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Editorial: Frustrations of a Casual FFXIV Player

noodlenoodle Kirby: El PresidenteRPGamer Staff
I love Final Fantasy XIV. I love the stories. However, casual players are being left in the dust on a difficult path trying to complete dungeons.

READ THE THING
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Comments

  • null001null001 Banned Users
    edited August 2016
    Sorry to hear about your lack of companionship in FFXIV. there's been a bit of an activity lull as of late, so even on some of the more active servers (and communities), it's become a bit hit & miss. The problem inherent to FFXIV is the developer making older content obsolete, whereas in FFXI, there's always SOME purpose to do things. In FFXIV, people do the new content, get bored, and either idle or unsubscribe while they wait for new content and story quests to come. It's a vicious cycle of hype and eventual boredom. I myself am going through the very same boredom. Such is the way of vertical progression. I missed all of the different activities available to me in FFXI.

    Have you and your friends tried the recent Palace of the Dead that they added a couple weeks ago? It's relatively different and unique compared to the standard activities ingame. If you have three other friends to bring, you can progress through it as all sorts of wacky job combinations (such as four tanks, four healers, or all DPS). I recommend giving it a try :)

    ~Nera Ephraim of Exodus server

    P.S. If you need a buddy to play with, I'm totally for making an alt character on another server. My main one is maxed out, so I don't have much to do besides craft items for people and play with my house.
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    Yeah, I know that feeling. Really feels like endgame is nowhere near comparable to how it was back in 2.3 and even 2.4. You hit endgame at the patch, do everything in less than a week and then...really nothing unless you're a hardcore grinder. It's sad, it wasn't this bad before, but I think SE is running out of ideas. SirBlueWizard hit the nail on the head with the cycle, it's something I'm falling in as well.

    And wait...Nera? YO! It's Hayk Farsight, I think I ran with you on the Nidhogg farm a week ago, alongside Signe.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • sevynwarrsevynwarr (Over There)Full Members
    What's the aversion to using the duty finder? Sure the people may not be your friends, but you'll get everything done pretty quickly and easily. Even on a bad day I rarely wait more than 15 mins to get into pretty much any dungeon as DPS, and much less as tank or healer. I understand wanting to do things with your friends when they're on, but why keep yourself so far behind by insisting that you do everything with them?
  • blurpoblurpo United StatesFull Members
    I started playing it some 10 days ago, and honestly, you're digging your own hole. I don't belong to any FC, when I need to do a dungeon I go to the duty finder and do the dungeon just fine. I'm about to reach lvl 45 (out of 50) in my main story quest and had no problems with the duty finder, like at all. So go ahead and click that button!
  • noodlenoodle Kirby: El Presidente RPGamer Staff
    except i've had a lot of bad experiences with duty finder, so i try to avoid it as much as possible. especially with some that require 24 people, no one really wants to wait that long to get that many people.

    nkkd01.jpg
  • SkyOdinSkyOdin Member Full Members
    Sorry to hear that you have been having a bad time in FFXIV. If you even want a party, you can always join us over on the Leviathan server, where we have had the at least semi-official RPGamer Free Company, Res Arcana, since launch. There are not a lot of us around, but we usually have four to six players on daily, and we have been around more or less constantly. We are always willing to help anyone run whatever dungeon they want if we are around.
  • ChickenGodChickenGod Overdosing Heavenly Bliss Moderators
    edited August 2016
    This is an interesting article, because while I completely understand every point thats been listed, my experience with people in FF14, especially lately, has been the complete opposite.

    The life cycle of patches, player availability, and lack of lower end dungeons being run is certainly a thing. This many years into FF14's lifespan, I can't imagine there is a huge population of people who are eager to do lower level dungeons, so finding new friends who are either willing to help or are actually at a similar level of progress naturally sounds like its tough. This even bleeds into a lot of other aspects of the game, such as finding a capable party to learn/farm an EX Primal because people like me get in there early, have our fill, then stay far far away unless a close friend asks for help. The aversion to duty finder is understandable as well, even if all goes well its just not as fun without a friend or two.

    From my perspective, the people on FF14 have actually been a blessing in my life. Especially right now, as I've been going through some stuff but they have been there for me when others haven't. My raid members and I often spend more time just talking on a voice program and playing cheap steam games than we do FF14 now that everyone is BiS. We're in the process of replacing a few members who left, and dealing with a lot of crazy interpersonal stuff, but lo and behold we found some really exciting prospects and are looking forward to crushing it when the next tier gets released. The raiding scene in general has taken me on a real journey meeting a LOT of people over the past few years, the overwhelming majority of which are some the nicest people I've ever played a video game with. Our FC has also been a good place with grounded people and no drama who are willing to help. Lord knows I dont spend much time with them, but everyone has been very friendly in here too.

  • KazumaLynxKazumaLynx Full Members
    I'd say the biggest issue you have is the duty finder. I'm not a super big fan of it either. The party finder is a bit better since you can make new friends on the server but it's not perfect either. The issue with the duty finder is it acts like a double bladed knife. While it helps players do content quicker it also has the same problems you touched on. Most don't want to run old content in it and if they do they leave because they don't want to help. Trust me I've ran the keeper of the lake dungeon as tank so many times even I complain a bit when I get it in the DF. I stay though and I'm willing to help explain it when players want help.

    The other issue with the DF is it kinda goes against what older MMOs like FFXI have. Players like to return and do content with friends they make. Not having some kind of content finder is a big part of that. Players have to be patient and put down roots. That can be both good and bad but I always found it to be better that way. Content finders result in players quickly finishing things but then the older content typicallly gets abandoned quickly. With 14 they sometimes find a way to make it relevant again with a weekly quest. That still ends up relying on the duty finder. The tough pill to swallow is that you kinda have to use it and live with the experience. I've had some good memorable experiences in it that kinda end on a sad note, usually I don't see the cool people I just played with again. On the other hand I've been part of awful groups as well

    It's also an effect of the elements in 14. It's typicallly all about the new weekly quest or capping tomes each week. The end game is a combination of primal fights and small instanced fights that are listed as raids but when compared to games like WoW they really aren't.

    It can be tough to keep up with that though for sure. I could go on but I'm kinda rambling lol. I'll finish up by saying our server sargatanas is weird that way. Lots of people do quit and come back. I've seen lots of friends move servers etc. I've heard other servers aren't like that but I stay because of the friends I made. Linkshells are better for creating a group for friends and people are way more loyal with them in 14 than a FC. Which is again mostly because how the FC system was designed but that's another topic. I'd suggest looking at a Linkshell and joining one of creating one and having active players who don't mind helping join and keep it going even when you aren't on.

    I know this is already too long of a post lol. My in game name is Kazuma Lynx. You might have seen me or played in a group with me. If so I hope It was okay haha. Anyways, I play casual but I'm usually online fairly often and feel free to contact me or friend me. I'm always happy to help if I'm online and time permits. I know it can be frustrating but don't give up!

    (Part of my post got lost or something but I guess that's what happens when you post it on your phone lol. Oh well this is good enough XD.)
  • arc_fluxarc_flux Full Members
    edited August 2016
    I'm in Zodiark, and while it does take time to get a party in DF because I'm a casual BLM, I get the chillest, most helpful parties even when I can't speak French/German. People do still run older dungeons for daily, so I do it to pay it forward. I know the fear of doing Duty Finder, but there's no crime in pulling out a wiki for the boss fights and explaining it's your first time. With the tomestone bonuses first timers get, grinders would be more than happy to help you through it.

    If you decide to drop by Zodiark, look for Escher Strange :) I don't have HW yet, but I wouldn't mind trying stuff out!
  • null001null001 Banned Users
    edited August 2016
    noodle wrote: »
    except i've had a lot of bad experiences with duty finder, so i try to avoid it as much as possible. especially with some that require 24 people, no one really wants to wait that long to get that many people.

    Sadly it's a double-edged sword. On one hand, you have the convenience of ready-made groups. On the other, you have certain "special personalities" that tend to throw their weight around, especially at more casual players. "Why aren't you using X?" "Use a proper rotation or I'm kicking you" etc etc. And yeah, the 24 person queue is the sticks unless you're doing the most recent ones.

    But yeah, if you ever find yourself coming back to FFXIV, I'd be willing to make an alt and help with what you need done. Be it tank, healer, or dps, I'd love to actually find some purpose in subscribing. I like helping people.
  • 7thCircle7thCircle Proofer of the Realm RPGamer Staff
    Something that occurred to me when I subbed in 3.0 was that even though I've played FF14 with the most, and widest variety of, gamers of any multiplayer game I've played, I don't know anyone who plays it exactly the same way I do. It's strange that way, and has made it a tricky game to talk about with others despite the large number of people who have played it with me.

    To that end, I enjoyed reading the editorial and seeing a unique perspective, even if it was a downer. While FF14's biggest strength may be the massive amount of content without a "right" way to play it, progressing the main story does require frequent use of Duty Finder with strangers. I can't personally relate -- I'm patient with newcomers, and when I am the newcomer I rarely make mistakes and I'm not apologizing for stating that :smile: -- but it's interesting reading a detailed explanation of how that's a negative.

    It might be easier said than done, and I'm crossing the line into telling someone how to enjoy FF14, but my personal experience is that veterans are very friendly and happy to help DF groups in 4 man content. It's the 8 man content, particularly 8 man content where 1 person making a big mistake can cause a wipe, where DF groups get testy if someone doesn't at least know the mechanics. A veteran doing a Trial Roulette expects to finish in 1 attempt, and heaven forbid you wipe the party when someone's running Alexander 100 times for HW relic pieces. So my take would be that even if you had bad, degrading, harrowing experiences in DF in the past, and even if you refuse to read a guide before attempting new content, give it another chance for dungeons at least.

    I say this as someone who ran at least 4 DF dungeons a day, every single day in June while grinding out my relic: veterans are patient and expect to run into newcomers and will help you out if you ask. That's what I saw, and I did see some ungodly awful people in DF and we didn't trash them.
    Except in Alexander runs. By patch 3.3, awful players in Alexander deserve to be traumatized until they go back to learning how to play the game.

    Or you could work on your Levi character more because the FC there is active and happy to help with old content.
    The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions.
  • XocoXoco Full Members
    I realy miss the game, but subscription game with my schedule (I'd be lucky to be able to play for 5 hrs a month) just isn't justified. That, and the latency makes it impossible to dodge anything.
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member RPGamer Staff
    Well part of the dodging thing is the game doesn't register you're outta an effect unless A. You stop moving once you're outta it, or b. if you keep running far away
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  • noodlenoodle Kirby: El Presidente RPGamer Staff
    SkyOdin wrote: »
    Sorry to hear that you have been having a bad time in FFXIV. If you even want a party, you can always join us over on the Leviathan server, where we have had the at least semi-official RPGamer Free Company, Res Arcana, since launch. There are not a lot of us around, but we usually have four to six players on daily, and we have been around more or less constantly. We are always willing to help anyone run whatever dungeon they want if we are around.

    Yeah, I've been on levi and with the RPGamer FC for a long time. :) I just like my legacy character on sargatanas. And there are some dungeons i don't really want to do again though.. but i do appreciate the invite. :)
    nkkd01.jpg
  • noodlenoodle Kirby: El Presidente RPGamer Staff
    ChickenGod wrote: »
    This is an interesting article, because while I completely understand every point thats been listed, my experience with people in FF14, especially lately, has been the complete opposite.

    The life cycle of patches, player availability, and lack of lower end dungeons being run is certainly a thing. This many years into FF14's lifespan, I can't imagine there is a huge population of people who are eager to do lower level dungeons, so finding new friends who are either willing to help or are actually at a similar level of progress naturally sounds like its tough. This even bleeds into a lot of other aspects of the game, such as finding a capable party to learn/farm an EX Primal because people like me get in there early, have our fill, then stay far far away unless a close friend asks for help. The aversion to duty finder is understandable as well, even if all goes well its just not as fun without a friend or two.

    From my perspective, the people on FF14 have actually been a blessing in my life. Especially right now, as I've been going through some stuff but they have been there for me when others haven't. My raid members and I often spend more time just talking on a voice program and playing cheap steam games than we do FF14 now that everyone is BiS. We're in the process of replacing a few members who left, and dealing with a lot of crazy interpersonal stuff, but lo and behold we found some really exciting prospects and are looking forward to crushing it when the next tier gets released. The raiding scene in general has taken me on a real journey meeting a LOT of people over the past few years, the overwhelming majority of which are some the nicest people I've ever played a video game with. Our FC has also been a good place with grounded people and no drama who are willing to help. Lord knows I dont spend much time with them, but everyone has been very friendly in here too.

    that's great that you've met such wonderful people. i say the same thing about the people i've met in FFXI. :)
    nkkd01.jpg
  • noodlenoodle Kirby: El Presidente RPGamer Staff
    noodle wrote: »
    except i've had a lot of bad experiences with duty finder, so i try to avoid it as much as possible. especially with some that require 24 people, no one really wants to wait that long to get that many people.

    Sadly it's a double-edged sword. On one hand, you have the convenience of ready-made groups. On the other, you have certain "special personalities" that tend to throw their weight around, especially at more casual players. "Why aren't you using X?" "Use a proper rotation or I'm kicking you" etc etc. And yeah, the 24 person queue is the sticks unless you're doing the most recent ones.

    But yeah, if you ever find yourself coming back to FFXIV, I'd be willing to make an alt and help with what you need done. Be it tank, healer, or dps, I'd love to actually find some purpose in subscribing. I like helping people.

    oh i'll definitely be back :) love the game too much. it's just frustrating sometimes. i do play white mage on sargatanas and a thm on leviathian. levi is where the RPGamer FC is at if you want to join us there. :)
    nkkd01.jpg
  • noodlenoodle Kirby: El Presidente RPGamer Staff
    7thCircle wrote: »
    Something that occurred to me when I subbed in 3.0 was that even though I've played FF14 with the most, and widest variety of, gamers of any multiplayer game I've played, I don't know anyone who plays it exactly the same way I do. It's strange that way, and has made it a tricky game to talk about with others despite the large number of people who have played it with me.

    To that end, I enjoyed reading the editorial and seeing a unique perspective, even if it was a downer. While FF14's biggest strength may be the massive amount of content without a "right" way to play it, progressing the main story does require frequent use of Duty Finder with strangers. I can't personally relate -- I'm patient with newcomers, and when I am the newcomer I rarely make mistakes and I'm not apologizing for stating that :smile: -- but it's interesting reading a detailed explanation of how that's a negative.

    It might be easier said than done, and I'm crossing the line into telling someone how to enjoy FF14, but my personal experience is that veterans are very friendly and happy to help DF groups in 4 man content. It's the 8 man content, particularly 8 man content where 1 person making a big mistake can cause a wipe, where DF groups get testy if someone doesn't at least know the mechanics. A veteran doing a Trial Roulette expects to finish in 1 attempt, and heaven forbid you wipe the party when someone's running Alexander 100 times for HW relic pieces. So my take would be that even if you had bad, degrading, harrowing experiences in DF in the past, and even if you refuse to read a guide before attempting new content, give it another chance for dungeons at least.

    I say this as someone who ran at least 4 DF dungeons a day, every single day in June while grinding out my relic: veterans are patient and expect to run into newcomers and will help you out if you ask. That's what I saw, and I did see some ungodly awful people in DF and we didn't trash them.
    Except in Alexander runs. By patch 3.3, awful players in Alexander deserve to be traumatized until they go back to learning how to play the game.

    Or you could work on your Levi character more because the FC there is active and happy to help with old content.

    i do watch youtube videos of the fights to see what i'm in for. the problem is the tanks who think they know but don't, or don't care and leave everyone behind.. terrible tanks make the white mage's job much harder. and sometimes i get yelled at when it's not even my fault.

    or when i say i haven't done it before, and no one cares. or they don't explain anything, or warn me about anything. that's annoying. maybe it's a trust issue.
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  • BudaiBudai Paladin Full Members
    edited August 2016
    swangtal wrote: »
    I realy miss the game, but subscription game with my schedule (I'd be lucky to be able to play for 5 hrs a month) just isn't justified. That, and the latency makes it impossible to dodge anything.

    Is that still an issue? Because I really had a problem with it. I was a tank and it just wasn't working, thought about leveling up a class where it would be less of an issue, but never did.
  • OrophinOrophin New Member Full Members
    The main problem I have with the game is as someone that doesn't do high-end raiding, the appeal of it only lasts 2-3 weeks at a time for me after a patch comes out. I mostly play the game for the story aspects, whether it's the main story or the side story content. Once you've done it once, dungeons just become a grind as a means for getting gear upgrades. I know this has been the formula for MMORPGs for over a decade now, so it's probably just a sign that maybe I'm just not cut out for the genre anymore.

    I'm in a fairly active FC with folks I played FFXI with and people met exclusively through FFXIV, however I don't feel the sense of community that was present in FFXI, simply because the game is too accessible. This is a good thing in the big picture because folks that played FFXI back in the day have grown older and probably don't have quite as much time to dedicate to a game anymore due to different life circumstances. I like that most regular dungeons and even the 24 man raids typically don't last more than 30-45 minutes. The draw back to this is that due to how accessible the game is (aka Duty Finder) it's hard to drum up interest in trying to have the FC do content together when you can just do it on a whim with random people.

    To the writer of the editorial: while Duty Finder can be a cesspool sometimes, as a player who doesn't have people to rely on to get through content with it's really the only means of doing so. It does accomplish the intended effect, just sometimes you have to endure obnoxious or low-skilled people.

    As someone that's been playing this game since the original beta back in 2010, I'll continue to support the game as long as the quality of the story content is up to my standards, but it saddens me the comradery that was present in MMOs before WoW became a household name has mostly vanished.
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member RPGamer Staff
    Well even in WoW, like you talk to old hat players like me who were around from Classic to Wrath, comradery was important in those days but after wrath it became less so.
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  • noodlenoodle Kirby: El Presidente RPGamer Staff
    Last two comments:

    exactly this. exactly. i too, came from FFXIV beta in 2010. I also came from playing FFXI since 2005. I still have a sub to FFXI and to FFXIV, and will continue doing so if they continue the good story content. my main focus in playing these two games has always been the main story and side quests. One of the side quests i love the most is hildebrand. most people find him annoying, i find him hilarious.

    but like both of you said, it's the loss of comradery that i think has hurt the game. people feel like they can be jerks, they don't care about the other people in their party, they just do what they do and leave. probably never to see the same people again. at least when you got your linkshell or FC to do something together, everyone was in on it to make sure everyone else knew what was going on, help them out, and generally be nice to each other. because well, you're going to see them in the LS or FC later on.
    nkkd01.jpg
  • null001null001 Banned Users
    noodle wrote: »
    oh i'll definitely be back :) love the game too much. it's just frustrating sometimes. i do play white mage on sargatanas and a thm on leviathian. levi is where the RPGamer FC is at if you want to join us there. :)

    I'll strongly consider it after my Monster Hunter binge ends :3 Thanks for your kind invite~

  • noodlenoodle Kirby: El Presidente RPGamer Staff
    we're under res arcana. :)
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  • 7thCircle7thCircle Proofer of the Realm RPGamer Staff
    edited August 2016
    noodle wrote: »
    at least when you got your linkshell or FC to do something together, everyone was in on it to make sure everyone else knew what was going on, help them out, and generally be nice to each other. because well, you're going to see them in the LS or FC later on.

    Maybe you should seriously consider transferring your legacy character to Leviathan. You have the FC you want on Levi, but you don't want to replay all the ARR content. You have the game progress you want on Sargatanas but not the FC.

    It's true that playing as a healer has its own special challenges in DF, but generally a tank doing crazy pulls and dying gets interpreted by a group of strangers as a trial and error process. Lately, I saw a lot less of this in old content than in new. When I ran level 60 content in DF I saw big pulls. For anything else it tended to be much more conservative than I was seeing in 2015 back when the old content was new. It goes back to my previous post: old content is full of newcomers and patient vets, not speed runners. You might get someone who's bad at the game and you need to adjust, but that's it, and I didn't see others being rude to bad players in old content.

    You should give DF another chance.
    The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions.
  • noodlenoodle Kirby: El Presidente RPGamer Staff
    i'm also scared of DF cause i don't want to be the one being yelled at. :/ i wish i could duplicate my character tbh. :/
    nkkd01.jpg
  • maryadaviesmaryadavies She Shoots For The Stars Somewhere east of Atlanta, GAModerators
    Noodle; I've had some good and bad things in DF. Usually folks are VERY understanding if you say, "I'm shakey on this" or "I am having troubles with this" or "I'm a newbie at this fight/dungeon"; I've only been yelled at once. Ever. Tho I did have one party kick me on Final Steps of Faith, so that prolly counts as the second..(I still haven't cleared it and I plan to ask friends to see if we can get me though that garbage. after that I never want to do it again)

    That saying, since I know you made a alt on Excal, feel free to logon so we can screw around! Just poke me on AIM first..
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  • noodlenoodle Kirby: El Presidente RPGamer Staff
    i've had times where i've said i haven't done it before, and i get no reply. :/
    nkkd01.jpg
  • player777player777 Full Members
    Someone still play this game?
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