If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Forum Rules. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Welcome to RPGamer's new forums running under Vanilla Forums! If you're run into any odd or strange issues after our software migration please see this thread for details

Mass Effect 3 Beta leaks onto Xbox Live

RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway?Full Members
edited November 2011 in Role Playing Games
...it's obviously not up anymore. But in the time that it WAS, all KINDS of crazy crap got out. Like, oh, the existence of three different "modes" for the singleplayer campaign intended to tailor the game towards combat, story, or actual RPG.

This article has a pretty decent overview, along with links to their sources. Also includes Bioware's response, which amounts to "We're trying to make a game for EVERYONE YAY!"

Oh, and the leaked screens are also showing that Origin is going to be tied into even the console release somehow.

...I'm also sure at least one person at Microsoft is probably filing for unemployment right now. Me, I'm getting those niggling doubts again that I got before I bought Dragon Age II. Uh oh.
"One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes

Comments

  • TGBarighmTGBarighm Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    I don't think the three modes thing is really a big deal. It sounds like story mode is just an easy mode, combat mode is an auto-level mode with fast dialogue, and RPG mode is the standard. I guess Bioware felt most gamers don't pay attention to the Options menu or don't see a connection between difficulty level and easing the flow of the story, or they're just too proud to select "Easy".

    The Origin thing is probably nothing. It's just the whole EA accounts thing. There may be an online pass, but that wouldn't be a surprise.


    For a game that just had its pants pulled down, it sure doesn't sound like much was revealed. Smells a bit like a stunt.
  • Adriaan den OudenAdriaan den Ouden Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground RPGamer Staff
    edited November 2011
    The three modes thing is frankly brilliant and will in all likelihood allow them to properly bridge the gap between ME1's full-out RPG goodness and ME2's just-beyond-the-action-genre intensity.

    But of course there will be tons of whining from tons of people who haven't even played the game for no real reason at all.
    Oh, and the leaked screens are also showing that Origin is going to be tied into even the console release somehow.

    Probably has to do with registration. EA's consolidated all their stuff into Origin, so if you're redeeming the preorder/Day 1 goodies that will inevitably come with the game, you'll have to do that through EA's website which requires an Origin account to tie it to. Same thing happened with DA2 codes. Not a big surprise at all.
    Maybe I'll log out and check my e-mail or something...
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    It sounds like a bit of a mess, but hopefully the three modes thing allows for deeper RPG mechanics than we got with ME2’s RPGlite system.

    At any rate, I'll not be buying it due to Origin.
    Lusipurr.com: One man's monument to himself!
    9 out of 10 Dentists recomend UNDERBOOB!
  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Stuff like this makes me smile because conventional wisdom says consoles are more secure than the PC.

    3 mode single player sounds intriguing. Honestly surprised they haven't talked about that before. Sounds kinda like what they tried to do with DA2's difficulties?

    The origin stuff is undoubtedly just EA Account / BioWare Social rebranding. Not much to worry about there.

    I'm not getting the same niggling doubts as DAII yet. But that's mostly because the pre-order campaign still hasn't ramped up to the level of noise that came with DAII. Nor have they gone off the deep end yet with pre-order incentives so far.
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • Adriaan den OudenAdriaan den Ouden Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground RPGamer Staff
    edited November 2011
    shoptroll wrote: »
    Stuff like this makes me smile because conventional wisdom says consoles are more secure than the PC.

    3 mode single player sounds intriguing. Honestly surprised they haven't talked about that before. Sounds kinda like what they tried to do with DA2's difficulties?

    The origin stuff is undoubtedly just EA Account / BioWare Social rebranding. Not much to worry about there.

    I'm not getting the same niggling doubts as DAII yet. But that's mostly because the pre-order campaign still hasn't ramped up to the level of noise that came with DAII. Nor have they gone off the deep end yet with pre-order incentives so far.

    It sounds a bit different than DA2's difficulties if you read the descriptions in the leaked screens. "Action Mode" is the only one I got a clear read of, and it's description basically makes it sound like it eliminates the conversation element of the game by giving Shepard pre-determined dialogue choices, keeping the narrative flowing quickly and making the game more like Uncharted. It's a good idea, because I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who aren't that into the whole conversation tree thing.

    I could see it being useful for New Game+ too, actually.
    Maybe I'll log out and check my e-mail or something...
  • QuinQuin ne cede malis RPGamer Staff
    edited November 2011
    shoptroll wrote: »
    The origin stuff is undoubtedly just EA Account / BioWare Social rebranding. Not much to worry about there.

    Origin is pretty crappy, though. It also wouldn't surprise me if the server browser/multiplayer interface is website driven.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    befriend (v.): to use mecha-class beam weaponry to inflict grievous bodily harm on a target in the process of proving the validity of your belief system.
  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited November 2011
    omegabyte wrote: »
    It sounds a bit different than DA2's difficulties if you read the descriptions in the leaked screens. "Action Mode" is the only one I got a clear read of, and it's description basically makes it sound like it eliminates the conversation element of the game by giving Shepard pre-determined dialogue choices, keeping the narrative flowing quickly and making the game more like Uncharted. It's a good idea, because I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who aren't that into the whole conversation tree thing.

    It doesn't sound exactly the same as DA2, but it sounds like an evolution of what they were trying to do there by making the same game configurable to different styles of play / taste. If I remember right they were trying to make the highest difficulty combat in DA2 be a lot more tactical as was the case in DA:O.
    Quin wrote: »
    Origin is pretty crappy, though. It also wouldn't surprise me if the server browser/multiplayer interface is website driven.

    Haven't used Origin yet (I'm leaning toward holding out for a Steam release a few months after this arrives since I still haven't started ME2), but I think Battlelog is going to strictly stay in the Battlefield department. Chances are this is just going to use a straight up peer-to-peer lobby system, so there shouldn't be a need for a server browser as there's likely no dedicated servers.
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited November 2011
    The three modes thing bothers me because I have a hard time believing they've really thought out three good gameplay modes that play like, well, three different kinds of games. It sounds like they're trying to appease the hardcore shooter crowd they've been courting without pissing off the RPG crowd they're trying not to scare off. I don't think any developer can actually make a game that has two modes so different it will successfully meet the needs of two dynamically different types of gamers. Maybe they'll prove me wrong. I WANT them to prove me wrong. I want to see this trilogy off properly so I can at least say whether or not I'd keep buying BioWare products. And I'm also really hoping Old Republic turns out well so I don't have to panic further about it.

    As for Origin, I haven't had any issues - my Sims addiction kind of forced it on me even before Battlefield came out. But it was interesting that they're trying to push it so hard as a Steam alternative that they're even trying to get it into their console releases.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • Adriaan den OudenAdriaan den Ouden Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground RPGamer Staff
    edited November 2011
    Rebochan wrote: »
    The three modes thing bothers me because I have a hard time believing they've really thought out three good gameplay modes that play like, well, three different kinds of games. It sounds like they're trying to appease the hardcore shooter crowd they've been courting without pissing off the RPG crowd they're trying not to scare off. I don't think any developer can actually make a game that has two modes so different it will successfully meet the needs of two dynamically different types of gamers. Maybe they'll prove me wrong. I WANT them to prove me wrong. I want to see this trilogy off properly so I can at least say whether or not I'd keep buying BioWare products. And I'm also really hoping Old Republic turns out well so I don't have to panic further about it.

    As for Origin, I haven't had any issues - my Sims addiction kind of forced it on me even before Battlefield came out. But it was interesting that they're trying to push it so hard as a Steam alternative that they're even trying to get it into their console releases.

    Well, the "Action Mode" has a pretty solid description of exactly what it entails, and by the sounds of it, it's exactly what action fans want. Instead of conversation trees, Shepard's responses are decided automatically, making it more like Uncharted or any other FPS/TPS single-player. Probably also included auto-leveling. By the sounds of it, the other modes cut things out of the game, they don't change them. For RPG fans, this shouldn't affect us whatsoever.
    Maybe I'll log out and check my e-mail or something...
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    I guess the proof will be in the eating. People are not wrong to feel somewhat concerned about this, but we have seen nothing to suggest that a calamity is impending - and it does sound like an approach which could be preferable to the dumbed down RPG mechanics of the second game.
    Lusipurr.com: One man's monument to himself!
    9 out of 10 Dentists recomend UNDERBOOB!
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Bioware how does normal combat difficulty make a game an RPG?

    Bioware that is so dumb.
  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited November 2011
    I had a big old post written up but I accidentally close the tab. So here's the condensed version:

    I think Omega has the right idea here. The game isn't going to change that much, but it'll probably put some stuff on auto-pilot or skip them if that's something you want the game to do. It sounds more like they're letting people tailor their experience instead of trying to dumb down various sections for everyone. Not a bad idea, but we'll see how it goes at launch (and since this was an internal beta which was leaked it could even be tossed out at the last minute).

    I don't think they're trying to force Origins on the consoles. Rebo seems to be confused about the terminology being used here. When Origin launched they decided to consolidate EA accounts, BioWare Social accounts, and other things into a single account which is called your Origin account. I expect they just want your Origin account for matchmaking and DLC incentives / authorization. Which isn't much different than DA:O where you logged in with your BioWare Social account to download your DLC.

    EDIT: On a side note, even if they were trying to open up a digital distribution channel for consoles it's already known that MS will go out of their way to prevent it from happening in their garden. EA had a spat with them back in the original XBox era over matchmaking and Valve can't put Steam on the 360 either. So that's a non-starter as I imagine the 360 is the preferred console of EA's customers.

    Lastly, I think people are just jumpy about BioWare after DAII was a let down for most people due to the rushed schedule (hopefully that doens't happen again). Kinda like how a bunch of us were doom n' gloom over Square-Enix following XIII / XIV, and things seem to be getting better with the upcoming Type-0, XIII-2 and XIV 2.0.

    The trick I'm finding in regards to EA stuff lately is just to ignore their marketing and PR. I really do think ME3 isn't going to be terrible and the impressions so far on TOR have been largely positive (if you handwave all the pre-release shenanigans). There's good talent at EA, just a shame you have to cut through a lot of corporate BS to get to it.

    I know it's weird for me to argue against a cynical position, but I really haven't heard much about ME3 that gives me a large amount of hesitation.
    Bioware how does normal combat difficulty make a game an RPG?

    It has nothing to do with being an RPG. Probably just some text that was on the screen outlining what parameters each of the options change.

    I expect this will just be renamed "Normal Mode". All three options set the game to normal difficulty, although I think ME1 had multiple combat difficulty levels, so I guess combat difficulty is set on a later screen. So you'd start off with a "Gameplay Style" where you choose Action, Story or RPG. Then you pick your combat difficulty (although I expect youd just skip this part if you pick Story mode).
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited November 2011
    omegabyte wrote: »
    Well, the "Action Mode" has a pretty solid description of exactly what it entails, and by the sounds of it, it's exactly what action fans want. Instead of conversation trees, Shepard's responses are decided automatically, making it more like Uncharted or any other FPS/TPS single-player. Probably also included auto-leveling. By the sounds of it, the other modes cut things out of the game, they don't change them. For RPG fans, this shouldn't affect us whatsoever.

    But here's the thing. If all it is a minor difficulty change, it's not a "mode" thing. However, if the idea is to literally tailor the game to not three different skill levels, but three completely dichotomous groups of people, I can't see this working well. At least one of those modes will suffer since I find it hard to believe all three modes will be well-balanced, or that there is one game that can be easily balanced to support essentially three different games. You've really got to choose one and build to that. ME2 got it right. I loved ME1, but let's face it, it had a hell of an identity crisis and they ended up with a title that often didn't work well mechanically as an RPG or a shooter. For ME2, they pushed the shooting side of the game much harder and while it did hurt the RPG aspects, it also made a stronger overall game because the entire game design supported a squad-based third-person shooter with exploration on the side.

    Hey, I could be wrong and again, I WANT to be wrong. Maybe they've found that magic way to appeal to the Call of Duty fans they keep saying they want AND make a role-playing experience that people turned off by ME2's shooter side will embrace. But I also say that at some point, you have to admit you need to pick WHAT game you're making. I'd point to Brutal Legend as another game that had genre schizophrenia and really suffered for it, just to stop picking on BioWare for a moment. I'd be sad if ME3 turned out that way.
    shoptroll wrote: »
    I had a big old post written up but I accidentally close the tab. So here's the condensed version:

    I think Omega has the right idea here. The game isn't going to change that much, but it'll probably put some stuff on auto-pilot or skip them if that's something you want the game to do. It sounds more like they're letting people tailor their experience instead of trying to dumb down various sections for everyone. Not a bad idea, but we'll see how it goes at launch (and since this was an internal beta which was leaked it could even be tossed out at the last minute).

    Sure, it's probably not even finalized yet. But it's still sitting there and being a niggling doubt.
    I don't think they're trying to force Origins on the consoles. Rebo seems to be confused about the terminology being used here. When Origin launched they decided to consolidate EA accounts, BioWare Social accounts, and other things into a single account which is called your Origin account. I expect they just want your Origin account for matchmaking and DLC incentives / authorization. Which isn't much different than DA:O where you logged in with your BioWare Social account to download your DLC.

    It's mainly confusing because of the Origin branding being both EA's registration system and their downloader.

    I'm mainly cynical because I pretty much blew off the marketing for DA:II ("Press A for Awesome!") and bought the game anyway. I was still overwhelmingly disappointed. So watching ME3 suddenly veer in that direction makes things...nerve-wracking.

    Hopefully Old Republic can calm the nerves a bit.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    @Rebo: I guess the one saving grace may be that even a corporation as bloody minded as EA must surely have recognised DA2 as the critical flop and PR disaster that it was ...

    If they were already heading in that direction with ME3, then it may have given them occasion to pause and reconsider their approach ... Or not, who can tell?
    Lusipurr.com: One man's monument to himself!
    9 out of 10 Dentists recomend UNDERBOOB!
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Apparently someone leaked the whole plot of the game on some Russian forum, which found its way to the now-deleted ME3 thread on Neogaf. Reading through some of this stuff makes me realize that man, I really do not give two ***** about the plot of Mass Effect.
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    A lot of people are upset at the state of ME3's script, and the fact that it does not acknowledge their choices or address the questions they wanted answered - however, I for one was never able to fully get into the world of Mass Effect, and the story has always felt like a great big holding pattern, like it was going nowhere ...
    Lusipurr.com: One man's monument to himself!
    9 out of 10 Dentists recomend UNDERBOOB!
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited November 2011
    I don't understand how, after Mass Effect 2, people could come into this one seriously thinking their choices were going to matter. After they hand-waved the whole council thing, the writing was on the wall. These games are shooters that give you limited control over how cutscenes play out, that's it.
  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited November 2011
    @Rebo: I guess the one saving grace may be that even a corporation as bloody minded as EA must surely have recognised DA2 as the critical flop and PR disaster that it was ...

    Given we're not hearing much about DAIII yet, I think they got the picture loud and clear. My guess is that there was some internal pressure to see if they could iterate on DA as fast as they did with ME and that team failed to pull it off. Live and learn.

    What's interesting to me is that even if ME3 fails to be "good BioWare" game, it's still likely going to be better than most of the other dreck that gets shipped to retail. DAII had the same problem, in the sense that it was underwhelming in terms of what people expected for the pedigree and even then it still did fairly well critically (and there's definitely a fair number of people who actually enjoyed it for what it was).
    If they were already heading in that direction with ME3, then it may have given them occasion to pause and reconsider their approach ... Or not, who can tell?

    Hard to say. I think they were originally pushing for a 2011 release and it got bumped back to March 2012? There's no real way for us to tell what's going on except from occasions like this when the curtain falls away. It does sound like the game isn't as far along as I expected at this point though which is a little surprising, but they're probably not in crunch mode yet or are busy with getting TOR ready.
    A lot of people are upset at the state of ME3's script, and the fact that it does not acknowledge their choices or address the questions they wanted answered - however, I for one was never able to fully get into the world of Mass Effect, and the story has always felt like a great big holding pattern, like it was going nowhere ...

    I think this is a problem in the sense that they were trying to build the world alongside Shephard's story, so there's less story in the traditional sense and more exposition on why things are the way they are in the given universe. That was the impression I got when I first looked in the Codex and saw entries on too many things I really didn't care much about. If you look at Star Wars, for example, there's very little world building aside from the minimum you need to understand for the story to work. But it tells a good yarn. On the other hand, you have Lord of the Rings which spends chapters and pages on a lot of filler / backstory / world-building and is basically a travelogue for a narrative. While The Hobbit didn't have nearly as much of that. Then you have The Simlarilion which is entirely backstory/world-building. I think.

    It's been a long time since I read Tolkien, so no one skewer me on this.

    I'd also argue that if you look at the The Matrix.... Most of the world building for that franchise comes around the middle point and it drags the movie down since it gets into this weird holding pattern.

    Rowling I think did a fairly good job of mixing the world-building and story, although her approach I think was to explain things as they came up instead of just giving pages of exposition on why things worked the way they did. It was a much more active and engaging attempt at world-building I think. It also helps that the books were set in contemporary England so you don't have to explain a lot of conventional things to the reader...

    I sometimes do think the industry really isn't that great at world-building, or at least trying to establish worlds for long arcs. I feel like there's an emphasis to front-load a lot of the world building instead of just making stuff up as the franchise plays out. More designers and writers need to take a better look at how stuff like this done on TV and other mediums.
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    ^This is often the pitfall of trilogies. You get a fair amount of story in the first half of the first act, and then things get padded out until the second half of the third act, when all conflicts need to be resolved.

    This is why it is very important to be thorough and have care when plotting out your full narrative arc before beginning your series - because when working from rough story notes it is all too easy to end up with a bookend narrative which contains nothing in the middle.
    Lusipurr.com: One man's monument to himself!
    9 out of 10 Dentists recomend UNDERBOOB!
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Strangely, I'm willing to give them at least a little benefit of the doubt on the leaked script because spoilers I've read from it are in direct contradiction to even recent public previews of the game. Furthermore, the script files that were mined are stored in a similar way to script files in ME2, and several people have noted that the same files in ME2 often contained completely different story events than the ones in the game.

    I am more than a bit annoyed that apparently the entire party of ME3 will be Sheperd, Liara, and either Kaiden or Ashley. Sigh. BioWare, if you're going to ***** about how Square Enix makes their RPGs, you stop lifting their weaker design choices wholesale. At least we haven't seen straight-line dungeons yet...
    I sometimes do think the industry really isn't that great at world-building, or at least trying to establish worlds for long arcs. I feel like there's an emphasis to front-load a lot of the world building instead of just making stuff up as the franchise plays out. More designers and writers need to take a better look at how stuff like this done on TV and other mediums.

    The real problem is that requires that the plot be set in stone before the game is even built and the entire process of game development is pretty much the antithesis to this. In television and film, you can't do either without writing the story first. In a game, you start building a game around a mechanic, a design philosophy, and a setting. Even if you have a tight plot planned out, development realities tend to force it to be rewritten again and again. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it does require a completely different approach to game design. And I'm not entirely sure that might make fun GAMES.

    Heck, just look at BioShock, which has been critically lauded for it's tight plot. Ken Levine literally made it up as he went along. They released some of the pitch and concept docs over the summer and its a fascinating glimpse into how scattershot the actual production of the story was. Even the idea of the Little Sisters came extremely late in production. The only common element in the entire production process is the game is set underwater and the main hook is the genetic superpowers.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • 7thCircle7thCircle Proofer of the Realm RPGamer Staff
    edited November 2011
    shoptroll wrote: »
    On the other hand, you have Lord of the Rings which spends chapters and pages on a lot of filler / backstory / world-building and is basically a travelogue for a narrative. While The Hobbit didn't have nearly as much of that. Then you have The Simlarilion which is entirely backstory/world-building. I think.

    It's been a long time since I read Tolkien, so no one skewer me on this.

    You said in two sentences what I recall using long monologues to explain to friends in high school when they asked me why I liked The Hobbit much more than LotR, and why I hated The Silmarillion and thought all copies of it should be burned.

    My favorite fantasy series is Dune. Incidentally, it's the only series I've read where the author not only planned the four books in advance, but wrote parts of the 4th novel before the 1st was complete. The first few novels are also all character-driven with no world-building (especially for me since I didn't realize there was a glossary in the back). My initial impression with Mass Effect 1 was that the whole series' story was planned out from the start, so it's been a big disappointment lately finding out that it's a typical write-it-as-we-develop-it video game situation. I thought BioWare pre-planned BG1, 2, and Throne of Bhaal, so it seemed like a reasonable expectation for Mass Effect 1-3. Mass Effect 2 really built up to a situation where things look grim for our hero, which is typical in the middle act, but without careful planning I think ME3 is going to have a Deus Ex Machina event that will be inconsistent with the lore in ME1 and 2, and the choices in those games might not affect much more than the types of armies helping Shepard at the endgame, kinda like how DAO's final battle was. There's nothing horrible about all that and I'm looking forward to the game; I just saw an opportunity here for the story to be more like a novel series and less like a bad sci-fi movie or typical video game series.

    I like this thread derail. It's much more interesting to me than reading more generic complaints about Origin.
    The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions.
  • FrozenbabylonFrozenbabylon POW! Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Rebochan wrote: »
    I am more than a bit annoyed that apparently the entire party of ME3 will be Sheperd, Liara, and either Kaiden or Ashley. Sigh. BioWare, if you're going to ***** about how Square Enix makes their RPGs, you stop lifting their weaker design choices wholesale. At least we haven't seen straight-line dungeons yet...
    I don't really get where you are getting this information from. There's already been conformation of at least Tali, Garrus
    Spoiler:
    provided that they survived ME2
    and James Vega (The new guy) have all been confirmed as full time members by Casey Hudson, along with Kaiden/Ashley and Liara... That's 5 permanent party members right there.

    Thane, Jack and Wrex have all been confirmed as at least temporary members. Same with Anderson at the very beginning.
  • TheDoomhammerTheDoomhammer Prod with the Prod Full Members
    edited November 2011
    So... apparently the entire ME3 script has been leaked now, not just the outline. Looks legit from what I've seen, seems like waaaay too much work to fake.

    What I've seen is abso-****ing-lutely hilarious so I don't want to spoil myself anymore.
  • JungyinJungyin Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    seems like waaaay too much work to fake
    Haven't seen it myself, but never underestimate the lengths some people will go to for a few moments of amusement.
Sign In or Register to comment.