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Reviews

David_HayterDavid_Hayter MemberFull Members
edited December 2003 in Site & Forum Support
Ussually, I've found the the reviews on this site are pretty accurate. Games are analyzed in a very objective, fair manner. I've come to rely on this site's reviews when I think about trying out a new RPG. However, the past two reviews I've seen on this site (FFXI and FFX-2) have some problems. Specifically, with their numerical rating. FFXI recieved a 6 overall, which is exactly what you would get if you average together all the individual scores. FFX-2, however recieved an 8. When you look at how the game scores in its individual catagories, this doesn't quite fit. Simply averaging together the individual scores, the game should be ranked as a 5. I suppose one could argue that a game's overall value is greater than the sum of its parts, but if that is the case, FFXI should still have been scored higher than FFX-2 as it provided much more play time and a higher level of difficulty. I think that it is possible that the reviewer's amoration for FFX, however misplaced, was transfered to FFX-2, despite it being an inferior game.

Comments

  • King Luca BlightKing Luca Blight Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    He also called his review "Cold Pizza" which I happen to love...maybe it means Ill love X-2.
  • David_HayterDavid_Hayter Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    you actually enjoy cold pizza? i alwyas took the trouble to heat it up in the microwave oven. this could lead to a bold, new era of pizza-sicles!
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    *blinks*

    By that logic DW7 should have a 10 because it's longer than almost any other game that has a 9.

    I can see complaining about the FFX-2 for very obvious problems with the clarity and delivery of the review, but the FFXI review?

    Dracos
  • generatorgenerator Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (David_Hayter @ Dec. 09 2003,13:55)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"you actually enjoy cold pizza? ?i alwyas took the trouble to heat it up in the microwave oven. ?this could lead to a bold, new era of pizza-sicles![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Since I can't tell if you're serious or not, I'll just say it anyways. ?"Cold Pizza" is a morning talk show of sorts on ESPN2. Cold pizza, on the other hand, is disgusting.



  • King Luca BlightKing Luca Blight Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Well when I said "Cold Pizza" I was just putting the title in quotations..but cold pizza is good!
  • David_HayterDavid_Hayter Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"By that logic DW7 should have a 10 because it's longer than almost any other game that has a 9.

    I can see complaining about the FFX-2 for very obvious problems with the clarity and delivery of the review, but the FFXI review?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I was just trying to make the point that an RPG is better when it's longer, in general. ?Of course there are games that are too short, and games that drag on for far too long. ?I think that if you have 2 games which are otherwise equal, and one is only 10 hours long while the other is 60 hours long, then the longer game is better becasue it offers more play time.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Since I can't tell if you're serious or not, I'll just say it anyways. ?"Cold Pizza" is a morning talk show of sorts on ESPN2. ?Cold pizza, on the other hand, is disgusting.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I don't pay attention to sports (except LSU football) and so I had no idea there was a show with such a name. ?As for my seriousness, I was just making sure the thread stayed light-hearted, since ?I'm not one to get upset or stressed out over an internet post.
  • RicoRico Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Q: Is the overall score supposed to be an average of the review breakdown scores?
    A: Absolutely not. Although they are a good starting point, many things aren't even taken into account in the review template (e.g. fun factor, etc.) that should also influence the final score.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Furthermore, you are comparing two reviews written by completely different people, and on completely different sides of the country at that. While some degree of objectivity is beneficial in a review, reviews of anything will be more useful if you read reviews of games you particularly like or dislike by the same reviewer, because any claim of total objectivity in a review is a bald-faced lie.
  • CainEJWCainEJW Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    I personally choose to average the scores together. However, as for the rest I think it's best for ASV or Amish to address, or possibly a regular reviewer.
  • SolonSolon Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    I never average the scores together when I submit my reviews to this site. However, If I somehow give out low scores in all sections, and then give the game a much higher overall score, I try to explain this in the review. That's what was missing in the FFX-2 review.

    Rico pretty much explained it all, but the reviews were written by two different persons, and the overall score isn't "supposed" to be an average of the breakdown.



    Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
  • David_HayterDavid_Hayter Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    I appreciate all the feedback. I've gotten a much better understanding of how to interpret the reviews now. Keep up the good work.
  • Wes_TyrantWes_Tyrant Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    I actually think that reviews should be based on 2 things.

    1: The person is capable of desplaying a unbiased portrait of the game. Alot of the time, people tend to let their love of the series over ride their realization that it is really a crappy game. You have people saying FF games are good because, they're FF...I mean really FF hasn't put out a good game since VII ?sarcasm.gif Tactics Advance made me want to cry it was so horible...and I liked Tactics for Playstation. These are the things you really need to watch out for.

    2: What I say...no...their really is no 2 just 1.

    Most reviews are pretty right on the money anyway.



  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wes_Tyrant @ Dec. 15 2003,15:40)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I actually think that reviews should be based on 2 things.

    1: The person is capable of desplaying a unbiased portrait of the game. Alot of the time, people tend to let their love of the series over ride their realization that it is really a crappy game. You have people saying FF games are good because, they're FF...I mean really FF hasn't put out a good game since VII ?sarcasm.gif Tactics Advance made me want to cry it was so horible...and I liked Tactics for Playstation. These are the things you really need to watch out for.

    2: What I say...no...their really is no 2 just 1.

    Most reviews are pretty right on the money anyway.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    While you do indeed have a point, keep in mind that a lot of people like the FF's after VII because they honestly enjoyed them, not because of bias.

    I happen to be one of them, and I could make a detailed list as to why if you desire.



    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • FiremystFiremyst Daddy Dragon II Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (King Luca Blight @ Dec. 09 2003,10:47)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"He also called his review "Cold Pizza" which I happen to love...maybe it means Ill love X-2.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Mmmm.. cold pizza. It's my favorite breakfast ;)
    Founder, RPGamer
    I love tweeting -- follow me @ http://www.twitter.com/mtidwell
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    An Unbiased review? What is this creature you ask for, Wes Tyrant? It sounds like a mythical unicorn. I've never seen one and...why would I want to? What good would a review stripped of opinion and experience be? Who'd want to read something that would be devoid of personality and life?

    Yes, some will let bias override good sense. But even that should be informative and easily depictable.

    Dracos
  • Wes_TyrantWes_Tyrant Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    I tend to disagree and i'll give you an example.

    I am a huge fan of the YS Game series, I mean mega huge...I think to date that it is one of the best, if not the best RPG's out there. However I have played 1-4, and I find 3 to be a god awful abuse of the title YS. But I can control the fact the I think it should get a 5, in the fact that some people might actually like the style of gameplay that it is. However, I liked the fighting style you see in 1,2,and 4 the best...I dont let my opinion of the game, outweigh the fun other people could have playing it.

    That is what an unbiased review is, I think it's worthy enough of a storyline to play, game mechanics were lacking, and it's pretty much just an ok Shadow of a true YS game...but I still liked it and I cant figure out why.
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Um, but that's obviously biased. "YOU" thought it was bad, but not bad enough to deserve real thrashing. A review being informative does not remove the bias. A review being uninformative does not place bias there.

    They are separate traits. While I fully believe you can make an uninformative review, I do not think you can make an informative non-biased review. If you use the words "excellent" "I liked" "I enjoyed" whatever, you are showing your bias in the review. If you are rating a game on how you think other people will enjoy it, you still are showing a bias. Unless you are simply stating facts, it's impossible to remove bias from editorial or review style writings. To wit: "Points of View". What would this be without... the points of view?

    Dracos
  • Wes_TyrantWes_Tyrant Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    but unlike other biased people, I tend to list pro's and cons, and that's as a review was pretty unbiased. You mention pro's and Con's that what we has gamers need to do, I said the story was great, but the gameplay was lacking.

    People who tend to review games, let a title clutter their judgement, thats what I mean by unbiased, look at it as if you play the title for the first time. I mean come on people FFVIII ?sarcasm.gif ?i'll give props to IX for being semi-fun, and having the most complete ending.



  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    'pretty unbiased'?

    But how are you determining pros and cons? Are they not determined by your own opinion of this being a 'good thing'?

    You need only glance around this board to find hundreds of examples of people disagreeing over a trait of a game being good or bad. I can go on for pages on how bad I think the story writing in FFVIII was, but you don't even have to chuck a stone to find people who would rate the "AWESOME STORY" as a pro.

    Yes, there is such a thing as having too much bias to the point that it blinds you from what are real problems with a game or real good aspects, but you know what, that's vaguely defined on where it is.

    And as if you play for the first time? But what makes that play superior for reviewing? Should I ignore my experiences with previous games in the series? That'd be rather silly. And what if through a few plays I come to appreciate the game on a whole different level. What if I write that a given game is like fine strong wine, a bit bitter at first but as you delve into it and give it a few sips you'll find more and more satisfaction. Something that might entirely be missed in just one play through.

    Bias is part of reviewing. And it's not a bad thing. Most of us read reviews for the points of view contained within them. We might even track people who's reviews we regularly agree with because we know their biases mirror our own.

    Dracos
  • ScubaSteveScubaSteve New Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    There will never be a totally unbiased review, but reviewers can get very close, and put themselves in other people's shoes by trying to look at the game from a different person's point of view. I'm no reviewer of any sort, but as an example, I hate it when an RPG is filled with too much story, and cut scene, but I when constructing a review, I'd do my best to keep that bias out of my final score.

    EGM has a pretty good system though, although the reviews are very brief. They have three different reviewers per game (used to be four back in the day). Some games will have different scores by different reviewers, other games will be almost unanimous. It's pretty much the way they do it in some Olympic events. A pretty good model to follow if you ask me.
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