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Round 2, Match 24: Final Fantasy XII (2) vs Final Fantasy Tactics- Winner (3)

JuMeSynJuMeSyn Code: KirinAdministrators
edited June 2014 in Battle Royale!
Match 24: Which battle system do you prefer?
Final Fantasy XII
Final Fantasy Tactics

This one is beginning right about the stroke of midnight Friday morning, June 20th, for easterners. Though I'm glad not to be an easterner at the moment, as I don't always stay up that late. It'll end in about 72 hours actually, for Monday morning, to inaugurate the third round.

Who's arguing? Johnathan, Mac, Becky, and Phil. They've got three days to hash this one out!

I jumped the gun and ended it 12 minutes before midnight on Monday.
It's not what he's eating, but what's eating him that makes it ... sort of interesting.
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Comments

  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Whoa...I'm on this one too? I gotta read my notes more often. Ok... I have fought and defended both of these games in the past... I think. If I didn't, I should have. They're both a lot of fun, and super awesome. And, actually, its the first time in a few rounds that I find myself on the fence. I am leaning in one, particular direction, but I'm still hangin' on to that fence. Let's see if anyone can pull me off before gravity takes hold. If you saw some of my earlier votes, you know I can be swayed in such circumstances.
  • Rya_ReisenderRya_Reisender Solipsist Snowflake Full Members
    edited June 2014
    Too boring vs Too complicated

    Tough choice. I guess too boring is the lesser evil.
  • watcherwatcher Veteran RPGamer Full Members
    edited June 2014
    Seeing as I played through FFT at least a few times and FFXII only the once, it's safe to say I had more fun with FFT.
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    Proud, Unwavering Vote: Final Fantasy XII

    I don't even have to think about this one. The idea that FFT being more replayable makes it the better battle system is questionable. FFXII had pacing issues and story issues and the weird license board, but that doesn't make its battle system any less awesome. This is one of the only RPGs that I just wanted to keep fighting and fighting over and over, because the combat system itself was so fantastic. It handled all of the little micromanage-y things that you never really wanted to deal with for you, but still allowed you to have full control over your party. Having to purchase gambits is annoying, but I see that more as a game progression problem than a fault of the game's battle system.

    What really stood out to me was the fact that in FFXII, there was finally a reason to use every single skill and spell if you wanted. What other game would you actually use protect or shell in during a normal battle? Well, in FFXII it was something simple and easy to automate. The International Zodiac Job System offered jobs to set each character as to make them unique, but it was super simple to do that in the normal version. I had Penelo as a Paladin, as she wielded heavy swords, heavy armor, and used healing magic. Basch was a dark knight with quick, swift attacks and a little black magic. Balthier was a thief with the quickest attack, Fran was a black mage, Ashe was my healer, and Vaan was my red mage who rotted on the sidelines.

    Yes, FFXII as a whole has its flaws for sure, but the battle system is no less awesome just because Vaan sucks or the story was poorly paced. What other game puts awesome Esper battles in that are fun and edge of your teeth tough? Remember the two Gilgamesh battles? Those are two of the most memorable fights around. FFXII's greatest shame is that Square Enix never used this battle system again. Bring it back while greatly improving everything that surrounded it would have been outstanding. Xenoblade is a close relative of this game's battle system, but it's not quite the same. Here you get full control of your party at any time, you can pause or keep things active, and every skill and spell can matter. It's just so fantastic. I cannot say enough good stuff about this game's battle system.

    I'm not going to trash FFT, but I will say that don't even consider it one of the best TRPG battle systems around. Anyone remember the cheap Wiegraf fight or the stupid assassin's on the roof top? Sure the game itself was great, but was this really the best example of a TRPG battle system?
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • KeldarusKeldarus RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Though I don't get a vote, I'll agree with Mac and say FF XII. Granted gambits made the game mostly automatic, they still required strategy to set-up and sometimes the occasional player intervention was required. Building characters with the license board was strange, but not the worst thing ever. Early on the game requires a ton of player interaction in combat because the gambits are still largely locked away.

    Tactics while a great game is cheap and unbalanced, from Wiegraf and assassin's to random chocobo fights where they would just rain meteors on your head aren't exactly stellar moment of why this is a stellar TRPG. Plus battles drag on and on in Tactics. Sometimes an epic 45 minute fight is great, but not on random battles. There's no need for it.

    I have a theme with my battle systems. I like them to be fast and efficient. Animations should be fast. Combat can last a while, but it can't be every fight, make those fights special. Could we have an epic 3 hour fight in a game? Sure bring it on, but make sure I can save mid-fight and it better be special and not some random fight that has no rewards.

    -Kel
  • PawsPaws Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Oh man...I'm glad I don't officially vote in these. I wouldn't be able to choose. I think I'd side slightly with FFT.
  • Zeboyd GamesZeboyd Games Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    I think Macstorm voting for FF12 was the least surprising outcome in this entire battle royale.
    Check out upcoming RPG, Cosmic Star Heroine, at http://cosmicstarheroine.com/
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    I think Macstorm voting for FF12 was the least surprising outcome in this entire battle royale.

    This is true!

    He's totally wrong though *flashes FF Tactics gang signs*

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    Ask Wheels- This Week's Episode
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  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    I think Macstorm voting for FF12 was the least surprising outcome in this entire battle royale.
    Yup. Thankfully, I've been able to stay on the sidelines for FFXII until now for the sake of fairness. (PS: I'm not picking the match assignments on my own) This one fell my way, so I'm placing that vote proudly. :)
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • Jmustang1968Jmustang1968 RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Sorry Mac, will be cancelling out your vote on this one. Reasoning to come later this evening
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    Noooooooo! Don't give into the popularity. Search your heart, you will find that FFXII is the better of the two battle systems!
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • OcelotOcelot is not declawed RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    I love Final Fantasy XII, I really do, but I wasn't quite as enamored with the battle system as Mac. The gambit system is groovy and the challenging fights were pretty cool, but I was endlessly annoyed by the parts of the system (notably summons and overdrive mode) that were poorly made or just plain didn't work as they should. I really wish we could have gotten a second game based on that system that cleaned up some of the issues.

    Final Fantasy Tactics is challenging to be sure, and some of the battle setups are downright unfair at first. However, the job system gives you the tools you need to deal with the challenges presented. It's a matter of taking your time, planning things carefully, and learning the system inside and out. I love the role that altitude plays in the system, something not all TRPGs do well. While there are certainly downsides, like a bit too much grinding required to experiment with different jobs, it's a great system that I remember with fondness.

    I love both systems, but FFT gets the edge here for having fewer broken bits.

    Vote: Final Fantasy Tactics (Sorry, Balthier!)
    Becky Cunningham, Staff-at-Large
    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    My gambit-filled heart is breaking into pieces. Et tu, fake wife?
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Macstorm wrote: »
    My gambit-filled heart is breaking into pieces. Et tu, fake wife?

    Seems appropriate :)
    Ask Wheels- This Week's Episode
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  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    I'm going to have to find a way to fix this match. And by fix, I totally mean repair, not "fix" fix. Yeah...

    3634%20-%20laughing%20vince_mcmahon%20wwe.png
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • Jmustang1968Jmustang1968 RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Macstorm wrote: »
    Noooooooo! Don't give into the popularity. Search your heart, you will find that FFXII is the better of the two battle systems!

    While there are some other tactical RPGs I would pick over FFT, it is the last of them in this contest. And as I have said a few times before, I don't think most other RPG combat systems can stack up to a good tactical RPG.
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    Except FFXII! FFXII stands up to all...
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Och..I may not need to vote at all...if there's two staff votes for FFT, and the reader poll is leading that way...

    But Mac has got me thinking...is FFT really the best tactical RPG out there? Really? Granted, it doesn't have to be the best in that category to beat FF12. If you like one battle system more than the other, that's how you vote. But, it is an interesting point to discuss.
  • Jmustang1968Jmustang1968 RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    JCServant wrote: »
    Och..I may not need to vote at all...if there's two staff votes for FFT, and the reader poll is leading that way...

    But Mac has got me thinking...is FFT really the best tactical RPG out there? Really? Granted, it doesn't have to be the best in that category to beat FF12. If you like one battle system more than the other, that's how you vote. But, it is an interesting point to discuss.

    I dont think it is, but thats not the matchup. Rght now it is just FFXII vs FFT. Seeding and style preferences and such has led to FFT being the last one standing. I think there is a good % who feel most tactical combat is slow and boring, and prefer a faster paced action combat. I definitely get that, so I have to champion my beloved tactical combat!
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    I'm on board with that sentiment, JM. I *DO* love myself some good tactical RPG combat. Heck, I was playing tactical RPGs long before most people via the D&D Gold Box games (which I still feel that despite their limitation and archaic D&D system, were well ahead of their time). With that being said, FF12 does a lot of things right in the combat department as well, using party strategy and tactics a different way via gambits. While I've forgotten most things about that game, the combat system was original and fun enough to stick out clearly in my memory a generation later.

    I think my problem is that as much as I love tactical RPGs, and while I did enjoy FFT, the combat itself felt a bit vanilla to me. Granted, mixing up the job classes was super fun. But the combat itself? I can't say I remember doing a lot of thinking or anything along those lines. It was good... but I'm not sure it was great.

    And, if I'm stuck on an island forced to play battle after battle in FFT and FF12...well, let's just say its a pretty close decision for me. I'm going to try to keep the meta out of this, myself. Yeah, I root for SRPGs all of the time, and love them to death...but I'm going to focus on these two, and which battle system, in my mind's eye, would be more fun in the long run. Unless, of course, it's a moot point because the votes are already locked in for FFT.
  • knownameknowname KnowJob, KnowClue Full Members
    edited June 2014
    it's kinda unfair to judge a regular jrpg to a strategy rpg c'mon now one is like hexagonal based while the other isn't. Anyway. Only complaint I had with FF12's battle system was stupid bigass enemys and birds! you couldn't even SEE the birds and big ole trolls all you could generally see were their feet :/.
  • BalanceBalance Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    I'm abstaining from the whole thing because I can't trust myself not to take the simplistic route and say I like htis game more, rather than evaluate te mechanics of the battlesystem fairly. I like final Fantasy tactics which I at least finished but not casting my vote.
  • KeldarusKeldarus RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    JCServant wrote: »
    I'm on board with that sentiment, JM. I *DO* love myself some good tactical RPG combat. Heck, I was playing tactical RPGs long before most people via the D&D Gold Box games (which I still feel that despite their limitation and archaic D&D system, were well ahead of their time). With that being said, FF12 does a lot of things right in the combat department as well, using party strategy and tactics a different way via gambits. While I've forgotten most things about that game, the combat system was original and fun enough to stick out clearly in my memory a generation later.

    I think my problem is that as much as I love tactical RPGs, and while I did enjoy FFT, the combat itself felt a bit vanilla to me. Granted, mixing up the job classes was super fun. But the combat itself? I can't say I remember doing a lot of thinking or anything along those lines. It was good... but I'm not sure it was great.

    And, if I'm stuck on an island forced to play battle after battle in FFT and FF12...well, let's just say its a pretty close decision for me. I'm going to try to keep the meta out of this, myself. Yeah, I root for SRPGs all of the time, and love them to death...but I'm going to focus on these two, and which battle system, in my mind's eye, would be more fun in the long run. Unless, of course, it's a moot point because the votes are already locked in for FFT.

    The more this goes on, the more I'm convinced we should have petitioned for Gold Box games to make the list. I think that a lot of our audience was probably still to young to read when they were popular, but still, they were great tactical combat.

    -Kel
  • AncientRuneAncientRune Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    knowname wrote: »
    it's kinda unfair to judge a regular jrpg to a strategy rpg c'mon now one is like hexagonal based while the other isn't. Anyway. Only complaint I had with FF12's battle system was stupid bigass enemys and birds! you couldn't even SEE the birds and big ole trolls all you could generally see were their feet :/.

    oh well your gonna hate Xenoblade X if you thought FFXII monsters were too big

    xcx03_by_onilink888-d7lx74g.gif

    as for being on topic this is actually a good battle because both systems are extremely customizable, But id have to go with FFT because you have to have more input with your commands where in 12 you set it and the game basically plays itself.
  • AngelonightAngelonight Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    Not to start a flame war, because I'm really not interested. But.
    Played both games.
    Hated both Games.
    Rage quit both games.
    Will never play either game again.
    I could go on, but that involve a lot of swearing and hated full words. I bow out this round.
    Kain: "Conscience...? You dare speak to me of conscience? Only when you have felt the full gravity of choice should you dare to question my judgment!"
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited June 2014
    I'll give it to Tactics hands down. I go back to Tactics time and time again and have cleared it at least 20 times. FFXII however, I have only been able to clear twice. Both are heavily focused on combat, but only in FFT do I have so much fun that I'll keep coming back to it, while in FFXII I feel nothing but frustration and an eternal state of MEH (story carried me through that game, it was the only reason why I kept going).
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • 7thCircle7thCircle Proofer of the Realm RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    I wasn't going to beat a dead horse, but while discussing the Royale with Mac today he asked me to paste my blunt assessment of FF12 here:

    It's just ATB with a shiny coat of paint and a ****ty AI you can write to do a ****ty job of fighting for you, which they needed because the battle system is too damn boring.

    I think I already said that in other threads, more or less. Maybe he just wants me to be mean in the forum like I am in private.
    The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions.
  • OcelotOcelot is not declawed RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Keldarus wrote: »
    The more this goes on, the more I'm convinced we should have petitioned for Gold Box games to make the list. I think that a lot of our audience was probably still to young to read when they were popular, but still, they were great tactical combat.

    -Kel

    I nominated a few old PC RPGs (not Gold Box, though, those weren't my favourite combat-wise), but none of them made the cut. The curse of being ancient!
    Becky Cunningham, Staff-at-Large
    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    7thCircle wrote: »
    Maybe he just wants me to be mean in the forum like I am in private.
    It is one of your more endearing qualities...er quality.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • TexsideTexside Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    I'd vote FFT, but it's with bias. I never played a ton of FFXII -- the way it worked out, I never had time to get into it and the early going was boring for me (but I gather the later systems make it more fun) -- whereas FFT has had the fortune of being a game I've played through multiple times, at good points in my life to finish those runthroughs.

    Now, I'm not sure it's the best tactical RPG out there (and that's a tough one that I'd need to think on more), but it grabbed me more and kept me playing longer than FFXII.
This discussion has been closed.