their head spin. Done well, I would even pay normal cart price for it.
  • goateguygoateguy Member Full Members
    edited February 2014
    Ah yes, another fine episode of RPG Backtrack. I "found" Ogre Tactics years ago while in college and could only get like 30 minutes into the game because it made no sense. If this episode had come out 4-6 years ago, I would have had a much better go of it. Now i need to "find" it again and play it on my laptop. In regards to the comment of my "dedication" being tested by Episode 28 Super Robot Taisen: Original Generation , it was actually pretty good. It wasnt a hard slog at all. Unfortunately I can't say the same of Episode 33 Harvest Moon which was shorter but surprisingly more dry. Maybe it is just how all the games start to blur together?
    If I don't make it home, tell my wife I said Hello.

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  • ShayminShaymin The Gratitude Pokemon Full Members
    edited February 2014
    Shame you couldn't get Mac and Glenn on for this one, since they covered these games in the 2nd Backtrack and it'd be interesting to see if their views changed.
    "The flowers all over its body burst into bloom if it is lovingly hugged and senses gratitude."
    Twitter | A gaming podcast by grownups
  • jcservantjcservant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
    Indeed. Mac is super busy these days and Glenn doesn't love me any more because I was an 'ogre' to him. HAHahahah!

    Bah. If they're opinion was anything but "Ogre Battle ROCKS! Get it NOW!" it was wrong. Period. :P
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited February 2014
    Shaymin said:
    Shame you couldn't get Mac and Glenn on for this one, since they covered these games in the 2nd Backtrack and it'd be interesting to see if their views changed.
    I can say that my thoughts are the same now as they were then. Glenn might have a different opinion on them, but I'm at least glad that Tactics Ogre was remade...even if I haven't gotten around to it yet. :(
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • 7thCircle7thCircle RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
    Shaymin said:
    Shame you couldn't get Mac and Glenn on for this one, since they covered these games in the 2nd Backtrack and it'd be interesting to see if their views changed.
    I replayed OB64 a couple of years ago and was pleasantly surprised that I still had a blast. It remains one of my favorite tactics games. Of anything, my latest playthrough reinforced all the positive opinions I've expressed on it in the past.

    I played the TO PSP remake and didn't think it was all that special. I finished it and had fun, but wasn't floored by it the way I was floored by TO on the PS1. All of the mechanics were different and it felt like a new game that recycled TO's story, not a remake of TO. I thought branding it as a remake was deceptive since gamers will play the PSP one and think it's like the PS1 original, which it isn't.
    The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions.
  • SeraphimKittenSeraphimKitten President of Soft Paws Full Members
    edited February 2014
    Ooooh, luring me back into RPG Backtrack listening by using the magic words "Yasumi Matsuno." You are fighting dirty, sir, but I will be adding this podcast to my playlist for my walk tomorrow. (Didn't RPG Backtrack already do the Ogre games years ago, though?)
  • jcservantjcservant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
    SeraphimKitten said:
    Ooooh, luring me back into RPG Backtrack listening by using the magic words "Yasumi Matsuno." You are fighting dirty, sir, but I will be adding this podcast to my playlist for my walk tomorrow.
    Awesome. Then we did our job!
    (Didn't RPG Backtrack already do the Ogre games years ago, though?)
    Indeed. But Ogre Battle is THAT awesome! Well, that and we had a new gen of staffies who wanted to talk about it!
  • SeraphimKittenSeraphimKitten President of Soft Paws Full Members
    edited February 2014
    What I liked about Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen is that you're the aggressor. The Black Queen approaches Zenobia about forming an alliance before Lodis arrives, and Zenobia betrays her and tries to take over the Zetegenian Empire. They manage to get all the way to the Zetegenian capital before she's forced to make a deal with the dark make, Rashidi, and they push you all the way back to Zenobia, finally killing Zenobia's evil king that started it all. It's nice to be a part of the evil empire for once.

    My favourite part of Ogre Battle 64 was taking the special characters to certain towns to see their back stories. You hear that Biske is a werewolf serial killer that your dad finally stopped if you play the lawful route. If you go chaotic, you can take him back to the church and you find out that your dad was there killing nuns and clergy and Biske tried to fight off your dad and the soldiers and does manage to save many of the nuns. He even gets an ending where he runs off with Liedel the Archer after the war and gets married.

    A small correction, there's still a princess class in this version, but it takes a long side quest about a man who dies and wants you to find his long-lost love. Most classes, once you've found one set, you can make as many of that class as you want. Special classes and Black Knights will require one specific item per character you want to be that class. So you can get more than one Lich, but you won't find more than two Rings of the Dead.

    My second favourite part? If you take the non-Zenobian route and go extra evil, after the last battle as the credits start they'll be interrupted by a battle where Zenobians try to assassinate you. I think the battle description is just "The road is blocked by units the likes of which god has never seen!" Of course, sticking with the evil theme, I'd used the Love&Peace item to recruit satyrs and ogres to make my own Ogre Battle.

    I think I'd beaten the game on both paths and watched my wife and friends beat the game numerous other times before someone clicked Tutorial and I got to see Deneb in Ogre Battle 64. So she's in every Ogre game, with Gilbert coming in a close second with all but Knight of Lodis.
  • TwinBahamutTwinBahamut Staff Healer RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
    jcservant said:
    Awesome. Then we did our job!



    Indeed. But Ogre Battle is THAT awesome! Well, that and we had a new gen of staffies who wanted to talk about it!
    Sadly, not all of us were able to talk about it (or rather, hear my fellow staffies talk about it). Too bad.

    At least I can use this space to say that I enjoyed Ogre Battle 64 quite a bit, even if waiting until that one hour per month you can buy an important item and accidentally missing it (somehow) is kind of annoying. Also, it really needs to be said that legions are useless. Still, I need to play both of these games some more someday.
  • SeraphimKittenSeraphimKitten President of Soft Paws Full Members
    edited February 2014
    Yeah, legions are definitely useless - even when the enemy unveils them and tries to look impressive, you can immediately tell how weak they are. It's 4 units that can't act independently anymore, with a gooey center of soldiers. What I did in my last play through was use several female valkyrie's to raise soldiers to real troops 10 times each. That way, when legions unlocked, all of those valkyrie could evolve into Centurions. They don't hit as often as paladins, but I always find myself flooded with powerful swords and shields - and now I had a bunch of female melee fighters who could put them to use. Well, in addition to the flight of Seraphim I would keep around to fly over castle walls.
  • jcservantjcservant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
    TwinBahamut said:
    Sadly, not all of us were able to talk about it (or rather, hear my fellow staffies talk about it). Too bad.

    At least I can use this space to say that I enjoyed Ogre Battle 64 quite a bit, even if waiting until that one hour per month you can buy an important item and accidentally missing it (somehow) is kind of annoying. Also, it really needs to be said that legions are useless. Still, I need to play both of these games some more someday.
    And when you do, I would be elated to give you time during one of our Final Laps to gush all about it! Don't worry! The window of opportunity is open as long as we are still doing RPGBacktracks!

    Lots of good comments. I love it! There will be a lot of reading of notes on air on the next show!
  • Jmustang1968Jmustang1968 RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
    Ah yes I was mistaken, there is a princess. I wasnt quite as refreshed on ob64 as I was MotBQ, as it has been some years since I last played. Replaying that is on my to do list for the near future.

    And Glenn, I think SE did an excellent job on the PSP remake, and for the most part, improved Tactics Ogre from the SFC/ PS1 version. Cleaned up dialogue, more special abilities, no need for training etc...
  • jcservantjcservant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
    I would agree (though we didn't really talk about Tactics Ogre on this one). Having played both, personally, I felt the difference between the two was night and day.
  • SeraphimKittenSeraphimKitten President of Soft Paws Full Members
    edited February 2014
    Jmustang1968 said:
    Ah yes I was mistaken, there is a princess. I wasnt quite as refreshed on ob64 as I was MotBQ, as it has been some years since I last played. Replaying that is on my to do list for the near future.
    It was easy to forget with how long the side quest is. One run-through I stuck my lone princess, lone, dragoon, lone Grappler (Vad), and two liches in a party. Just like the original ogre battle, if you're using more than one lich/princess in a party, you've hit the overkill point.

    If you're going to replay it and you'd like suggestions on fun combinations, let me know! With Sheen's silly hat you can farm a lot of Love&Peace items, letting you grab satyrs and black knights. Satyrs can lead an army (and become healers if you give them a holy hammer). You can face neutral ogres on another level and recruit them (or kill them for Ogre Blades). So you can have an army led by a satyr with two ogres, and the satyr will keep healing the ogres up while they squash your enemies. The Gallant Doll you get for viewing your birthday has stats based on the main character, so you can have one dollmaster/enchanter that's super powered, too. There were so many weird, quirky things about that game. I'd see people play the game and get items that I'd never seen before. Watching my wife play the same route I'd played, she had different encounters based how her being "extra extra lawful" at that point instead of just "lawful." I need to finish all the post-game content in Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together before I dust off Ogre Battle 64, but if you're already headed in that direction, I can tell you what I'd try out!
  • My_Lost_WingMy_Lost_Wing Member Full Members
    edited February 2014
    All this Ogre Battle talk is really making me wish there were a new game in the series (Especially in the Ogre Battle/OgreBattle 64 style).
    Currently Playing:

    Soul Historia
    Fortuna Magus
    Final Fantasy Dimensions
    Dragon Age Inquisition




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  • Jmustang1968Jmustang1968 RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
    SeraphimKitten said:
    It was easy to forget with how long the side quest is. One run-through I stuck my lone princess, lone, dragoon, lone Grappler (Vad), and two liches in a party. Just like the original ogre battle, if you're using more than one lich/princess in a party, you've hit the overkill point.

    If you're going to replay it and you'd like suggestions on fun combinations, let me know! With Sheen's silly hat you can farm a lot of Love&Peace items, letting you grab satyrs and black knights. Satyrs can lead an army (and become healers if you give them a holy hammer). You can face neutral ogres on another level and recruit them (or kill them for Ogre Blades). So you can have an army led by a satyr with two ogres, and the satyr will keep healing the ogres up while they squash your enemies. The Gallant Doll you get for viewing your birthday has stats based on the main character, so you can have one dollmaster/enchanter that's super powered, too. There were so many weird, quirky things about that game. I'd see people play the game and get items that I'd never seen before. Watching my wife play the same route I'd played, she had different encounters based how her being "extra extra lawful" at that point instead of just "lawful." I need to finish all the post-game content in Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together before I dust off Ogre Battle 64, but if you're already headed in that direction, I can tell you what I'd try out!
    Thanks for the offer, I very well may take you up on that! I have all the unit make up strats down, but some of the hidden item stuff I may not have all down.
  • Strawberry EggsStrawberry Eggs The Bemused Administrators
    edited February 2014
    I really need to get around to giving the Ogre Battle games a try--I do like to micromanage, and these sound like they would be right up my alley.
    " I think this is why aging makes humans die! "
  • ghaleon80ghaleon80 Member Full Members
    edited February 2014
    Looks like I'll be snagging both of these from the Nintendo Virtual Console.
  • jcservantjcservant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
    Ah, another person brought into the Ogre Battle faith! WMahahahahahaa!

    I wish I didn't hate the VC purchasing process as much as I do. I loathe putting my credit card info in EVERY TIME by pointing at the screen and 'pressing' virtual keys. Le sigh. SOOOO much easier on PSN.
  • SeraphimKittenSeraphimKitten President of Soft Paws Full Members
    edited February 2014
    So, now that Ogre Battle is out of the way, when's the new Tactics Ogre backtrack?
  • PawsPaws BEARSONA RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
    jcservant said:
    I wish I didn't hate the VC purchasing process as much as I do. I loathe putting my credit card info in EVERY TIME by pointing at the screen and 'pressing' virtual keys. Le sigh. SOOOO much easier on PSN.
    Why not just buy eShop cards? They go on sale on a regular basis and only require one entry.
  • Jmustang1968Jmustang1968 RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
    SeraphimKitten said:
    So, now that Ogre Battle is out of the way, when's the new Tactics Ogre backtrack?
    I would love to do this one as well!
  • silktailsilktail mild peril Full Members
    edited February 2014
    I hear Super Mario 64 on the DS does add a lot of nice things. But I wasn't too keen on the control system when I had a quick go. (I think movement was D-pad or touch-screen with your left-hand.)
    Probably takes practice to get used to it.

    Although if you do want to play the original with analogue controls, then there is that Wii Virtual Console option again.


    Wasn't the Zelda selfies actually in the Wind Waker? Or maybe the lack of them was preventing A Link between Worlds getting a "perfect" score.
    (Although I recall me joking somewhere, that Link's merge ability making him a living selfie that you can post on Miiverse!)
  • ShayminShaymin The Gratitude Pokemon Full Members
    edited February 2014
    Paws said:
    Why not just buy eShop cards? They go on sale on a regular basis and only require one entry.
    eShop cards don't work on the Wii-mode shop and Wii cards have dropped off the face of the earth, unfortunately. Until they get the entire libraries moved to the WiiU store, which will happen in about 2019, Phil's stuck with it.
    "The flowers all over its body burst into bloom if it is lovingly hugged and senses gratitude."
    Twitter | A gaming podcast by grownups
  • PawsPaws BEARSONA RPGamer Staff
    edited February 2014
  • MathiueMathiue New Member Full Members
    edited March 2014
    Man I was listening to this at work and I just wanted to go back and play this game with a little more tact than I did....I followed all the rules like dont beat up characters with lower levels or good alignments but all that got tossed out the window by map 3-4 or so. I was just a brutish team of a few unstoppable units with a nice supporting cast overpowered and over leveled. I want the good ending this time.
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