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Round 2, Match 19: Final Fantasy X (1) vs. Final Fantasy VI - Winner (3)

JuMeSynJuMeSyn Code: KirinAdministrators
edited June 2014 in Battle Royale!
Match 19: Which battle system do you prefer?
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy VI
This match begins a few minutes before midnight starts on Monday the 2nd. It will end... oh, about midnight (for easterners) on Wednesday the 4th's morning.

Trent, Johnathan, Sam, and... uh oh, I'm on this panel too. We get to inaugurate the debate as soon as we feel like it!

Conclusion time was... about midnight for easterners on Wednesday morning.
It's not what he's eating, but what's eating him that makes it ... sort of interesting.
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Comments

  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited June 2014
    Hmm, this may be a tough one for me. On one hand, you have FFX which was a glorious return to turn-based battles and a brilliant showing of how to keep it fresh (at least IMO). And on the other hand, you have FFVI, which not only had everybody customizable to an extent while keeping their individuality in terms of skills, it got very creative with how they worked and were used (Sabin's Blitz and Celes' Runic for two examples), leading to actual strategic use of several of the characters. I'm not sure which one I'm going to vote for, I'll wait for arguments.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • JuMeSynJuMeSyn Code: Kirin Administrators
    edited June 2014
    I think I know which way I'll vote, but it's not firm in my mind quite yet. FFX was a game in which I really enjoyed fighting and made sure every character did something to keep all of them useful during. That turn order visible on the screen is something more games should crib, it's incredibly helpful for outlining what to do next in my head.
    FFVI is a game in which things usually blaze right by and I can make enemies dead with great efficiency. I know there are low level methodologies - I never used them, nor will I. I often go kill dinosaurs in the forest using ye old cheap Vanish + X-zone (or whatever the new translation on those spells is, I forget what Advance called them) to get my people up in level. Everyone has unique abilities to make it not a matter of just picking whoever's got the highest level, that's for sure.
    I dunno yet. We shall see.
    It's not what he's eating, but what's eating him that makes it ... sort of interesting.
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    The glitch with zone + vanish doesn't work in the updated version or at least the times I did it, it didn't work
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  • Rya_ReisenderRya_Reisender Solipsist Snowflake Full Members
    edited June 2014
    Easy decision for me. FFVI is one of my favorite FF battle systems while FFX is my least liked of the FF battle system.
    This matchup is basically "fastest vs. slowest", so the outcome will be determined by whether staff members (and voters) like fast or slow battle systems more.

    My vote: FFVI

    Edit: The old poll is still on the main page by the way.
  • 7thCircle7thCircle Proofer of the Realm RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    In hindsight, what I liked most about FF6's combat system was its speed. After playing God knows how many similar RPGs since 1994, and disliking turn-based systems that are similar to this when they are slow, I've developed mixed feelings about turn-based JRPG combat. When it's fast, I adore it. When it's slow, it helps me fall asleep when I game in bed.

    FFX came out in my college days when my friends were all gamers and we'd sit around and talk about video games for hours. We unanimously praised FFX's combat for being more interesting and engaging than any other Final Fantasy without hitting recent Squaresoft pitfalls like, again, slowness (we were Vagrant Story haters) or needless repetition (hating on FF8's draw mechanic was another common conversation). I replayed FFX in 2005 at a time when I rarely replayed games, worried that I was recalling it through rose-colored glasses, and unexpectedly enjoyed the combat even more, even taking on most of the optional endgame content.

    I think FFX hit the nail on the head by implementing something purely turn-based and somewhat tactical while keeping the pace fast. It was the first Final Fantasy where status ailments and attack types mattered, and the first since FF4 where summons felt balanced and useable. Party members had strengths encouraging you to use everyone, and at least in my 1st playthrough the sphere grid tricked me into thinking that I had some power over customizing them. Overall, combat was fluid, fun, and interesting in a way that no other game at that time had quite managed, and it held up through two playthroughs, an extreme rarity for me in the '00s and beyond. It left me disappointed that FF12 went back to ATB and party members that could all be the same.

    I'll be voting for FFX in the poll, and you should too!
    The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions.
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    New poll is now up.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • hyperknees91hyperknees91 Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    Actually x could be faster if everyone had haste on them haha. Anyways I'm not a big fan of what vi did for the series as it essentially started the whole every character is the same by the end. I much prefer a lunar or dragon quest approach where every char is unique the entire game.

    Still I'll give it to x for being slightly more strategic and having more variety to it.
  • Rya_ReisenderRya_Reisender Solipsist Snowflake Full Members
    edited June 2014
    What makes X's combat slow is that you want to switch in every character every battle or else they won't get Exp.
  • Jmustang1968Jmustang1968 RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    I am fairly confident on which I will be picking. I will think on it a bit more today to formulate a reasoning behind it. From my previous voting on these 2, it shouldnt be hard to guess which way I am leaning.
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Either choice is a winner in my book. Two of the best battle systems the Final Fantasy series has to offer.

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  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    Until I replayed FFX HD recently, this would have been a no-brainer for me. That said, I've found that system great for a playthough or two, but harder to go back to now. FFVI isn't groundbreaking, but it really works well and is fantastic to go back to again and again.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • Zeboyd GamesZeboyd Games Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    A subtle thing that FFX battle system does well is transparency. As long as you have a character with Scan on their equipment (which is a very common equipment bonus), you automatically get to see HP, elemental weaknesses, and a line of text (which frequently tells a weakness or an attack that the enemy has). With this information, the player is encouraged to adjust their strategy on a battle per battle basis, whereas non-transparent battle systems (like FF6) encourage you to just develop one general strategy and use it on every battle (maybe changing it up for boss encounters).

    Only active characters receiving XP is annoying but as long as you make sure to use everybody in boss encounters & don't focus on any one character in random encounters, everyone should end up at about the same LVs anyway. And the time you save by not doing the swap/defend method on every battle could always be used to fight a few extra battles in the late game where you get more XP anyway.
    Check out upcoming RPG, Cosmic Star Heroine, at http://cosmicstarheroine.com/
  • PawsPaws Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    FFVI is a pretty swag evolution of the FF ATB system. FFX is essentially equally as good, though for different reasons. Tough call. I think I'd come down slightly in favour of FFVI.
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    As most of you know, I support both systems wholeheartedly. FF6 wins my vote for my favorite JRPG of all time, but that does not necessarily mean that the battle system wins that distinction from me.

    As I think about these two, I find a lot to love. It is almost a tie in my books. However, one thing sticks out for me in one of the games though I struggle as to whether it qualifies as an element of the battle system.

    I'm presuming that the statute of limitations of spoilers passed a long time ago for these games. In the final dungeon of FFVI, you have to utilize nearly all of your characters by splitting them into three parties. You can only move one atta time, but eventually, you have to utilize them all. For the final battle you start off with four, but the others in your party replace fallen victims as some kick the bucket.

    Because I knew that these battles would be tough, I had to think through my party compositions a bit. What's funny is that in most other games before this one, if you had too many people for a party, you always questioned whether or not you really needed to train everyone in your group, or just focus on the 3-5 needed for a battle party. Often enough, focusing worked just fine. But, without FAQs, it was a crap-shoot. So, I always leveled everyone equally in most of my games, including FFVI...where it finally paid off in spades! Because of this, the last dungeon and fight was especially epic and memorable.

    FFX gave us the excellent ability to swap people out on the fly. I've seen others use this fairly often. During my play through, I used that ability mostly on boss battles as necessary. I leveled everyone up nearly evenly because I don't like to use FAQs, and I worried that I might have another FFVI style dungeon at the end. I don't recall if I swapped out a lot for that final dungeon and boss fight, or if I just took my strongest characters and blasted through.

    And while I give a nod to FFX's ability to swap on the fly (and, indeed, I praise it for including this), it just isn't as memorable to me as that final dungeon or boss fight in FFVI. Having to utilize nearly every character in the dungeon, and having my 2nd string people jump in when others fell, just left an impression on me, even decades later. Of course, having a memorable ending showing what happened to each character whilest playing a wonderful mix of each of their theme songs...well, it just added frosting on the cake. That frosting has nothing to do with the battle system, except to further cement the epic-ness of that final run. It amazes me that I have stronger memories of that final dungeon and boss fight than its more modern (and awesome) counterpart.
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  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    A subtle thing that FFX battle system does well is transparency. As long as you have a character with Scan on their equipment
    That became one of the more annoying things to be this time around, probably because of having played games like Persona 3/4, but I hated constantly having to have Scan on my equipment. Or I'd have it on a couple and then I'd have swapped them out. How strange that a feature I loved the first time around (swapping characters), became one of my biggest problems when replaying it.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • Rya_ReisenderRya_Reisender Solipsist Snowflake Full Members
    edited June 2014
    Um, you guys are aware that you can also develop strategies without scan? By trying out all elements and memorizing weaknesses?
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    Yeah, and that would take even more time...
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • hyperknees91hyperknees91 Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    Quite honestly I thought that ffx's battle system was just a dumbed down and worse version of breath of fire iv. It handles swapping much better and made it less tedious while really making you feel that you were fighting with a team. Having combo attacks helped too.
  • TexsideTexside Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    This is a tough one.

    I think FFX had one of the best character building systems -- like whoa nelly, the Sphere Grid was just fun -- but FFVI had the final dungeon, as mentioned above by JCServant, where I got to use every character and that really struck with me. It's hard because of the plot, where FFVI is one of my favorites, and I worry that sways me.

    But I think I'd pick FFVI. It didn't excel at character building the way FFX did, but I think its battles were quicker, cleaner, crisper, and kept things just interesting enough. It was kinda like the porridge and the three bears: not too hot, not too cold, but just right. It didn't stand out in one particular field, but it got everything just right.
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Yeah, Tex, pacing of combat is a good point. In watching Paws do one of her 'Let's Play,' it did seem to me that the random battles were a bit slow and took a few too many turns to resolve. Hmmmm.
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  • JuMeSynJuMeSyn Code: Kirin Administrators
    edited June 2014
    Ah hell, I'll just make my choice now and have done. Elaborate justifications would be nice, but I'm tapped after doing something else. People might have noticed it, and it's prompted new recruits to the forums. Yee-haw!
    I remember having a blast making everyone do something in each fight in FFX. The turn order, the actual effectiveness of ailments and buffs, needing to pay attention most of the time since a thoughtless move would end up with me getting whomped, that was awesome. Maybe a little much if I'd been trying to dodge lightning for somebody's best weapon - but I didn't wanna do that.
    Plus FFVI has a good chance of moving ahead anyway, so I'll have more chances to talk about it later.
    It's not what he's eating, but what's eating him that makes it ... sort of interesting.
  • Jmustang1968Jmustang1968 RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    I will just mostly echo what I wrote in round 1 about these 2 games.
    I can appreciate FFX for its combat and ability to switch characters in and out. However, I didn't care much for the 'paper, rock, scissors' weakness system that went hand in hand with the character switch mechanic. I did enjoy the summon implementation, but it also seemed like the summons were killed all too easily. For every good idea, it feels as if they did something wrong in the execution that made it less appealing to me.
    FFVI combat is timeless to me. I can always go back and play it, it just stays fun. While it doesn't do anything extraordinary that sticks out, it also doesn't do anything wrong. It stays fast paced and has unique skills for each character that keeps things varied. Another big thing for me is that VI allows 4 characters in battle instead of 3 for X. I always disliked how FF games lowered the # of characters in battle in the later games.

    Vote: Final Fantasy VI
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    Like to point out FFIX had 4 characters in battle
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    28 years of gaming and still going strong
    and now a mostly annoyed Father with first son. And now a father again to a second son :D

    Winner of the 2015-2016 Fantasy gaming Pool
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    I always disliked how FF games lowered the # of characters in battle in the later games.
    I know, right? That's something else I forgot. Why DO later games insisting on less characters? XIII:LR Takes the ultimate step and reduces you to one!! HAHAHAHAH!!!!
    Vote: Final Fantasy VI
    I approve. :D
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  • Zeboyd GamesZeboyd Games Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    Disappointed but not surprised by it looking like FF6 is going to win on the strength of the game and not the battle system.
    Check out upcoming RPG, Cosmic Star Heroine, at http://cosmicstarheroine.com/
  • Rya_ReisenderRya_Reisender Solipsist Snowflake Full Members
    edited June 2014
    Disappointed but not surprised by it looking like FF6 is going to win on the strength of the game and not the battle system.
    I doubt that. According to what TG Baradigm (if I remember correctly) told me a few weeks ago, FFX is actually the most popular FF game.

    Okay, I personally don't like FFX at all, but I can 100% honestly say that I do think that FFVI has the better battle system.
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    Disappointed but not surprised by it looking like FF6 is going to win on the strength of the game and not the battle system.
    The staff votes seem slanted toward the game unfairly?
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • Jmustang1968Jmustang1968 RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Disappointed but not surprised by it looking like FF6 is going to win on the strength of the game and not the battle system.

    I am only considering the battle system here. To me FFX has good ideas but flawed implementation. I enjoy combat in VI more than X.
  • Zeboyd GamesZeboyd Games Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    My problem with FF6 even being on this list is that the battle system is almost as generic as it comes. It's barebones Dragon Quest combat except you have to wait for your turn & if you take too long in menus, the enemy gets extra turns.

    If you're taking into account secondary aspects like character/ability options (which are admittedly better than most RPGs) then you also ought to take into account that the best abilities are non-character specific (like Ultima) with the result that most everyone ends up being essentially the same character mechanically by the end of the game.

    Don't get me wrong - I consider FF6 to be one of the best RPGs of all time. However, its big strengths are its character design, music, story, and dungeon design and not so much its combat system.
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  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    Does generic equal bad?

    EDIT: Just curious. For what it's worth, FFVI was not in my top 20.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
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This discussion has been closed.