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Secret of Mana Remake Arrives for PC, PS4, Vita

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  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    Ah man, now I know how everyone felt then they said FFIII/IV DSs graphics were a travesty... these aren't horrendous or anything but Secret of Mana had such nice pixel art! That and the music were arguable the best parts of the game.
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    Drav wrote: »
    Ah man, now I know how everyone felt then they said FFIII/IV DSs graphics were a travesty... these aren't horrendous or anything but Secret of Mana had such nice pixel art! That and the music were arguable the best parts of the game.

    I love the graphics in the remake, they feel like the original sprites pulled into 3D. Reminds me of the art style of Romancing SaGa on PS2. Also you can switch to the original soundtrack if you so choose.
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  • LordGolbezLordGolbez Member Full Members
    edited February 2018
    Yes. I didn't care for the DS version graphics. They looked somewhat like early playstation models, plus I didn't care for the chibi style. It looked much more ridiculous than the original sprites.

    Frankly these don't look nearly as bad. From what I've seen of this remake it looks pretty true to the original.
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  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    Wheels wrote: »
    I love the graphics in the remake

    I am SO glad you said this. We've been agreeing on way too much of late and I missed our Yin/Yang dynamic.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    Macstorm wrote: »
    Wheels wrote: »
    I love the graphics in the remake

    I am SO glad you said this. We've been agreeing on way too much of late and I missed our Yin/Yang dynamic.

    Should I go further into how the original wasn't the greatest looking SNES game and reused models from the dang gameboy game to compensate?

    I mean, don't get me wrong I absolutely LOVE everything about the original but man is it full of issues when you take off the nostalgia glasses.
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  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    I never cared about the original either, so no nostalgia for me. I dislike the graphics here all on their own merits or lack thereof. That said, graphics have never deterred me from trying a game so I will try this.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • ClixClix Former Listmaster Full Members
    edited February 2018
    Based on the screenshots that I have seen, I don't particularly care for or against the remake's artistic design. That said, I abhor the original. The designs are occasionally obtuse and just overall not very visually interesting. Similarly, I am at a complete lost at all of the claims about how great the OST is. Maybe this is my fault for playing the game off the Virtual console from 2014 to present (usually take about a year off between each play session because my friends and I have to force ourselves to touch it) on a 37 inch HDTV. Between the clunky gameplay, random difficulty curve, grindfest level up system, ugly sprites, forgettable soundtrack, and nothing plot, I have largely struggled to understand how this title entered the realm of classics. It has caused me over time to feel like all the praise for FFIV (a title that I swear is only held up as good due to nostalgia) is sensible by comparison. That said, I still have all intent on finishing the title, especially since my team has made it to the Grand Palace and thus am within the strike zone of actually finishing it.

    Completely random question about the remake: Do stairs work now?
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    Clix wrote: »
    Based on the screenshots that I have seen, I don't particularly care for or against the remake's artistic design. That said, I abhor the original. The designs are occasionally obtuse and just overall not very visually interesting. Similarly, I am at a complete lost at all of the claims about how great the OST is. Maybe this is my fault for playing the game off the Virtual console from 2014 to present (usually take about a year off between each play session because my friends and I have to force ourselves to touch it) on a 37 inch HDTV. Between the clunky gameplay, random difficulty curve, grindfest level up system, ugly sprites, forgettable soundtrack, and nothing plot, I have largely struggled to understand how this title entered the realm of classics. It has caused me over time to feel like all the praise for FFIV (a title that I swear is only held up as good due to nostalgia) is sensible by comparison. That said, I still have all intent on finishing the title, especially since my team has made it to the Grand Palace and thus am within the strike zone of actually finishing it.

    Completely random question about the remake: Do stairs work now?

    Yes, so much so that I forgot stairs were strange in the original

    note: I think the game looks better in action than in screenshots.
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  • BudaiBudai Paladin Full Members
    It has that same shaderless graphical style as ff4 ds and a lot of ds games has. It doesn’t look that bad in motion, but it’s still not the choice I would have gone for. Dark cloud 2 or dragon quest 8 is a much more appealing art style.
  • LordGolbezLordGolbez Member Full Members
    Personally, I would prefer not to go for cel shaded, although DQ8 does it pretty well.
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  • EvilorEvilor Totally Not the Secret Antagonist A secret alcove in the hero's baseFull Members
    I feel like a lot of the complaints are coming from people who are looking at the FF7 Remake and holding the SoM remake to the same standard.

    I haven't played it yet, but what I’ve seen from trailers and screenshots, it doesn’t look like the graphics take a particularly large amount of processing power. I'm not sure what the budget was or which team worked on this either, so I'm just going off of what I've seen and reviews I've read.
    Fufufufufu,
    -Evilor
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited March 2018
    Evilor wrote: »
    I feel like a lot of the complaints are coming from people who are looking at the FF7 Remake and holding the SoM remake to the same standard.

    I haven't played it yet, but what I’ve seen from trailers and screenshots, it doesn’t look like the graphics take a particularly large amount of processing power. I'm not sure what the budget was or which team worked on this either, so I'm just going off of what I've seen and reviews I've read.

    Given the similar style it probably didn't have much more of a budget than Adventures of Mana (and I image it was the same team).
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  • EvilorEvilor Totally Not the Secret Antagonist A secret alcove in the hero's baseFull Members
    Wheels wrote: »
    Given the similar style it probably didn't have much more of a budget than Adventures of Mana (and I image it was the same team).
    That's actually the first I've heard about the re-remake of Adventures! I'm both surprised and embarrassed. Koichi Ishii is credited as Director (on SoM remake), correct? Credits haven't been put on MobyGames yet. :(
    Fufufufufu,
    -Evilor
  • LordGolbezLordGolbez Member Full Members
    Evilor wrote: »
    I feel like a lot of the complaints are coming from people who are looking at the FF7 Remake and holding the SoM remake to the same standard.

    The FF7 remake fills me with dread, so if I'm going to compare a remake that looks pretty faithful to the original to one that looks like it's going to **** all over one of my favorite games, I think the SoM remake comes out nicely on the comparison.
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  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    Evilor wrote: »
    Wheels wrote: »
    Given the similar style it probably didn't have much more of a budget than Adventures of Mana (and I image it was the same team).
    That's actually the first I've heard about the re-remake of Adventures! I'm both surprised and embarrassed. Koichi Ishii is credited as Director (on SoM remake), correct? Credits haven't been put on MobyGames yet. :(

    Not sure of the staff but it was a wonderful remake that sticks closely to the gameboy original gameplay-wise.
    Evilor wrote: »
    I feel like a lot of the complaints are coming from people who are looking at the FF7 Remake and holding the SoM remake to the same standard.

    The FF7 remake fills me with dread, so if I'm going to compare a remake that looks pretty faithful to the original to one that looks like it's going to Moo all over one of my favorite games, I think the SoM remake comes out nicely on the comparison.

    I feel like they are likely going to crazy with it, just keep the original gameplay (with improvements) and make it look really good and people will eat it up.
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  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    Wheels wrote: »
    I feel like they are likely going to crazy with it, just keep the original gameplay (with improvements) and make it look really good and people will eat it up.
    No matter what they do, people will start complaining. Keep it close to the original? People will complain about the design flaws that were back in the PS1 version. Flesh it out and make it better? People will start complaining that it's not like the original. They can't win here, at all.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • LordGolbezLordGolbez Member Full Members
    There were no design flaws in the original. Only flaws were in translation and graphical.
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  • smacdsmacd Full Members
    edited March 2018
    deleted.
  • BudaiBudai Paladin Full Members
    edited March 2018
    smacd wrote: »

    Many of the people who love the game, haven't played it since they were 12. I have a feeling that playing it again when they are in their mid 30s, will help them realize it really wasn't that good in the first place. Square is playing a losing game here, and they were a lot better off not remaking it and keeping the nostalgia high.

    There probably are some, but there are others like me who replay ff7 often, and still are amazed by how good it is. The sheer amount of great artistic backgrounds, interesting summons and battle skills, characters, diverse locations, on and on. Amazing game. The atmosphere and feeling that game evokes makes most modern games just feel like products vs true art.
  • LordGolbezLordGolbez Member Full Members
    edited March 2018
    smacd wrote: »
    Many of the people who love the game, haven't played it since they were 12. I have a feeling that playing it again when they are in their mid 30s, will help them realize it really wasn't that good in the first place. Square is playing a losing game here, and they were a lot better off not remaking it and keeping the nostalgia high.

    First off, I was older than 12 when it was originally released. Secondly, I've played it many times since then. It wasn't my first FF but it remains my favorite and an easy contender for my GOTE (game of the ever). I don't remotely agree with the idea that it wasn't that good in the first place. The flaws are mostly minor and don't really mar the game as a whole.

    And how do you do a mix of change anything but the graphics and change only the graphics? Thise are two extremes that don't admit admixture. Furthermore it's axiomatic that if a group would complain if you change anything but the graphics, they'll complain if there's a mix because that's changing something besides the graphics. I don't know why the complainers about changing only graphics would complain about the mix because that means they didn't change only graphics or do those conplainers not want the graphics touched?

    Anyway, we don't have to be so hypothetical about it. They've already shown us enough of the remake to discern that the gameplay is more KH/FFXV style than the ATB of the original, which is not a change I'm particularly fond of. Changes to story are more hypothetial, but what we've seen from FF7 spinoffs makes the prospects both likely and unappealing.
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  • smacdsmacd Full Members
    edited March 2018
    deleted.
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    There were no design flaws in the original. Only flaws were in translation and graphical.
    Stripping all commands from characters so they're on the materia, meaning everybody is essentially cookie-cutter outside of Limit Breaks and weapons is one of the big ones.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • LordGolbezLordGolbez Member Full Members
    edited March 2018
    It's not my ideal system, but it's not a flaw. It's a highly customizable system that's very fun to play around with. Furthermore, I'd argue they're less cookie-cutter than FF6 where everyone can learn all the spells. Sure that can happen in FF7 too, but only if you put a ridiculous amount of effort into getting Master Materia. Otherwise, the characters in your party will have different abilities evem if you can choose who will have what. If you want to talk about the special abilities in FF6, they're not all that once you get magic and FF7 has limit breaks distinguishing characters. Really the only FFs that don't have some measure of that cookie cutter problem are FF4, FF9 and the original, I guess. Although even in the original you can choose 4 of the same class.
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  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    It's not my ideal system, but it's not a flaw. It's a highly customizable system that's very fun to play around with. Furthermore, I'd argue they're less cookie-cutter than FF6 where everyone can learn all the spells. Sure that can happen in FF7 too, but only if you put a ridiculous amount of effort into getting Master Materia. Otherwise, the characters in your party will have different abilities evem if you can choose who will have what. If you want to talk about the special abilities in FF6, they're not all that once you get magic and FF7 has limit breaks distinguishing characters. Really the only FFs that don't have some measure of that cookie cutter problem are FF4, FF9 and the original, I guess. Although even in the original you can choose 4 of the same class.
    FF6 had every character knowing their own unique commands, so it was anything other than cookie cutter. You had Edgar's Tools, Sabin's Blitz, Mog's Dance, Gao's Rage, Celes' Runic, etc.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • LordGolbezLordGolbez Member Full Members
    You're just being biased. Thats the only major difference between the characters, it's not much different from having unique limit breaks, and it pales in comparison to the uniformity of magic learning later on. Most character abilities are significantly less useful than casting the best spells available at amy given time. Painting FF7 as totally cookie-cutter while calling FF6 anything but is nothing but pure bias.
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  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    You're just being biased. Thats the only major difference between the characters, it's not much different from having unique limit breaks, and it pales in comparison to the uniformity of magic learning later on. Most character abilities are significantly less useful than casting the best spells available at amy given time. Painting FF7 as totally cookie-cutter while calling FF6 anything but is nothing but pure bias.
    Not really biased, as FF7 was my first FF. More on the lines of, I've replayed these games in recent years and started noticing flaws. At this point, I have a design flaw complaint about every FF game. Character abilities are incredibly more useful than magic, since character abilities can hit multiple times in a row, magic cannot. Plus it takes a long time to learn the magic, you'll always have the character abilities.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • LordGolbezLordGolbez Member Full Members
    edited March 2018
    What character abilities hit multiple times in a row? Only one I can think of is Cyan and that's not terribly useful because it takes too long to charge and still probably causes less damage than a magic attack.
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  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    What character abilities hit multiple times in a row? Only one I can think of is Cyan and that's not terribly useful because it takes too long to charge and still probably causes less damage than a magic attack.
    Oh derp, I was thinking of the amount of times they hit the enemy with the ability animation, not the actual numbers shown. You got me there, I'm apparently spacing out here. But I do believe the character abilities are better if you're not going out of your way to break the game, because they are definitely outclassed by magic if you're going for just gamebreaking maxed out characters. But magic outclasses everything in every RPG, as far as I recall (I can't think of any games where this is wrong).
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • LordGolbezLordGolbez Member Full Members
    Probably generally true, although there are plenty of RPGs where only certain characters can learn certain spells. IMO, FFIV is the best when it comes to character differentiation and it's the ideal growth system for me. Tying spells to levels keeps me invested in the experience grind. I wish more rpgs would follow that system instead of trying to put their own unique spin on things. Different systems can keep things interesting, but there's also something to be said for keeping it simple and going back to the basics.
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  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member Full Members
    So new patch hit and it's now easier to see who's ring you have open. not sure any other changes but that was a nice quality of life change as you get an image in the center of who the ring is now for.
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