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Final Round, Match 31: Xenoblade Chronicles (2) vs. Grandia II - WINNER (3)

JuMeSynJuMeSyn Code: KirinAdministrators
edited July 2014 in Battle Royale!
Final Match: Which battle system do you prefer?
Xenoblade Chronicles
Grandia II

Yes, this is the final round. It's beginning at 11:30 AM Eastern time on Monday the 14th, ending in roughly 72 hours.
Mac (Macstorm), Becky (Ocelot), Trent (InstaTrent), and Nathan (TwinBahamut) are the debaters. Here we go, the final match!

At a little after noon for easterners this round was finished, and with it the entire Battle Royale.
It's not what he's eating, but what's eating him that makes it ... sort of interesting.
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Comments

  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited July 2014
    And so it begins. The end, that is.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited July 2014
    Should you vote for Grandia II?

    3571620-daniel_bryan_yes.gif
    Ask Wheels- This Week's Episode
    sig.gif
  • Zeboyd GamesZeboyd Games Member Full Members
    edited July 2014
    On one hand, you have the Grandia series which is frequently brought up as an example of the best RPG battle system of all time. On the other hand, you have Xenoblade which is one of the most popular recent RPGs but has a battle system that is very divisive.

    I expect this to be a bloodbath in favour of Grandia 2.
    Check out upcoming RPG, Cosmic Star Heroine, at http://cosmicstarheroine.com/
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited July 2014
    As a voter in this round, I'm definitely leaning one direction already. Still plenty of time to debate unless the reader vote starts going one direction really heavily.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited July 2014
    I can see only one victor here, and that is Grandia 2, who gets my vote. No matter how this ends...
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • FaustekFaustek New Member Full Members
    edited July 2014
    This was an easy one.
    Grandia II.
  • JormungandJormungand Member Full Members
    edited July 2014
    Having not played Grandia II yet, I'm refraining from voting. I think it's interesting to note that the two top contenders have essentially turn-based combat with real-time elements.
  • Zeboyd GamesZeboyd Games Member Full Members
    edited July 2014
    Jormungand wrote: »
    Having not played Grandia II yet, I'm refraining from voting. I think it's interesting to note that the two top contenders have essentially turn-based combat with real-time elements.

    Sort of.

    Grandia 2 = Turn-based combat with real-time results.
    Xenoblade = Menu-based combat in real-time.
    Check out upcoming RPG, Cosmic Star Heroine, at http://cosmicstarheroine.com/
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited July 2014
    Real-time combat is great when it's not direct-attacks-mapped-to-face-buttons combat.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • Strawberry EggsStrawberry Eggs Wannabe Mistborn Lucario Administrators
    edited July 2014
    I'll abstaine again, again having only played one. As much as I like Xenoblade, and am glad that the game made it to the finals, it's not one of my absolute most favorite battle systems ever. Most of those either didn't get in, or were voted out in the first round. :P
    Bravely second...
    The courage to try again...

    Twitter: BerryEggs

  • InstaTrentInstaTrent Opinion Guy RPGamer Staff
    edited July 2014
    Balls. Tough match-up for sure.
    "To tell you the truth, I like drinking tea and eating fresh vegetables, but that doesn't fit with my super-cool attitude. I guess I have to accept this about myself."
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited July 2014
    InstaTrent wrote: »
    Balls. Tough match-up for sure.

    If I may INTERRUPT you

    601253-art_ryudo01.jpg

    Is it? Is it?
    Ask Wheels- This Week's Episode
    sig.gif
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited July 2014
    I know there's still plenty of time left, but I'm tempted to cast my vote now just to get something out there.

    Thoughts?
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • OcelotOcelot is not declawed RPGamer Staff
    edited July 2014
    Just do it. ::swoosh::
    Becky Cunningham, Staff-at-Large
    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance
  • Zeboyd GamesZeboyd Games Member Full Members
    edited July 2014
    Macstorm wrote: »
    I know there's still plenty of time left, but I'm tempted to cast my vote now just to get something out there.

    Thoughts?

    Might as well. We all know you're going to vote for Xenoblade as a surrogate for FF12. ;)
    Check out upcoming RPG, Cosmic Star Heroine, at http://cosmicstarheroine.com/
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited July 2014
    While I'm not encouraging other staff to rush to judgment, I'm going to put my vote out there. Grandia II is a pretty fun, solid game. The battle system is fun, but it's just not my favorite out there.

    Those who know me should not be surprised that my favorite battle system, and the one I'd have supported unquestioningly through this Royale, is Final Fantasy XII. The reason for this is two fold. First, FFXII had gambits wish made menial tasks automatic and added a great deal of depth to combat. Second, it was a real-time system that didn't require direct button presses for action combat (a la Kingdom Hearts, Secret of Mana).

    Xenoblade doesn't offer the first (sadly), but it does offer the second. When I look at the real-time aspects of these systems, Xenoblade's system offers what I want more of. I want a real-time system with no separate battle screen. Sure, Xenoblade needs better AI control and the ability to swap characters mid-battle, but no one's perfect (FFXII almost is). So in a way this is a spiritual vote for FFXII, but I want to make it clear that Xenoblade stands solidly on its own. The game held up for nearly 80 hours of combat for me. I wanted more and didn't want it to end, but it did and now I'm ready to play even more Xenoblade X.

    Vote:
    Final Fantasy XII...er
    Xenoblade

    PS: Grandia II is still fun and this is not just a vote against Wheels.
    Might as well. We all know you're going to vote for Xenoblade as a surrogate for FF12. ;)
    Quite, you! Err...OK.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited July 2014
    Macstorm wrote: »
    I know there's still plenty of time left, but I'm tempted to cast my vote now just to get something out there.

    Thoughts?

    I don't have anything against Xenoblade, but does it do for real time combat what Grandia II does for turn based combat? Has it had the same influence? Grandia II deserves to win. Search your feelings, you know it to be true!
    Ask Wheels- This Week's Episode
    sig.gif
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited July 2014
    Wheels wrote: »
    I don't have anything against Xenoblade, but does it do for real time combat what Grandia II does for turn based combat? Has it had the same influence? Grandia II deserves to win. Search your feelings, you know it to be true!
    Yes, it makes for a fun battle system in a fun game just like Grandia II did. And Grandia III did it better.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited July 2014
    Yet it still somehow beat Person 4 Golden, which did Persona 3 better, which did most turn based JRPGs (and previous SMT games) better. Grandia II is just THAT good.
    Co-Host on RPGBacktrack. Follow me on Twitter and sub to my blog if you would like!
  • RealityCheckedRealityChecked Member Full Members
    edited July 2014
    I don't always play games for their battle systems. But when I do, I play Grandia.

    Admittedly I haven't voted on any of these (until now), but if someone had asked me for my favorite battle system, I would have said Grandia (either II or III). If someone had asked me what I liked least about Xenoblade, the battle system would have been close to the top (that and those poor characters' faces).

    Xenoblade was kinda like FFXII (not a fan), except even more disjointed and hard to follow (and without the gambit system which I guess helped). You walk up to an enemy and suddenly you're going at it without a command. I found myself watching more than participating, or surfing through useless options while the characters hacked away. I'm sure there is something to be said for 'real-time' and seamless battle transitions, and I'm sure there were nuances that I didn't capture. It just seemed to have too many moving parts that really didn't amount to anything other than confusion. Relying on AI (for any game) is always a bit of a downer for me, and configuring equipment was tedious and not rewarding enough.

    Grandia II on the other hand is the prefect mix of strategy without over-complexity...customization but within a framework. Battles are not too short or long. You get all the characters running around the battle in 'real-time' while still controlling each move turn-based style. Timing and position are important. The ring-menu is silky smooth. The mana egg growth system works well. Special attacks are there in all their glory. It's battle system Nirvana!

    Matchup...cancelled.
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited July 2014
    I really need to play Xenoblade.

    So, not that I haven't been paying attention or anything...but in XC, the AI controls the characters completely? You have no say? No strategems ala FF13, no gambits ala 12...and no ability to give them individual commands to override their AI in times of need? (I'm thinking Star OCean and FF12 allows that)? Really?
    Co-Host on RPGBacktrack. Follow me on Twitter and sub to my blog if you would like!
  • AncientRuneAncientRune Member Full Members
    edited July 2014
    As xenoblade biggest supporter you will be surprised to lean that my vote goes to Grandia 2. i got halfway through the BR without knowing it was there when i saw it my reaction was Oh !@#$ followed by HOW THE !@#$ IS THIS THE 26tH SEED. I love Xenoblade and it customization but Grandia 2 is something that was new and fresh and had little learning curve and just works perfectly while blade has a steep learning curve and borrowed elements from existing games mainly mmos.
  • Zeboyd GamesZeboyd Games Member Full Members
    edited July 2014
    JCServant wrote: »
    I really need to play Xenoblade.

    So, not that I haven't been paying attention or anything...but in XC, the AI controls the characters completely? You have no say? No strategems ala FF13, no gambits ala 12...and no ability to give them individual commands to override their AI in times of need? (I'm thinking Star OCean and FF12 allows that)? Really?

    You control one character primarily (who you choose before combat begins), however you have a meter that fills up at a decent rate. When it's full, you can initiate a party attack that lets you instantly do at least one move of your choice with each party member (and ignores cooldowns). Also, sometimes you'll see a vision of a future enemy attack and after that happens you can run over and warn a companion at which point, you can tell them to do a move of your choice, thus changing the future.

    Oh and also, there are a couple basic tactics you can set at any time like "Attack who I attack" or "Attack somebody else."
    Check out upcoming RPG, Cosmic Star Heroine, at http://cosmicstarheroine.com/
  • watcherwatcher Veteran RPGamer Full Members
    edited July 2014
    As xenoblade biggest supporter you will be surprised to lean that my vote goes to Grandia 2. i got halfway through the BR without knowing it was there when i saw it my reaction was Oh !@#$ followed by HOW THE !@#$ IS THIS THE 26tH SEED. I love Xenoblade and it customization but Grandia 2 is something that was new and fresh and had little learning curve and just works perfectly while blade has a steep learning curve and borrowed elements from existing games mainly mmos.

    Well it ended up at a weird seed because the biggest flaw of the BR, IMO, was the nominations. Few readers participated in the nominations. I never saw it on the main page, so I assume it didn't make it there, otherwise I would have. Plus allowing people a list of up to 20 without ranking them always favors more popular selections, regardless of merit. It's why many older games in several series, whose battle systems we almost all agree are inferior to the later games, made the list. Grandia 2 being one of them. If they ever do this again, I hope they advertise the nominations better and make people be more selective. Maybe restrict people to their top 3 or ranked top 5. Also, it'd be nice if they didn't hide the staff nomination thread/process, even if they lock non-staff from posting in it.
  • TwinBahamutTwinBahamut Staff Healer RPGamer Staff
    edited July 2014
    You know... I think I remember more details from Grandia 1's battle system than Grandia 2's, which makes sense given that I played the original more recently...

    I'll really need to pull out my copy and play it for a while to see all of its details.
  • ClephasClephas Member Full Members
    edited July 2014
    tbh... FFXII was my most-hated FF game, prior to FFXIII's release. The main reason I hated it (besides being something of a disgrace, in terms of plot) was the battle system, which reminded me too much of FFXI's MMO battle system visually (which I despised on so many levels...). So, of course it is no contest with me if XC resembles it at all.

    On the other hand, since I haven't played XC (I refuse to play any game that requires motion controls, because it is active discrimination against people with arthritis in their fingers), I can't be a judge of that game on an individual basis. I voted Grandia II, of course... but then, did anyone who saw my posts in the last few BR threads think it could be otherwise? lol
  • OcelotOcelot is not declawed RPGamer Staff
    edited July 2014
    Xenoblade Chronicles does not require or even utilize motion controls in any way. You can play it entirely with the classic controller if you want, and many people think it plays better that way. I've played a lot of action RPGs that are a lot less comfortable on the fingers than XC.
    Becky Cunningham, Staff-at-Large
    Twitter: BeckyCFreelance
  • InstaTrentInstaTrent Opinion Guy RPGamer Staff
    edited July 2014
    Macstorm wrote: »
    Second, it was a real-time system that didn't require direct button presses for action combat (a la Kingdom Hearts, Secret of Mana).

    I remember having to press a quick menu to use magic in Kingdom Hearts and open up a ring submenu for magic in Secret of Mana. Does that count?
    "To tell you the truth, I like drinking tea and eating fresh vegetables, but that doesn't fit with my super-cool attitude. I guess I have to accept this about myself."
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited July 2014
    watcher wrote: »
    Well it ended up at a weird seed because the biggest flaw of the BR, IMO, was the nominations. Few readers participated in the nominations. I never saw it on the main page, so I assume it didn't make it there, otherwise I would have. Plus allowing people a list of up to 20 without ranking them always favors more popular selections, regardless of merit. It's why many older games in several series, whose battle systems we almost all agree are inferior to the later games, made the list. Grandia 2 being one of them. If they ever do this again, I hope they advertise the nominations better and make people be more selective. Maybe restrict people to their top 3 or ranked top 5. Also, it'd be nice if they didn't hide the staff nomination thread/process, even if they lock non-staff from posting in it.
    Duly noted.
    InstaTrent wrote: »
    I remember having to press a quick menu to use magic in Kingdom Hearts and open up a ring submenu for magic in Secret of Mana. Does that count?
    Nope, because you have an "attack" button you press to attack. Few games do that well enough for me to like them. Ys and Amalur being a couple.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • Zeboyd GamesZeboyd Games Member Full Members
    edited July 2014
    If you do this again, could you please indicate the usernames of the staff members that are voting and not just their real names?
    Check out upcoming RPG, Cosmic Star Heroine, at http://cosmicstarheroine.com/
This discussion has been closed.