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The Official RPGamer RPG Suggestion Thread

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Comments

  • RIPtoadRIPtoad Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    I'm really surprised as to how much fun I'm having playing through Dark Cloud 2 for a second time. I'm finding it totally addictive--I'm going back to earlier dungeons just to level up weapons I don't even need simply to play with them. And collecting medals has become an uncontrollable obsession. From Gouden's description of DC1 (plus what I have heard of it elsewhere), it sounds like there were roadblocks presented to the enjoyment of the game. I think they've fixed pretty much everything for this iteration. The story can be a bit eye-rolling at times (I am so sick of villains who really aren't), but the gameplay is really fun. I'm still putting this forward as a strong recommendation.
  • Cecil_de_BaronCecil_de_Baron Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    I've been interested in Shin Megami Tensei:Nocturne and Digitial Devil Saga for the PS2, but the "controversial" story has left me with doubts in regards to purchasing these two games. ?During a visit to my local EB, I consulted the strategy guide for Nocturne to see if it was something I would like. ?As I flipped through the pages, I noticed that the interview section in the back of the book had something to the effect of: "The Judeo-Christian God has been/is portrayed as the/a villian in the SMT series." ?I apologize for the quote not being entirely accurate, but it has been some time since I read this statement. ?I have read the reviews here and this statement from a SMT:N review caught my eye:

    <table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td width="10" id="QUOTEHEAD">Q
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    E</td><td class="QUOTE"The answers the player gives to these questions and others like it will determine not just the course of the plot but the state of the world to come, and even has consequences in the greater war between the two major players in the SMT series; YHWH and Satan. Though these two characters represent Light and Dark, the game doesn't instantly typecast them as Good and Evil. Both sides commit some horrific atrocities in the name of their ideals, and the world is full of innocent bystanders. (Quoted from "Rhapsody in Shades of Evil by Michael Beckett" Review)[/QUOTE]

    So my question is this: Does the series (SMT:N and DDS in particular) portray YHWH as the viliian, both Satan and YHWY as the villians, or am I way out in left field? ?I don't have any real problems with the aspects of using 'demons' as party members, but I would like to better understand how exactly this game portrays God and Satan. ?Basically, do these games glorify Satan or portray both as uncaring about the masses caught inbetween their struggle for domination? ?Feel free to use spoilers as neccesary (while still using the spoiler button of course) to explain this to me.

    I apologize if this was the wrong Topic to post my question, but this seemed to be the best place to post this. ?Thanks ahead of time for taking the time to read this if nothing else. ? smile.gif
  • Options
    edited July 2005
    This is a thread where people can get suggestions on RPGs and discuss those suggestions, not one where you can come in and advertise your MUD. Do not spam again.

    ~Martyr



  • Options
    edited July 2005
    Since you were so nice to tell me about such a wonderful game, I've got a present for you, Soleil.
  • Gouden DraakGouden Draak Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    <table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td colspan="2">(Cecil_de_Baron @ Jul. 07 2005,03:53)</td></tr><tr><td width="10" id="QUOTEHEAD">Q
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    E</td><td class="QUOTE"I've been interested in Shin Megami Tensei:Nocturne and Digitial Devil Saga for the PS2, but the "controversial" story has left me with doubts in regards to purchasing these two games. ?During a visit to my local EB, I consulted the strategy guide for Nocturne to see if it was something I would like. ?As I flipped through the pages, I noticed that the interview section in the back of the book had something to the effect of: "The Judeo-Christian God has been/is portrayed as the/a villian in the SMT series." ?I apologize for the quote not being entirely accurate, but it has been some time since I read this statement. ?I have read the reviews here and this statement from a SMT:N review caught my eye:

    <table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td width="10" id="QUOTEHEAD">Q
    U
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    E</td><td class="QUOTE"The answers the player gives to these questions and others like it will determine not just the course of the plot but the state of the world to come, and even has consequences in the greater war between the two major players in the SMT series; YHWH and Satan. Though these two characters represent Light and Dark, the game doesn't instantly typecast them as Good and Evil. Both sides commit some horrific atrocities in the name of their ideals, and the world is full of innocent bystanders. (Quoted from "Rhapsody in Shades of Evil by Michael Beckett" Review)[/QUOTE]

    So my question is this: Does the series (SMT:N and DDS in particular) portray YHWH as the viliian, both Satan and YHWY as the villians, or am I way out in left field? ?I don't have any real problems with the aspects of using 'demons' as party members, but I would like to better understand how exactly this game portrays God and Satan. ?Basically, do these games glorify Satan or portray both as uncaring about the masses caught inbetween their struggle for domination? ?Feel free to use spoilers as neccesary (while still using the spoiler button of course) to explain this to me.

    I apologize if this was the wrong Topic to post my question, but this seemed to be the best place to post this. ?Thanks ahead of time for taking the time to read this if nothing else. ? smile.gif[/QUOTE]
    Hey Cecil, I am a big fan of Nocturne. I haven`t played any of the other games from the Megaten series other than the Digital Devel Saga.

    First off, I believe the Digital Devil Saga has almost no Christian religion in it. It has a hindu flavour, rather, about karma, reincarnation and rebirth. The "worst" part of this game is the idea that you eat your enemies. You don`t actually see anything (oher than a blurry and gory intro scene) so it did not bother me that much. The game is great though.

    As for Nocturne, there are some who get upset at the way the Christian religion is portrayed. God isn`t wholly evil and Lucifer isn`t wholly good. To put it one way, Lucifer is Chaos/Freedom and God is Law/Obedience. However, in this game, you are given the choice to defy Law (if you decide its a bad law). However, the choice is up to you. You can be God`s opponent if you desire, or you can do what he wants, or you can go your own way.

    Are they both evil? No, but neither is perfect and neither is glorified. If you do the long Amala sidequest, "<span class="spoiler">you do get to speak with an old man who is Lucifer himself and hear his side of the story. You never get to speak to God, only his servants/minions. </span>".

    One scene that may be distubing is that the angels follow a path called Yosuga. "<span class="spoiler">This path believes might makes right and they participate in the genocide of a weaker race</span>" This is a very shocking scene, but you could say that the angels are acting as another kind of demon, rather than as servants of God.

    I hope this helps a bit and I didn`t spoil too much. I tried to keep things vague but informative.
  • DavisDavis 2 Human 2 Furious Full Members
    edited July 2005
    I really need to play Nocturne...

    Five tons of Flax,
    Davis
  • Gouden DraakGouden Draak Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    I really enjoyed playing a mature game that really was mature (none of this mature because I throw in tons of cheap sex shockers stuff)

    It felt a bit intellectual because it made you think a bit. Your choices are big and there is no la-la-happy-happy-joy-joy that some RPGs seem to have. Its a damn bleak world out there in Nocturne. Heck, with DDS too.



  • Cecil_de_BaronCecil_de_Baron Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    Thank you very much Gouden Draak, that clears up a lot of questions I had about the two games. ?There's a good chance I'll give these games a chance eventually thanks to this (when my meager budget allows it).
  • Gouden DraakGouden Draak Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    Glad I could be of help! ?smile.gif

    Should try get these games soon though. Atlus only does a limited run, so they're pretty rare already. DDS has a sequel coming out this year (its a 2-parter) as well.

    I feel I should mention that while I love these games, many are frustrated by the high encounter rate and the cheap deaths. Nocturne's rate and deaths are very high and strategy and guarding your weaknesses are uber-important. DDS still has a high encounter rate, but the gameplay and death-rate are more forgiving. However, load times in both are virtually non-existant so I found the rate less annoying than games with low rates and loooooong load times. (I'm looking at you, Xenosaga 2!) In case that helps....



  • ShevekShevek New Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    Hey all. Im not an avid console rpg player. I typically play cRPGs with my favorites being games like Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Wizardry 8 and so on. In any case, the cRPG market seems kinda weak at the moment and Im looking for something to play. I have a PS2 and am up for any suggestions of rpgs on consoles that dont fall to typical console conventions. In other words, no 12 year olds sent off by "wisemen" to save the unverse from angsty teens with silver hair by collecting the 7 jewels of power and defeating the 3 super giants. I also tend to dislike overblown psychology that feels out of place.

    One console rpg I liked on my PS1 was Valkyrie Profile. I thought the story was a bit far fetched but the whole death thing was well done and they had protagonists older than 15 which was nice. Anything like that on PS2? You know, a game with older protagonists and a story that isnt full of pretentious pseudo psychology?
  • DavisDavis 2 Human 2 Furious Full Members
    edited July 2005
    <table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td colspan="2">(Shevek @ Jul. 08 2005,14:49)</td></tr><tr><td width="10" id="QUOTEHEAD">Q
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    E</td><td class="QUOTE"I typically play cRPGs with my favorites being games like Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Wizardry 8 and so on. In any case, the cRPG market seems kinda weak at the moment and Im looking for something to play.[/QUOTE]
    Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, the answer is always Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.

    Five tons of Flax,
    Davis
  • Gouden DraakGouden Draak Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    From the list of games you like, I might suggest X-Men Legends, since it seems to have a similar gameplay to the PS2 version of BG. Champions of Norrath (1&2) maybe as well?

    Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, as discussed before has an excellent bare bones story that is not conventional. No love interests or definative villains. You can also recruit demons to be your party members too. Teenage protagonist, but he`s mute so there is no whining tounge.gif

    Digital Devil Saga might also work for you. Its not the usual fare either. The characters aren`t teenagers (except perhaps one, Cielo)

    A lot of the other RPGs I play are either tactical RPGs or have that "standard" storyline though.... tounge.gif



  • ShevekShevek New Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    <table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td colspan="2">(Gouden Draak @ Jul. 08 2005,15:19)</td></tr><tr><td width="10" id="QUOTEHEAD">Q
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    E</td><td class="QUOTE"From the list of games you like, I might suggest X-Men Legends, since it seems to have a similar gameplay to the PS2 version of BG. Champions of Norrath (1&2) maybe as well?

    Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, as discussed before has an excellent bare bones story that is not conventional. No love interests or definative villains. You can also recruit demons to be your party members too. Teenage protagonist, but he`s mute so there is no whining tounge.gif

    Digital Devil Saga might also work for you. Its not the usual fare either. The characters aren`t teenagers (except perhaps one, Cielo)

    A lot of the other RPGs I play are either tactical RPGs or have that "standard" storyline though.... tounge.gif[/QUOTE]
    Well, I wasnt a big fan of Dark Alliance but that Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga sound interesting. Thats for the tip.

    Davis:

    Ya, Bloodlines is great (played a Malkavian; had a blast). The only similar title (fps-rpg I mean, not theme) I know of thats in development is one by Irrational Games that will be a spiritual successor to System Shock 2. Sadly, thats probably years off.



  • DavisDavis 2 Human 2 Furious Full Members
    edited July 2005
    Bethesda's got Fallout 3 in the works... but that'll be a while as well. Plus, I don't really trust them with that particular IP.

    Five tons of Flax,
    Davis
    "You've made a powerful enemy today, sign."
  • Cecil_de_BaronCecil_de_Baron Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    Posted by Gouden Draak
    <table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td width="10" id="QUOTEHEAD">Q
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    E</td><td class="QUOTE"Should try get these games soon though. Atlus only does a limited run, so they're pretty rare already. DDS has a sequel coming out this year (its a 2-parter) as well.[/QUOTE]

    <table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td width="10" id="QUOTEHEAD">Q
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    E</td><td class="QUOTE"In case that helps....[/QUOTE]

    It does Draak. ?I'm looking foward to the difficulty of these two myself, I haven't had a solid challenge from a RPG in a while. ?I'm just a little tight on cash at the moment, having just spent the last of my spare cash on Atelier Iris before my first post. ?Thanks again.

    PS Sorry for the crappy looking quotes, I'll look around the newbie help threads and see how you guys get them to look neater.
  • RIPtoadRIPtoad Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    Okay, it's my turn now. Prices are finally dropping sufficiently, so I would like some input. Of the following, which would you pick up if you had only one choice?

    1. Star Ocean: Til the End of Time
    2. Shadow Hearts: Covenant
    3. Xenosaga Ep. 2

    or, just for the fun of it

    4. Champions of Norrath: Return to Arms

    I'm really torn. I never finished Shadow Hearts 1, mainly due to the pain in the butt that was the Graveyard (specifically, the need to constantly relieve the evil buildup), but I hear that's not an issue this time around. So, any thoughts?
  • Gouden DraakGouden Draak Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    I have played all of them except the fourth (the first Norrath didn;t work out - too hack and slash) - these are MY opinions, so no flaming please, dank u wel, sil vous plait!

    Star Ocean
    Good - long story, addictive inventing mode, multiple endings
    Bad - story takes a long time to set up, expect it to finally hit its stride 2 hours or so in. (Same problem Star Ocean 2 had) Battles can be a bit button-mashy at times, but they still offer a bit of strategy.
    GD Rating - 80%

    Shadow Hearts: C
    Good - excellent story and lots of do-able sidequests. The Graveyard has a reduced role now and you don`t need to run back there to kill off excess malice anymore. 2 endings
    Bad - I found the battles boring and simple myself. (my husband likes them more though, but he`s not a Nocturne/DDS freak tounge.gif) Lots of sexual innuendo (I found it a bit much, but others might but that into the `good`side).
    GD rating 70%

    Xenosaga 2
    Good - nice graphics and story - although it tends to focus on Junior and Albedo for the most part of the second installment.
    Bad - Load times are ridiculous, making exploring and battles tedious at times. Battles are slow and boring.
    GD rating 60%
  • RicoRico Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    Do you have an Xbox or a decent PC? It sounds like you might like the Knights of the Old Republic games.
  • RIPtoadRIPtoad Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    <table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td colspan="2">(Rico @ Jul. 15 2005,14:48)</td></tr><tr><td width="10" id="QUOTEHEAD">Q
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    E</td><td class="QUOTE"Do you have an Xbox or a decent PC? ?It sounds like you might like the Knights of the Old Republic games.[/QUOTE]
    Alas, I have no Microsoft products at all. Fortunately, those wonderful people at Aspyr did bring KOTOR over to the Mac, and I have indeed purchased and played it already. I absolutely loved that game!

    Gouden, thanks for the input! I think that I'm pretty much going to rule out Xeno 2--Jr. and Albedo were my least favorite characters in the original, and those load times do not sound particularly enjoyable. I think I'm leaning towards Star Ocean at this point, though I have found a reasonably priced Neverwinter Nights for the Mac, so I have to factor that in now, as well...

    Though it did get repetitious, I did enjoy (and indeed put hundreds of hours into) Champions of Norrath. I guess I loved collecting all that loot and getting my characters into cool-looking armor combos. Sort of a medieval Barbie dress-up game, I guess. Hmmm... somehow, that doesn't sound too manly. Ah, well. The sequel sounds like--well, basically the same game. So, I guess that one isn't seriously in contention here.

    Of course, I may just snap and go for Atelier Iris at full price. It's a bit beyond my budget at the moment, but I am fairly interested in checking it out. Ah, decisions, decisions...



  • RicoRico Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    Er, huh, I thought I hit Quote and was recommending those to Shevek.

    I liked SO3 a lot, but SH:C was on my Game-of-the-Year list.
  • Gouden DraakGouden Draak Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    I would imagine that its down to those two... (SO and SH:C)

    Star Ocean is the more dialogue and story heavy of the two if that helps....
  • RIPtoadRIPtoad Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    <table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td colspan="2">(Gouden Draak @ Jul. 15 2005,18:06)</td></tr><tr><td width="10" id="QUOTEHEAD">Q
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    E</td><td class="QUOTE"I would imagine that its down to those two... (SO and SH:C)

    Star Ocean is the more dialogue and story heavy of the two if that helps....[/QUOTE]
    Hey, every little bit. biggrin.gif As for dialog heavy, I can't even imagine anything comparing with KOTOR in that category. Man, did they love to gab in that game!
  • DavisDavis 2 Human 2 Furious Full Members
    edited July 2005
    But the gabbing was oh so delectable. wow.gif

    Five tons of Flax,
    Davis
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    Riptoad:

    Three words: Metal Gear Blanca.

    Go get your Shadow Hearts: Covenent on. =P Just think about Shadow Hearts as if it had the polish in all areas of FFX.

    Dracos
  • OmbresOmbres Games horder Full Members
    edited July 2005
    <table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td colspan="2">(RIPtoad @ Jul. 15 2005,13:41)</td></tr><tr><td width="10" id="QUOTEHEAD">Q
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    Alas, I have no Microsoft products at all.[/QUOTE]

    You are blessed indeed! ?laugh.gif



    Always enjoy all the experience in life, you might gain a level or two.
    sig.gif
  • RIPtoadRIPtoad Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    <table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td colspan="2">(Davis @ Jul. 15 2005,22:57)</td></tr><tr><td width="10" id="QUOTEHEAD">Q
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    E</td><td class="QUOTE"But the gabbing was oh so delectable. ?wow.gif

    Five tons of Flax,
    Davis[/QUOTE]
    Oh, but I know! That was actually my subtle way of saying that gabbing characters in a game don't bother me. When it comes to love of all things KOTOR, I am there. biggrin.gif

    As for Shadow Hearts: Covenant--well, I just ordered the Star Ocean title, with accompanying fat-Moo strategy guide, so I hope that it doesn't suck. It doesn't look like it should. It was a very tough decision--Star Ocean won out on account of it being $10 cheaper. Of course, I did just turn around and blow that on the guide... Ah, well. Maybe by the time I finish it, Covenant will have come down a bit more and I can pick it up then. Hopefully.

    Out of curiosity, is Vagrant Story any good, and would it be worth $25 today?


    <table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td colspan="2">(Ombres @ Jul. 15 2005,23:26)</td></tr><tr><td width="10" id="QUOTEHEAD">Q
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    E</td><td class="QUOTE"You are blessed indeed! ?laugh.gif[/QUOTE]
    Ah, perhaps. But it is a mixed blessing, indeed.



  • DavisDavis 2 Human 2 Furious Full Members
    edited July 2005
    Vagrant Story was the most expensive coaster I ever purchased.

    Five tons of Flax,
    Davis
  • RIPtoadRIPtoad Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    <table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td colspan="2">(Davis @ Jul. 15 2005,23:48)</td></tr><tr><td width="10" id="QUOTEHEAD">Q
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    E</td><td class="QUOTE"Vagrant Story was the most expensive coaster I ever purchased.

    Five tons of Flax,
    Davis[/QUOTE]
    Point taken. Kind of surprising, with the reviews it got. I saw one proclaiming it the best game of all time. Well, nearly. Go figure.
  • DavisDavis 2 Human 2 Furious Full Members
    edited July 2005
    PSX-era ratings creep was pretty funny.

    Five tons of Flax,
    Davis
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited July 2005
    That review was here, I believe. It started the institution of mandatory multiple levels of peer review prior to staff reviews on new games going up.

    Anyhow, Star Ocean 3 has sat for months in its box unfinished. I hold to what Tycho said on it. If you survive the first fifteen hours without hating it, you deserve what game you get afterwards. =P

    Dracos
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