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Round 2, Match 24: Final Fantasy XII (2) vs Final Fantasy Tactics- Winner (3)

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Comments

  • omegabyteomegabyte He's just this guy, you know? RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    knowname wrote: »
    it's kinda unfair to judge a regular jrpg to a strategy rpg c'mon now one is like hexagonal based while the other isn't. Anyway. Only complaint I had with FF12's battle system was stupid bigass enemys and birds! you couldn't even SEE the birds and big ole trolls all you could generally see were their feet :/.

    FFT uses a standard square grid, not a hexagonal one. There are only a handful of tactical RPGs out there that actually use a hex grid.

    Aaaaaanyway, my vote went to FF12. FF12 is my second favorite Final Fantasy game after 9, and like Mac I loved the combat system. I especially loved creating gambits for my characters. I even went so far as to create gambit combos between characters to achieve certain effects - my Steal gambit worked that way. Lead character had Enemy HP = 100% -> Steal, while another character had Enemy HP = 100% -> Attack. Made my lead character cycle through the entire enemy party one at a time and try to steal, since my second character would take a quick potshot and drop their HP below 100% immediately afterwards. Worked surprisingly well.
    God's Final Message to His creation, written in thirty-foot high letters of fire on the side of the Quentulus Quazgar Mountains:
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  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    If only we could have joined forces on this one against the others...we would have still been outnumbered. :(
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • SeraphimKittenSeraphimKitten President of Soft Paws Full Members
    edited June 2014
    Oh, hey! With a lot of these I've been afraid to vote since I haven't played one of the games, but suddenly I find a vote with my two favourite Final Fantasy games. It's hard to divorce Tactics from its class system, but the more I thought about things, the more I thought 12 was an interesting battle system but Tactics was the system I really enjoyed playing. I didn't take how fun it is to play the combat in multiplayer, or hitting people with Math combat (I never thought that'd be a plus in anything), or the class system for Tactics.

    Almost the opposite of what someone said earlier, but: the best Final Fantasy has to offer (to me), both great games, but I vote Tactics.
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    omegabyte wrote: »
    FFT uses a standard square grid, not a hexagonal one. There are only a handful of tactical RPGs out there that actually use a hex grid.

    Aaaaaanyway, my vote went to FF12. FF12 is my second favorite Final Fantasy game after 9, and like Mac I loved the combat system. I especially loved creating gambits for my characters. I even went so far as to create gambit combos between characters to achieve certain effects - my Steal gambit worked that way. Lead character had Enemy HP = 100% -> Steal, while another character had Enemy HP = 100% -> Attack. Made my lead character cycle through the entire enemy party one at a time and try to steal, since my second character would take a quick potshot and drop their HP below 100% immediately afterwards. Worked surprisingly well.

    Wow!!!! Great minds think alike!! I did this EXACT same strategy!! And great minds HAVE to hang together! So, in a totally supliferous move (given the reader vote insures that FFT wins this), I'm sticking with my great thinkin' bud Adrian and tossing my ballot now!

    Vote: Final Fantasy XII

    In all seriousness, I love both game systems for a variety of reasons and this one is nearly a toss up for me. I could go on an abandoned island with either one and be happy for a very long time. The gambits were a lot more fun for me than most, given some of the comments I've seen here. And, while I could probably come up with one set that lets my characters grind without my supervision, I really enjoyed watching my party work. They took out a lot of the micromanagement in JRPGs without taking away my ability to make individual decisions. Later, FF13 felt like a tiny step back to me because I didn't have that level of macro-management (ala the gambits) or micromanagement (because battle was just too fast to do individual decisions most of the time). I still enjoyed it, but I felt that FF12, for me, was a more perfect balance of Macro/Micro management that I like in a JRPG. It's a shame that they didn't make a XII-2 that further refined the gambits and license board.

    I love FFT, as well. It's a bit too deliberately paced for my tastes...I wished it moved just a tad faster in how combat animations played out and flowed. Outside of that, its just pure Tactical RPG goodness that I adore. I only wished that it encouraged more people to try other, excellent strategy RPGs such as Front Mission 3. I have too many friends who played and enjoyed FFT, but have not really jumped into other SRPGs... as if they believe FFT is the end all/be all of TRPGs (so why bother playing the rest?). Tis a pity! The only thing more tragic than that, in my mind, is a lack of a proper sequel. Granted, we have A1/A2, but they just don't walk in the same shoes, really, as they lack the depth and scope found in the original. But, I digress. With so many ways to play it nowadays, if you haven't tried FFT, and you consider yourself an RPGamer, you really owe it to yourself to make this game a priority in your backlog. You'll be glad you did.
    Co-Host on RPGBacktrack. Follow me on Twitter and sub to my blog if you would like!
  • AncientRuneAncientRune Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    omegabyte wrote: »
    FFT uses a standard square grid, not a hexagonal one. There are only a handful of tactical RPGs out there that actually use a hex grid.

    Aaaaaanyway, my vote went to FF12. FF12 is my second favorite Final Fantasy game after 9, and like Mac I loved the combat system. I especially loved creating gambits for my characters. I even went so far as to create gambit combos between characters to achieve certain effects - my Steal gambit worked that way. Lead character had Enemy HP = 100% -> Steal, while another character had Enemy HP = 100% -> Attack. Made my lead character cycle through the entire enemy party one at a time and try to steal, since my second character would take a quick potshot and drop their HP below 100% immediately afterwards. Worked surprisingly well.

    I thought everyone did that
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    I thought everyone did that

    I doubt EVERYONE did that, lol. I don't know about others, but I did not reference FAQs or community forums for gambit set ups. I enjoyed coming up with combos that worked well for me, like basically having perma shell and the above steal example. So, even if a majority of people were doing the stealing thing, I still have the satisfaction of knowing that I came up with it on my own. I love it!!

    By contrast, For FFT...I did feel that I had to access FAQs to get some of the more basic things out of it... but that's more class system stuff than battle system. It made me a little cranky that I either had to grind up nearly every class on a character or read a FAQ, to access some of the advanced classes. Locking them behind huge requirements was a bit silly IMHO.
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  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    Another FFXII vote? Now I need to find a way to rig the poll!
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • TwinBahamutTwinBahamut Staff Healer RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    I thought everyone did that
    I didn't. :P

    Instead, I assigned everyone Enemy HP = 100% -> Steal, with Enemy HP = 80% Attack at a higher priority, and had the main character attack manually. That way I could have everyone keep stealing until I got an item, then deal damage to trigger everyone focusing their attacks to defeat the weakened foe. Slower at dealing damage, but quite effective at stealing items from every single foe (which was badly needed since I was trying to keep a whole party of six geared up).

    Stuff like that is part of why I actually liked the gambit system. The FF series really needed (needs?) to take a second attempt at that kind of system and fix its flaws, since it had the potential to inherit the strengths of the ATB system and carry them forward into a new vision for the series. That said... I don't think FF12 really realized that potential. Tactics has my support this time around. :)

    FFT has a somewhat antiquated UI, but it was great for providing information to the player and enabling all kinds of fun strategies. It has some annoying issues (White Mages being able to miss with Raise is beyond aggravating), but overall is very solid and enjoyable. I think it's a little weird that we can all say there is another tactical RPG we'd prefer over it, but at the same time I'd bet that those are all different tactical RPGs, so perhaps there is a strength in being everyone's second-most favorite tactical RPG.
  • RewindRewind Member Full Members
    edited June 2014
    7thCircle wrote: »
    I wasn't going to beat a dead horse, but while discussing the Royale with Mac today he asked me to paste my blunt assessment of FF12 here:

    It's just ATB with a shiny coat of paint and a ****ty AI you can write to do a ****ty job of fighting for you, which they needed because the battle system is too damn boring.

    I think I already said that in other threads, more or less. Maybe he just wants me to be mean in the forum like I am in private.

    damn-friday-o.gif

    But I have have to agree 100%. I've never completed XII, and it's almost completely due to the combat. It may seem like a small issue to most, but I find it incredibly annoying having to stop and open menus in combat to manually control characters and micromanaging AI isn't an adequate solution. If they would have included some prearranged gambit setups, I wouldn't have had such a problem with the AI system; however, all that is doing is saving me from having to interact with boring combat just to enjoy the other aspects of the game.
    PSN: TLDragoon
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    See...to me, Bravely defaults sliders and auto combat felt more like lazy ways to bypass the fundamental issues of JRPG's (i.e. grindy, slow, boring). Compared to FFXII, those mechanics feel like mere band aids.

    FFXII's gambit system provides so many options (gambit combos), however. Do I go for a more offensive set up that casts spells and stops mobs in their tracks, go more defensive by maintaining near perma buffs and taking out the weakest guy in their group... or try to steal everything they have before I take them down? By thinking through what gambits could get me the best results, and then seeing them in action (with the ability to jump in and control individual characters if things go astray), I felt like I was macro-managing my way to success. I never felt like it was a meta mechanic implemented to reduce the tedium of JRPG combat, but rather tools to give me a different perspective and method of leading my team into fights.
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  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited June 2014
    I couldn't have said it better myself. That's the part I loved about it the most. Anyone who was bored by FFXII's battle system (yes, you 7th) must have been doing nothing but moving from one area to another without ever challenging themselves.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • ghaleon80ghaleon80 Pass Christian, Mississippi Full Members
    edited June 2014
    When XII 1st came out I hated almost everything about it, most of all the battle system but after giving it another go I had a good time with it and actually played through the whole game knocking out the one non online Final Fantasy I hadn't beat at the time.

    With that being said my vote still goes for Final Fantasy Tactics. With Tactics I felt like I had more control of what was going on in battle and made adjustments accordingly, where in XII once I got my gambits set up the combat basically played for me and required little control after. I rarely had to change them unless it was some crazy boss on a Monster Hunt.
  • JuMeSynJuMeSyn Code: Kirin Administrators
    edited June 2014
    More votes, but the direction of the reader poll hasn't changed. It's clinched a certain winner.
    Final Fantasy Tactics 297 66.44%
    Final Fantasy XII 150 33.56%
    Total Votes 447
    It's not what he's eating, but what's eating him that makes it ... sort of interesting.
  • 7thCircle7thCircle Proofer of the Realm RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Macstorm wrote: »
    I couldn't have said it better myself. That's the part I loved about it the most. Anyone who was bored by FFXII's battle system (yes, you 7th) must have been doing nothing but moving from one area to another without ever challenging themselves.

    I wouldn't say I was bored by the battle system. I said gambits were needed because the game would have been too boring without them. A problem with gambits was that they didn't need to be complicated to be successful against everything but hunts and bosses, and against hunts and bosses I ended up controlling people manually anyway.

    The world was needlessly large. That led more to my mediocre overall impression of the game than the battle system, which was fine. Like I mentioned in Persona 4 v Reckoning, it's important to me that overly long RPGs have some type of progression or gameplay hook in the mid to endgame, and FF12, like Reckoning, didn't.
    The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions.
  • PawsPaws Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Having played FF12 for the first time this year, kind of agree with 7th on the needlessly large (and crystal teleporting only highlighted the problem instead of eliminating it, sadly).

    Couple days to wrap up thoughts!
  • PawsPaws Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2014
    Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? All righty then.
This discussion has been closed.