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Round 2, Match 21: Bravely Default - Winner (3) vs. Breath of Fire D Q (2)

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Comments

  • ironmageironmage chaotic neutral observer SaskatoonFull Members
    edited June 2014
    JCServant wrote: »
    I don't know guys (those of you standing on the whole "harder should *never* equal better rewards soapbox). You still haven't answered my question.
    I'm not on that soapbox, but I'll reply anyway. (I'm limiting my topic to gained EXP; my statements don't really apply to earned gold, or items.)
    The more I think about it, the more I think they should have built that in. How is having scaling rewards based on where that slider is that any different from a player going to an easier/harder area, seeking out easier/harder mobs and getting naturally smaller/larger reward?
    It's different because I can choose to seek out easier/harder mobs *or not*, if I don't want to. If I'm getting more experience from the higher difficulty level, then I'm stuck with that experience, and I am at increased risk for becoming overlevelled, which I consider something to avoid. (Of course, I'm speaking in general, since BD allows you to set earned EXP to zero).

    So what's the benefit of increased EXP? If the game is balanced properly (see: Graces-f discussion above), that increased EXP isn't going to compensate for the increase in difficulty level. I guess you might hit the level cap a little sooner, or have a temporary advantage, if you turned the difficulty down again...
    So, it seems to be a to be a punishment if there's a difficulty option with no clear benefit of any kind. Since random battles will take longer (and in BD, they will take a LOT longer since you can't spam brave and 4x attacks), I'm spending more time in them. And for what? To say I played part of the game on hard? To prepare me mentally for tough boss battles? I dunno...it's just a disconnect for me.

    Because I find that leaving the game on auto-battle, or just hitting attack repeatedly, is entirely boring. If I don't have to actively participate in the battle system, I might as well be doing something else.

    There are people out there who have played SMT: Nocturne with the "MC only/Hard" challenge. I don't think I could handle that, but I respect those who can. For some, the challenge *is* the reward.
    Only the livin' have the privilege of sayin' they'll fight ta the last breath.
    And words like conviction and resolve don't mean much to a dead man...
    --Raven (Tales of Vesperia)
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Because I find that leaving the game on auto-battle, or just hitting attack repeatedly, is entirely boring. If I don't have to actively participate in the battle system, I might as well be doing something else.

    I agree, and that's what I'm struggling with. You see, I also hate spending a lot more time in grinding battles than I have to (and I'm sure most feel the same way unless the battle system involved is the bee's knees). Yet, eventually, I do need to grind. So, if I play on harder, I end up spending a lot more time grinding, which feels like a punishment, since battles take a lot more time. Sure, on one hand, they are more engaging. However, on the other hand, I have to take a lot more hours more leveling up. I can put it on easy an 4x speed + Brave grind up, which gets me to desired levels a lot faster...but then I feel like I'm not really playing the game. And because these games are infamous for sudden difficulty spikes, especially at bosses, I'd be silly not to grind up plenty on my way from point A to point B.

    And, to clarify, I'm not taking away anything from people who just love spending dozens and dozens of hours fighting in a game. There are some for whom time is not as much of a challenge, and they enjoy the fact that a game length is padded by the above elements. Developers who design their games with needed grinding believe that this sentiment is shared by a majority of their audience, or they wouldn't include such characteristics.

    Like I said...I can't put my finger on it... but the encounter and difficulty slider is something of a disconnect for me... I feel like I'm choosing between two undesirable results... and I almost hate the fact that the choice is always there, nagging me. In FFV, where I'm sure people would want such options, I'm more at peace. The difficulty and balance is stuck... there's no choice to be made there. Sometimes I get frustrated with the encounter rate or a difficulty spike... sure. I just don't think, after playing BD, that the meta-heavy magic sliders of awesomeness are the answer to these undesirable elements that have plagued JRPGs for decades... at least, not the way they are set up in BD.

    There are people out there who have played SMT: Nocturne with the "MC only/Hard" challenge. I don't think I could handle that, but I respect those who can. For some, the challenge *is* the reward.

    Yeah...I get that. Ironically, most of those games (I think Nocturne included) lock you into a difficulty you set at the beginning of the game. So, you make that decision from the get go. If you beat it on hard, there's no doubt / question you beat it entirely on hard. In BD...there's that constant temptation to turn it down for harder battles. It's interesting. How many people turn it off just for one tough boss fight or dungeon? How tempting is that? We should do a psychology study on this one day.
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    If you want interactive battles try Project X Zone or SRWOH Saga: Endless Frontier
    sig.gif

    28 years of gaming and still going strong
    and now a mostly annoyed Father with first son. And now a father again to a second son :D

    Winner of the 2015-2016 Fantasy gaming Pool
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Those are tactical RPGs...and I do love myself some tactical RPGs. Though, I'm focusing on typical JRPGs right now. There's a sweet spot between balance, encounters, etc...if done right, the JRPG is a lot more fun to me. Too easy, and it doesn't feel interactive enough. I don't have to think through battle. I fall asleep. Too hard, and I feel like I have to grind a lot just to move forward. Encounter rate impacts as well. Too much or too little (if grinding is needed) and a game becomes too frustrating.

    Final Fantasy V, for the most part, feels good (to me) in those areas. As the game has gone on, I've had to pay more attention to random battles, and choose my actions more carefully. Yet, they don't outstay their welcome. The encounter rate is a wee high, but not so much that I'm pulling out my hair. And I've only done a bit of intentional grinding before a few big areas.

    Like Mac, I generally like the Dragon Quest line of games...despite the fact that it doesn't get more old school JPRG than DQ... because they do such a great job with balancing in those areas. I imagine its no easy thing to balance all the variable to achieve that level of balance. That's why it almost feels like BD's approach to this fairly typical JRPG problem almost feels like a cheap way out. I think I'm actually prefering something like DQ or FFV that's pretty well balanced with no sliders rather than BD with it's sliders that may be change on the fly. Again...I'm struggling to explain exactly why, as options for players is almost always a good thing (I've used that phrase myself many times).
  • Rya_ReisenderRya_Reisender Solipsist Snowflake Full Members
    edited June 2014
    @jcservant
    I won't go into detail again as I discussed this so often already, but maybe you find those two links (that include posts of me) interesting:
    http://www.visionriders.com/blog/2014/02/a-word-on-difficulty/#comments
    http://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/14978/
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    JCServant wrote: »
    Those are tactical RPGs...and I do love myself some tactical RPGs.

    Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Endless Frontier is actually a turn based RPG not a Tactical one
    sig.gif

    28 years of gaming and still going strong
    and now a mostly annoyed Father with first son. And now a father again to a second son :D

    Winner of the 2015-2016 Fantasy gaming Pool
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Then I was confusing it with another game. I think that's the one that feels more action based... it's been a while. Regardless, my points remain :) Since we're talking about BD, I'm focusing on how it addresses the age old JRPG issue of grinding, encounter rates, etc.

    Rya, those are good threads. They could inspire whole new threads on our forums there. I'm tempted to start them myself, but I'm pressed for time at the moment.
This discussion has been closed.