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Points of View - Video Game Violence

ASVASV MemberFull Members
edited October 2003 in Latest Updates
Before I post a link to the update, I'll put out a cry for reviews. I have nothing for next week, so unless you want a non-update, send me some stuff and quick.

Go read and be merry!

Comments

  • ocarina_hyruleocarina_hyrule New Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    New research demonstrates that playing violent video games can increase a person's aggressive thoughts, feelings, and behavior. Two studies by psychologists Craig Anderson and Karen Dill published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology looked at the effects of violent video games in the lab and in real life. This powerful combination of two studies presents persuasive evidence that violent video games do indeed increase aggression in some players.

    Study 1: Video Game Violence in the Real World

    In the first study the authors surveyed college students concerning their use of video games and their reported aggressive delinquent behaviors in the past. They also measured the personality trait of aggressiveness to see how that related to the other variables. Students who had played more aggressive video games had also engaged in more aggressive delinquent behavior. Trait aggressiveness made this relationship even stronger. The students who spent the most total time playing video games had the lowest academic grades in college.

    Study 2: Video Game Violence in the Lab

    The second study by the authors looked at the effects of actual video game violence. Subjects were college students who played either a violent video game (Wolfenstein 3D) or a non-violent game (Myst). These games had been chosen in a pilot study because they differed only in the degree of violence in the game and not on the amount of physiological arousal that they produced. Following video game play the students took some tests and participated in a "Competitive reaction time task" where they were told that they were playing against another student. They were told that they could blast the other student with a noise if they won, and that they could vary the intensity and duration of the blast.

    Students in both groups blasted their opponent longer and louder following trials when they had lost and their opponent had just blasted them. Students who had played Wolfenstein 3D blasted their opponent longer and louder on such trials than students who had played Myst. Female students blasted their opponents longer and louder on all trials than male students.

    The authors final conclusions are best stated by quoting the article. They state:

    The present research demonstrated that in both a correlational investigation using self-reports of real-world aggressive behaviors and an experimental investigation using a standard, objective laboratory measure of aggression, violent video game play was positively related to increases in aggressive behavior. In the laboratory, college students who played a violent video game behaved more aggressively toward an opponent than did students who had played a nonviolent video game. Outside the laboratory, students who reported playing more violent video games over a period of years also engaged in more aggressive behavior in their own lives. Both types of studies?correlational?real delinquent behaviors and experimental?laboratory aggressive behaviors have their strengths and weaknesses. The convergence of findings across such disparate methods lends considerable strength to the main hypothesis that exposure to violent video games can increase aggressive behavior. (Anderson & Dill, 2000)

    The authors note that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold enjoyed playing violent video games, and they speculate that these games played a role in their violent acts at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado in April of 1999. Eric Harris had actually modified a version of the game Doom and placed it on his Website. In his version there were two shooters, extra weapons, and the other people in the game couldn't shoot back. He and Klebold essentially acted-out their version of Doom on innocent classmates.

    These studies should be of particular concern to parents of teenagers. Playing violent video games may not be the innocent activity that many parents think it is. Based on this new evidence I recommend that parents closely monitor their teenagers' video game play. Violent video game play should be limited. Maybe the next school shooting can be prevented.
  • watcherwatcher Veteran RPGamer Full Members
    edited October 2003
    what i just got from that:

    study 1: people with violent tendencies like violent video games. people of lower intellect like violence (gee, didnt see that coming) And seriously, i'd like to know the results if they also checked for violent/dilinquent behavior before they started the violent video games. and the same goes for grades.

    -in fact i've seen the same results with people i know. the dumb violent ones like violent action video games and the smarter non-violent ones like things like rpgs (which the violent ones can't stand).

    study 2: specifically in the noise blasting section: he hit me so i hit him back harder (something any kid would do, duh) and the women being more vengeful than men was just a perk result laugh.gif

    anyway, the only thing i currently admit that violent video games and such do is desensitize people to violence.

    besides, tv and movies far outdoes video games in the category of violence and delinquint behavior. look at what popular stars do and say that doesn't encourage people more. and you're little clip is clearly committing the logical fallacy of stacking the deck. definitely one sided. most studies i've heard of and read about say that the correlation is negligible even if they say it's slight. but i don't have the time to go searching for them at the moment. i'm sure others will find something though. you attacking video games and all. tounge.gif
  • ocarina_hyruleocarina_hyrule New Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    the more violence the better
  • Options
    edited October 2003
    Granted, video game violence may contribute to aggresive behavior, but when you take a more worldly view the results are surprising. Other nations that have been influenced by the same if not more violent games than America, yet they have far less murders annually. Canada has less than 200 murders a year, and Japan has less than 50. Then you look at the United States which has thousands. If violent videogames have such a great influence on people's behavior then why aren't the Japanese having school shootings left and right. Most of these studies on violent behavior are biased because they focus on our population rather than those of other nations. Violent games don't affect behavior. Otherwise these facts would be very different. At least, that's what I believe.
  • Options
    edited October 2003
    In response to the second study posted by ocarina_hyrule, The types of games used in addition to voilent and non-voilent will dictate the results of the study. Wolfenstein and Myst do not produce the same type of experience even with a timer added to the experiment. If you pitted subjects angainst each other in a fast paced voilent first person shooter like Unreal and a fast paced non violent game like one of the later tetris games that allow vs. play, it would be a logical to assume that the results of the noise blasts would be similar because of the adreniline from the pace of the games and direct compitition between players. New studies come out all the time proving both side of the argument because the controlled factors of the games can be manipulated to get the result you are looking for.
  • Options
    edited October 2003
    RPGs are also variable when it comes to violence. Each individual has to choose what he or she wants to be exposed to. As for me, violence is fun, but I've never been in a fight.
  • PhatosePhatose Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (2Rivers1Dragon @ Oct. 14 2003,06:34)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Granted, video game violence may contribute to aggresive behavior, but when you take a more worldly view the results are surprising. ?Other nations that have been influenced by the same if not more violent games than America, yet they have far less murders annually. ?Canada has less than 200 murders a year, and Japan has less than 50. ?Then you look at the United States which has thousands. ?If violent videogames have such a great influence on people's behavior then why aren't the Japanese having school shootings left and right. ?Most of these studies on violent behavior are biased because they focus on our population rather than those of other nations. ?Violent games don't affect behavior. ?Otherwise these facts would be very different. ?At least, that's what I believe.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Of course, the US had more murders then Japan or Sweden before the invention of video games as well. Ergo, Video Games are not slated as the reason the US has more murders the either of those countries.

    Of course, since no one is suggesting that all of the US's history of violence is caused by video games, it's a moot point.
  • Red RavenRed Raven Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    I should mention that the Reviews message board is not quite the best place to be bringing up the issue of videogame violence ? I suggest Editorials. However, since the topic has already been breached I am compelled to say the following:

    There is absolutely no evidence to support the claim that videogames actually cause real-world violence.

    Seriously, does anyone do any research before engaging in armchair philosophy? Videogames have exploded in popularity in the past two decades. Youth violence has been on the decline since 1992, to the lowest levels ever recorded. You can read all about this phenomenon at the National Youth Violence Prevention Resource Center. You have studies? I have studies. When the smoke clears all that is left is the fact that no videogame has ever caused a mentally stable child to perform acts of violence that child otherwise would have not committed.

    Can children imitate GTA3 when parents allow it to baby-sit for weeks at a time? Sure. But the issue of children pretending to be carjackers on the playground rather than Cowboys and Indians is entirely different from little Timmy killing someone and then thinking that getting ?Busted? will result in him leaving the police station a few seconds later. Beyond this, there is absolutely nothing that connects videogames to violence more than ANY other activity which combines stress and adrenaline. Wolfenstein and Myst as control conditions? They may as well have used Paintball and Solitaire.

    It never ceases to nauseate me how ardent some people are in connecting dots that do not even exist. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were mentally ill teenagers who were stressed, abused, and neglected by parents, teachers, and classmates until they finally snapped. Creating their own Doom level in preparation for a planned massacre does not mean they would have not gone through with it had Doom never existed.

    Videogames do not cause violence.

    ? -Red Raven
  • PhatosePhatose Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    Red Raven - Your evidence lacks control. Scientifically, it's bunk. And you can look above to see what actual experiments, with proper controls, say about the situation.


    If I turn on the air conditioner in my room, then light a match, the temperature in the room will still go down. That doesn't prove that burning matches won't increase the temperature of my room - because they do. But since I'm not controlling the situation so that the match is the only variable, it's effect is invisible. You can't just link a variable to a total effect if you can't control the data - other, conflicting variable can and likely will confuse that data, quite severely.
  • Options
    edited October 2003
    I think the problem with the misconception is that the people who "study" video games and behavior do not look at demographs, age groups, and the relationship of adrenaline with stages of human development which drastically changes these results. Video games do give people a certain degree of an adrenaline high, but so does a scary movie.

    This research is all a nice attempt.. but for some reason it really isn't detailed and correct because I seem to be something of an anomoly to what this report has stated. I have an appreciation for an education, disipline, I was always a model American citizen, and yet I have always loved the GTA series and I currently love Halo. It doesn't end there. Where in the hell does this research mention the games like RPG's as well as other generes that make the video game industry a credible media outlet such as a book and TV? My favorite video game choice is an RPG with great?orientation in plot and characters. RPG's like Xenogears/Xenosaga/Planescape/Persona 2/Final Fantasy Tactics and etc. So why doesn't the report clarify this? Does that mean I'm more inclined to get chicken pox than a person that doesn't play RPG's or games in general? It mentions Myst but it really doesn't explain and emphisize the fact that Video games are not all shooters.

    Even though I do play shooters regularly, even then I am not agressive or display any of the characteristics that they discuss in their "findings". It may be because I am an adult, but I never went and shot anybody while I was in puberty either. It seems to me that people are using video games as a scapegoat for our ailing society that simply needs dicipline that comes from working in the field to support your family, taking martial arts and knowing when to be quiet when your instructor tells you to, being in a military oriented school, or doing other things in people's life that humbles them that they know right from wrong and don't become spoiled brats. Since not everyone wants to work in the field and etc, parents need to BE parents and not their "friends". Is a good spanking really to politically incorrect when kids to bad things?

    I need to ask these people and anyone who claims video games cause this stuff. Will stopping kids from getting video games eliminate the possibility or likelyhood that kids will not commit crimes and stop them from emminating these behaviors? What about poverty and kids who have a poor enviornment? I thought that WAS a major factor for social deviancy. Especially since the columbine kids probably wouldn't have done that CRAZY rampage if it wasn't the poor social setting that drove them nuts. Yes "nuts" and "crazy". People can just be plain "crazy". It isn't just some word people throw around. These kids were crazy, nuts, or mentally unstable if you will. Did video games make them do it? Or was their mental state seeded by the fact that they were brought up poorly and treated poorly in school. Even if they didn't have doom, how does one know they wouldn't have done that if they had watched "Tombstone" if they were still treated badly but never got into video games?

    I think the reason this report needs to be taken as a grain of salt instead of real truth is because people that do this type of research don't really know a damned thing about this form of media. They do it because their "work" asks them to. They are not actively involved in the video game scene. I'd be surprised if they knew anything outside of the mainstream stuff. They are not considering other factors such as the chemical imbalences brought on by puberty and other factors. The problem is that video games will not only give kids an adrenaline rush which is the main factor in the heighting of aggressivenes, but so do movies and TV shows like "Jackass" or a Jackie Chan flick. My god why does no one point out the fact that there is backyard wrestling? So why is it ok for our kids to sneak these other violent shows into their life? Because kids will be kids. Everybody tries to see the taboo stuff when we were smaller. Now how many of these reasearchers remember having that ONE stupid friend that did anything to get attention? I'll tell you what folks. That "stupid friend" has existed since the invention of the wheel. Videogames do nothing but keep him from doing stupid stuff during the time he is playing it conjouring new stupid activities to pull. Take the game away though and he'll still be wondering other ways to get attention.

    Frankly people and politicians like Liberman need to lay off video games and blame TV and movies as well. That is probably why Dean is kicking Liberman's arse. Because adult democrats play games too. Video games are a vastly developing media. No longer are people just making a plumber jump up and down to hit stuff, or a making a little creature to kill time. No longer are they "just for kids". Now some have stories and visual presentations that rivial and surpass other forms of media. They can do what movies and TV's can with visual presentation. They can involve as much reading and plot as books do thanks to the memory card allowing you to save and take a much needed break. Some video games have surpassed most of what you can find at Waldenbooks. Most of us here at RPG gamer know that.

    Your fellow students that claim its all about "pokemon" and "Mario" must know that they know about as much as video games genre's and products as a movie critic does whom thinks movies are all like "The Matrix". The medium has changed. Drastically. They just need to look beyond the cliche video game mainstream to understand where you and we are coming from who are jaded by sitcoms and cheap TV shows that have a never ending plot that really goes nowhere as do their stale characters. Stargate is good.. but at least games offer a conclusion to their long stories.



  • Options
    edited October 2003
    Videogames are just the current scapegoat for bad parenting. In the sixties parents complained about comic books and they were censored and controlled for a decade or so. People will find something new to dodge the issue with and everyone will forget about voilent videogames. When it was over in the seventies, the comic comunity saw some of the most popular titkes to date like Spiderman and the X-Men, so maybe we have something to look forward to.
  • Red RavenRed Raven Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    Actually, Phatose, my "evidence" is contained entirely in the study I already pointed out. It handily dissects nearly two decades of quack research which desperately tries to find an excuse for youth violence other than the obvious: the youths themselves. If you prefer, I could take large sections of research out of context and then paraphrase it for you as ocarina_hyrule was nice enough to do for us. If you or anyone is serious at all in maintaining the dastardly effect of violent videogames on young people (i.e. everyone here) then I suggest you go ahead and read it yourself.

    As you will undoubtedly discover, that match went out long, long ago - assuming it ever existed at all.

    ? -Red Raven
  • RosewoodRosewood Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (dragoon8888 @ Oct. 15 2003,04:20)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Videogames are just the current scapegoat for bad parenting. ?In the sixties parents complained about comic books and they were censored and controlled for a decade or so. ?People will find something new to dodge the issue with and everyone will forget about voilent videogames.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Yep, and since then we've had Dungeons & Dragons and hard rock blamed for various deaths and suicides. ?

    In fact, a grade-school classmate of mine murdered someone (this was when he was an adult) and from jail wrote an essay that's since made it onto at least one religious website decrying D&D. ?As though he had nothing to do with it. ?(If you really care about his name it's "<span class="spoiler">Darren Molitor</span>". ?The essay was Google-able as of a year or two ago.)

    Edit: ?It is indeed, presently Google-able. ?The very first hit for his name is a website called "skepticfiles" (hmm). ?The introduction to the essay by the webmaster says ""<span class="spoiler">Darren</span>", in his own defense, never tried to excuse his actions" however, I don't see that in the essay itself.



  • CyberSkullCyberSkull Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (dragoon8888 @ Oct. 15 2003,04:20)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Videogames are just the current scapegoat for bad parenting. In the sixties parents complained about comic books and they were censored and controlled for a decade or so. People will find something new to dodge the issue with and everyone will forget about voilent videogames. When it was over in the seventies, the comic comunity saw some of the most popular titkes to date like Spiderman and the X-Men, so maybe we have something to look forward to.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    The comic book industry in the US has yet to recover from blows it recieved in the 50s. Even the best comic books have a pulp novel status in the mainstream market, similar to how all video games are considered for kids.
    Sincerely,
    Your Dread Lord
    FF6-CyberSkull_Medium_Sig.gif
    Un-Certified Looney, Heretic @ Large, etc…
  • CyllyaCyllya Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    Some people think video games (and movies, etc) cause violence because they depict violence....

    The games I play have a "T" on the back to tell you you're not supposed to play it if you're under 13 wihout Mommy and Daddy's permission.... They show little characters smacking each other with their little swords, which causes a number to appear above the victims head. No splattering blood, no exploding body parts, no lost. A number. Ooh, that's violent.

    The books I (used to) read are a fifth-grade reading level, so the grown-ups marvel at how smart you are if you read them when you're nine-years-old and then give you this disgusted look if you read them once you're out of elementary school.... They have abundant bloodshed, random decapitations, frequent removabl of limbs, creatures on the verge of death with their innards hanging out while they still walk around, creatures falling from high places and landing in such a way that their bodies burst open like paper bags full of goo.

    Yeah, not all books are that violent. Not all video games are violent either.... My violent tendencies come from my own personality. My taste in violent fiction comes from Animorphs.
  • Options
    edited October 2003
    Forget what they say about "oh thats violent you cant play that". ?mad.gif We have to make our own decisions of what we do and not on some game.So as a great Person(someone had to say that) said "Video games dont kill its the people who are sick in the head who do that kinds of things" wow.gif

    besides what would life be without a little Gta? ?(it would be so boring... )?



  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    VIDEO GAMES MADE ME GO TO COLLEGE!

    Evil things! ^_~

    Dracos
  • PhatosePhatose Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Raven @ Oct. 15 2003,07:51)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Actually, Phatose, my "evidence" is contained entirely in the study I already pointed out. It handily dissects nearly two decades of quack research which desperately tries to find an excuse for youth violence other than the obvious: the youths themselves. If you prefer, I could take large sections of research out of context and then paraphrase it for you as ocarina_hyrule was nice enough to do for us. If you or anyone is serious at all in maintaining the dastardly effect of violent videogames on young people (i.e. everyone here) then I suggest you go ahead and read it yourself.

    As you will undoubtedly discover, that match went out long, long ago - assuming it ever existed at all.

    ? -Red Raven[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Interesting study. Still doesn't excuse this quip "Seriously, does anyone do any research before engaging in armchair philosophy? Videogames have exploded in popularity in the past two decades. Youth violence has been on the decline since 1992, to the lowest levels ever recorded." - which is what I was chastizing you for.
  • Options
    edited October 2003
    One last thing i bet you the people who did blame games because of school shootings or anything else have never ever picked up a controller or a joy stick some games that are "violent" have a good message like Metal gear solid 2"fighting for peace and ?to tach your kids about life and stuff" Silent hill "trying to save his daughter" alot of games have something good to say so thats all. I just had to let it all out.

    speek l33t? wink.gif
  • Henshin_HeathHenshin_Heath Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    video games are violent, true but people who get ideas to pick up an ak47 and go killing people should sell their games and go outside and do something other than trying to kill things


    just thought i would voice my thoughts even though they make absolutely no sense at all
  • ViperViper Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Henshin_Heath @ Oct. 19 2003,19:33)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"video games are violent, true but people who get ideas to pick up an ak47 and go killing people should sell their games and go outside and do something other than trying to kill things


    just thought i would voice my thoughts even though they make absolutely no sense at all[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    When they go outside and see the same things on their local news and in movies, it'll some how be different?
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Viper @ Oct. 19 2003,19:38)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Henshin_Heath @ Oct. 19 2003,19:33)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"video games are violent, true but people who get ideas to pick up an ak47 and go killing people should sell their games and go outside and do something other than trying to kill things


    just thought i would voice my thoughts even though they make absolutely no sense at all[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    When they go outside and see the same things on their local news and in movies, it'll some how be different?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Eeek! Logic! It burns like SUNLIGHT! Ooooh what a world!

    Dracos
    nice retort, viper, but really does this topic have anything besides mold on it?
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