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Impression - Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age

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Comments

  • cpapadimitrioucpapadimitriou RPGamer Staff
    I don't know what TCGs is so I just substituted generic "deck building" game. I figured it was just a deck building game, like Dominion. Obviously the game you're talking about is different. It doesn't really matter. It was an aside and not the main point.

    Magic: The Gathering, et al. (Trading Card Games)
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    Fine, it's optional. Great. The game definitely pushes you in the direction of using it still and even without it, you still have awful MMO inspired combat.

    The game pushes you in the direction of using it to assist in combat strategy, not to do f'ing everything.

    MMO inspired? Wha? It's basically a Bioware combat system with a better interface.
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  • Lord GolbezLord Golbez Member Full Members
    edited July 6
    If I'm supposed to be defending Bioware combat systems here, don't hold your breath. In other words, I agree. You're right. It's basically a Bioware combat system.
    The Tea and Biscuits Brigade offers you tea and biscuits.
  • cpapadimitrioucpapadimitriou RPGamer Staff
    If I'm supposed to be defending Bioware combat systems here, don't hold your breath. In other words, I agree. You're right. It's basically a Bioware combat system.

    It's totally fine not to like the combat system in Bioware games.
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    Yeah, it's what BioWare wishes their combat systems were like. And I love when people compare FFXII to an MMO, as that really shows how little thought went into the comparison.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • Fowl SorcerousFowl Sorcerous Dread News Editor RPGamer Staff
    It's also question begging, no one ever establishes what is undesirable about mmos.
  • cpapadimitrioucpapadimitriou RPGamer Staff
    It's also question begging, no one ever establishes what is undesirable about mmos.

    That's a good point - I think FF12 has some MMO combat mechanics in there, and is better for it.
  • Lord GolbezLord Golbez Member Full Members
    edited July 6
    It's also question begging, no one ever establishes what is undesirable about mmos.

    Too Bioware like.

    Also, I didn't think I had to explain it. If you like MMO gameplay, you disagree with me. If you don't, maybe you know what I'm talking about. Simple as that really.

    The Tea and Biscuits Brigade offers you tea and biscuits.
  • Fowl SorcerousFowl Sorcerous Dread News Editor RPGamer Staff
    In matters of taste there can be no dispute, but in matters of dispute don't take a premise for granted.

    Which is why this argument is as old as the scotch I use to recover from reading our forums.

    Anna, can I expense this one?
  • PawsPaws Purr RPGamer Staff
    Sure! Next time you win EOTM we'll just cut a cheque for LCBO.
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    It's also question begging, no one ever establishes what is undesirable about mmos.
    It's also question begging, no one ever establishes what is undesirable about mmos.

    Too Bioware like.

    Also, I didn't think I had to explain it. If you like MMO gameplay, you disagree with me. If you don't, maybe you know what I'm talking about. Simple as that really.

    "MMO gameplay" isn't a thing. Basically any combat system that exists in MMO games is some form of stuff that already existed in non-MMO games. If you basically mean "like Everquest, FFXI, WoW etc." then you are incorrect in that comparison other then both FFXII and those games not being turn based.
    Ask Wheels- This Week's Episode
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  • Fowl SorcerousFowl Sorcerous Dread News Editor RPGamer Staff
    Paws wrote: »
    Sure! Next time you win EOTM we'll just cut a cheque for LCBO.

    they do web orders and delivery now.
  • Lord GolbezLord Golbez Member Full Members
    Man, I didn't even want to get into this argument. I was just complaining about the lack of save point in the
    Wheels wrote: »
    It's also question begging, no one ever establishes what is undesirable about mmos.
    It's also question begging, no one ever establishes what is undesirable about mmos.

    Too Bioware like.

    Also, I didn't think I had to explain it. If you like MMO gameplay, you disagree with me. If you don't, maybe you know what I'm talking about. Simple as that really.

    "MMO gameplay" isn't a thing. Basically any combat system that exists in MMO games is some form of stuff that already existed in non-MMO games. If you basically mean "like Everquest, FFXI, WoW etc." then you are incorrect in that comparison other then both FFXII and those games not being turn based.

    Uh. No. There's more to the similarity than not being turn based. Action RPGs are not turn based, but they don't have that kind of gameplay. In action RPGs each button press performs an action. There's no automation to it. FFXV, Kingdom Hearts, etc. These games are not turn based and do not have the type of gameplay I'm talking about. Bioware games do and so do any MMOs I've played, which are admittedly few. Basically attack an enemy and perform that action until the enemy is dead or you interrupt with another action.

    The Tea and Biscuits Brigade offers you tea and biscuits.
  • PawsPaws Purr RPGamer Staff
    Paws wrote: »
    Sure! Next time you win EOTM we'll just cut a cheque for LCBO.

    they do web orders and delivery now.

    Really? Awesome! I should totally send my parents something nice for their anniversary.
  • cpapadimitrioucpapadimitriou RPGamer Staff
    Man, I didn't even want to get into this argument. I was just complaining about the lack of save point in the
    Wheels wrote: »
    It's also question begging, no one ever establishes what is undesirable about mmos.
    It's also question begging, no one ever establishes what is undesirable about mmos.

    Too Bioware like.

    Also, I didn't think I had to explain it. If you like MMO gameplay, you disagree with me. If you don't, maybe you know what I'm talking about. Simple as that really.

    "MMO gameplay" isn't a thing. Basically any combat system that exists in MMO games is some form of stuff that already existed in non-MMO games. If you basically mean "like Everquest, FFXI, WoW etc." then you are incorrect in that comparison other then both FFXII and those games not being turn based.

    Uh. No. There's more to the similarity than not being turn based. Action RPGs are not turn based, but they don't have that kind of gameplay. In action RPGs each button press performs an action. There's no automation to it. FFXV, Kingdom Hearts, etc. These games are not turn based and do not have the type of gameplay I'm talking about. Bioware games do and so do any MMOs I've played, which are admittedly few. Basically attack an enemy and perform that action until the enemy is dead or you interrupt with another action.

    I think basically the gameplay you're describing is autoattack. I don't think this is an MMO thing - many MMOs don't have it and many classes in MMOs that aren't melee classes also don't make use of it even though it's technically available. FFXV has it though so it's odd it didn't make your list. Like, hold X forever until you want to do something else.
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited July 7
    Man, I didn't even want to get into this argument. I was just complaining about the lack of save point in the
    Wheels wrote: »
    It's also question begging, no one ever establishes what is undesirable about mmos.
    It's also question begging, no one ever establishes what is undesirable about mmos.

    Too Bioware like.

    Also, I didn't think I had to explain it. If you like MMO gameplay, you disagree with me. If you don't, maybe you know what I'm talking about. Simple as that really.

    "MMO gameplay" isn't a thing. Basically any combat system that exists in MMO games is some form of stuff that already existed in non-MMO games. If you basically mean "like Everquest, FFXI, WoW etc." then you are incorrect in that comparison other then both FFXII and those games not being turn based.

    Uh. No. There's more to the similarity than not being turn based. Action RPGs are not turn based, but they don't have that kind of gameplay. In action RPGs each button press performs an action. There's no automation to it. FFXV, Kingdom Hearts, etc. These games are not turn based and do not have the type of gameplay I'm talking about. Bioware games do and so do any MMOs I've played, which are admittedly few. Basically attack an enemy and perform that action until the enemy is dead or you interrupt with another action.

    Baldurs Gate hat auto-attack before MMOs were even super big dude, probably some other PC RPGs in that era that had it too.

    Unless the game is garbage though, you're ALWAYS going to be mixing in other actions so the point isn't hit attack and wait for enemy to die, it's "remove having to repeatedly give an attack command to do other stuff. If we look at MMOs for example, you're going to be strategically cycling through other abilities based on cooldowns and how fights are unfolding.

    Essentially your complaint is such games make a menial task not waste your time. If you don't like real-time RPGs fine (they aren't action rpgs) but at least be honest about the basics of how they work dude.
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  • Lord GolbezLord Golbez Member Full Members
    edited July 7
    Guess I need to play FFXV some more to see what you're talking about. Still having to hold down a button to do it seems to completely change the dynamic. I'm thinking more of the type of game where your character's just going to keep doing what they're doing unless you tell them not to, rather than where you can tell them to auto.
    The Tea and Biscuits Brigade offers you tea and biscuits.
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member Full Members
    Macstorm wrote: »
    Yeah, it's what BioWare wishes their combat systems were like. And I love when people compare FFXII to an MMO, as that really shows how little thought went into the comparison.

    Considering this came out not long after FFXI and I remember playing both of them, it had a lot of similarities with how FFXI played so I will personally call it a Single Person MMO cause that is what it felt like to me after playing FFXI.

    I also did not play much of Baldurs Gate or Icewind Dale (though I did play them briefly) I did not see the similarities with those games.
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    28 years of gaming and still going strong
    and now a mostly annoyed Father with first son. And now a father again to a second son :D

    Winner of the 2015-2016 Fantasy gaming Pool
  • Fowl SorcerousFowl Sorcerous Dread News Editor RPGamer Staff
    Paws wrote: »
    Paws wrote: »
    Sure! Next time you win EOTM we'll just cut a cheque for LCBO.

    they do web orders and delivery now.

    Really? Awesome! I should totally send my parents something nice for their anniversary.

    someone's gotta be home to accept the order, so you may ruin the surprise.
  • Lord GolbezLord Golbez Member Full Members
    edited July 9
    Wheels wrote: »
    .

    Essentially your complaint is such games make a menial task not waste your time. If you don't like real-time RPGs fine (they aren't action rpgs) but at least be honest about the basics of how they work dude.

    Not really. The only reason attacking is such a menial task is because of the way the game is designed to begin with. I've never felt that attacking is menial in Final Fantasy (pre-FF12) or that attacking is menial in Persona. It's because the way the games are designed is completely different. Would selecting "attack" every time if you kept everything else about the game exactly the same be menial? Absolutely, it would. I'm not saying get rid of that and you fix the gameplay for me. I'm latching onto an easily identifiable feature common to games that have combat systems I don't enjoy for similar reasons. And I didn't say they were action RPGs, I said action RPGs aren't turn-based and I don't have that problem with them. I'm not necessarily sure what makes those RPGs any more "real-time" than, say, ATB, but if that's the term for it, then yes, I don't like real-time RPGs.

    The Tea and Biscuits Brigade offers you tea and biscuits.
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member Full Members
    There are two types of RPG's that put me to sleep.

    1. Games that are so repetitive that they allow my brain to turn off and put me to sleep.

    2. Games that are so boring to play that I fall asleep playing them cause there's nothing else for me to do.

    FFXII is one of a very few games that falls in the latter category. Diablo 3 also gets tossed into as well. Difference is, I can potentially enjoy Diablo 3 separately from that issue cause it has a lot of mechanics which are very tight and I enjoy. FFXII ... does not
    sig.gif

    28 years of gaming and still going strong
    and now a mostly annoyed Father with first son. And now a father again to a second son :D

    Winner of the 2015-2016 Fantasy gaming Pool
  • PawsPaws Purr RPGamer Staff
    Paws wrote: »
    Paws wrote: »
    Sure! Next time you win EOTM we'll just cut a cheque for LCBO.

    they do web orders and delivery now.

    Really? Awesome! I should totally send my parents something nice for their anniversary.

    someone's gotta be home to accept the order, so you may ruin the surprise.

    Good call. Will have to arrange it on a day when my sister in law is working from home.
  • SlayerSlayer Member Full Members
    I liked having all 6 CH learn everything.
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