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Final Fantasy XIII Spoiler Thread

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  • Anna Marie PrivitereAnna Marie Privitere Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited January 2010
    ~~~WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH!~~~
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2010
    Both Tales of Graces (4.5 stars) and Tales of Vesperia (4 stars) have even scored higher on Amazon than Final Fantasy XIII.

    Tales of Graces - Rating
    Tales of Vesperia - Rating

    We should compare the U.S. Amazon site for the game reviews and see how they did. I'm not sure how the wolf shirt fits into the equation even though the reviews were hilarious.
  • TiptailTiptail Member Full Members
    edited January 2010
    Did you read any of the reviews on the Amazon link I posted a few days ago?
    They might be a bit more politely written than a typical mediocre-to-bad English Amazon review, but I wouldn't call them objective at all. Or even particularly descriptive. At least the random sampling that I glanced through. This is dame, that is dame, everything is super dame. And comments like "It's not a game, it's a movie!" are extraordinarily hyperbolous. It's not that people can't make comments like that, but every comment in that vein takes level of reasonability down a notch.

    Anyways, Amazon isn't a great measuring stick for overall opinion. And for the first few months or so, reviews and impressions aren't either. To get a genuine outlook on how the Japanese (and later, North Ameria and Europe) will have received it, we need to wait. It's the same way with most games--that simple. It's like water sloshing back and forth between two extremes. We need to let things calm down before we can see what kind of long-term impact the game will have. Any attempts to declare it now would be heavy handed.

    Off the topic of Amazon (how did that happen?) and on the topic of the game itself:

    Unfortunates,
    You're absolutely right about people's expectation of what the game might be like, and how they react when their expectations are shaken. If people can get around their notions, I think they'll enjoy the game a lot more. For some, RPG tropes might be a stumbling block they can't get over, unfortunately.

    On the characters, I agree to a point. I think all the pieces were there for the story and characters. It could have been awesome. It could have been really awesome. The personalities that showed up during the game were well-packaged and consistent. I found Sazh and Vanille (perhaps despite myself) extremely likeable.

    I feel that the game didn't put all the pieces together correctly. The Japanese dialogue was not overall great, and while some of the individual scenes had what seemed like real emotion and strength behind them, the lack of context behind them greatly lessened their emotional impact. Some of them felt out-of-the-blue in a bad way, like Lightning realizing that she has (apparently) been following fal'Cie blindly all her life (the "fal'Cie leash" comments that made it into one of the English trailers). Why? How? In what way? We don't get a real working glimpse of how her world works to understand those feelings, so the scene felt contrived to me. Lots of scenes did. Vanille, Hope and Fang's pre-summon-battle scenes felt like this too. They all went from calm to extremely distressed in a very short period of time, but I couldn't identify with them, unlike Lightning, Snow and Sazh.

    The lack of towns (in the traditional sense) doesn't significantly hurt the gameplay. I think it hurts the story more. It means that the player doesn't get a very good natural worldview, and you lose a lot of the subtle contexts and characterizations that come with towns and NPCs. The few times we got NPC interaction (opening chapters and Nautilus, and maybe a bit in Palumpolum), some of it was frivolous, yes, about plushies and junk, but some of it boosted my grasp of Cocoon just a bit. Say what you will about Final Fantasy XII, but that was a game whose world was significantly enhanced by the NPCs (whose comments changed after nearly everything). What the story didn't hand on a platter to you, many of the gaps were filled in by the people of Rabanastre, in a way. But Final Fantasy XIII doesn't fill those gaps.

    The opening cinema to Chapter 12 was the epitome of the large, self-indulgent cinematics that the game favours over small stuff that might have done it better. When I watched it, I felt both drawn in and jarred out of the experience. I think I shook my head and laughed, too, as soon as <span class="spoiler">the party hit the racetrack and all that ensued afterwards</span>. It's very flashy, very shaky cam, very action movie. It was thrilling, but shallow.

    The game experience was amazing in many ways, and very deliberately crafted, but I wish they had polished the story up.
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2010
    Did you read any of the reviews on the Amazon link I posted a few days ago?
    They might be a bit more politely written than a typical mediocre-to-bad English Amazon review, but I wouldn't call them objective at all. Or even particularly descriptive. At least the random sampling that I glanced through. This is dame, that is dame, everything is super dame. And comments like "It's not a game, it's a movie!" are extraordinarily hyperbolous. It's not that people can't make comments like that, but every comment in that vein takes level of reasonability down a notch.

    Anyways, Amazon isn't a great measuring stick for overall opinion. And for the first few months or so, reviews and impressions aren't either. To get a genuine outlook on how the Japanese (and later, North Ameria and Europe) will have received it, we need to wait. It's the same way with most games--that simple. It's like water sloshing back and forth between two extremes. We need to let things calm down before we can see what kind of long-term impact the game will have. Any attempts to declare it now would be heavy handed.

    Off the topic of Amazon (how did that happen?) and on the topic of the game itself:

    Unfortunates,
    You're absolutely right about people's expectation of what the game might be like, and how they react when their expectations are shaken. If people can get around their notions, I think they'll enjoy the game a lot more. For some, RPG tropes might be a stumbling block they can't get over, unfortunately.

    On the characters, I agree to a point. I think all the pieces were there for the story and characters. It could have been awesome. It could have been really awesome. The personalities that showed up during the game were well-packaged and consistent. I found Sazh and Vanille (perhaps despite myself) extremely likeable.

    I feel that the game didn't put all the pieces together correctly. The Japanese dialogue was not overall great, and while some of the individual scenes had what seemed like real emotion and strength behind them, the lack of context behind them greatly lessened their emotional impact. Some of them felt out-of-the-blue in a bad way, like Lightning realizing that she has (apparently) been following fal'Cie blindly all her life (the "fal'Cie leash" comments that made it into one of the English trailers). Why? How? In what way? We don't get a real working glimpse of how her world works to understand those feelings, so the scene felt contrived to me. Lots of scenes did. Vanille, Hope and Fang's pre-summon-battle scenes felt like this too. They all went from calm to extremely distressed in a very short period of time, but I couldn't identify with them, unlike Lightning, Snow and Sazh.

    The lack of towns (in the traditional sense) doesn't significantly hurt the gameplay. I think it hurts the story more. It means that the player doesn't get a very good natural worldview, and you lose a lot of the subtle contexts and characterizations that come with towns and NPCs. The few times we got NPC interaction (opening chapters and Nautilus, and maybe a bit in Palumpolum), some of it was frivolous, yes, about plushies and junk, but some of it boosted my grasp of Cocoon just a bit. Say what you will about Final Fantasy XII, but that was a game whose world was significantly enhanced by the NPCs (whose comments changed after nearly everything). What the story didn't hand on a platter to you, many of the gaps were filled in by the people of Rabanastre, in a way. But Final Fantasy XIII doesn't fill those gaps.

    The opening cinema to Chapter 12 was the epitome of the large, self-indulgent cinematics that the game favours over small stuff that might have done it better. When I watched it, I felt both drawn in and jarred out of the experience. I think I shook my head and laughed, too, as soon as <span class="spoiler">the party hit the racetrack and all that ensued afterwards</span>. It's very flashy, very shaky cam, very action movie. It was thrilling, but shallow.

    The game experience was amazing in many ways, and very deliberately crafted, but I wish they had polished the story up.
    I am sure there may be some bad reviews but from the couple hundred I read through they almost all seem to share the same opinion in a nutshell:

    Graphics - Excellent
    Music - Mediocre
    Story - Bad
    Gameplay - Mediocre
    Difficulty - Hard (for an RPG)
    Enjoyment - Mediocre

    Having played the game myself, seeing the Amazon reviews and numerous magazine reviews in both English and Japanese, and even reading what posting with others on this thread and other various places, I think the above is a pretty fair assessment of the game in short.

    I also agree that the story falls far short of greatness. I really wanted to like the characters because they are well designed but if anyone tried to pass the story for this game off as a book, we would see a worldwide book burning because of the shallowness of nearly everything. Final Fantasy XIII is the game that tries to do so much and then misses the point on almost everything. Final Fantasy XIII is comparable to Metal Gear Solid 4 in being much more of a movie than a game.

    Uncharted 2: Among Thieves on the other hand does almost everything RIGHT that Final Fantasy XIII does WRONG. The best part about Uncharted 2 is that you actually get to PLAY the game in the cool scenes while in Final Fantasy XIII, you'd better pull up a banana chair, get comfy, and be prepared to be UNimpressed by the dialogue in almost every scene while getting an eyeful of the flashiest pre-rendered movies we've seen yet on a console.
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited January 2010
    Wow. After four straight pages of posts, there has been only ONE story spoiler in this entire thread.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited January 2010
    Quote: wrote:
    Anyways, Amazon isn't a great measuring stick for overall opinion. And for the first few months or so, reviews and impressions aren't either. To get a genuine outlook on how the Japanese (and later, North Ameria and Europe) will have received it, we need to wait. It's the same way with most games--that simple. It's like water sloshing back and forth between two extremes. We need to let things calm down before we can see what kind of long-term impact the game will have. Any attempts to declare it now would be heavy handed.

    Well put, Tip of Tail.
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • ClixClix Former Listmaster Full Members
    edited January 2010
    Wow. After four straight pages of posts, there has been only ONE story spoiler in this entire thread.
    Fine, if that's how you're going to be.

    <span class="spoiler">In the end, every "dies" by becoming crystals after the collapse of Cacoon. However, Vanille and Fang combine their hidden unique abilities [both have been doing Focuses for centuries now] to save Pulse from the fall of Cacoon. At the same time, by sacrificing themselves and becoming eternal crystals, they are able to reverse of the crystalization of the other four party members, as well as Serah and Dajh.</span>

    There, I've spoiled the ending. Happy now?
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited January 2010
    Hah, I'm actually not going to read that - despite trying to mod this forum, I'm doing my best to keep spoiler free until I play the game. I'm just amused that despite this thread existing for spoilers because people supposedly wanted to discuss the spoiler portions of the game, this has focused entirely on Amazon review scores.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • mjemirzianmjemirzian New Member Full Members
    edited January 2010
    Still looking for details on:

    Rank system - from what I know, it's entirely based on time taken which is calculated from your parties stats.

    What about battles change when you consistently get 5 star rank on battles?

    Is there any uber post-game boss that makes players cry hot tears of shame? Because all the post game vids I've seen in videos so far is overpowered parties blowing up anything in their path. Apparently some kind of 'optima-cancel' has been discovered that makes the game a complete joke.
  • Options
    edited January 2010
    I saw a really bad thing with XII, and this confirms my doubts about XIII.
    I Don't understand how they can let the creator of FF go away, and expect to make the games that we all love.
    There is a reason we are all buying Final Fantasy after Final Fantasy - and that reason is somewhere in the head of Hironobu Sakaguchi.
    You can't just try to mimic that kind of talent.
    It's too bad they ever tried to make a movie - imagine what the company would be like if they never did...
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2010
    I saw a really bad thing with XII, and this confirms my doubts about XIII.
    I Don't understand how they can let the creator of FF go away, and expect to make the games that we all love.
    There is a reason we are all buying Final Fantasy after Final Fantasy - and that reason is somewhere in the head of Hironobu Sakaguchi.
    You can't just try to mimic that kind of talent.
    It's too bad they ever tried to make a movie - imagine what the company would be like if they never did...
    Agreed. We haven't seen a really fleshed out Final Fantasy game since he left. The stories we're getting now are empty and dull. Hironobu Sakaguchi has often been referred to as a control freak when it comes to his games but we tend to get something good when he's in charge because he doesn't settle for anything less than what he believes his team is capable of.

    In a nutshell, he's like the Steve Jobs of gaming. And Square-Enix, well...they're kind of like Microsoft who blesses us with their mediocre crap 90% of the time. laugh.gif
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited January 2010
    I was willing to buy that Hironobu Sakaguchi was the driving force behind the series until played Lost Odyssey.
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2010
    I was willing to buy that Hironobu Sakaguchi was the driving force behind the series until played Lost Odyssey.
    I'll agree that it wasn't the perfect game (some strange animations, toned down battle system, etc.) but considering Mistwalker's limited budget, we got more bang for our buck than any Final Fantasy game has provided us since the last one he worked on which was Final Fantasy X. Lost Odyssey's story and characters are seriously so well developed in comparison to anything we got in Final Fantasy XI, XII, or XIII.
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited January 2010
    I'd like to ask that if we're going to talk about things not related to spoilers in the storyline of Final Fantasy XIII, please don't use this thread for it. There's a thread for general, spoiler-free discussion.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • MaudrenMaudren i can post! thanx paws! Full Members
    edited February 2010
    Wow. After four straight pages of posts, there has been only ONE story spoiler in this entire thread.
    Haha lucky me, I thought I was in the spoiler free thread for a few minutes trying to track down the conversation that was going on in that one.

    I shall now quickly depart this thread!
    sup?
  • OyashiroOyashiro NEEDS MOAR UNDERBOOB! Full Members
    edited February 2010
    Wow. After four straight pages of posts, there has been only ONE story spoiler in this entire thread.
    Aeris dies. down.gif
    Give me Underboob, or give me death!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "As a gaming enthusiast, people who carry a pro-hacker flag for selfish self-entitled reasons and willfully ignore the damage that rampant piracy does to developers as well as hardware producers don't deserve to enjoy the games and systems that these companies have poured their souls into to produce."

    "A late game is only late until it ships. A bad game is bad until the end of time." ~ David Jaffe
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited February 2010
    Wow. After four straight pages of posts, there has been only ONE story spoiler in this entire thread.
    Aeris dies. down.gif
    First page, NOOB
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • OyashiroOyashiro NEEDS MOAR UNDERBOOB! Full Members
    edited February 2010
    Wow. After four straight pages of posts, there has been only ONE story spoiler in this entire thread.
    Aeris dies. down.gif
    First page, NOOB
    Says a person using spoiler tags in a spoiler thread. cool.gif
    Give me Underboob, or give me death!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "As a gaming enthusiast, people who carry a pro-hacker flag for selfish self-entitled reasons and willfully ignore the damage that rampant piracy does to developers as well as hardware producers don't deserve to enjoy the games and systems that these companies have poured their souls into to produce."

    "A late game is only late until it ships. A bad game is bad until the end of time." ~ David Jaffe
  • StormofSwordsStormofSwords Crazed Bullet Miser Full Members
    edited March 2010
    Final Fantasy XIII impressions: Four hours through;

    +Great Art Design
    +Great Graphics
    -Game is taking a while to pick up..
    ..-Meaning not enough options in combat yet.

    I was kind of surprised in the first dungeon. I thought the place was pretty large. It wasn't as massive as, say, Mass Effect, but not as empty either. Battles are fun so far, but there aren't enough moves, making them somewhat monotonous so far. I confess small agitation at not being able to choose my party members.

    My jaw literally dropped at the opening FMV, it was spectacular, but standard cut scenes are somewhat less impressive, with some odd rough edges and some slightly unimpressive animations. Still, very detailed for the most part, and very good.

    I like the voice acting, somewhat surprisingly, but the story so far hasn't done it for me. It feels to slow, but, it is a sixty hour game.

    The game's battles are incredibly fast, and can get pretty intense...Normal encounters are usually only moderately challenging, but bigger enemies and bosses can really open a can if you're not careful. The first real boss killed me like three times, each time taking about nine seconds. Ultimately beating the boss took a little over a minute, though it certainly seemed longer, due to the aforementioned intensity.

    Anyway...Verdict? So far so good. Stay tuned...
    Madness is a complete statement. Saying more would be pointless.
  • TranticeTrantice Member Full Members
    edited March 2010
    I'm about 8 hours into the game, and I just got asked to put in Disk 2. This is really weird if you ask me, because I still can't even choose my party members.

    The first disk of the game is kinda like...you run around like crazy, and you fight. In between you get a little back story. I hate that after 8 hours, I am still basically in the 'beginning' of the game. This is like the first half hour of most games...can't choose your party members, tons of random tutorials, don't really know where you are going or really why, who are the bad guys...this is RPG 101.

    I just don't get it. I know that eventually when you get to pulse, you get some open ended game play, but I've heard even that isn't that balanced (stupid kill x monsters y times, running crazy around different plains, bad level design). Then it is back to single linear game play until the end.

    Someone said it best on here, if you order cake and you get pizza, sure you are happy with pizza cause its good, but you wanted cake...it's semantics really. If they wanted to innovate this much with a game, then call it something else. I look forward to FF games because I know what kind of game play and story to expect.
  • BreganBregan New Member Full Members
    edited March 2010
    Hello,

    I've been lurking around here for a long time, and this new FF made want to register to discuss a bit about the story. wink.gif
    Finished it a few days ago. I've mostly enjoyed the ride (even if there's not much replay value) but some part of the plot are still nebulous for me.

    <span class="spoiler">Mostly everything about Gran Pulse, so far what i understood there was a war a 100 years ago with Ragnarok cracking the shell of Cocoon but not finishing the job because of some goddess or traitor?(it's in datalog with the poems i think).
    Since then Cocoon are scared of the Pulse menace, seems logical. But when your sent to Pulse there isn't a single human in sight. Also the only place with some trace of old life seems to be Oerba Vanille and Fang town? We don't even know what became of them. I'm guessing they all became Cie'th or Undying but it's a guess, the story doesn't explain it clearly if at all.
    If for some reasons some Fal'cie turned all the pulsians into Cie'th why did they do this?</span>

    That's some random tought i had after the end of the game. It left me perplexed although i enjoyed the end since it left me with the usual strange "sadness-nostalgia?" feeling i have each time i finish a rpg i liked.
  • ClixClix Former Listmaster Full Members
    edited March 2010
    <span class="spoiler">Titan, the fal'Cie ruler of Gran Pulse, is a Darwinist. Only the strongest should live. Sometime after the War of Transgression, the already shrinking human population of Gran Pulse finally died out. Vanille and Fang were away for 500 years; that's plenty of time for Oerba to die out once and for all. When and exactly how is unknown.</span>
  • Huckebein008LHuckebein008L New Member Full Members
    edited April 2010
    Yeah. This game takes some getting used to, but if you can learn to adapt and appreciate it for what it is, chances are you'll enjoy it on the whole. Not sayin' it's perfect, but it's not too shabby either. Of course, I can see how some folks would be put off by certain aspects. And I can also see those same people gnawing on their controllers in fits of blind frustration after getting their faces stomped by everything from PSICOM grunts to vicious feral creatures over and over again. But seriously, sometimes you just need to adapt, ya know? If you can't (or won't), then there's just no way you'll be any good at this game, which will naturally have an adverse affect on how much fun you end up having. Frustration and anger tend to mess with the fun factor.

    Ah well, can't really expect to please everyone. I mean, I lit my copy of FFXII on fire on general principles, so I'm not really one to talk when it comes to game rage or whatever the hell people call it.
    \"Sports.\"
  • KainchildKainchild Member Full Members
    edited April 2010
    Ok it's time for my review of this game....

    First off I would like to say the ending was WAY TO VAGUE! I mean maybe it was me but did I miss something? Where did all this stuff come from any way? <span class="spoiler">Was it suppose to be a tie in to the FF2 The after years arc? Is the maker and the creator one and the same??? Why was there a war in the first place?? What was that creepy orphan baby suppose to be and WTF did that have to do with anything?? </span>

    Second off as to the soundtrack, didn't like it, though, some of the songs were decent. I got to admit this is the first FF game in a while where I regretted buying the CD for it.

    Third off, as to the level up system, they made grinding EVEN MORE TEDIOUS!! Towards the end it takes forever just to get one of your stats up.

    Forth off, I don't like how they put some of the side quests AFTER you beat the game. The whole point IMO for the side quests were to make the leveling up for the end boss or any other boss much more easier and funner. Plus side quests should add to the story like in FF 12 (which now I know is one of my favorite of the FF series, especially after playing this train wreck of a game). Side quests shouldn't be generic like "oh this guy from this village needed to kill this enemy" and have such a generic format sound. If that's going to be the case, they should have not bothered even putting that little bit of information. They should have just said just go here and kill this.

    The only thing about this game I liked was the graphics and some of the designs even though the whole <span class="spoiler">Shiva thing creeped me out. It looked like some lesbian intercourse thing was going on when they merged.</span>



    Faustus: \"History is written by the winners, Kain!\"
  • SpideySpidey Member Full Members
    edited April 2010
    I disagree that high expectations ruin this game. I had no expectations. I was enjoying the first half of the game immensely. It's just that the game is too static. The world isn't developed. I don't care to save it. The characters started to get on my nerves. Dungeons became too long, and the battle system I initially enjoyed was getting repetitive (what wouldn't get repetitive doing 3 straight hours, breaking for a 5 minute cutscene then doing for 3 strait hours again?) the pacing and structure of this game killed it for me. All the elements were there, good setup, interesting characters, good battle system,. but the pacing and structure of the game just annoyed me to no end. It's like being in a relationship. Everything is so new and exciting, but if it doesn't switch it up, it can get old and you can start getting really annoyed with each other after time. That's basically what happened to me. The only FF game I've quit playing. I've beat each numbered FF (besides 11)
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited April 2010
    Quote: wrote:
    I disagree that high expectations ruin this game.

    Bad game design ruins this game ...
    Lusipurr.com: One man's monument to himself!
    9 out of 10 Dentists recomend UNDERBOOB!
  • AirikAirik Member Full Members
    edited April 2010
    As a dungeon crawler, I'd say the design is quite good. The problem is that most people weren't expecting a dungeon crawler.
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited April 2010
    I even see problems with it as a dungeon crawler because of all the long tunnels with little to branch out or explore. There's not even any good puzzles. If they wanted a pure fighter, they needed shorter dungeons and more fights. If they wanted a crawler, the dungeons needed to get more varied and interesting.

    I like the *idea*, I just don't always like the execution.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • AirikAirik Member Full Members
    edited April 2010
    I think of it as a more streamlined dungeon crawler. Many people don't like to play crawlers because they're tedious, long, and sometimes lack things like common save points. You could make some of these arguments for FFXIII, but at the same time it made the sub-genre a good deal more accessible to those who wouldn't typically play it. I find FFXIII a much easier game to get into and play for a short time than, say, SMT:SJ or The Dark Spire (though I do enjoy both - particularly the latter). I understand what you're saying, though.

    That said, I think if more dungeons were like say, Taijin's Tower, the overall experience would be much better.
  • SandySandy Final Fanatic Full Members
    edited April 2010
    <span class="spoiler">But when your sent to Pulse there isn't a single human in sight. Also the only place with some trace of old life seems to be Oerba Vanille and Fang town? We don't even know what became of them. I'm guessing they all became Cie'th or Undying but it's a guess, the story doesn't explain it clearly if at all.
    If for some reasons some Fal'cie turned all the pulsians into Cie'th why did they do this?</span>
    You obviously didn't look at the environment enough <span class="spoiler">- it's filled with ruins and machinery under all that vegetation. There's very modern multi-floor buildings in Yaschas Massif, a whole mining system in Mah'habbara Subterra, and names of ruined cities like Paddra and Haeri are given in the place names and Datalog. And it's totally obvious that all the people either died or became Cie'th - the crystal zombies are everywhere in Gran Pulse!</span>

    Heh, I expected to find more actual spoilers in this spoiler-topic, by the way. Nobody's even said Lightning's real name here - unlike in that one topic at the Updates forum that had nothing to do with FF XIII. XP
This discussion has been closed.