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Nostalgic feelings!

ChromotriggerChromotrigger MemberFull Members
edited November 2003 in Role Playing Games
The RPGs i love the most is the ones a played in my childhood. The nostagic emotions inside means a lot to me, and thats why a very bad RPG could be one of my favourites. What is your opinion. Does the nostalgic feelings inside us affect our opinion of the game!
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Comments

  • Honda_InsightfulHonda_Insightful Banned Banned Users
    edited October 2003
    Of course. Like the mediocre FF7. It's not a bad RPG, but it's not a good RPG either. I think this article said it best:

    "When I compare the components of VII to the other games, I just don't think it stacks up. The music is good, but Uematsu has composed better. Save for Yuffie, the characters weren't as memorable as other FF denizens. Gameplay has been done better in other FF games. The story is uneven and not as "epic" as other FF tales. The one thing I don't get at all is how people rave about the "materia system," which is the game's prevalent method of character customization and combat. It really deemphasizes individual characters and abilities. One of my buddies said, "Materia makes magic and abilities too interchangeable, so the characters fade away and just become materia slots. So the whole point of characters becomes their limit breaks, which is sort of lame."



    Read more here: http://www.gamespy.com/articles/september03/25overrated/index20.shtml
  • Lin MayuLin Mayu Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    Well...yeah. ?That's why I still play FF Origins despite the addition of load time and remixed music that could've been done better. ?And that's why I loved FFIX despite the fact that the character development was kinda lame and the male lead had hips bigger than mine.



  • Volcom_stoneVolcom_stone Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    I keep saying to my friends how much playing rpgs when I was a little kid meant more to me because when youre a kid things get more emotional. I dont know if you get me but anyway. Playing Cosmo ( is that how you call it?) is more understable. What I wanted to say about " more emotional" is childhood memories is something important for alot of people.
    One other thing is that yu dont get bored , you can keep on playing on and on games that youve done several times or keep on playing boring games cuz you dont know better. THE one thing that go and get me inside is the.... music. When I hear music from a rpgs that i loved, I get goosebumps cuz it bring to me all the good times played ( im a whiny bi....)
  • Lord DycedargLord Dycedarg Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"
    "When I compare the components of VII to the other games, I just don't think it stacks up. The music is good, but Uematsu has composed better. Save for Yuffie, the characters weren't as memorable as other FF denizens. Gameplay has been done better in other FF games. The story is uneven and not as "epic" as other FF tales. The one thing I don't get at all is how people rave about the "materia system," which is the game's prevalent method of character customization and combat. It really deemphasizes individual characters and abilities. One of my buddies said, "Materia makes magic and abilities too interchangeable, so the characters fade away and just become materia slots. So the whole point of characters becomes their limit breaks, which is sort of lame."



    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I will be breif on this. FF7 was a great game, it was not the best rpg ever but it is pointless to sit around and complain about it seeing as it sold 9.3 million copies worldwide and will always be loved by people who actually understand the story and symbolism in the game. The characters where indeed memorable and lovable seeing as the ff7 fanfiction and fanart sections almost always outweigh any other ff games in major fanarchives.
  • Red SonicRed Sonic Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    Nostalgia is the only thing that has driven me on with one game in particular.

    I think everyone--including myself--knows how underwhelming a game SaGa Frontier was. But for me it was the RPG that got me into RPGs, so I fell in love with it because I didn't know better. And you know what? It works. To this day I have clocked in over 250+ hours on SaGa Frontier with at least five different groups for each of the seven scanrios.

    Now I don't know who can top that with any game, let alone SF by itself. But you're welcome to try.
  • The OutsiderThe Outsider Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    While nostalgia certainly does affect our view of games, I think that influence can be tempered by one's own realization that he or she is being affected by nostalgia. For example, I get into a nostalgic haze when playing Dragon Warrior II, but, from the perspective of objectivity, I can recognize that the game is quite awful by today's standard. Likewise for Final Fantasy VI, while I can objectively recognize that the esper magic system is probably less interesting than many of the other "systems" in the series, my playing experience of the game is so rooted in my psyche that I can't help but love it. My love of FFVI does not, however, render me blind to its flaws.

    And I completely disagree with Honda on FFVII, which I think is a marquis RPG by any standard, and probably one the best games ever made. Though the much bally-hooed "controversy" supposedly raged through the internet about whether the game was good, it seems to have since proven its staying power by being more or less universally recognized as a classic. Four years ago when I engaged in extended defenses of FFVIII on message boards, much of the commentary was of the mind, "oh, it's not as good as that amazing FFVII"; and positive opinion of the game has solidified since then, by my estimation.
  • CyllyaCyllya Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    Pointless emotional sentiment is probably why I like Tales of Phantasia better than Tales of Eternia....

    And why I abhor FF7....
  • AragornAragorn Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Sonic @ Oct. 07 2003,11:59)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Nostalgia is the only thing that has driven me on with one game in particular.

    I think everyone--including myself--knows how underwhelming a game SaGa Frontier was. ?But for me it was the RPG that got me into RPGs, so I fell in love with it because I didn't know better. ?And you know what? ?It works. ?To this day I have clocked in over 250+ hours on SaGa Frontier with at least five different groups for each of the seven scanrios.

    Now I don't know who can top that with any game, let alone SF by itself. ?But you're welcome to try.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I'd hafta say I've clocked probably over 300+ hours on Final Fantasy Tactics, of course not on one playthrough but the thing is so addicting I've went back many times and have ut over 100 hours on a single playthrough.

    Not bragging, just saying there are others like you out there who play a game to death. smile.gif

    Of course...FFT is actually WORTH playing that long...*snicker* ;)
  • GrowlanserGrowlanser Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    Oh man, do these feelings mean alot to me! I agree with Chromo...the RPGs I've played in my childhood are my favorites. When I think back...I can remember how great it felt to play such games! Priceless moments!

    Breath of Fire III was prolly my favorite of all time...and nothing can change that. As I try to play it once again, I see how it isn't as good as it was years ago, but its the memories that count.

    FF7 was nothing but hype. I mean, this game symobolically represented the new age of Role-Playing games and nothing more. It was only rated good because it was one of the first RPGs on the PS1...its not like they had any other game to compare standards to.
  • Honda_InsightfulHonda_Insightful Banned Banned Users
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lord Dycedarg @ Oct. 07 2003,11:30)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"FF7 sold 9.3 million copies worldwide[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    So did Vanilla Ice's "To the Extreme" (multi-multi-plantinum) but I wouldn't call it a masterpiece. Popularity does NOT equal greatness. (In other words, I reject your "FF7 is popular therefore it's great" argument.)
  • MetacodMetacod Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Growlanser @ Oct. 07 2003,18:48)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"It was only rated good because it was one of the first RPGs on the PS1...its not like they had any other game to compare standards to.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Are you implying that all people lack the ability to compare games on different consoles?
  • GrowlanserGrowlanser Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    Ah...Not at all...I just meant on that certain console.
  • generatorgenerator Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Popularity does NOT equal greatness.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    It equals greatness for the people who make it popular. ?A lot of people think it's great. ?It is popular because of that. ?To those people, it is greatness. ?Any simpler of a breakdown and my mind will go numb.
  • Honda_InsightfulHonda_Insightful Banned Banned Users
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (generator @ Oct. 08 2003,00:11)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Popularity does NOT equal greatness.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    It equals greatness for the people who make it popular. ?A lot of people think it's great. ?It is popular because of that. ?To those people, it is greatness. ?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Yeah, but a lot of those people had never played an RPG before. ?They had nothing to compare FF7 to. Now that they're more experienced (having played FF7-10 plus other RPGs) would they still think FF7 is great during a *second* playing?

    Probably not.

    I often hear people say, "I'm playing FF7 a second time, and it's not any fun anymore. ?I can now see all the flaws I did not see before." Kind of the same way that people once thought Vanilla Ice was great (and bought millions of his album), but now with more experience they realize his album is mediocre. ?Many people are discovering the same about FF7.



  • DeshDesh Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    Even with all its flaws, Final Fantasy VII wound up redefining the mainstream. ?From a historical point of view, it was a revolutionary game, and minor gripes and complaints six and a half years later aren't going to change that. ?Just as the original Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior titles can't stand up to more technologically advanced games, Final Fantasy VII will inevitably fall to the same fate. ?Thankfully, I still know how to appreciate these games, and I'll make sure I get more than my money's worth out of them instead of nitpicking to make myself look "superior."

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I often hear people say, "I'm playing FF7 a second time, and it's not any fun anymore. ?I can now see all the flaws I did not see before." ?Kind of the same way that people once thought Vanilla Ice was great (and bought millions of his album), but now with more experience they realize his album is mediocre. ?Many people are discovering the same about FF7.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I still have loads of fun with my copy of FFVII. ?I know plenty of people who feel the same way about it. ?How much weight does this carry? ?Just as much as your statement - none. ?Your argument is also weakened from preceding that anecdote (sp?) with this:

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Popularity does NOT equal greatness.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"It equals greatness for the people who make it popular. ?A lot of people think it's great. ?It is popular because of that. ?To those people, it is greatness. ?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Yeah, but a lot of those people had never played an RPG before. ?They had nothing to compare FF7 to. ?Now that they're more experienced (having played FF7-10 plus other RPGs) would they still think FF7 is great during a *second* playing?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    You [attempt to] refute the claim that popular opinion defines what "greatness" is, yet you try to downplay FFVII by telling us your version of the "popular opinion," which, I've found, is quite inaccurate and not credible.

    One last note...

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I can now see all the flaws I did not see before[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Show me a game that's ever been considered great, and I'll show you a project riddled with flaws. ?Hell, show me any game, and I'll show you the flaws. ?There are flaws in every FF title to date. ?There are major flaws in Xenogears and Xenosaga: Episode 1. ?All the Dragon Warriors/Quests, Phantasy Stars, Lufias, Sagas, and so on have flaws. ?Big friggen deal. ?You'll still find plenty of people who love these games, despite their flaws, and in the world of gaming, there's nothing wrong with that.



  • daschrierdaschrier Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    The first RPG I played, albeit briefly, was Dragon Warrior when I was like 7. I still love to play that game from time to time, although I've never beaten it. The first RPG I ever spent any time on was FF4, and I love it, but it isn't the best. I tried to play FF7 last year for the first time, and I couldn't stand it, don't know why, maybe I was blinded by all of the hype, and after hearing about the game so much I don't think there was anything new for me to discover I guess.
  • AragornAragorn Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    I personally think FF7 is a great game, but I've never thought it was the greatest ever or anything. The main reason this game gets picked on is that it was once hyped to be the greatest game ever made.
    The reason you dont see people complaining about say Beyond the Beyond is 'cause almost noone is going to disagree with them. smile.gif
  • mogforevermogforever Banned Banned Users
    edited October 2003
    yes of course.when you are a child your perceptions and way of thinking are very different than when you are an adult.the way you remember things may have an emotional attachment to it or you may remember it different than it really was depending on how well your memory banks work.emotions are the biggest part of it.kids attach to things different than adults.any "back in the day..." talk applies here...thats why i have always said that all these magazines and websites cannot truly define a game in a review for everyone because emotions cannot be defined!
  • The OutsiderThe Outsider Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Yeah, but a lot of those people had never played an RPG before. They had nothing to compare FF7 to. Now that they're more experienced (having played FF7-10 plus other RPGs) would they still think FF7 is great during a *second* playing?

    Probably not.
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Nice of you to assume responsibility to speak for these nameless people.

    I find arguments along the lines of "I know better what constitutes a good RPG because I've been playing RPGs longer" to be very tiresome. Every person's opinion is equally valid, whether he or she began with Final Fantasy I or Final Fantasy X. I personally began playing RPGs with Dragon Warrior II, and I still thought that FFVII was a superb game, bar none, and that did not change on my second or third playing of the game.
  • PhatosePhatose Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    You know, arguing about whether or not you call something great is ultimately meaningless. FF7 does not change if you call it great, nor does it change if you call it mediocre. Calling it a bad game won't change the fact that it was the landmark for RPGs entry into the mainstream. Whether that was due to the actual quality of the game, due to the marketing blitz which accompanied it (a first for rpgs), or simply because the game playing population had aged to a point where rpgs could now be success is debatable. But what does it matter, really? FF7 will always be attached to that change in the status of rpgs.


    As for nostalgia, no, it doesn't color our perceptions, per se. It is novelty that colors our perceptions, and nostalgia is really just remembered novelty.
  • Honda_InsightfulHonda_Insightful Banned Banned Users
    edited October 2003
    Good Point. ?FF7 did have an impact on gamers, especially the casual audience who plays more for FMVs than actual game.



    Well anyway, I have no nostalgia about FF7. ?I just played it for the first time about 9 months ago. ?I thought it sucked the big suck. (shrug) Sorry, but that's just how I felt. IMHO, it was the second worst FF made (after FF2).



    Also I don't think the personal attacks against me were necessary. ?GROW UP PEOPLE. ?Focus on the game, and the ideas, DON'T attack the person.



  • The OutsiderThe Outsider Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Also I don't think the personal attacks against me were necessary. GROW UP PEOPLE. Focus on the game, and the ideas, DON'T attack the person.
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I don't think that anyone attacked you personally, Honda. If you're refering to my remark about your assumption of responsibility for speaking for people, then I would only like to point out that my statement was not an attack on you personally, but on the theory that you expressed. Speculation on the likely opinions of unnamed subjects is quite presumptuous, after all.
  • generatorgenerator Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Well anyway, I have no nostalgia about FF7. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Me neither. I get nostalgic playing games like FF1 (especially on Origins, that was a trip) FF4, and rest of the cast of SNES RPGs. But, I still greatly enjoy FF7.
  • Lin MayuLin Mayu Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    I thought FF7 was great during a second, third, fourth playing...then again the reason that I beat FF1, FF4, and FF7 so many times (Barrett date notwithstanding) was because it took so long for the next game in the series to come out!

    But with older games--Chrono Trigger and earlier--there is a kind of magic feeling that the later games lack. ?It isn't anything wrong with the games either. ?It's the fact that by the time FF7 came out, I was in college. ?By that point, nothing could have been magical even if I wanted it to. ?My little brother will probably grow up with the same feelings towards FF7 as I have towards older games, though, because we started him on it when he was five years old and all he could handle was snowboarding at the Gold Saucer.



  • Lord DycedargLord Dycedarg Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    He he he. When you have played FinalFantasy VII as much as I have , you get nostalgia just looking at the damn box much less playing the game itself.
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE" someone:
    Blah blah blah, characters fade away and become materia slots and unique skills.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Hmm, what a compelling arugment. Lemme apply it to other games.

    Man, when you look at FF4 and you ignore the story aspect(like ye did for FF7), all the characters just become their data sheets and unique skills! See, this character currently has a 1 hit higher multiplier on attack. There's no other reason to want him there other than that!

    And don't get me started on Final fantasy 6. With all the customizability of characters, I don't see why you'd choose anything besides those who have the highest stat sheets of the moment and the most espers trained!

    <<

    Ridicule++;

    Dracos
  • DeshrillDeshrill Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    If you want to get started with the technical description of an RPG, you could claim that fights in RPG's are nothing but random number generators going up against each other! ;)

    Nostalgia certainly affects how I look at games... My first RPG was Dragon Warrior for the NES. I was in first grade at the time and I enjoyed it, although I probably wasn't sure how to play it at the time. When I play it now, it seems very tedious (Thou shalt gain a level of experience when thou gains 13429080 points of experience), but the music is still charming.
  • ArkArk Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    Nostalgia does play a big part of one's love for RPG's.
    Case in point: Final Fantasy 7

    It was indeed the first rpg I ever played.... it was what caused me to want a Playstation in the first place. I'll never forget the commercial tag-line "If you win, you save the world, if you lose, you can always hit.... the reset button"

    Things like that stick with you, and it makes you love the game despite the flaws that it may have. And as far as the Quote :</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Yeah, but a lot of those people had never played an RPG before. They had nothing to compare FF7 to. Now that they're more experienced (having played FF7-10 plus other RPGs) would they still think FF7 is great during a *second* playing? [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    ( pardon me if the quote thing doesn't work-- I don't normally use it )

    I've played FF7 a total of 3 times. Each time was as great as the first. I admit that some things could have been better- but its those flaws that seem to draw me toward it. Its not great depsite the flaws-- its great because of it. Similar to an ancient statue... it may be marred and such by the workings of time-- but still it stands beautifully.

    One can't deny the actual influence it had on the gaming world at the time it was published. For me, it attached me to the characters in a way that I have not yet been able to reaccomplish with any other game. Example-- yes, I cried when Aeries died ( although I was 12 at the time- played it in fifth grade ) Which brings me to the point of the afore quoted excerpt of teh article saying that the characters weren't as memorable as other FF denizens, except for Yuffie.

    Come on, people ( err, at least I ) don't give two squats about Yuffie. For me, she was the least used member, the most annoying, and overall only sub-par char (save for Cait-Sith) Then again, that is only my opinion. I can only back it up by showing the numerous amounts of Fan Arts of the characters of Cloud, Sephiroth, Tifa, and Aeris.

    Furthermore, revisiting my attachment to the game and the fun in its replay I present this to you:

    After beating FF7 for the first time, and second time I decided to check out those rumors that ran rampant throughout the internet during the '98-'99 years. I'm not talking about reviving Aeris.. I'm talkin about "Getting a Higher Summon than KotR" and "Search for the other Weapons besides Emerald, Ultimate, Ruby, Diamond"
    So-- I actually got around to mastering KotR (W/o use of Gameshark) and.. nothing happened. I also clocked 45 hours of game time looking for friggin Brown Weapon which was supposed to be a mountain that you fly into with the Highwind. The point is-- no other game has had that effect on me personally, or ( I would assume ) the entire gaming world.

    So, in summation and to tie everything together, Nostalgia does play a part in one's love for a game, but even Nostalgia can't argue with facts.
  • Honda_InsightfulHonda_Insightful Banned Banned Users
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ark @ Oct. 09 2003,09:53)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"So-- I actually got around to mastering KotR (W/o use of Gameshark) and.. nothing happened. I also clocked 45 hours of game time looking for friggin Brown Weapon which was supposed to be a mountain that you fly into with the Highwind. The point is-- no other game has had that effect on me personally, or ( I would assume ) the entire gaming world.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Hearing you speak reminds me of a game I used to play that really activated my imagination: MicroProse' Pirates!

    In that game you traveled back in time to around 1500, the Age of Exploration, and captained a ship while sailing around the Caribean. The goal of the game was to participate in ship-to-ship cannon battles, grow rich, and marry a beautiful young woman. You can also ambush the Gold Train and/or find maps and search for hidden treasure.

    Pirates! is basically a primitive form of action RPG, and I spent literally hundreds of hours playing it around 1988. I played the game more recently, and despite its primitive 16-bit graphics, it still manages to recapture the magic and be a FUN game to play.

    I would love to see this game updated for modern consoles.
  • PhatosePhatose Member Full Members
    edited October 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dracos @ Oct. 09 2003,09:14)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE" someone:
    Blah blah blah, characters fade away and become materia slots and unique skills.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Hmm, what a compelling arugment. ?Lemme apply it to other games.

    Man, when you look at FF4 and you ignore the story aspect(like ye did for FF7), all the characters just become their data sheets and unique skills! ?See, this character currently has a 1 hit higher multiplier on attack. ?There's no other reason to want him there other than that!

    And don't get me started on Final fantasy 6. ?With all the customizability of characters, I don't see why you'd choose anything besides those who have the highest stat sheets of the moment and the most espers trained!

    <<

    Ridicule++;

    Dracos[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Point 1: ?5 unique character sheets, each with a seperate set of skills, is far more varied then a materia slot. ?Lose a unique character, you've lost an entire skillset. Lost a walking materia slot, you lose nothing, since you can just plug the materia down on someone else.

    Point 2: If you know a way to make someone in FF6 learn someone else's unique skillset - like, perhaps you can tell me how to teach Gau how to use machines - then maybe your arguement holds some weight. ?But you can't do that, can you?

    The reality is that while losing a character in either of those games affects your gameplay strategies - since you do in fact lose skill - in FF7 you don't. ?Any skills lost can be instantly plunked down on some other chump. ?So, if say, a main character should die in FF6 or FF4, you've lost a whole bunch. ?If a main character should die in FF7 - net change, zero. ?Move a couple of materia, and they're right back to life, with just a different face.



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