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Smoking/Anti-Smoking

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  • SinSin Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Yeah, I'll probably die before any of you, but those were years that will be taken off of the end of my life. I don't want to grow very old, anyway. If I make it to seventy, I'll be shocked.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    When I feel I have fully lived my life, and have no regrets, and feel that I have made something of myself, I want to go out in a blaze of glory, not sucking oxygen through a hole in my throat.
    And you may feel differently about that when you get to seventy. You may want more time, but you will have none left.
    Walken1.jpg
  • The AthenianThe Athenian Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    Well, well... ?I've avoided posting in this topic so far, due to various reasons such as:
    a) It's not exactly bubbling with intelligent dialogue
    b) I'm not an authority on the innerworkings of the terrorist drug trade, as some people seem to be
    c) Some folks seem to be absolutely impervious to logic (and totally ignorant of manners or common decency) when it comes to the topic of smoking

    But, as I skim over some of the posts that have been made, I have been inspired with a kind of sick, hopeless amusement. ?The following collection of quotes is an anthology of the comments that have created within me new heights of disgust and disappointment in humanity. ?I can't figure out whether I should say "congratulations" or just vomit here and now...

    Exhibit A
    The Big Bang started us off with the following nugget of wisdom:
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Late night hang-outs(i.e IHOP) should not be smoke free. I've sat at many of these 24 hour establishments drinking cofee,smoking and having some fo the best conversations I've ever had in my life.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Generator pointed out the obvious, which was the fact that "you could have these conversations without smoking." ?Then we were treated to Big Bang's clever retort:
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"This one is a little harder to explain. It somehow just heigtens the mood, maybe its one of those pseudo-intellectual things. I don't know I can't explain it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Pure genius!

    Exhibit B
    Geek_Squid treats us to this thoughtful quote:
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"as a smoker i find it offensive people telling me not to smoke, i am educated about the risks, i dont do it where i am not supposed to, dont get in peoples faces so i think i should be allowed to do what i damn well like.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Now, this does make sense, if you assume that human beings are given bodies so that they can abuse them in whatever way they see fit, but let's not go there. ?Instead, let's consider a common situation where I work: ?At break time, most folks are prone to sitting around the picnic table outside -- and many of them smoke. ?It is not illegal to smoke there, as they are outside. ?As a non-smoker, my break-time options are now limited to:
    1. Stay inside on a beautiful sunny day and be bitter.
    2. Go outside, but rudely avoid my co-workers.
    3. Sit with them, and breathe in their filth, which is very unconfortable even if you ignore the health risks.
    Thankyou, smokers of the world, for your undying devotion to your noble cause!

    Exhibit C
    CactusJack, a champion of science, provides us with the latest medical breakthrough:
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Second hand smoke is pure media hype.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    It's smoke. ?It's bad for your lungs. ?What is there to hype?
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Maybe if you live with someone for several decades who smokes inside the house then you may be in danger. Walking past people who are smoking every now and then isn't going to do anything.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Oh, I'm convinced! ?I love smoking! ?Everyone should do it! ?...But, all sarcasm aside (for now), I think the average person's contact with smokers is significantly more than "walking past people who are smoking every now and then."
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"If you're scared of second hand smoke:
    a) don't marry a smoker
    b) don't stand next to someone who is smoking and breathe ? heavily for hours at a time[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You're making this way too easy, CactusJack.
    Maybe -- just maybe -- I'll end up falling in love with someone who smokes? ?I know, I know... but then I wouldn't be following your advice of simply alienating myself from all smokers, right? ?Well, then everything is wrapped up in a neat little package, then, isn't it.
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"If someone wants to "murder" you I think they'll find a better way than smoking.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I really don't see how this is relevant, unless someone has made up some crazy conspiracy about smokers trying to assassinate people slowly, over a period of years. ?Also, you may notice that there are more efficient ways to kill someone than driving drunk, too. ?I guess that makes drunk driving okay!
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I just don't think people who do smoke should be ousted from our society like lepors.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    But... but... I'm confused! ?I thought us non-smokers weren't supposed to fraternize with smokers -- and especially not marry them, or even stand next to them. ?Poor Elewen tells us that "My friend's Mom has emphesema (sp?) from her Job. ?The office allowed smoking in it. ?and she didn't even sit near them." ?But, I guess Dr. Cactus' answer would be that it was the mom's fault in the first place, for working at a job that allowed smoking. ?She should have known better than to deal with those smoking hooligans!

    Exhibit D
    The Big Bang makes a triumphant return with this golden parable:
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I don't care who you are, when you start smoking you KNOW the risks. Let the smokers deal with that.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    ...because smokers are the only ones who have to deal with the consequences, right? ?And nons-smokers are invincible when it comes to second-hand smoke, right? ?And no non-smoker would ever mourn the loss of a smoker, right?

    Exhibit E
    Forget Christianity, from now on I'm a Mithrandirist:
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Sure, they can and in all likeliness, will kill people, but so what? ?Were you going to live forever?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury... my client may have killed Mr. Smith, but I ask you, so what? ?Was Mr. Smith going to live forever? ?I think not."
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I've had health probelems due to second hand smoke, to the point where I was in the hospital for two weeks, but I still think that people have a right to smoke. ?I don't care if I, or anyone else, dies from it. ?It's their right to kill themselves slowly, if that's what they want.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Um... it's their right to kill YOU, as well?
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"sitting in a room with someone for a short period of time while they smoke a cigarette is NOT going to kill you. ?And, if it does, you deserve it, because you're not strong enough to survive some very low profile poison. ?Both my parents smoked my entire life, and it took me fifteen friggin' years to develop any serious health probelems. ?So unless you're sitting with that person for fifteen years, don't worry about it. ?And loosen up.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    This is the exact quote that inspired this whole post in the first place. ?Kudos to you and your... um... "carefree" outlook on life. ?I love smoking!
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"What the hell do you care if people you've never met smoke or not?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Believe it or not, smokers are not mere fictional characters ripped from the pages of Greek myths. ?They do exist in real life. ?I actually know some!
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Tobacco tastes bad, and it hurts your lungs, it smells, it kills people slowly, blah blah blah. ?But it makes you feel better when you smoke, and that's good enough for me. ?I don't mind putting random chemicals into my body at all.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I'm beginning to suspect you are not taking this issue seriously anymore. ?Or perhaps you are starting to lose your mind, if you don't mind me saying.
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"If, for some reason, I were on a life raft with five other people, I would drown them all, and save the rations for myself. ?Unless a couple of them were hot women. ?They could stay.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Yeah, I'm sure those women would be dying to have sex with you after you drowned everyone else.

    Exhibit F
    Faustus Eisengrim is clearly a devout follower of Big Bang's philosophical views:
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"As for my opinion on this subject, they shouldn't ban smoking. After all, the faster these smokers kill themselves, more room on the planet for me![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I hope you enjoy your beautiful, corpse-ridden, smoked-up planet.

    This is getting very, very long. ?So, for now, let's take a break. ?I've made enough new enemies for one night, and I don't think anything can top Mithrandir's world-record streak of outrageous, pleasure-seeking drivel. ?Until next time, let's keep those pro-smoking arguments coming! ?They're sad AND funny at the same time!



  • LordBrianLordBrian Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    All right, Athenian. As much as I hate to admit it, you've earned a title with that post. PM me if you want one.
  • VargasVargas Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    laugh.gif ?That is some funny s**t, Athenian. ?You da man! laugh.gif
    You know, the one thing that really ticks me off is the government taking advantage of addicts. ?Tobacco, alcohol, ?and gambling all generate massive revenue through taxes. ?Before these new anti-smoking laws starting getting passed everywhere, I was starting to become seriously skeptical of the claims that the money from such taxes was used to fund anti-addictions programs. ?This is a step in the right direction, and has given me a measure of renewed faith in our ruling powers.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Why do people build what they know will be destroyed? ?Why do they cling to life when they know they can't live forever?
    ~ Kefka, FFVI[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Sure, (cigarettes) can and in all likeliness, will kill people, but so what? ?Were you going to live forever?
    ~ Mithrandir[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
  • The Big BangThe Big Bang Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I've made enough new enemies for one night[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Eh make fun of me all you'd like Althy. This is the internet, I won't take it personally. biggrin.gif
    Like I said before, after I made the topic I stopped smoking since then my point of view has changed. Now I have no retort for my posts earlier.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Generator pointed out the obvious, which was the fact that "you could have these conversations without smoking." [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    What can I say? It's true, you can.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"...because smokers are the only ones who have to deal with the consequences, right? And nons-smokers are invincible when it comes to second-hand smoke, right? And no non-smoker would ever mourn the loss of a smoker, right?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    We were talking about the decision to start smoking. When somebody makes the decision to start, that person doesn't stop and say "How will this affect other people?" I never said that non-smokers were invincible to the effects of second hand smoke.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE" As a non-smoker, my break-time options are now limited to:
    1. Stay inside on a beautiful sunny day and be bitter.
    2. Go outside, but rudely avoid my co-workers.
    3. Sit with them, and breathe in their filth, which is very unconfortable even if you ignore the health risks.
    Thankyou, smokers of the world, for your undying devotion to your noble cause!
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    We used to have the same situation where I work. Enough people complained to Human Resources and sure enough, the smoking section was contained to 3 planes of glass and a bench. That still doesn't stop the problem of segregation.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"You're making this way too easy, CactusJack.
    Maybe -- just maybe -- I'll end up falling in love with someone who smokes? I know, I know... but then I wouldn't be following your advice of simply alienating myself from all smokers, right? Well, then everything is wrapped up in a neat little package, then, isn't it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    If only it was that simple. Now that I'm an "ex-smoker" I don't like to be around it, but its inevitable. Smoke is everywhere. Hell, my fiancee smokes but, I'm not going to call the wedding off.
  • SinSin Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    Some great news for me, folks.
    Well all anti-smokers in the Edmonton and Parkland County areas...

    As of the first of April, it will be illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to possess tobacco products.
    As a result of this, smoking will now be banned from my school premesis. The rule is that if you can see the school, you can't smoke there. And that applies to everyone, not just the students.

    Yay! Now no more smoky hallways when I go to English!


    P.S.- Athenian... Whoa!



    Walken1.jpg
  • The AthenianThe Athenian Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"We were talking about the decision to start smoking. When somebody makes the decision to start, that person doesn't stop and say "How will this affect other people?" I never said that non-smokers were invincible to the effects of second hand smoke.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    But, you did say "I don't care who you are, when you start smoking you KNOW the risks. Let the smokers deal with that." I figured that it implied that smokers were the only ones who would have to deal with the consequences of their actions. They are not, as I'm sure you know. It is not just smokers who "deal with that".

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"P.S.- Athenian... Whoa! [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Perhaps I went a smidge too far that last time, hmm? confused.gif
  • SinSin Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    No Athy, that was in awe. As in "WOW! That was good!".
    Walken1.jpg
  • MonCapitan2002MonCapitan2002 Avatar Captured Full Members
    edited March 2003
    I agree with Sin, Athenian. ?Your post is one of the best posts in this thread. ?I agree with you 100 percent on all the points you made.
    LordBilbanes.png
    Please help my city grow. Estharopolis - Population | Industry | Transportation | Security | Environment | Business
  • MithrandirMithrandir Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sin @ Mar. 24 2003,18:32)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Some great news for me, folks.
    Well all anti-smokers in the Edmonton and Parkland County areas...

    As of the first of April, it will be illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to possess tobacco products.
    As a result of this, smoking will now be banned from my school premesis. The rule is that if you can see the school, you can't smoke there. And that applies to everyone, not just the students.

    Yay! Now no more smoky hallways when I go to English!


    P.S.- Athenian... Whoa![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I can't beleive this is new. It's been illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to smoke for some time where I live. Are you in high school, or college? I can't imagine a high school that would have smoking in doors, but on the other hand, I would think not many colleges have a whole lot of under-18 students.
  • MithrandirMithrandir Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Vargas @ Mar. 24 2003,06:19)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Why do people build what they know will be destroyed? ?Why do they cling to life when they know they can't live forever?
    ~ Kefka, FFVI[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Sure, (cigarettes) can and in all likeliness, will kill people, but so what? ?Were you going to live forever?
    ~ Mithrandir[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I'm actually rather flattered that you would compare me to Kefka like that. Thank you. You have made my day.
  • VargasVargas Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    Not a problem, Mithrandir! ?Here I thought that I was the only one who thought that Kefka's thinking was on the level.
    Bwahaha!



  • SinSin Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I can't beleive this is new. It's been illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to smoke for some time where I live. Are you in high school, or college? I can't imagine a high school that would have smoking in doors, but on the other hand, I would think not many colleges have a whole lot of under-18 students.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Well, it is just starting now here, and I'm in High School.
    Technically, you can't smoke indoors, but they do smoke just outside the doorways. And as you can imagine, it tends to get around.
    Well, the odd person decides to smoke some weed every now and again in the bathroom too... But what's new?
    Walken1.jpg
  • RDSRDS Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LordBrian @ Mar. 24 2003,05:59)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"All right, Athenian. As much as I hate to admit it, you've earned a title with that post. PM me if you want one.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I told Athenian to say that, give me a title too.




    jk tounge.gif
  • The AthenianThe Athenian Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I told Athenian to say that, give me a title too.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Yes, all along I was RDS's puppet. I say and do as RDS commands. RDS is the greatest. RDS is a vision to behold. RDS is ultra-intelligent. RDS is... is... a big stinky-pants! Mwahahaha, I've broken free! Now the puppeteer has become the puppetee!
  • RDSRDS Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (The Athenian @ Mar. 25 2003,20:24)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I told Athenian to say that, give me a title too.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Yes, all along I was RDS's puppet. ?I say and do as RDS commands. ?RDS is the greatest. ?RDS is a vision to behold. ?RDS is ultra-intelligent. ?RDS is... is... a big stinky-pants! ?Mwahahaha, I've broken free! ?Now the puppeteer has become the puppetee![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I agree with the first five sentences.
  • fergus the lesserfergus the lesser Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    is it true that you'll lose 15 minutes of your life in smoking 2 sticks of cigarette?
  • SinSin Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    I hear it's about 7 mins per cigarette on average.
    Walken1.jpg
  • PhatosePhatose Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (fergus the lesser @ Mar. 28 2003,17:21)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"is it true that you'll lose 15 minutes of your life in smoking 2 sticks of cigarette?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Obvious it's not true. ?It's a highly creative use of stastics to come up with something that has no real meaning but sounds threatening.

    Put simple - I'm going to cast a spell on you that takes 2 hours off your life. ?Tommorow you get hit by a bus. ?Would it be even REMOTELY possibile for you to prove one way or another that my spell DIDN'T take two hours off your life? That if it hadn't been for my death curse, you would've been hit by a bus two hours later? They toss stuff like that around primarily because they know it's impossible to validate or invalidate, but sounds threating anyway.

    If you're going to be against smoking, try to keep it real. ?Be against it because it increases the risk that you'll get cancer, be against it cause it might give you emphysema. ?Be against it cause it's risky, and accept that risky does not neccessairly equal fatal. ?But don't believe nonsense 'statistics' like that some lobbyist came up with by using some creative math to scare people, that's just gullible.



  • The AthenianThe Athenian Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"is it true that you'll lose 15 minutes of your life in smoking 2 sticks of cigarette?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I doubt that's true at all, because everybody's body is different. ?Smoking's effects will vary depending on the individual's body. ?As Phatose sort of hinted at in his lesson on bus safety, statistics like these are impossible to prove -- after all, just how the heck do you think they could have gotten these stats? ?Did they find people at their moment of death and somehow reverse the effects of smoking, then measure how much longer they were able to live?
    Smoking can shorten your life, sure, but not by some exact amount per cigarette. There are also other factors besides smoking that can affect a person's health, and determining which things caused which problems is difficult.

    And... why do I now have an image in my head of various tobacco company execs applying for bus-driving licenses?



  • SinSin Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    That statistic is just an average.
    Years lived by smoker/packs smoked per day.
    It is different for everybody, but that is just a rough average, because smokers tend to die earlier than non-smokers due to the risks smoking involves.
    It may not be a hard fact, but it still has a little validity, if not too much.
    Walken1.jpg
  • PhatosePhatose Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    It's not a semi-valid 'fact', it's propaganda. Smoking increases risk of cancer is a fact. Cigarette smoke contains carcinogens is a fact. "A cigarette takes 5 minutes off your life" is nonsense designed to scare people.

    I'm not sure which side in this war is worse. The tobacco companies, who happily distort science and use propaganda of their own to decieve the public, or the anti-smoking lobbies who create little 'statistical' gems like that one to enhance the scare factor. Corporate scum on one side, chicken little on the other. It's no wonder there is so much anger involved - the main players on either side are set on completely demonizing the other side.

    Isn't there some middle ground to this? We'll take the smoking outside so the indoor regions where smoke sits around don't become offensive and slightly dangerous to the non-smokers, if you'll make sure its relatively easy for us to go outside to have our cigarettes?
  • fergus the lesserfergus the lesser Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Phatose @ Mar. 29 2003,14:10)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"If you're going to be against smoking, try to keep it real. ?Be against it because it increases the risk that you'll get cancer, be against it cause it might give you emphysema. ?Be against it cause it's risky, and accept that risky does not neccessairly equal fatal. ?But don't believe nonsense 'statistics' like that some lobbyist came up with by using some creative math to scare people, that's just gullible.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    i see, i understand now...

    but are you saying that i should not believe on statistics presented by people <credible or not>...

    what if the goverment release a statistical data about it confiming my previous argument that 15mins of life/2 sticks of cigarette, would you believe them?
  • PhatosePhatose Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    What statistical data, pray tell, do you imagine exists that could confirm such an innately ridiculous concept? If the government is going to come forth with some conclusive study that god has an hourglass for each of us, and every cigarette takes 5 minutes off it, then I'd would just LOVE to see how they managed to get that one.

    What I am saying is that you should look at the uninterpreted data from any study, and take with a large grain of salt any 'statistic' that seems like it would be impossible to prove. And always, ALWAYS look at the methods used to create any statistic when you interpret it's worth.

    There's a reason for that old saying "There are three types of lies - lies, damned lies and statistics." It's ridiculously easy to warp any set of data to meet a need if you want to. I'd imagine it should be quite simple to 'prove' that smokers die less often on average from car accidents then non-smokers. The why should be obvious - more of 'em die from lung cancer, so there are less of them around to die from car accidents. Statistics is a science practically tailor made to warp data into important sounding but meaningless sound bites.
  • VargasVargas Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    87% of statistics are made up on the spot.
  • The AthenianThe Athenian Member Full Members
    edited March 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"87% of statistics are made up on the spot.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Of course! 48% of all people know that!
  • fergus the lesserfergus the lesser Member Full Members
    edited April 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (The Athenian @ Mar. 31 2003,23:23)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"87% of statistics are made up on the spot.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Of course! ?48% of all people know that![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    are those statistical data reliable again?
  • VargasVargas Member Full Members
    edited April 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"are those statistical data reliable again?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    *Vargas rolls percentile dice*
    Hey! The Athenian made that up!
    Wait a second...
    *Vargas rolls percentile dice again*
    Hey! So did I!
  • fergus the lesserfergus the lesser Member Full Members
    edited April 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Vargas @ April 02 2003,12:39)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"*Vargas rolls percentile dice*
    Hey! ?The Athenian made that up!
    Wait a second...
    *Vargas rolls percentile dice again*
    Hey! ?So did I![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    *fergus throws up the dice and decide that
    Athenian and Vargas all made it up.. with a 100% probability with 5% level of significance..
  • TrueGamerTrueGamer Member Full Members
    edited April 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"*Vargas rolls percentile dice*
    Hey! ?The Athenian made that up!
    Wait a second...
    *Vargas rolls percentile dice again*
    Hey! ?So did I![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    You've got percentile dice? ?eh.gif

    Edit: We're playing a D & D game; inside joke.



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