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Smoking/Anti-Smoking

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  • LordBrianLordBrian Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    Sigh. The original debate was not on banning or not banning smoking. There's no reason they ever would ban smoking, regardless of whether they should or not. The debate was whether to allow people to smoke in public areas or not.
  • TrueGamerTrueGamer Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"The part about the filters? Well, Camels use cotton, and last I heard, that was biodegradeable. Marbs use fiberglass, which I will admit, is not. But why are cigarette filters so disgusting? They're rarely bigger than a grown man's pinky finger after the last knuckle. And it's not like they get stuck in your food or anything, they're at your feet. Walk on them. You won't get cancer from it, I promise.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Any form of pollution is bad.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Eat red meat! Get drunk! Do drugs!
    And besides, we've all stepped in dog crap from time to time, but I don't hear anyone saying we should illegalize them, and I'd much rather walk on cigarette filters than dog crap.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Red meat does not harm another person as a result of someone else's use, alcohol creates drunk drivers, so it is bad, and drugs not only hurt people, but they fund terrorists as well (and nobody is going to make me budge on that belief. I didn't need American commercials to tell me that) . As for the dog crap, you must pick it up or be fined. So, in a sense, it is illegalized.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"And all this talk of illegalizing tobacco? Disgusting! Yeah, let's let the government take a way a few more of our rights so we can follow their image of what we should be like. As Bill Hicks said, "it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on freedom". And it is. Tobacco tastes bad, and it hurts your lungs, it smells, it kills people slowly, blah blah blah. But it makes you feel better when you smoke, and that's good enough for me. I don't mind putting random chemicals into my body at all. I like to drink beer, and I like to smoke pot. I'm only nineteen, so both of these things the government says I should not do. Well screw 'em. It's not their body, so it's none of their business.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I could come up with a fancy argument to that, but I will provide a simple observation instead: Mithrandir, you are selfish.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"As for my opinion on this subject, they shouldn't ban smoking. After all, the faster these smokers kill themselves, more room on the planet for me![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    That is not right. You should not wish for someone else's destruction.
  • The Big BangThe Big Bang Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"That is your opinion. What if I were to say "Non-smokers are idiots, they're not cool because they don't smoke"


    Then I would say you are a jock.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    How on earth would that make me a "jock"?
    When I think of the "stereotypical jock", defending smokers does not come to mind.
  • MonCapitan2002MonCapitan2002 Avatar Captured Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mithrandir @ Mar. 06 2003,03:27)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"And all this talk of illegalizing tobacco? ?Disgusting! ?Yeah, let's let the government take a way a few more of our rights so we can follow their image of what we should be like. ?As Bill Hicks said, "it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on freedom". ?And it is. ?Tobacco tastes bad, and it hurts your lungs, it smells, it kills people slowly, blah blah blah. ?But it makes you feel better when you smoke, and that's good enough for me. ?I don't mind putting random chemicals into my body at all. ?I like to drink beer, and I like to smoke pot. ?I'm only nineteen, so both of these things the government says I should not do. ?Well screw 'em. ?It's not their body, so it's none of their business.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Sure, go on ahead. ?If you want to kill yourself go on ahead, I certainly wont stop you. ?Just don't expect me to have any sympathy for you when you are dying of lung cancer. ?If you want to kill yourself, go on ahead, just don't expect any sympathy from anyone when you are on your deathbed. ?Like you said, it's your body. ?You can do whatever you want with it. ?That doesn't give you the right to poison the bodies of others though.
    LordBilbanes.png
    Please help my city grow. Estharopolis - Population | Industry | Transportation | Security | Environment | Business
  • SinSin Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"When I think of the "stereotypical jock", defending smokers does not come to mind.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Yeah, that image is more of random, unjust hate, and ignorance. Their repitoire of insults is usually limited to words relating to things that come out of people, such as "piss" and "crap" and the word "fag".

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"What the hell do you care if people you've never met smoke or not? Why does everyone have follow this stupid health kick the country's on now? [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Actually, it's less of a "health kick" than a "not wanting to die" thing.
    You can do whatever you want to, as long as you leave other people alone. You can drink, smoke, and inject things all you want to. Just do it at home, and not near me.

    Go ahead and kill yourself, just don't take me out while you're doing it. I don't want to inhale second-hand smoke any more that I want to be hit by a stray bullet.
    Walken1.jpg
  • The Big BangThe Big Bang Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    You know what's ironic? A day after I created this topic I stopped smoking, and have been smoke free for the first time in years. Going from one end of the spectrum to another really makes light of things. I've read through this entire topic with both the "non-smoking and smoking" frames of mind. I think that public smoking should be banned. Although I do believe that everyone has a right to do whatever they want. Non-smokers and ex-smokers(like myself) should not be subjected to smoke if they do not want to. It's harder for me to resist if I'm somewhere around smoke. That would be my new .02
  • RDSRDS Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mithrandir @ Mar. 06 2003,00:59)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"What the hell do you care if people you've never met smoke or not? ?
    That part about the life raft seemed pretty random. ?If, for some reason, I were on a life raft with five other people, I would drown them all, and save the rations for myself. ?Unless a couple of them were hot women. ?They could stay.

    The part about the filters? ?Well, Camels use cotton, and last I heard, that was biodegradeable. ?Marbs use fiberglass, which I will admit, is not. ?But why are cigarette filters so disgusting? ?They're rarely bigger than a grown man's pinky finger after the last knuckle. ?And it's not like they get stuck in your food or anything, they're at your feet. ?Walk on them. ?You won't get cancer from it, I promise. ?

    And besides, we've all stepped in dog crap from time to time, but I don't hear anyone saying we should illegalize them, and I'd much rather walk on cigarette filters than dog crap.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Mithrandir, you are a juvenile selfish moron.

    - I care about people I've never met smoking because I have compassion. It's just kind of dissapointing seeing people being retarded. However if people insist on doing stupid things I don't care and they can go kill themselves somewhere else, just keep their smoking away from me and everyone else that doesn't want it. Please, join them.
    -The life raft thing was not random, it was a metaphor about peoples stupid decisions/actions affecting others.
    -No cancer from walking on smoke buts? good one, captain obvious!I don't care if there is no cancer from walking on Smoke buts, it's still disgusting and dirty.
    -The dog crap analogy was out of place. The ratio of cigarette buts to dog crap is probably ?a million to one.
    -Bill Hicks wasn't talking about smoking cigarettes when he said 'It's not a war on drugs it's a war on freedom'

    Why are you defending smoking anyways? It's something that has no positive benefits to it.

    I have nothing against the use of pot and/or alcohol, as these things can actually produce some sort of high or different state of being, so they can potentially have a recreational use for some people. I don't smoke pot and I don't drink much, but I will defend pot smoking as some of my friends smoke it.

    However there is no positive recreational use for cigarettes. Any kind of high or whatever you could get from them would only be the cutting off of oxygen and getting dizzy if you smoked many a cigarettte at once or in a row. And if you're gonna do this you might as well sniff gasoline.

    People that smoke are taking their life and the lives of those around them for granted. ?

    The argument that people have the right to smoke if they so choose, doesnt make smoking any less stupid. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.



  • MithrandirMithrandir Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TrueGamer @ Mar. 06 2003,13:04)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Any form of pollution is bad.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    That's kind of a weak defense. Besides, what do you think street sweepers are for? It's not like it hurts anyone.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"alcohol creates drunk drivers, so it is bad[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    That's a nice way of looking at things. Alcohol is part of our society, something that, if used properly, can provide someone with a little euphoria, which is not a bad thing every now and then. Some people take it too far, and do bad things like hit people and drive drunk, sure. But just because something isn't 100% safe and harmless, that doesn't make it bad. Take some risks! You're not going to live forever, so why don't you have some fun while you're here?



    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"but they fund terrorists as well (and nobody is going to make me budge on that belief. I didn't need American commercials to tell me that)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    You actually buy that crap? You don't know anything about the weed trade (which is, by the way, the only drug I support on any kind of basis). Here, in the real world, where terrorists are, for the most part, just propaganda, when people buy pot, it goes to hippies who grow the stuff, as well as other, random people who fence the goods. Here in Oregon, drug money supports the poor people who don't want to be poor any longer, so they go outside the law.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I could come up with a fancy argument to that, but I will provide a simple observation instead: Mithrandir, you are selfish.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    A little, yeah. But why not? I'd rather be able to have the freedom to do whatever I like, and if that includes smoking, then so be it. I'm not as bad as I come off, though. I'm actually a nice guy, if you know me.
  • MonCapitan2002MonCapitan2002 Avatar Captured Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mithrander @ Mar. 07 2003,06:17)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"You actually buy that crap? ?You don't know anything about the weed trade (which is, by the way, the only drug I support on any kind of basis). ?Here, in the real world, where terrorists are, for the most part, just propaganda, when people buy pot, it goes to hippies who grow the stuff, as well as other, random people who fence the goods. ?Here in Oregon, drug money supports the poor people who don't want to be poor any longer, so they go outside the law. ?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    That's no justification for selling poison and you know it! ?Just because marijuana isn't as lethal as some other drugs doesn't make it innocuous. ?I'm poor and I don't go around selling drugs. ?That's nothing more that a flimsy excuse to alleviate guilt on the part of the perpetrator and I for one won't excuse such actions.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mithrander @ Mar. 07 2003,06:17)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"That's a nice way of looking at things. ?Alcohol is part of our society, something that, if used properly, can provide someone with a little euphoria, which is not a bad thing every now and then. ?Some people take it too far, and do bad things like hit people and drive drunk, sure. ?But just because something isn't 100% safe and harmless, that doesn't make it bad. ?Take some risks! ?You're not going to live forever, so why don't you have some fun while you're here?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I don't know about you but I don't need mind and body altering chemicals to have a good time. ?I am more than capable of doing that on my own power. ?To equate the use of drugs with "fun" is simply absurd. ?I see nothing fun about consuming substances harmful to my body. ?Many people have been able to have a good time without the aid of drugs or alcohol. ?To do so would only create a dependency on those very substances and I for one won't hurt myself in such a manner.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mithrander @ Mar. 07 2003,06:17)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Any form of pollution is bad.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>That's kind of a weak defense. ?Besides, what do you think street sweepers are for? ?It's not like it hurts anyone.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    It's still a disgusting sight to see. ?I can think of very few things that are more disgusting than cigarette butts all over the ground.



    LordBilbanes.png
    Please help my city grow. Estharopolis - Population | Industry | Transportation | Security | Environment | Business
  • LordBrianLordBrian Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"That's kind of a weak defense. Besides, what do you think street sweepers are for? It's not like it hurts anyone.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    If you like living in other people's discarded filth, you're welcome to do that in the privacy of your own home as well.
  • MithrandirMithrandir Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    Huh. Seems like I ruffeled some feathers a couple days ago by defending smoking. That dosn't surprise me too much. But I should clear a couple things up.

    First, I don't smoke cigarettes. I think I already said that somewhere, but since so many of you are acting like I'm going to 'kill myself and everyone around me', it seems worth repeating.

    "Just do it at home, and not near me."

    Well, considering I have no idea where you live, or even who you are, no probelem.

    "You can drink, smoke. . ."

    Thanks. I certainly will.

    ". . .and inject things all you want to."

    Hold on, there! I have never, nor will I ever, put a needle in my arm unless there was a purely medical reason for doing so! People who skin-pop to get high are pathetic, and I don't even choose to associate with these people, much less be one of those people. Your suggestion to the contrary is actually insulting to me.

    "Go ahead and kill yourself, just don't take me out while you're doing it."

    Damn. That spoils my plans. I was going to force you into a car, and drive us both off of a cliff. Seriously, stop acting like I'm suggesting we all get together and play a couple rounds of Russian Roulette. All of you.

    "Just don't expect me to have any sympathy for you when you are dying of lung cancer. "

    Actually, I agree with you there. (Although I'd really prefer if you all stopped assuming I'm a smoker, because I'm NOT.) I have no sympathy for people who get cancer from cigarettes. I have no sympathy for people who act all innocent, and claim they never thought there was going to be any damage from smoking.

    "Mithrandir, you are a juvenile selfish moron."

    Right. And resorting to name calling because someone has the gall to disagree with your philosphies on life is completely un-juvenille or moronic.

    "I care about people I've never met smoking because I have compassion. It's just kind of dissapointing seeing people being retarded. However if people insist on doing stupid things I don't care and they can go kill themselves somewhere else, just keep their smoking away from me and everyone else that doesn't want it. Please, join them."

    I can be compassionate, at times, but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit there and condemn everyone who smokes as 'being retarded'. To do so would defy the very spirit of compassion you were so quick to point out in yourself.

    "The life raft thing was not random, it was a metaphor about peoples stupid decisions/actions affecting others."

    Well, it was a pretty lame metaphor. Second hand smoke is a slow killer, and the only discomfort you get initially is a little sinus trouble and a bad smell. Someone passing you on the street smoking a cig will NOT GIVE YOU CANCER! Trust me on this, I've lived with smokers all my life, and I have actual damage from it! I almost had emphysema from second hand smoke.

    Why do I defend smoking, you asked? Because I beleive people should be able to do whatever they want. I agree that smoking should be banned in all public buildings and restaurants, but not all bars. If you're going to sit there and ruin your liver, don't whine because someone next to you is ruining your lungs. I also think that when outside, the smoke is just going to mix in with all the other crap in the atmosphere, and no one is going to really be any worse off for having someone smoking a cigarette across the street. There's enough wind and open air that it's not an issue. Unless you're a whiny little hypochondriac, like (seemingly) a bunch of you here on this board.

    "That's no justification for selling poison and you know it!"

    Actually, I know no such thing. I think that is a perfect excuse for supplying a demand for a certain product. Not a poison. Just because something contains carcinogens doesn't make it a poison.

    "Just because marijuana isn't as lethal as some other drugs doesn't make it innocuous.

    "As lethal"? Dude, pot isn't lethal at all. Unless you count getting gunned down by stupid gang members. You CAN NOT over dose on pot. It's just not possible. ODs occur when a drug leaves your system too fast for your body to know what happenned, putting it into a state of shock. THC stays in the fat cells of your body and leaves over the course of either a week or several months, depending on both your metabolism, and possibly the amount of body fat you have that got soaked up in THC. And as for it not being harmless? So what? Not everything has to be all sunshine and lollypops. Stuff will kill you. Get over it. All of you.

    "That's nothing more that a flimsy excuse to alleviate guilt on the part of the perpatrator"

    Flimsy in a court of law, perhaps, but strong enough for the purposes of posting on a message board. And I do hope you meant guilt on a legal level. I've never met a dealer who felt remorse about selling a little weed. Nothing to feel remorseful about.

    "I for one won't excuse such actions."

    Well, good thing for me I never asked you to excuse my personal life or my actions. Dissaprove of me all you want.

    "I don't know about you but I don't need mind and body altering chemicals to have a good time. "

    I don't need them, but they've always been good to me. I had fun tonight, but I haven't smoked pot since yesterday, or drank any beer since last week.

    "I see nothing fun about consuming substances harmful to my body."

    So, what, are you a vegan, and do you never eat anything with preservatives, bad chloresterol, or unnecessery fats or sugars? If you are, then that's cool for you, but if not, then I think you're a hypocrite.

    "I can think of very few things that are more disgusting than cigarette butts all over the ground. "

    Then why don't you IM me sometime? I can send you a link to a particularly rotten website full of pictures that make cigarette butts on the pavement look almost beautiful.

    "If you like living in other people's discarded filth, you're welcome to do that in the privacy of your own home as well."

    When did anyone say anything about living in the midst of discarded cigarette butts? All I said is walking through a couple butts is not as disgusting as you all seem to think.

    I'm expecting a lot of angry posts in response to this, but that's cool. I sort of like the fact that I'm the only one here you're all ganging up on. And you can all say it's because I'm a "juvenille moron" or whatever all you want, while I will be thinking that it's because you're all a bunch of prudish, puritanical wussies.

    BTW, I used quotation marks in this post rather than the quote button, because it was acting weird. I previewed the post, and everything I myself said ended up in the quote boxes, while everything I was quoting ended up outside of them. Oh well.
  • MithrandirMithrandir Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    Err, oops. I know I accidentally hit the "add Reply" button before I was done writing that post, but I also hit the Stop button on my browser. I thought that would have interupted that post, and stopped it from going up. Any of you nice mods know how to delete an accidental post? It doesn't seem like it would be difficult. Please delete the first one, the one that uses the quote box rather than quotation marks, if you can. Sorry for the confusion and the redundancy.
  • ArdeaArdea Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    There, all sorted out. smile.gif
    Heron Heron Heron
  • SinSin Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    Well, I didn't mean "you" as actually you personally. But more in a general sense, and the word "one" just sounds odd when overused.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I'm expecting a lot of angry posts in response to this, but that's cool. I sort of like the fact that I'm the only one here you're all ganging up on. And you can all say it's because I'm a "juvenille moron" or whatever all you want, while I will be thinking that it's because you're all a bunch of prudish, puritanical wussies.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I do believe I was being a "prudish, puritanical wussy" before you posted anything in this particular thread. Yep, mine was 5th in the thread, 47 posts before you came along. And I was the 2nd person you picked on, right after Rico. tounge.gif
    Walken1.jpg
  • RDSRDS Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    "Mithrandir, you are a juvenile selfish moron."

    Right. ?And resorting to name calling because someone has the gall to disagree with your philosphies on life is completely un-juvenille or moronic.
    I can be compassionate, at times, but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit there and condemn everyone who smokes as 'being retarded'. ?To do so would defy the very spirit of compassion you were so quick to point out in yourself."


    - I called you a juvenile selfish moron, because you displayed a very immature(juvenile) attitude when you say things like
    'I would drown them all, and save the rations for myself. ?Unless a couple of them were hot women. ?They could stay.'

    or 'Smoke hurts and kills. ?But sometimes it's worth it' that's a pretty moronic statement,

    then there's this gem here 'And, if it does, you deserve it, because you're not strong enough to survive some very low profile poison' So people deserve to die for something like that? That's a pretty selfish, inconsiderate and Juvenile attitude.

    I'm not name calling you because you disagree with my philosiphies, I'm saying exactly what kind of behavior you displayed.

    - When I said being retarded I didn't mean smokers are retarded, I meant the decision they made was, thus there behavior was retarded. I don't condemn smokers at all.


    'I'm expecting a lot of angry posts in response to this, but that's cool. ?I sort of like the fact that I'm the only one here you're all ganging up on. ?And you can all say it's because I'm a "juvenille moron" or whatever all you want, while I will be thinking that it's because you're all a bunch of prudish, puritanical wussies'

    Think what you want, but why would I get angry over an internet message board post? Seems pretty Trivial to me. And you said people should be able to do whatever they want. Does this mean you believe people should be able to murder others? Or other vile things. Also how does not liking smoking and thinking it's stupid make someone a wussy? Because someone's smart enough to not smoke and realize that it is stupid they are a wussy? This is why I called you juvenile. For broad statements such as these. Really, I would think it's more wussy to let the addiction take a hold over someone and have their willpower decimated. That's to say I would think that if I thought like you in all your falsely enlightened glory.

    edit: also upon looking over my posts, never once did I proclaim that smokers should not be allowed to smoke, I do think that not selling cigarettes could only be beneficial to the human race, but I don't think that people should not be allowed to smoke if they so choose to make that stupid decision. I just feel by making said decision, people are taking their lives and sometimes others for granted, and that is truly bad.



  • LordBrianLordBrian Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"When did anyone say anything about living in the midst of discarded cigarette butts? All I said is walking through a couple butts is not as disgusting as you all seem to think.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    If you're able to walk down a street and not be living, then you sir are a better person than I. This is less a point about smoking than it is about littering and pollution in general. There is no excuse outside of laziness for not throwing trash in a trashcan.
  • MithrandirMithrandir Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RDS @ Mar. 10 2003,16:54)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"- I called you a juvenile selfish moron, because you displayed a very immature(juvenile) attitude when you say things like
    'I would drown them all, and save the rations for myself. ?Unless a couple of them were hot women. ?They could stay.'[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    That was a joke. My sense of humor may be what you would consider immature, which, would, in turn give me an immature attitude, this is true. That's fine by me. And if you don't like it? Too frigging bad. Doesn't bother me at all.

    "Think what you want, but why would I get angry over an internet message board post? Seems pretty Trivial to me."

    I didn't mean angry per se. But this post is exactly what I meant, all the same. Not so much frothing in anger at me, but sitting there and talking down to me the way you're doing. I defend something you all disagree with, and get jumped on over it. I expected as much.

    "And you said people should be able to do whatever they want. Does this mean you believe people should be able to murder others? Or other vile things."

    Don't be an idiot. I should have known I would have to say "people should be able to do whatever they want, as long as other people aren't hurt". Argue that second hand smoke hurts all you want. I agree with you, but it's such a minor threat in small doses that you'd have to be a total whiner to go off on someone for smoking outdoors. (Which, is, by the way, the only place in public I think people should be allowed to smoke in. I agree with you on some levels, because I know how gross it is to suck down someone else's smoke.)

    "Also how does not liking smoking and thinking it's stupid make someone a wussy? Because someone's smart enough to not smoke and realize that it is stupid they are a wussy?"

    Because it's not such a big deal, and you all act like it's a damn bullet wound in the gut. People are going to get cancer, with or without cigarettes. Hell, the sun gives you cancer. You don't have to freak out about cigarette smoke, because it's not the black plague.

    "Really, I would think it's more wussy to let the addiction take a hold over someone and have their willpower decimated."

    Everyone has some vice. No one is perfect.

    "That's to say I would think that if I thought like you in all your falsely enlightened glory."

    "Falsely enlightened glory"? You have no idea how I think. Don't presume you know anything about me based on one opinion I have.

    "then there's this gem here 'And, if it does, you deserve it, because you're not strong enough to survive some very low profile poison' So people deserve to die for something like that? That's a pretty selfish, inconsiderate and Juvenile attitude."

    What I meant was that if a little cigarette smoke (and it was just a small portion I was talking about when I made that statement) kills someone, then they didn't have a very strong immune system, and if that one cigarette's worth of smoke doesn't kill them, then something will. Maybe some of the smog off of all those SUVs and trucks on the road.

    "And I was the 2nd person you picked on, right after Rico. "

    I wasn't picking on anyone. I was stating my personal opinions. If it seems like I'm picking on you guys, I'm sorry. With the possible exception of RDS, none of you are really setting out to be offensive, so I wouldn't pick on you.

    "If you're able to walk down a street and not be living, then you sir are a better person than I. This is less a point about smoking than it is about littering and pollution in general. "

    There's a big difference between walking down the street and stepping on a couple butts and living in discarded filth. If you want me to assume you're not talking about actually living in mounds of garbage, don't be so melodramatic.
  • LordBrianLordBrian Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    Where do you draw the line, then? So it should be commonly accepted that people can discard cigarette butts in the street, fine. Potato chip wrappers are pretty small, too, so they can also go there. While you're spitting the butts onto the ground, spit your gum there too -- it's no less unsanitary. Hell, I don't feel like finding a bathroom, so let's just urinate against the side of this building. Pretty soon it's less melodramatic and more real.
  • RDSRDS Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mithrandir @ Mar. 11 2003,00:24)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"


    1.I didn't mean angry per se. ?But this post is exactly what I meant, all the same. ?Not so much frothing in anger at me, but sitting there and talking down to me the way you're doing. ?I defend something you all disagree with, and get jumped on over it. ?I expected as much.

    2."Don't be an idiot. ?I should have known I would have to say "people should be able to do whatever they want, as long as other people aren't hurt". ?Argue that second hand smoke hurts all you want. ?I agree with you, but it's such a minor threat in small doses that you'd have to be a total whiner to go off on someone for smoking outdoors. ?(Which, is, by the way, the only place in public I think people should be allowed to smoke in. ?I agree with you on some levels, because I know how gross it is to suck down someone else's smoke.)


    3.Because it's not such a big deal, and you all act like it's a damn bullet wound in the gut. ?People are going to get cancer, with or without cigarettes. ?Hell, the sun gives you cancer. ?You don't have to freak out about cigarette smoke, because it's not the black plague. ?




    4."Falsely enlightened glory"? ?You have no idea how I think. ?Don't presume you know anything about me based on one opinion I have.


    5.What I meant was that if a little cigarette smoke (and it was just a small portion I was talking about when I made that statement) kills someone, then they didn't have a very strong immune system, and if that one cigarette's worth of smoke doesn't kill them, then something will. ?Maybe some of the smog off of all those SUVs and trucks on the road.

    6.I wasn't picking on anyone. ?I was stating my personal opinions. ?If it seems like I'm picking on you guys, I'm sorry. ?With the possible exception of RDS, none of you are really setting out to be offensive, so I wouldn't pick on you.

    "[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    'That was a joke. My sense of humor may be what you would consider immature, which, would, in turn give me an immature attitude, this is true. That's fine by me. And if you don't like it? Too frigging bad. Doesn't bother me at all.'

    Yeah, ok fine, it doesn't bother you. I don't care. Sheesh.



    Okay..

    1. I am neither angry OR talking down to you, you have proven with your newer posts that you aren't a total fool(and since you seem pretty sensitive please don't misconstrue that as me saying you HAD to prove yourself) Your earlier posts were rash and not very clear as to what some of your true meanings other than smoking not bad, people decide. Your earlier posts had an air of selfishness and immaturity to them, I certainly am(and was ) not saying that you are a complete and utter moron devoid of any respect which is what you seem to think I was trying to say to you. it's just that online unless someone fully explains what they are trying to say and how they feel, it can very easily be misinterpreted, there is no tone of voice, there is no body language, it's hard to get hints at what people's attitudes are really like.

    I do like how you seem to think you're some lone warrior fighting unsurmountable odds. It's just a message board discussion. chill out.

    2. ?yeah, you do have to say that. If you say something simple like 'people should be able to do whatever they want'
    Then yeah, you might sometimes have to clarify what you really meant,(like I should have said 'you are acting like a selfish juvenile moron) when I read posts I take them at face value, It's up to the poster to show me what they are trying to say. Also I don't remember bitching about people smoking outdoors, my problem with smoking has always been only that it's a stupid thing, I've even said in earlier posts that people can smoke if they want, I don't care, it's just dumb. That has been all that I've been saying in this thread. I never said anything about the minor implications of second hand smoke. I didn't bitch about that.

    3. I never made a big deal about it at all, just the stupidity of taking ones own life for granted.

    4.Ok, I just said that to kind of prove my point that you can't tell what someone is trying to say on a message board or how they are. Much like you talked about people deserving to die and people doing whatever they want, I didn't mean that, I just kind of said it to see if you also would think that someone can't ascertain what another is like from their posts on a message board. Sort of how you think I'm talking down to you.

    5. Ok, but you said something that obviously looked selfish.

    6. Well, whatever you can think I'm trying to be offensive to you, but well, that's not what I'm trying to do. Much like you're saying many of your posts were misinterpreted, you have misunderstood some of my posts. Whatever, Think what you want.



  • TrueGamerTrueGamer Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    I know it's been awhile for me, but I'd like to say a few things about comments that have been focused on me.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"You actually buy that crap? ?You don't know anything about the weed trade (which is, by the way, the only drug I support on any kind of basis). ?Here, in the real world, where terrorists are, for the most part, just propaganda, when people buy pot, it goes to hippies who grow the stuff, as well as other, random people who fence the goods.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I don't see what's so hard to believe. If it's not being done by terrorists, it's being done by gangs. If not gangs, than mobsters. If not mobsters...well, I won't go there, but none of the above possibilities are good. And terrorists DO ship drugs!

    Now, since I lost track of things a bit, I'm going to leave this thread, but I'll add a few final comments:

    -Any form of substance abuse is bad, especially those that don't provide any benefit whatsoever.
    -All forms of pollution are bad, and some forms of it are the result of lazy people.
    -Overall, I feel smoking should be banned.

    Well, that sums it up.

    Oh, and one more thing:

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"You know what's ironic? A day after I created this topic I stopped smoking, and have been smoke free for the first time in years. Going from one end of the spectrum to another really makes light of things. I've read through this entire topic with both the "non-smoking and smoking" frames of mind. I think that public smoking should be banned. ?Although I do believe that everyone has a right to do whatever they want. Non-smokers and ex-smokers(like myself) should not be subjected to smoke if they do not want to. It's harder for me to resist if I'm somewhere around smoke. That would be my new .02[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I'm glad to hear that. It's nice to know that I contributed to your decision in some way.



  • CastomelCastomel Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"any form of substance abuse is bad.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You forgot the mmmmkay, and this is a trite statement if ever I've seen one.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"All forms of pollution are bad, and some forms of it have to do with lazy people.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Congratulations, rocket genius. Would you like a Nobel prize for that one? This has nothing to do with anything, save the ridiculous cigarette butt argument. Yes, cigarette butts are gross. No, they don't litter the streets (at least, not around here) to the extent that you have to step on them, so why cry about it? Eventually they just mulch down into mush anyway, which is probably no more toxic than the various crap that oozes into the ground from car oils, other garbage and fertilizer. Heck, the cotton-based ones probably provide some sexy nutrients, which is a heck of a lot more than I can say for the crap you put on your lawn to make it shiny and green so your neighbours don't think less of you.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Overall, I feel smoking should be banned.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Yes, because banning stuff stops it. Just look at those millions of people that don't do drugs, and the billions of dollars that aren't wasted futilely trying to prevent it. Yeah, drugs kill, but if it wasn't drugs, to be brutally honest, it'd be guns, or other violence, or plain old boredom. Anyway, if you banned smoking, people would still smoke, and that would just ratchet up the "cool" factor even more. The best way to get kids to do something is to tell them not to, which is why I always laugh when I see anti-smoking ads (and I'm sure the cigarette companies are only too happy to produce these little missives of social conscience, since they get to dictate the content, which is no doubt perfectly geared to make kids want to smoke)

    Anyway, smoking is unhealthy, yes - but I have to agree with Mithrandir in that it's none of my damn business if others want to. Smoking is banned around here in most indoor locations anyway, so I have nothing to worry about. If someone wants to smoke outside, or even in a bar, well... All the more power to them. Detergent, I've noticed, tends to eliminate smoke reek quite nicely, and just what are you doing if you aren't going to wash that shirt? tounge.gif
    Whoa! Slow down there, tubby! You're not on the moon yet!
  • MithrandirMithrandir Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    "I don't see what's so hard to believe. If it's not being done by terrorists, it's being done by gangs. If not gangs, than mobsters. If not mobsters..."

    If not any of those, COMPLETELY NORMAL PEOPLE! Seriously, you seem like the type who has never bought a sack of green bud in his life, so don't assume you know anything about it. All you know is what the government has sold you. None of the dealers I've met were in "gangs" or any kind of "mob". Hell, a couple of them were working, middle class parents who needed some money to help out.

    "And terrorists DO ship drugs!"

    Mostly heroin. Just about everything else is easy enough to make that we don't need to import it. Here in Oregon, we grow our own weed. If you ever hear Humboldt County being mentioned, it's probably for their weed. Also, I live in what is known as a fairly large meth center in the Pacific Northwest. We call this town Methford. Which sucks. I hate meth, and I've known quite a few good people go too far on that crap.

    "Anyway, smoking is unhealthy, yes - but I have to agree with Mithrandir in that it's none of my damn business if others want to. "

    Wow. There actually is someone on this board who can think for their self, and not just regurgitate propaganda. I think I might cry. Someone is actually taking my side on this issue. Thanks.

    "Yes, cigarette butts are gross. No, they don't litter the streets (at least, not around here) to the extent that you have to step on them, so why cry about it? Eventually they just mulch down into mush anyway, which is probably no more toxic than the various crap that oozes into the ground from car oils, other garbage and fertilizer."

    Exactly. Very rarely do you see more than one or two here and there. I will admit, there have been times, when my friend Aaron emptied his ashtray in his car on the side of the road, when I thought that it was disgusting, but that's because his ashtray is huge, and he smokes a lot.

    "Overall, I feel smoking should be banned."

    You would. If tobacco is illegalized, it will just drain our economy even more. Look at marijuana. It's been illegal for quite some time now, but that hasn't stopped the people who really want it from getting it. I know from personal experience. Do we really need to spend more money enforcing a law that infringes on someone's freedom, and just puts Big Brother's big nose further into our business? You might, but I do not. I don't even like the amount of control I already let the government have over me.
  • MithrandirMithrandir Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    Actually, I'd like to apologize. It didn't occur to me that I was looking like such a rabid psycho, until now. This is all just opinion, either mine or yours, and I don't need to go all nuclear on you. RDS, I will admit, that at first, I was being sort of a jackass. My posts were not very well articulated, and it doesn't surprise me that I came off as sounding immature.

    So, if any of you who I sort of blew up on have not just given up on this thread, I'm sorry for acting like such an ass. I'm not going to promise it won't happen again, though, because chances are that it very well might. But I'll try to be more level headed.
  • The GeneralThe General Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mithrandir @ Mar. 14 2003,06:28)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Actually, I'd like to apologize. ?It didn't occur to me that I was looking like such a rabid psycho, until now. ?This is all just opinion, either mine or yours, and I don't need to go all nuclear on you. ?RDS, I will admit, that at first, I was being sort of a jackass. ?My posts were not very well articulated, and it doesn't surprise me that I came off as sounding immature.

    So, if any of you who I sort of blew up on have not just given up on this thread, I'm sorry for acting like such an ass. ?I'm not going to promise it won't happen again, though, because chances are that it very well might. ?But I'll try to be more level headed.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    *points to the Edit button....* sarcasm.gif
  • TrueGamerTrueGamer Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Actually, I'd like to apologize. It didn't occur to me that I was looking like such a rabid psycho, until now. This is all just opinion, either mine or yours, and I don't need to go all nuclear on you. RDS, I will admit, that at first, I was being sort of a jackass. My posts were not very well articulated, and it doesn't surprise me that I came off as sounding immature.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I'll accept your apology, but at least your arguments were valid and interesting. I feel I deserve an apology from Castomel considering his post was borderline flaming and almost completely incoherent. There might have been a decent argument in there somewhere, but he was too busy insulting me to make it more obvious.
  • SinSin Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Yes, because banning stuff stops it. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Well I for one can't remember that last time I had to suck on second-hand weed in a restaurant. So it worked enough for me. I'm not saying it should be totally illegal, just not allowed in public places.

    And Mithrandir, just answer these few questions for me please.
    1) Is smoking a good idea?
    2) Should smoking be allowed in all public buildings?
    3) Is smoking bad for you?

    Because as far as I can tell, we have agreed on almost everything on this topic. Just to different degrees.
    Walken1.jpg
  • RDSRDS Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Castomel @ Mar. 13 2003,19:39)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Yes, cigarette butts are gross. No, they don't litter the streets (at least, not around here) to the extent that you have to step on them, so why cry about it?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Ok, I would like to know where you get the idea that people are crying or getting even somewhat uppity about this. It was brought up as just another negative aspect of smoking. Sheesh, just because I or others said it's gross doesn't mean we think it's super evil and makes us all crazy mad.
  • PhatosePhatose Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    Does anyone have links to the actual DATA used in these studies that supposedly prove the dangers of ETS? Not interpreted results - those are all horribly skewed either by the smoking or anti-smoking lobbies. Just the hard core data? I'm finding it extraordinarily difficult to find the actual numbers.
  • MithrandirMithrandir Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sin @ Mar. 14 2003,13:16)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"And Mithrandir, just answer these few questions for me please.
    1) Is smoking a good idea?
    2) Should smoking be allowed in all public buildings?
    3) Is smoking bad for you?

    Because as far as I can tell, we have agreed on almost everything on this topic. Just to different degrees.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    1) Not really.
    2) I think that bars should allow smoking, because it's hypocritcal to damage your liver but whine about the damage being done to your lungs, but the rest of 'em should be smoke free. Although there should be a few that allow smoking, that cater to smokers.
    3) Man, practically everything is bad for you.

    Yeah, we agree on most of this stuff, but the difference between me and the rest of you is that I don't care that smoking is bad. I've lived with it my whole life, and it's pretty much part of the backgroud. Sometimes I don't even smell it anymore. Unless someone's smoking like two feet away from me and the smoke is going right in my face, I could care less. Yeah, I'll probably die before any of you, but those were years that will be taken off of the end of my life. I don't want to grow very old, anyway. If I make it to seventy, I'll be shocked.
  • LordBrianLordBrian Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"2) I think that bars should allow smoking, because it's hypocritcal to damage your liver but whine about the damage being done to your lungs, but the rest of 'em should be smoke free. Although there should be a few that allow smoking, that cater to smokers.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I agree it is somewhat hypocritical, but this sort of answer just proves you completely missed the point of the main argument here. Drinking a bottle of beer only hurts your liver; smoking a cigarette hurts both your lungs as well as everyone else's around you.
This discussion has been closed.