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Active Topical Banter - Episode 3: State of the Pocket

Fowl SorcerousFowl Sorcerous Dread News EditorRPGamer Staff
edited May 2014 in Latest Updates
In this episode our intrepid crew tackles the East/West Divide, the phone/dedicated gaming device divide and the environment. Also debuting the feedback segment (with prizes).

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Talking points:
-east/west divide (japan's reliance on huge handheld market to maintain massive stable of "B" franchises vs NA's ‘baby version of existing game’/total abandonment and how that plays into...
-phone vs dedicated gaming handheld divide
-over-reliance on on ports/lack of original IP?
-are these distinctions relevant as ‘handheld’ titles are getting ported and upscaled to console (DX:the fall/AC: liberation/arkham blackgate)
-localization woes/psp op rainfall equivalent
-wither nintendo?

Comments

  • risingsunrisingsun - Fancy Title - Full Members
    edited April 2014
    It's a shame I couldn't be there for the show. I have been thinking and talking a lot about the state of mobile gaming (both phone and tablet) from the perspective of "old school" gamers recently. There is a lot to say about the current state of success and failures on the part of developers and gamers.
  • BalanceBalance Member Full Members
    edited April 2014
    I enjoyed this show and the previous. To be honest I feel somewhat conservative, being an "old-timer" and that I have entrenched views which don't really contribute to the debates.
    I remember that scholarly tracking of how many Japanese RPG's made it over to the west, what a great effort. I wish they brought more games over, but I understand their bottom line philosophy, and am somewhat grateful for what they did localize.
    My comment would be, good RPG's deserve success, Bravely Default gave fans what they wanted. Whereas games like Lightning Returns are an obvious avoid for sensible people who want to save their pennies for the good ones.
    I know that there are many levels of gaming budget and people happy to enjoy games at a more derivative and less optimal level (call me a snob), but mobiles will NEVAH! be my platform of choice, viva la handheld.
    This is a sentimental point of view, but the 3DS is like the super famicom come again for me. I don't need the flashy PC-challenging newly arrived Gen platforms, the handehlds have plenty of adequate power and functionality.
    I like new IP's and every new platform should have some memorable ones, but equally, I love all the retro style games (forever) I will faithfully buy every Dragonquest that is localized, every Fire Emblem. I want more Lufia, Wild Arms, Breath of Fire, Ogre Battle and tactics, super robot wars, suikoden. New-ish games I loved that I could actually remember -Radiant Historia.
  • smacdsmacd Full Members
    edited April 2014
    I still regret that I missed on the GBA era. Too busy with college at the time, and the DS came out while I was in grad school. I did get a few games in given the ability of the DS to play GBA games, but not many.

    The east/west divide is interesting, but I don't generally find it much of an issue. With handhelds, I know that most of what I'm getting is Japanese developed games. When I want western games, I opt for my Microsoft consoles or a PC. I suppose it would be nice if more western developers made games for the handhelds, but I actually think that is less of an issue than trying to get Japanese developers to work on PC and Microsoft consoles. I can think of a lot more western handheld games than Japanese PC games.

    I know that there is a lot of stigma about the rise of gaming on iOS and Android. However I am really pro-mobile. Its still in its infancy, but in a few years I think it will be a viable competitor to Nintendo and Sony. I do like the lower prices, and contrary to what most people claim, the games are actually pretty good that I've played. Though I generally play on a tablet. There are some good points about the monetizing of mobile games though. I have a rule to never, ever pay money in games other than for either chapter DLC or the up front cost. And all phones on my plan have this rule too. Freemium is a very dangerous thing that I think hurts the platform as a whole, while simultaneously making me want to develop one to cash in myself. However as a platform I think there is a lot of good potential. Kemco for instance is making some decent use of it, and Square is somewhat, though they've been playing both ends. I think in a few years, it will have matured as a platform to be competitive against Nintendo and Sony and they will have to compete on the price. On the other hand, things like the SP drinks you can buy for real money in Bravely Default is a negative cross-pollination on 3DS of a negative aspect learned from the mobile platform.

    Operation Rainfall is interesting in that I think they had to choose a focus, and the Wii was a good target. Had they spread themselves too thin I don't think there would have been any success at all.

    Dragon Quest is amazing. I think that should really be the next focus for Operation Rainfall or some similar movement. We have four good targets on the 3DS that really need to come here.

    I don't really know who the market is for the "tag-on" games for console franchises that have a side game on handhelds. I generally don't get them. I've tried, for instance, the Lego game demos they've put out, but they feel so inferior that I'll just get the console versions. Similarly, I have little desire to get them when they port these to consoles with some HD graphics.

    I disagree partially about Nintendo looking back as being a bad thing. There is no reason they cant court indies and bolster their eShop stuff, but if they properly managed the Wii U AND the 3DS Virtual Console, and released everything on all their past consoles possible, they would appeal to nostalgia and have new games. With the popularity of retro gaming and things like the Retron 5 hype, there is a lot of good reason for Nintendo looking back as being positive for the company. Now they just need to do it right rather than in the asinine way they've been doing it.

    And I do have to agree with Mac, I'd love to have all my console games available on handhelds. As I get older and closer to marriage, getting in console gaming time is more and more difficult. I do love remakes that add more content to the handheld, but its also more difficult for me to want to replay a game I haven't played before. Sam brought up the Atelier games, and I'm glad they are available on Vita whether they have much more content or not, since I never played the original.

    Anyways, great show guys, I love the discussion. And thank you guys for the game code, its a really cool surprise gesture!
  • silktailsilktail mild peril Full Members
    edited April 2014
    smacd wrote: »
    On the other hand, things like the SP drinks you can buy for real money in Bravely Default is a negative cross-pollination on 3DS of a negative aspect learned from the mobile platform.
    It wasn't that negative a use of a pay-to-win model though.
    The SP drinks are completely optional and mostly for people who want to spend their money (when they are stuck), rather than spend their time grinding, or waiting for them to refill naturally.

    I guess it might be starting to lead us down a dark path, but I'd say it has been a fairly tame cross-over so far.


    Was there no noticeable push for Type 0?
    Because I recall people were starting to do things for Type 0 and Versus VIII. E.g. Some people were streaming play-throughs of all the (single-player) FF games, to drum up interest.
    Maybe things just didn't take off in the same way?

    Although Operation Rainfall was trying to localise European releases. Which might have outraged more people into action (all the work is already done!).


    I don't know if exclusives are really that bad, as it should lead to games being designed for their device (instead of shoe-horned into each one).
    But yes, there's nothing wrong with games being ported to a suitable platform.


    Oh, and unfortunately the best I could come up with was "Massive Multi-slayer". (Alternative suggestions, like "Team building monkey grinder" didn't seem to flow very well.)
    Hopefully someone will come up with a better phase to describe those types of game.
  • ShayminShaymin The Gratitude Pokemon Halifax, New SealandFull Members
    edited April 2014
    I'm going to relisten so I can compose a full set of thoughts, but I'll at least let Sam know that I got $13 for Tearaway recently from EBGames. (Best Buy wouldn't take it, for some reason... not cool.)
    "The flowers all over its body burst into bloom if it is lovingly hugged and senses gratitude."
    Twitter | A gaming podcast by grownups | Nintendo World Report news editor
  • NyxNyx Staff Girly Girl RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2014
    Shaymin wrote: »
    I'm going to relisten so I can compose a full set of thoughts, but I'll at least let Sam know that I got $13 for Tearaway recently from EBGames. (Best Buy wouldn't take it, for some reason... not cool.)

    Can't beat that. ;) Also why the heck wouldn't Best Buy take it? Unless they had too many copies but that doesn't alway seem likely with the, (at least where I live).
  • ShayminShaymin The Gratitude Pokemon Halifax, New SealandFull Members
    edited April 2014
    I think the fact that I got the game while in Florida might've had something to do with it.
    "The flowers all over its body burst into bloom if it is lovingly hugged and senses gratitude."
    Twitter | A gaming podcast by grownups | Nintendo World Report news editor
  • PawsPaws Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2014
    Yeah. I ran into the same problem going the other way when we got a Canadian (duplicate) copy from EBGames.
  • rakdenrakden New Member Full Members
    edited April 2014
    After listening to this I went and pulled my GameBoy Advance SP out of storage (Spongebob). This has been in a box since I graduated college in 2006. It charged up and ran a full 8 hours. By all accounts that battery probably should have exploded sitting discharged that long, Nintendo must have used fairy dust in manufacturing.
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited April 2014
    rakden wrote: »
    After listening to this I went and pulled my GameBoy Advance SP out of storage (Spongebob). This has been in a box since I graduated college in 2006. It charged up and ran a full 8 hours. By all accounts that battery probably should have exploded sitting discharged that long, Nintendo must have used fairy dust in manufacturing.
    See? Older handhelds used to be so fantastic with battery life.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • InstaTrentInstaTrent Editor-at-Large RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2014
    Macstorm wrote: »
    See? Older handhelds used to be so fantastic with battery life.

    *cough, cough* SEGA Game Gear *cough*
    "To tell you the truth, I like drinking tea and eating fresh vegetables, but that doesn't fit with my super-cool attitude. I guess I have to accept this about myself."
  • PawsPaws Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2014
    Hey, once you installed the massive battery pack that doubled the weight, the battery life got a lot better.
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited April 2014
    InstaTrent wrote: »
    *cough, cough* SEGA Game Gear *cough*
    Sorry, I meant to say good handhelds.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • PawsPaws Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2014
    Pfft, the Game Gear was good. It wasn't better than the Gameboy, but that doesn't make it inherently bad.
  • risingsunrisingsun - Fancy Title - Full Members
    edited April 2014
    Yeah the Game Gear was fine, as long as you had box of AA batteries at the ready or bought the AC adaptor and plugged yourself in. I had a Game Gear and man, that battery life felt like i was lucky to get an hour at best out of those 6 AA batteries.
  • ShayminShaymin The Gratitude Pokemon Halifax, New SealandFull Members
    edited May 2014
    Listened again yesterday, and for some reason the GBA being on the WIiU instead of the 3DS stuck out to me.

    Remember that when Nintendo announced the 3DS Ambassador program, they indicated that those games would be exclusive to Ambassadors (source), and they had to do a really backwards hack involving the 3DS BC built into the system to get the games to run. They don't even use all of the system features like sleep mode and (for VC stuff) restore points.

    If I had to guess, I'd say Nintendo feels if it's not worth doing perfectly then it's not worth doing. I don't agree with this stance because I prefer handheld systems on 3DS and consoles on WiiU until cross-buy becomes an option, and would encourage them to just buy M2 from Sega to do the VC work.

    It's refreshing to see a company not go back on its word, but at this point we're so far removed from that promise that I'm probably the only person who remembers.
    "The flowers all over its body burst into bloom if it is lovingly hugged and senses gratitude."
    Twitter | A gaming podcast by grownups | Nintendo World Report news editor
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited May 2014
    Oh, I remember them saying they'd be exclusive, but so often I take that to mean "exclusive for now." Too many companies do 180s, so...
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • scrumly1scrumly1 New Member Full Members
    edited May 2014
    The GBA SP had fantastic battery life. The initial model ate AA's like nobodies business. I'm more of a portable gamer than a console gamer and will buy games that I can fully expect to get a portable version later. The Disgaea games either included all new extra content/characters (like the PSP versions of 1 and 2) or included all the DLC(like they did for the Vita version of 3, and hopefully do for 4). Would I would like to see is more Cross Play/Cross save games even if they aren't cross buy. Currently I'm swapping between the 2 versions of Final Fantasy HD so that I can see it on the big screen when I'm at home and I want to advance the story but can grind and play blitzball when I'm not home. I can understand having to buy both especially when you're buying a physical product but the convience of swapping between the 2 if you so choose is nice.
  • GaijinMonogatariGaijinMonogatari RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited May 2014
    Macstorm wrote: »
    See? Older handhelds used to be so fantastic with battery life.

    I firmly remember putting four batteries into my old grey GameBoy and starting up Pokemon Blue, back when it first came out. When I finally beat the Elite 4, about 60 hours of play later, I had yet to replace the batteries. Granted, I'd had to turn down the contrast regularly as the screen started to fade from low power levels, but I made it through. When I replaced the batteries, the contrast had been turned down so low that the entire screen was black when I booted it up.
  • OmbresOmbres Games horder Full Members
    edited May 2014
    Well the only term I could think of for the monster hunter, is blacksmith hunter or blacksmith grinder
    Always enjoy all the experience in life, you might gain a level or two.
    sig.gif
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