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Active Topical Banter - Episode 7: Time and Criticism March On

Fowl SorcerousFowl Sorcerous Dread News EditorRPGamer Staff
edited September 2014 in Latest Updates
As gamers get older we begin insisting the youth of today play the games that mattered way back when, this doesn't seem to work out all that well for RPGamers. Your hosts investigate the nature of this conundrum.

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Talking points for the Episode:
-Media 'ageing well' as an idea.
-These darned kids these days.
-East/West divide more apparent.
-Backtracking mishaps.
-Scott's inherent distrust of nostalgia.
-Remakes vs spiritual successors and where they fit in.

Next time: The Vita is dead(?)

Comments

  • NyxNyx Staff Girly Girl RPGamer Staff
    edited August 2014
    Next time: The Vita is dead(?)

    Insert the Nyx and Macstorm defenders club. BROFIST.
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited August 2014
    Nyx wrote: »
    Insert the Nyx and Macstorm defenders club. BROFIST.
    Brofist, indeed. OMG future episode spoilers!
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • lolwhoopslolwhoops happy accident HalifaxRPGamer Staff
    edited August 2014
    I hope the Vita isn't dead. I have a crap ton of games to play on it! Hopefully it survives until I finish them all.
    lolwhoops: a Gamer's Blog
    ^^is my blog! Updates whenever I feel like it! :D which happens a lot more often now!
    this is my twitter! come twit with me
  • BalanceBalance Member Full Members
    edited August 2014
    Love the introductions, especially Scotts phantom boss and co-nemesis and Trent who is self-validating his identity which just makes it more suspicious. For therapy I would recommend Frogpants therapy podcast, surprisingly awesome.

    :( two old games I can't go back to, are the original Zelda (which was included in the A link between Worlds which was A-mazing!) and Anachronox. I got a lot further in Septerra Core. Old games which still played well, are early Final Fantasy, Fire Emblem, and Super Robot wars. And yeah I'm a sprite -lover and proud!

    Pandas. I often think of the irony, that this mascot animal which has such a bad record of successful procreation should represent the most populous country in the world :p.
  • Gold_guardianGold_guardian Member Full Members
    edited August 2014
    Just a heads up but your subscribe feed is all messed up.

    This page contains the following errors:

    error on line 78 at column 12: Opening and ending tag mismatch: item line 0 and channel
    ~Shining Nova~
  • smacdsmacd Full Members
    edited August 2014
    I'll be the one to say it- Secret of Evermore was better than Secret of Mana.

    I've always believed that nostalgia plays a really strong role, and really affects a gamers perceptions. And that people tend to have a strong love for their "first"- hence why most people love FF7 and FFX, despite those games really not being all that good (coming from someone who actually had played the rest of the games in the series prior to those). But at the same time, I think that is why I love Dragon Quest 4 so much, is that I played that game a lot when I was young and have a lot of fond memories of it. Same goes with why I love Daggerfall more than Skyrim, despite knowing that Skyrim is technically a vastly superior game. However, I agree with the sentiment about trying not to recommend older games. I only usually make the recommendation to people actually looking for older games, or if there is a remake/port available on a current system.

    If I were to make a recommendation that everyone should play, it would be Dragon Quest 4 for RPGs, and probably 999 & VLR for non-RPGs.
  • Fowl SorcerousFowl Sorcerous Dread News Editor RPGamer Staff
    edited August 2014
    just a heads up but your subscribe feed is all messed up.

    This page contains the following errors:

    Error on line 78 at column 12: Opening and ending tag mismatch: Item line 0 and channel
    damn you errant spacebar!
  • Rya_ReisenderRya_Reisender Solipsist Snowflake Full Members
    edited August 2014
    smacd wrote: »
    I'll be the one to say it- Secret of Evermore was better than Secret of Mana.

    I've always believed that nostalgia plays a really strong role, and really affects a gamers perceptions. And that people tend to have a strong love for their "first"- hence why most people love FF7 and FFX, despite those games really not being all that good (coming from someone who actually had played the rest of the games in the series prior to those). But at the same time, I think that is why I love Dragon Quest 4 so much, is that I played that game a lot when I was young and have a lot of fond memories of it. Same goes with why I love Daggerfall more than Skyrim, despite knowing that Skyrim is technically a vastly superior game. However, I agree with the sentiment about trying not to recommend older games. I only usually make the recommendation to people actually looking for older games, or if there is a remake/port available on a current system.

    If I were to make a recommendation that everyone should play, it would be Dragon Quest 4 for RPGs, and probably 999 & VLR for non-RPGs.
    I can't really agree with you on that. While I do think that what you play first, especially what you play in your childhood, has an influence on what you like later on, it is also often so that the games back then were simply better and even if you go back to them now you will still like them more.

    Secret of Mana vs Secret of Evermore - That's very hard to compare, those games are good out of two completely different reasons. Most notably what makes Secret of Mana far superior to Secret of Evermore is that it had a multiplayer feature. Playing Secret of Mana together with a friend (or two) beats Secret of Evermore any time. Secret of Evermore on the other hand wins when it's about the atmosphere and locations.

    Also FFVI and FFVII are the best FF games by far, the others just can't compare to those two. I did play FFVI first, but I didn't play FFVII before FFIV, still I don't like FFIV all that much but FFVII a lot. FFX is probably one of the worst FF games, even if I had played that first I wouldn't have liked it. I probably wouldn't even have checked another game of the series because I had thought "FF = bad series, just ignore".

    Can't really comment on the other games as I haven't played them. I could give you lots of examples where I did like a game I played first of a series less than a sequel, though!

    What I can give you, though, is that the reason I think Sega games are far superior to anything Nintendo ever did is probably because I played Sega games as a child whereas I got a SNES only a few years later.

    Still, I think people new to gaming who still don't know the really good games, shouldn't really try to garbage that is released these days. They have so much good stuff yet to play! I envy them.
  • VictarVictar Member Full Members
    edited August 2014
    Someone mentioned being stuck on Koudelka due to a bug. He wasn't specific, but I'd bet 10,000 World of Warcraft gold he's at the endgame and doesn't have Koudelka's pendant; therefore, every time he tries to fight the last boss, he'll just get the cutscene for the bad ending.

    This is not a bug in the game. It was designed this way - there's a very brief FMV cutscene moment at the beginning, which shows Koudelka's pendant falling in the well. The player is expected to retrieve the pendant in the midgame, before the well fills up with water due to assorted events. Once the well fills with water, the pendant cannot be obtained from it.

    If the player fails to retrieve the pendant from the well, there is an alternate way to get it at the endgame (the part where the player can no longer go back and explore the mansion). There's a ledge/background area in the climb up to the final boss; if the player jumps on it, the player triggers a fight with a black cat miniboss that drops the pendant. It is not remotely obvious, and I would never have guessed this was possible without reading the strategy guide.

    I did test it out myself, just for kicks; I discarded the pendant, and used this method to get it back.

    The entire mess is clearly bad design; it punishes the player severely for not being extremely meticulous, and the only possible workaround all but requires a FAQ or a guide. It's crap like this that prevents any number of old games from "aging well".
  • ColtoColto New Member Full Members
    edited August 2014
    As for me, I can ignore a LOT of stuff in a RPG if there is a decent story. I can ignore clunky controls, bad graphics, and less than stellar gameplay if I am into what is happening in the game. I would much rather play a meaty, narrative-driven RPG with many flaws than play a majority of the crap that is pumped out these days. I would argue that story is the main reason behind why people love RPGs in the first place. Without that, the games would be just an exercise in math equations and statistics.

    I find myself more and more going backward in time in search of more games than I do looking forward to newer releases. I don't necessarily think this is an age thing, but instead a reflection of what is lacking in newer releases. With a few exceptions, it seems that games today are made for people with little attention span and no need for an experience. All you have to do is slap on highly polished graphics and minimal substance and you have yourself a AAA title that brings in truckloads of money. *cough* *CallofDuty* *cough* I'm not saying I don't enjoy those types of games, but when it feels like that is all there is to choose from, it gets tiresome. For those reasons, I would definitely recommend more classic games to gamers interested in having an "experience" and not just a game.

    I only recently found the original Baldur's gate, and not even the enhanced version. Even having never played this one, I enjoyed what it had to offer and plan on continuing to play it and others of its kind. I believe that the most rich experiences are found in the past, regardless of how people feel they hold up. You can't compare these games to modern games because that's not fair. These games offered the best they could at the time in terms of graphics and gameplay, but that is more than made up for in the writing and story-telling these games presented. I would argue older games like this do indeed hold up to modern games in the way they are able to create a world through words and dialogue. When you can do that without flashy visuals and big explosions, I would argue that's what makes a great game.
  • Strawberry EggsStrawberry Eggs Hands off the parfait! Administrators
    edited August 2014
    I bought Ultimas I-III and VII as well. :P

    And yeah, I agree that recommending kids, and even just people not used to RPGs certain games may not work out. I'm an oddball exception that is fascinated with the history of video games, both as a medium and as individual series. I could just read and watch footage of much older games, but I like to try them out as well. I get really curious about what it's like to play these games, even knowing full well that it may feel too archaic for me to be enjoyable. I can perhaps compare it to watching silent films, especially very early ones. It may be hard to get used to watching them, and some people may not enjoy them at all, but I find them fascinating. It's experiencing history, in a way.

    That being said, I don't play all too many much older RPGs. While I'm somewhat interested in other really early RPGs like Might & Magic and Wizardry, I think I only have enough gumption to play the rest of the Ultima games I have. Ultima IV was a unique experience that was fun in a quaint, almost educational sort of way. I doubt other people would be so open-minded, and I'm not chomping at the bit to play Ultimas I-III. Another series I'm interested in exploring the roots of is Megami Tensei, specifically, the first two for the Famicom. This will be decidedly less archaic than Ultima IV and more in my comfort zone, but I'm still looking at difficult dungeon crawlers that uses passwords to save and lacks several things that the MegaTen games are known for. While I want to try Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei I and II, I would more want to play through both games in their Super Famicom remake form.

    For an RPG I would recommend as part of the curriculum, there are several, but I'd go first with the World Ends With You. As for non-RPGs, probably 999, as one of the few non-RPGs I've played in recent years that I really, really enjoyed (though I've played very few non-RPGs in general so...)
    Bravely second...
    The courage to try again...

    Twitter: BerryEggs

  • Rya_ReisenderRya_Reisender Solipsist Snowflake Full Members
    edited August 2014
    For western PC games the main thing that would hold me back from recommending the really old ones are the incredibly unintuitive controls they have. Heck, even I can't play those anymore today. But for console games, back then there were only 3 buttons tops, so they are very easy to play and get into even today.
  • ColtoColto New Member Full Members
    edited August 2014

    Another series I'm interested in exploring the roots of is Megami Tensei, specifically, the first two for the Famicom. This will be decidedly less archaic than Ultima IV and more in my comfort zone, but I'm still looking at difficult dungeon crawlers that uses passwords to save and lacks several things that the MegaTen games are known for. While I want to try Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei I and II, I would more want to play through both games in their Super Famicom remake form.


    Did you know that the original Shin Megami Tensei, Shin Megami Tensei 2, and Shin Megami Tensei if... are all 3 on iOS? Only the original Shin Megami Tensei is in English, but they are all three available to be downloaded in North America. The same company has done them, so I'm a little confused why there isn't an English version of the other 2, but maybe that will happen someday
  • SuikSuik Member Full Members
    edited September 2014
    New episode please! These are funerino!

    Any idea when September's episode will glisten my ears? (I don't think glisten works in that sentence, but I just had a coffee and I like how it sounds so <3).

    You guys rock!
    I beat Persona 1 and 2. Please help me justify the countless hours lost.
    This is apart of my Personaholics Anonymous program.

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