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RPG Backtrack - Episode 173: You Meddling Kids!

JuMeSynJuMeSyn Code: KirinAdministrators
For years, the Persona series' last proper entry has been 4. To help understand the high level of anticipation the release of a fifth game in this series commands, detailing some of the things done right by one of the last big PS2 games seemed like a good idea.
A beary large number of puns may await.
It's not what he's eating, but what's eating him that makes it ... sort of interesting.

Comments

  • ShayminShaymin The Gratitude Pokemon Halifax, New SealandFull Members
    Holy crap Nathan, I'm sorry you had to go through that... and congratulations for beating it with everything intact.
    "The flowers all over its body burst into bloom if it is lovingly hugged and senses gratitude."
    Twitter | A gaming podcast by grownups | Nintendo World Report news editor
  • TwinBahamutTwinBahamut Staff Healer RPGamer Staff
    edited February 14
    Thanks for the congratulations, Shaymin. Overall, despite being really unlucky in many ways, I was lucky in other important ones, so my case wasn't too bad, really. Well, so far. Gonna be years before I can stop worrying about it coming back to haunt me, even if the chance is quite low.

    It was a pretty crazy experience, really. Getting my eye treated involved walking into a nuclear laboratory and starting down the business end of a genuine particle accelerator the size of a truck, which proceeded to bombard my eye with a charged particle beam made of pure protons. The doctors and physicists who helped me were seriously the nicest people on the planet, which helped so much.

    I wish I could say it left "everything intact", but that's actually not quite true. i'm pretty healthy overall, but the end result of everything is that I'm pretty much functionally blind in my left eye now. No more 3D gaming for me (or 3D daily life for that matter). It's a pretty fair price to pay for my life, all said and done, so I try to not let it get me down.

    This thread really isn't about me, though, so I'll just say that Persona 4 is really one of my favorites. It was fun to get to talk about it. I probably should have complained more about my constant difficulties in getting ideal fusion results though. That was annoying, haha.
  • Seifer267Seifer267 Full Members
    Always a great episode. The part about where Phil had mentioned the long drawn out ending totally flashed me back. I was surprised the rest of the cast immediately was like, "no, that didn't happen" because it totally did!
    You beat the final boss and then there is a few MONTHS until the end of the game where the protagonist leaves and all that.
    I remember beating the game (final boss I should say) and then staying up all night trying to see the credits and then having to save because it was taking so long. I'm with you P-dawg. I know what you're saying.
  • Lord GolbezLord Golbez Member Full Members
    edited February 16
    Uh.....are you talking about Persona 4, because that absolutely did not happen. A) The actual final boss MUST be fought on the last day. B) Even the fake ending final boss which can be beaten early still fast forwards you to basically the end after beating it (you get to do a christmas thing, but that's pretty much it). I can still see the argument that this is "too long," but you don't actually get to play several days/weeks. The "where's the real murderer" that he said stuff also didn't happen, because that happens on the same bloody day (it might actually be a day or two later but it's one after the other for sure) as the bad ending part he mentioned! He's creating false memories. There's no 6/7 weeks between bad ending part and finding out who the murderer is. The only thing that I can think that would be the source of such a mixup is that he's just confusing the order. If he went to completed the dungeon before the events he's talking about at the earliest possible, there would be a significant wait after the dungeon (although the bad ending part would still come close to revealing the true killer). It's wouldn't be 6-7 game weeks, more like 4, but significant enough to create that memory.
    The Tea and Biscuits Brigade offers you tea and biscuits.
  • Seifer267Seifer267 Full Members
    edited February 16
    You're telling me there is a dungeon in the january-March months?! I must've not gotten the true true true ending. How many endings does this game have?!

    Edit: my memory was correct I think I just mixed up the months. I got the right ending. Maybe it was me waiting until the last day that I remember as being a slog.
  • Lord GolbezLord Golbez Member Full Members
    edited February 16
    It's a one day dungeon. You can only play on the final day of the game - or technically the day before the final day, counting the ending. (You can exit and reenter as much as you want though, if memory serves, but no time passes - I seem to remember going back and forth to the weapon shop as I went through floors of the dungeon though, so I'm pretty sure you can leave). So I wouldn't really call it in the January-March months. You skip right from Christmas to March. There's absolutely no game in January or February (including no story sequences you just directly skip from Dec. 25 to March) and only one day in March, so calling it a dungeon in the January-March months is a bit specious.

    Edit: Yes, it's kind of a slog if you wait until the last day (Dec. 23, I think) to finish the penultimate dungeon. I think there are no or almost no story sequences in this period and limited if any available social links (assuming you haven't already maxed). If you don't wait until the last day, you'll skip to Christmas Eve when you finish the dungeon anyway.
    The Tea and Biscuits Brigade offers you tea and biscuits.
  • Seifer267Seifer267 Full Members
    Damnit. Now I have to play the game again.
  • Seifer267Seifer267 Full Members
    I figured it out. It's golden. It has months of game and epilogue that the vanilla version absolutely DOES NOT HAVE AT ALL. Including a Valentine's event and such.
    Me and Phil both played the Golden version exclusively so we remember that. Does that make golden inferior or better because it's more rife with content. Interesting.
  • Lord GolbezLord Golbez Member Full Members
    WTF? Seriously? I have to finish Golden. I had no idea they added that much. I thought it was mostly just the extra character and the bikes.
    The Tea and Biscuits Brigade offers you tea and biscuits.
  • Seifer267Seifer267 Full Members
    There is a Halloween event a ski trip extra beach trips and January through most of Feb is playable. And there's more story after beating the final dungeon. I'm having my mind blown too haha. They added so much from what I'm already assuming was an amazing game.
  • Lord GolbezLord Golbez Member Full Members
    edited February 16
    Yeah, Persona 4 is one of my favorite games even without the extra stuff. I have played at least about halfway through Golden and enjoyed it, but didn't make finishing it as much a priority as I obviously should have. Anyway, this has made me more excited to get back to Golden. Trails of Cold Steel is going to be so mad at me (guess I'm personifying my games now).
    The Tea and Biscuits Brigade offers you tea and biscuits.
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    Seifer267 wrote: »
    Always a great episode. The part about where Phil had mentioned the long drawn out ending totally flashed me back. I was surprised the rest of the cast immediately was like, "no, that didn't happen" because it totally did!
    You beat the final boss and then there is a few MONTHS until the end of the game where the protagonist leaves and all that.
    I remember beating the game (final boss I should say) and then staying up all night trying to see the credits and then having to save because it was taking so long. I'm with you P-dawg. I know what you're saying.

    Sure it was long, but who really wanted their time with those characters to end? As much as I have enjoyed the various side projects, I would have loved a Persona 4-2. All said, this reminds me that I can bear-ly contain my excitement for Persona 5.
    Ask Wheels- This Week's Episode
    sig.gif
  • Seifer267Seifer267 Full Members
    Sometimes you can have too much of a good thing. Crazy, I know haha.
    Bear puns, fortunately, are not one of them.
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    Sorry to take so long to jump on this thread. I was out of town being worked to the bone.

    Thanks for the back and forth helping to clear things up. Yes, I do believe you can have too much of a good thing. While the social / school part of the game is generally considered to be more fun than the dungeon crawling, I feel the game is best when it goes back and forth. So, I was generally doing about 10-14 days of social, then dungeon diving, then 10-14 more social, etc.

    In those final two months, however, it was ALL social. And, while many of those interactions were neat, I couldn't help but feel that the game want more out of me. And, since my personas were still upgrading (many of my team mates got NEW versions of their personas), I kept feeling like there MUST be more...another dungeon...but I couldn't quite figure out where/how to get it. Eventually, I got to the end and got the somewhat sad send off where it's implied that you missed something.

    Afterwards, I read a FAQ. Like one of the internet peeps said, Persona 4 (Golden, at least) goes out of its way to hide some of the best content from you. I now know the steps to save Marie (or get her true ending) and get to that final dungeon
    where you encounter the true mastermind behind everything
    ...but that this point I'm P4'd out. I do NOT have a burning desire to re-do that last 2+ months again for some time :pensive:

    One thing we all agree on, though, I am STOKED for P5.

  • Lord GolbezLord Golbez Member Full Members
    Did they change how you get to the final dungeon in Golden also? Or did you just not save at all during the last two months? In the original, there's nothing that can go wrong in getting to the final dungeon except on the last day (and I'm pretty sure you can't save past making the one choice that actually blocks you from the final dungeon, though not 100%). If you have a save file from the last day, you should just be able to check off the list of things you need to do and get to that final dungeon. It practically wouldn't be redoing anything if you haven't played the final dungeon at all yet.
    The Tea and Biscuits Brigade offers you tea and biscuits.
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    Did they change how you get to the final dungeon in Golden also? Or did you just not save at all during the last two months? In the original, there's nothing that can go wrong in getting to the final dungeon except on the last day (and I'm pretty sure you can't save past making the one choice that actually blocks you from the final dungeon, though not 100%). If you have a save file from the last day, you should just be able to check off the list of things you need to do and get to that final dungeon. It practically wouldn't be redoing anything if you haven't played the final dungeon at all yet.

    Yeah, I think you're right. Unfortunately for me and my OCD self, I also read the Marie ending doohickey. I liked Marie as a character, and enjoyed her story...but got really cranky how I was jipped out of it because of the way I rushed to the hospital ending (which the game *urges* you to do). That fasts forward the story to way later in December, leaving no time to work out the Marie thing. I think between seeing that I was basically jipped out of that, and my frustration level of spending two month (in game time) trying, unsuccessfully, what the game expected of me next, I just checked out, lol.

    This is in stark contrast to P3, which makes it very, very clear what your decisions at the end may do, lol. It just feels like P4G goes out of its way to ensure you don't get the good ending. Like...how do I explain this...it's not "Hidden" the way old Dragon Quest or Zelda games hid their dungeons (you have to search EVERY square), but the game/story is set up to urge you to rush in places where you need to slow down to get good endings... and then, during those last two months, you swear there's something more, but you have no clear clue what/where it is. It's bad enough if you got that feeling for an hour...we've all played RPGs where we just don't know WHICH townperson the game expects us to talk to next.... but those last two months take hours of gameplay time to get through, with dozens of NPCs that you're not sure who/when/how many times you need to chat with. Do I need to past a certain date? Will something happen in March right before I leave? Do I need to max out all social links before the deadline?

    Had the game ended in December on a decent ending (similar to P3), I would have given it higher scores than P3. But, those last two months of unknown head-scratching left a really bad taste in my mouth, partly because it just dragged on soooo long.

    One would think that after talking to what I thought was every town person 3 times in those last two months I would have stumbled across it, but I think the timing of who I spoke with, combined with when my social links were/were not maxxed, made me miss it. (To be fair, I'm HORRIBLE at figuring out hidden things.... I got completely lost just trying to find Drac's castle in Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia, because I could not find all of the hidden townpeople).
  • Lord GolbezLord Golbez Member Full Members
    Well, it sounds like that's something that's really only an issue in Golden. So, while I appreciate the existence of Golden for all the extras, the game should definitely be scored separately than Persona 4 of itself, because the original doesn't have that whole two month issue.
    The Tea and Biscuits Brigade offers you tea and biscuits.
  • JCServantJCServant Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    Well, it sounds like that's something that's really only an issue in Golden. So, while I appreciate the existence of Golden for all the extras, the game should definitely be scored separately than Persona 4 of itself, because the original doesn't have that whole two month issue.

    Yeah. Perhaps. But, as you heard on the 'cast, I'm kinda in the minority. I'm definitely more easily frustrated by things like this (and hidden townspeople in Castlevania: OoE) than your average gamer. My free time is tight, and I get offended when I feel that a game does not respect that fact, lol. Playing "Where's Waldo" in my RPGs drives me a bit batty :disappointed:
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