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Xenosaga and .Hack

DevilMayCareDevilMayCare MemberFull Members
edited February 2004 in Role Playing Games
So..the 4th game in the .Hack series is out. How wonderful if I actually wanted to play it.

I was wondering then, how do you people enjoy games like .Hack? I'm not trying to be mean, but what really made you want to get through all those games so far? Infection was enough for me, when I played a small bit of Mutation, and saw close to no difference (graphics were a small bit better) I ended my connection to the games probably forever. I love a good storyline, and I enjoy a few good plot twists or a unique setting, but it seems a small bit arrogant to think that people will come back to exact same game with no difference except for a few touch-ups here and there. I wouldn't be making this topic and the series wouldn't be bothering me so much if I could just hate the damn thing. If it was just a bad game, in essence, I could forget about it. But I want to find out what happens in the storyline; I NEED to know because it interests me that much. So, it's either going to some guide or whatever and getting everything ruined, or dragging myself through that god-forsaken "World" through dungeon after semi-meaningless dungeon. Neither of which I want to submit too, so either way, I lose.

What's also bothering me is all the crap I hear about Xenosaga. From Desh mostly, and it doesn't surprise me to know that I'm just the one to squabble over personal prefrences, even though nothing good is likely to come out of it. It's fine really, since the Xeno games or the epitome of a love it or hate it game, that's not the thing that's really bothering me, is the fact I hear more bad things about it then about .Hack. If Desh thinks Xenosaga is bad, I'd almost pay him to play through the .Hack series straight through, the problem is, he might even enjoy it (even though that makes a small amount of sense to me). But, I mean, come on all I hear is: "It's just a movie." "It's so boring." "It has such a shallow ending." I could say almost the exact same thing abbout .Hack. It's like I'm in another dimesnion, it's like when people say Kill Bill is a terrible movie and don't even mention stuff like Bad Boys 2 (well..not like it was BAD or anything).

People say .Hack would've been a better game if it had all been put in one package. I disagree, it just would've been a more affordable game if it had been priced 50 bucks and put on the shelf with all the games in it. It still would've bored me to death with it's sheer repetitiveness, the .Hack series has done the one thing I never thought a game would: it's turned me away from a good story, heck, I got a ways into Galerians:Ash before giving up and that didn't bother me as much as .Hack. In one package, in 2 discs, or in 4 seperate episodes it doesn't matter. I would still be getting the same thing in a way. The problem with the whole matter is that Bandai for some reason wanted to push it out at such a speed that they didn't really have time to fix anything. The major redeeming factor for the Xenosaga series is that it has the time to listen to what people say is wrong with it, and fix it. I have to wait a year for it, but it might be a much better game than the first episode was. Of course, if it doesn't, and they just changed some of the graphics, then I'll be a bit angry with the whole matter. It seems to me that by pushing the games out like that, .Hack'll just die out and fade from memory while Xenosaga will be more or less livelier.

(I noticed, no one I've meet feels the same way about the .Hack games and the Xenosaga games. At least no one I've met has)
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Comments

  • edited January 2004
    Well I just read through all that, and I have to say honestly I can't tell what the heck this thread is about... Though for the record I hate both .Hack and Xenosaga. Not sure if you're taking a tally or whatnot...
  • KarlinnKarlinn Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    Yaknow, for someone who dislikes .Hack as much as you, you certainly do an awful lot of thinking and posting about it... is this some kind of Rear Window thing? ?tounge.gif

    Nah, if you want a simple answer about why some would prefer one over the other, you're not gonna get it. ?It's obsessive-compulsive button mashing with a thin but unique plot versus plot-heavy epic with semi-traditional RPG combat. You might as well compare vodka and peanut butter while you're at it.

    Far be it from me to present an unbiased opinion of .Hack (I write *fanfiction* about it, for god's sake) but the only thing the two have in common is that they're being sold in installments. ?Whether you like one or the other is less dependent on your pocketbook than your patience; how long you're willing to wait to get some answers, how much combat or cutscene you can put up with, und so veiter*.

    In my case, I view repetitive combat as easier to tolerate than insanely long cutscenes, and I like not having to wait for another five years to get all the answers, most of which I probably won't even understand if Eps. 1 was any indication. ?Obviously, your mileage may vary.


    * - if there's one thing I took away from Xenosaga, it's that putting phrases in German makes them sound smarter smile.gif
  • generatorgenerator Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    I'm with LiQuid on this one.. besides calling out Desh on personal preferences, what IS this thread about?
  • ArayaAraya Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    meow?
  • DevilMayCareDevilMayCare Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (generator @ Jan. 19 2004,12:58)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I'm with LiQuid on this one.. besides calling out Desh on personal preferences, what IS this thread about?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    It's not that hard to see. I was just talking about how I think it's kind of strange how I usually hear all this great stuff about .Hack more than I hear about the Xeno series. It's not like Xenosaga is without it's own flaws, but..it was kind of a passion of the moment thing when I made the topic. You know what? To me, Xenosaga may be a movie with a few sprinlkes of intermissions to serve as illusions of "gameplay", it might have only two battle themes (one for ALL battles except the final one), with the one you hear pretty much every battle turning from a symphonic masterpiece to a grating sound. Heck, I'll go with the fact that by limiting the soundtrack to only 12, ?12 songs, even some of Mitsuda's better tracks can save the game.

    I was just wondering why so many people have sort of denounced the series after it's first entry. I was expressing how perplexed I am at how there are so many .Hack fans who truly do enjoy the series. I was saying how I'm sort of dumbfounded at how Bandai reduced such a novel, original, impressive storyline along with a wonderful premise into a half-baked series that while having a good marketing buff will almost certainly fall into the abyss of obscurity by the end of the year.

    A major thing I should talk about is Desh. I wasn't really calling him out or anything, it's just I was using his preference as an example of what I trying to present in my post. If Desh's opinion was based on ignorance, or didn't take in account of anything good in the game, then I would be chewing him out. But it isn't, I know I brought my opinion up in the matter in a topic a while back (alright, a long while back) and even though the guy does seem to be just as sarcastic and deeply founded in his opinion as I am at times, he certainly didn't unfairly judge the game. Like I said before, Xenosaga is a love it or hate it kind of affair, .Hack (as stated by Solon) is a game you love to hate and hate to love. I don't having anything against the guy, I just tend to get a fair bit carried away when I'm arguing my opinion. Heh, Dracos had the same thing back in that "Chrono Break Dies" topic, even though I disagreed wholeheartedly with what he was saying.

    *Ahem* Getting off topic, I'm done now anyway.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Nah, if you want a simple answer about why some would prefer one over the other, you're not gonna get it. It's obsessive-compulsive button mashing with a thin but unique plot versus plot-heavy epic with semi-traditional RPG combat. You might as well compare vodka and peanut butter while you're at it.

    Far be it from me to present an unbiased opinion of .Hack (I write *fanfiction* about it, for god's sake) but the only thing the two have in common is that they're being sold in installments. Whether you like one or the other is less dependent on your pocketbook than your patience; how long you're willing to wait to get some answers, how much combat or cutscene you can put up with, und so veiter*.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    This is what I'm talking about, in short form for the people who don't know what I'm talking about.



  • MetacodMetacod Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    I've never played .hack, and I don't really want to. However, I have played Xenosaga and I definitely don't like what I see. You can't say "X is worse than Y, so you can't say Y is bad". Being prodded with hot coals may also be worse than playing Xenosaga, but that doesn't mean Desh or I can't say that Xenosaga disappointed us, or wasn't worth $50.

    Why have people denounced the series after its first entry? If they think the first entry is so terrible, why not? Is it so illogical to assume that if you found Episode 1 excrable, you'll probably find the following Episodes to be poor as well?
  • DevilMayCareDevilMayCare Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Metacod @ Jan. 19 2004,16:57)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I've never played .hack, and I don't really want to. ?However, I have played Xenosaga and I definitely don't like what I see. ?You can't say "X is worse than Y, so you can't say Y is bad". ?Being prodded with hot coals may also be worse than playing Xenosaga, but that doesn't mean Desh or I can't say that Xenosaga disappointed us, or wasn't worth $50.

    Why have people denounced the series after its first entry? ?If they think the first entry is so terrible, why not? ?Is it so illogical to assume that if you found Episode 1 excrable, you'll probably find the following Episodes to be poor as well?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    [Futile attempt at being a smartass mode]Personally, I find it illogical to compare how a realistic approach to a game's sequel can ruin the whole thing to how the Matrix would be ruined if it followed the rules and people died from a muscle spasm or whatever when "waking up".[Futile attempt at being a smartass mode/]tounge.gif

    I'm not saying that Xenosaga isn't disappointing, compared to the Xenogears it's a fair way's from meeting the qouta of it's epic space opera theme; or at least pulling it off impressively. I'm not saying the "X/Y" thing you brought up, I'm just saying that I feel like .Hack was kind of a cop-out compared to Xenosaga. Not in a way of either being better than the other (it's interesting to note that you don't really gain anything from sticking to just one of the series, sense bother are actually evenly matched) but more of quality execution. .Hack probably wasn't a marketing ploy in the beginning, but Bandai came dangerously close to making it seem that way. I spent 10 minutes in Mutation and found such a small difference from the previous installment that I kind of lost hope for the series. A 3 to 4 month period before releasing each addition to the series seemed like a terrible idea in my opinion. How is it possible for them to see their mistakes and fix them in such a small window? I knew the gameplay would be the same, I knew the locations would mostly be the same, I knew the only new thing would be several new servers, more characters and hints at the real storyline unveiling itself. Every episode seemed to be regurgitated version of it's predecessor just with a different color of vomit. Xenosaga's next installemnt on the other hand, is a year, or maybe even 2 in the making. Monolith has time to look back and see what they've done wrong and correct it. Of course, I do have my own doubts seeing as how Xenosaga seemed to be half-baked in some areas, (That battle music..if I have to hear one more time..) at least it's getting some treatment (hopefully) or at least some time to do so that Monolith more than likely will use to their benefit.

    You know, I'm starting to regret mentioning Desh at all. It was a pretty brash and reckless move really, and it's put me in a fix. I'm not saying that you can't say Xenosaga isn't disappointing, (your or anybody else) I'm just talking about how people tend to let themselves be biased on all the other installments of a series based on the beginning. It's like watching a fourth John Woo's Paycheck, say "I'm not going to like this movie." and walk out on it right then and there, before the action starts to finally be grinded (at such a sluggish pace it seems almost reluctant to do so) out of the picture. I don't consider it illogical, I just consider kind of brash and impatient to do so. I played a bit of Mutation, and when I saw that nothing was really improved from Infection I figured I had the grounds to dump the series.

    If I was prodded with hot coals, and then played Xenosaga. It wouldn't stop me from saying Xenosaga is disappointing, but I think you or most people in the situation would say that when compared to the previous experience, it's not all that bad. In my opinion, .Hack and Xenosaga are bad in their own ways, but .Hack's tedious quests and what seemed to me as the seemingly arrogant belief that I would dish out cash to play these essentialy very similar products that experienced such little change is what pushed me over the edge and brought Xenosaga bobbing out of the water while the .Hack series just seemed to sink relatively fast. I'm 14; I wouldn't spend the little bank I have on Xenosaga, ever. Not for 20 dollars, and certainly not for 50 dollars. But I got .Hack//Infection for 30 bucks and I wouldn't spend 15 bucks on that. When I compare my experiences, I choose Xenosaga's almost unacceptable flaws over .Hack's tedious dungeon crawling an day.

    Excrable? Hmm..



  • MetacodMetacod Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DevilMayCare @ Jan. 19 2004,17:37)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Of course, I do have my own doubts seeing as how Xenosaga seemed to be half-baked in some areas, (That battle music..if I have to hear one more time..) at least it's getting some treatment (hopefully) or at least some time to do so that Monolith more than likely will use to their benefit.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    If I have to hear the bad voice acting one more time... or listen to the inane technobabble... or sit through the cliche events, boring political machinations and painful "comedy"... or watch the hilariously phallic ships ram into one another... or complete another fetch quest stuck in merely to provide so-called "gameplay", no matter how pointless, between long cutscene stretches... or endure the characters' dumb personalities... or play through another tensionless, musicless well-lit dungeon... or listen to another eloquent but meaningless villain monologue...

    I didn't find some areas of Xenosaga to be half-baked, I found the whole thing to be completely uncooked. However, I'm still buying Eps. 2. Why? It could be because I am infinitely good and forgiving, but it could also be because it looks like you're right ? they seem to be fixing many of the things I complained about above.
  • DevilMayCareDevilMayCare Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    Wow..I've, I've actually managed to argue a point and resolve it in a well-meaning and adult manner without getting flamed, or flaming.

    This is a first on a forum, heck, it's even a rarity in real life!

    I am glad you understand, and realize I didn't mean any disrespect to Desh, yours, or anyone's opinion about either game. But I hope Monolith gets there act together, a year and a half or more should be more than enough to time to get everything together and turn Xenosaga into something that was as potent and raw as Xenogears was. Perhaps they could even fix what was wrong with Xenogears!

    I just really, really hope that they fix all that. I can sympathize with .Hack because I knew it wouldn't change, but if the only difference is a different graphics template and a good music selection (with more songs..please) I'm not even going to bother pretending to be happy with it despite how much I liked Xenogears.
  • KarlinnKarlinn Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I didn't find some areas of Xenosaga to be half-baked, I found the whole thing to be completely uncooked. ?However, I'm still buying Eps. 2. ?Why? ?It could be because I am infinitely good and forgiving, but it could also be because it looks like you're right ? they seem to be fixing many of the things I complained about above.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    If they fix those issues and more, I might give Eps. 2 a try. ?It's against my better judgment, but I just know if I try to give up now that nagging little voice in the back of my head that compelled me to finish XG and XS is gonna start up again: "But what about this? ?What'll happen in the next episode? ?You won't know! ?You'll never get to sleep again! ?NEVER!"

    I hate that voice. ?So much. ?So very much mad.gif
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    Why did you bother to buy two games in the Xeno series and not finish them? And then are considering buying a third? Shouldn't this be a hint that it might just not be your tastes? o_O

    Dracos
  • KarlinnKarlinn Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Why did you bother to buy two games in the Xeno series and not finish them? ?And then are considering buying a third? ?Shouldn't this be a hint that it might just not be your tastes? o_O

    Dracos[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Correction: I finished both of them. ?Like catching a bad movie on Fox or something midway through, that little guy in the back of my head compelled me; I just had to know how it ends, had to know who that guy was they just killed, and why, and where the money is, all that stuff.

    In regards to Saga... on the one hand, Eps. 1 scared me off; it had everything I disliked about XG, and almost nothing I liked. ?On the other hand, if they're changing things that bothered me about 1 then I feel at least somewhat compelled to have a look-see. ?This is most likely because I am a consumer ****, and not a very smart one at that. ?Also, I'm running out of ideas to steal for my own projects. ?Plus, I hate myself.

    (The actual reason is somewhat more complex, although once again I'm in agreement with Metacod; give 1 an overhaul for 2, and I just might want to try it. ?That's where the hemming and hawing begins - the debate between the little guy in my head that likes to be up to speed on this sort of thing, and the other little guy that reminds me I have six other games yet to finish, and 14 days left on the free trial for FFXI. ?It should go without saying that I'm not good at focusing sad.gif )
  • AlienaAliena Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    And here, I'm one of the "love it" people with Xenosaga. Perhaps it's simply because I had been anticipating the game for so long, but I loved everything about it - the gameplay, the music (I own the soundtrack now! Yay!), the story...oh, the story!...the characters, everything. I thought it was a wonderful game and I've had fun on a Xenosaga forum, digging up questions and being shown things I had missed the first time around. Heck, I even have all the cutscenes on a collection of discs so I can watch it again. I've heard less negative about Xenosaga because I hooked up with the Xenosaga-lovin' crowd.

    So what I feel? Make your own opinion. Judge it for yourself and don't necessarily listen to what others say because you might discover something completely different.

    But then again, if you've played a certain game and hated it, chances are you're not going to like the sequel either. It's cool when people are open-minded about trying it, but why balk about it if you were anticipating it being as unenjoyable as the first you tried?

    I haven't really heard bad things about .Hack either - I have the first game and am going to start it as soon as I beat KH.
  • DeshDesh Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"You know, I'm starting to regret mentioning Desh at all. It was a pretty brash and reckless move really, and it's put me in a fix.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    You sure as hell did, and it sure as hell was. ?First off, if you're going to confront me about a subject, you are most certainly welcome to... in the threads where I was actually debating said subject. ?You'll also get a response from me, most likely longer than you'd expect and surely longer than most people ever care to read. ?As I've expressed both through example and through belly-aching, I'm not satisfied with arguments consisting of:

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"It's just a movie.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"It's so boring.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"It has such a shallow ending.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    You know, I hate to sound arrogant, but learn from the example set by the person you tried to bash - put some thought into your arguments and rants before you even start to type them up. ?You'll save yourself a lot of grief later on, and you won't look like such a dub, either.

    And no, I haven't played any of .Hack, and my current financial and scheduling situations effectively eliminate my chances of playing it. ?Ah well.

    PS: Metacod, you bought Xenosaga for $50? ?I got mine for $30. ?Still a waste, though.



  • MetacodMetacod Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aliena @ Jan. 21 2004,19:36)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Perhaps it's simply because I had been anticipating the game for so long, but I loved everything about it[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Funny, that's exactly why I hated it.

    I have a very active imagination, to the point where the stories my subconscious conjours up can entertain me for hours on end without outside stimulation (though walking around with a CD/MP3 player helps). When a piece of entertainment tells me ? through itself, its creators or its fans?? that it's going to entertain me through its story, it better do so pretty damn well, or else I would be better off pacing around my house with headphones or writing. I was constantly told by importers and the media for over a year that Xenosaga was going to be a big intricate complex deep philosophical smart action-packed cinematic emotional plot experience!, so I hope you can imagine my disappointment at finding it to be an incomplete, poorly-told chunk of a plot that, by itself, can't stand up to any of the stories that constantly enter my mind. Add that to the fact that I consider its predecessor Xenogears to be much better than anything else I've ever thought up, and you begin to see the problem. I might have actually liked Xenosaga if I'd bought it without knowing what it was, and just thought "hey, this is kinda cool". However, as something endlessly touted as a big intricate complex deep philosophical smart action-packed cinematic emotional plot experience!, it didn't come anywhere near what I consider to qualify as such a thing. confused.gif
  • AlienaAliena Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    It's funny how I got something completely opposite of you out of it. Well, maybe not so funny...everyone's different.

    I personally cannot wait for Ep 2 - I'm hoping it answers some of my questions that sprung up in Ep. 1.

    And now...I'm off to bed. Been playing here too long!
  • KarlinnKarlinn Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    All right! ?The debate lives! It's lurking time!

    *grabs some popcorn*
  • JordanJordan Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    So... Lemme see here... Does ANYONE on these forums actually like Xenosaga...??? Besides me...?

    I didn't have any complaints about Xenosaga whatsoever... Other than the lack of music in many areas... Other than that I thought the game was incredible..

    Can some of you peoples who dislike Xenosaga please give me some sort of list of what you think are it's flaws???
    Cuz I'm having a hard time understanding what was wrong with Xenosaga. I loved it.

    Later
  • KarlinnKarlinn Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Can some of you peoples who dislike Xenosaga please give me some sort of list of what you think are it's flaws???
    Cuz I'm having a hard time understanding what was wrong with Xenosaga. I loved it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Desh and Metacod summed it up far better than I could ever hope to. ?But if you throw out the common 'inferior in light of Xenogears' argument (which even I will agree with), my beef is that it's basically pretty-looking, good-sounding (the music, at least) dimestore-philosophical technobabble that doesn't really do or say anything.

    Nothing is resolved (yes, I know, just Episode 1 and all, but it's going to be a long time between releases; they need to throw the player a bone once in a while), it seems to have picked up the old Xenogears habit of throwing in religious references and terms for no readily apparent reason, and it treads about as close to 'interactive movie' territory as games are likely to get, with the actual gameplay suffering as a result.

    I don't think it's impossible for Episode 2 to save this series in my eyes (and I must to emphasize that this is in my eyes; never assume that a vocal minority on the boards represents the gaming public as a whole smile.gif ) but they'd have to buck a few of their own trends to do that, and shore up the gameplay while they're at it. ?Time will tell, I suppose.
  • MetacodMetacod Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jordan @ Jan. 22 2004,10:22)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Can some of you peoples who dislike Xenosaga please give me some sort of list of what you think are it's flaws???
    Cuz I'm having a hard time understanding what was wrong with Xenosaga. I loved it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I've stated the perceived flaws in great depth in numerous other threads, so it should just be a matter of searching out my posts in other Xenosaga-centered threads. If you're looking for a detailed document that sums up much of what I think is dumb about XS, this would be a good start (though it's more focused on entertaining the reader than providing comprehensive criticism).
  • JordanJordan Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    How does the gameplay suffer from the movies??? I loved the movies, and the gameplay was great too! I sat intently, and loved every minute of the movies... I prefer the movies in Xenosaga over the equally long hours of text in Xenogears...

    Xenogears is my all-time favorite game ever. Sure the plaot in Xenosaga hasn't made any sense so far... But there's a helluva lot of story already behind all the (loveable, IMO) caharacters, and apparently a whole lot more to come. Yes, I agree that there's quite a bit of time between releases, but I prefer to have it this way that how the .hack series went. They just threw out the same game four damn times, without changing anything. The gameplay wasn't very good to begin with in .hack, and that didn't improve one bit. Neither did the graphics, battles, or anything else...

    But in Xenosaga they are taking a lot of time between each game to change and perfect the next installment.

    The plot-line will go places. Every confusiong plot-line that doesn't go anywhere is just an intricate story in progress. I have no doubts that the story of Xenosaga will all make perfect wonderful sense in the next installments, and satisfy everyone's questions...

    And one other thing... You can NEVER compare Xenosaga to Xenogears. I don't think people realize this... But It's a different game. There really is a minimal connection of the two games, and one should never expect a game to live up to another if they aren't deliberately connected. I've known not to expect it to live up to Xenogears since six months before episode 1 came out, and I wasn't dissapointed. Like I've always told everyone who wanted to know if Xenosaga was good... If you expect it to be like Xenogears, or live up to any of your idiotic expectations in relation to Xenogears you're going to be sadly dissapointed. I just don't think that anyone can seem to grasp this concept...

    I still have yet to see some reasons why people don't like this game, without comparing it to Xenogears. Get a clue people, it's not Xenogears. It's not supposed to be Xenogears...

    The only legitimate reasons I've seen so far is that there's too many movies(which I like, but I can see why others may not), and That the plot-line isn't resolved IN THE FIRST FREAKIN EPISODE!... Now that I think about it... HTat second reason isn't legitimate either. You can;t expect the whole plot to be spelled out in the first episode

    Later
  • DevilMayCareDevilMayCare Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Metacod @ Jan. 19 2004,18:08)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"
    Of course, I do have my own doubts seeing as how Xenosaga seemed to be half-baked in some areas, (That battle music..if I have to hear one more time..) at least it's getting some treatment (hopefully) or at least some time to do so that Monolith more than likely will use to their benefit.
    <span id='postcolor'>

    ..eloquent but meaningless villain...[/quote]
    That sums up Xenosaga fairly well, it's a beautiful game, but it also seemed to expand on Xenogear's problems. I forgave XG for the refrences to religion because as far as I can remember, they did have..somewhat of a refrence to the game. The problem with Xenosaga is that it can't really connect everything since it's limited by the fact that it's the first in what Monolith proclaims will be a decade long series at least. It can't give you answers like Xenogears did, and even though I accept that, I don't exactly like it.

    Also, in response to a few other posts, I do actually like Xenosaga, but I didn't find myself enjoying as much as..Xenogears for instance. A good game, yes, but they just need to work out some kinks..

    It's somewhat unreasonable to think people wouldn't compare games made by the same group of people, or start with the same two syllables. I read somewhere that Takahasi said somewhere that the two games took place in completley different universes..but I'll still compare them, as will many people who have played Xenogears and Saga. It's just..kind of natural. It doesn't diminish the experience, in fact, it almost makes me enjoy it somewhat more..the nods to XG were nice touches.

    I don't have a problem with the movies..at all.



  • MetacodMetacod Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jordan @ Jan. 22 2004,12:33)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"(loveable, IMO) caharacters[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Maybe there is, but I couldn't really care less since I found them a lot more hateable than lovable.
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Every confusiong plot-line that doesn't go anywhere is just an intricate story in progress.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Oh, how I wish I was still that naive...
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I still have yet to see some reasons why people don't like this game, without comparing it to Xenogears. Get a clue people, it's not Xenogears. It's not supposed to be Xenogears...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    See: previous post.
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"The only legitimate reasons I've seen so far is that there's too many movies[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    It's not that there are too many movies period, it's that the movies go on for hours without getting anywhere. It's poor pacing.
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"ou can;t expect the whole plot to be spelled out in the first episode[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Yes, but I'd expect there to be a plot in the first episode, instead of just a collection of random unexplained conversations and mysteries.
  • JordanJordan Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    Metacod... First of all...

    The movies in Xenosaga do not go on for hours. The longest movie in the game is around 45 minutes. Maybe your watch has poor pacing?

    Next, You may have not liked the characters. I liked all of them... MOMO and Jr. not as much, but I didn't hate them as much as say... Squall or Selphie... Or any of the characters form FF8 for that matter(excluding Zell).

    And about your cute little comment on the plotline? you wish you "were still that naive"? First of all, if anyone can make a completely nonsensical sounding plotline make brilliant sense, it's the people behind Xenogears. I have no doubt in my mind that the plot-line will connect. They're not going to leave plot holes in a six episode series, especially considering the expectations, plotwise, already put upon them, with everyone's expectations, because of Xenogears. And one other thing... You act liek I'm a thirteen year old. How does my believeing that the plot will come together make me naive??? Trust me, I've had my fair share of RPGs, and I'm not some dumbass "Rikku is H0tz0rzzz!" kid. If it matters I'm 18, I don't know how old you are, nor do I think it should matter, but I'm not as naive as you may think. I really don't see how you "not stillbeing so naive" has anything to do with my opinion.

    And lastly, sure I can agree that there were enough unexplained conversations and mysteries to make any impatient gamer go crazy, but like I said, I believe it will all unravel to become a deeper plot in the end. I can understand why one would be so confused as to disregard the entire plot simply because they don't understand it yet, but alas, that is not me. I intend to stick with the series, and someday really enjoy this plotline unraveling.

    And that little satire on Xenosaga spoof you gave a link to earlier was ridiculous. All it consisted of was one immature penis, puberty, and panties joke after another. Not to mention the countless "blah blah blahs" which could mean... "we have nothing relevant to insult this game about so lets just write blah blah blah a lot... HAHA PANTIES!"
    But seriously. I think whoever wrote that idiotic "interpretation" on Xenosaga was alot more naive than you are claiming me to be. There's only so many times you can complain about "boring" cutscenes, and panty shots, and annoying complaints about "continuity", and still have your opinion retain any validity. And I highly doubt that every time a Xeno-fan reads the word "God" they go "OMG OMG OMG"... that's more than highly exaggerated. Anyways, enough with insulting that ridiculous interpretation, I just don't think it accurately describes any xeno "fanboy", and just gets overly repetitive with it's over the top one-lined insults.

    Alright, well I've typed way too much already...

    Regardless, I'm not offended by any of your opinions on Xenosaga, I just happen to disagree with a few, and obviously that doesn't matter, because we both have our own opinions. Just know that I don't intend to change your interest in Xenosaga by any means, so don't take my posts as me trying to change your mind, because that simply is not the case. I'm just really trying to get at the heart of why it seems that a lot of people here dislike Xenosaga... Because it's a first for me to see many people not like Xenosaga because I spend the majority of my time at message boards at the Zenosaga board if I'm intending to talk about anything Xeno, and there aren't exactly too many people there that DON'T like the game...

    Alright, well if you read all this then good... But I know I typed way too much!

    Later
  • KarlinnKarlinn Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    Are you implying, sir, that Rikku isn't "H0tz0rzzz!"? ?confused.gif

    Kidding, kidding (though she is...) ?Like I said, vocal minority. ?There are no converts in gaming, just arguing and flame wars. ?Even if one theoretically could 'win' an argument with another gamer, they're probably not going to change their mind. ?The heart wants what the heart wants, and all that. ?It's like the Israel/Palestine situation, only more important tounge.gif
  • MetacodMetacod Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jordan @ Jan. 22 2004,14:29)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"The movies in Xenosaga do not go on for hours. The longest movie in the game is around 45 minutes. Maybe your watch has poor pacing?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    *Sigh* This is what happens when I expect people on the opposite side of an argument to think "what could he be saying with this?" rather than "this logic doesn't make sense at first glance, ergo it must be wrong". ?I didn't mean that the movies literally go on for continuous hours. ?I meant that if you take the movies together as their own thing ? a pretty apt decision, considering how Takahashi wanted them to stand alone if the gameplay was removed ? hours would be spent without anything getting done. ?In other words, long periods of time go by in Xenosaga's plot, whether told through continuous cinema or not, without things going anywhere that interested me. ?That was my point. ?You may feel differently, but I hope you at least understand what I'm saying.
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"And about your cute little comment on the plotline? you wish you "were still that naive"? [...] And one other thing... You act liek I'm a thirteen year old. How does my believeing that the plot will come together make me naive??? Trust me, I've had my fair share of RPGs, and I'm not some dumbass "Rikku is H0tz0rzzz!" kid. If it matters I'm 18, I don't know how old you are, nor do I think it should matter, but I'm not as naive as you may think. I really don't see how you "not stillbeing so naive" has anything to do with my opinion.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    No, it does not matter how old you are. ?Sorry if I offended you; all I meant was that I've seen plenty of stories that are all mystery and no substance all the way through, and even if Xenosaga starts having some substance I can easily see that substance not being worth the wait. ?Moreover, even if substance will come later, Eps. 1 is still all mystery, and I can't really see how it's so great just becuase it has the potential to become something good.
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"whoever wrote that idiotic "interpretation" on Xenosaga [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    That would be me.
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"[...]ridiculous. All it consisted of was one immature penis, puberty, and panties joke after another. Not to mention the countless "blah blah blahs" which could mean... "we have nothing relevant to insult this game about so lets just write blah blah blah a lot... HAHA PANTIES!"[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Why, thank you! confused.gif
    I can't really see what you're talking about, though. ?I made fun of pretty much everything in the game, the possibly intentional sexual undertones being just one of the numerous targets (and not even one of the more common ones). ?The only place I really remember using the "blah blah blah" stuff was in the first Elsa cutscene, and it was for a very specific reason ? I thought much of that cutscene's dialogue was overwritten and ultimately pointless. ?Also, I hate to brag, but you're pretty much alone in thinking that. ?The overwhelming majority of the people I showed that to, including big XS fans at the zenosaga and official XS forums, thought it was hilarious. ?Hell, a guy from the official forums put a quote from it in his signature.
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"And I highly doubt that every time a Xeno-fan reads the word "God" they go "OMG OMG OMG"... that's more than highly exaggerated.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You're right, most of them don't. ?But that "OMG" people do exist. Maybe not in that exact form... but that came in part from me hearing a bunch of people talk about the "deep religious/philosophical themes". The sections followed by the fanboy lines were the closest I could see in the game to anything that could be construed as "deep religious/philosophical themes", so I assumed that was what they were referring to. I incorporated the way I was puzzled by that into the TT.
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Because it's a first for me to see many people not like Xenosaga because I spend the majority of my time at message boards at the Zenosaga board if I'm intending to talk about anything Xeno[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I haven't seen you post there in a while...
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE", and there aren't exactly too many people there that DON'T like the game...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    If you've been there any time recently, you should know that I alone make up for that lack. wink.gif



  • TruoaTruoa Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    I have played both games, .Hack and Xenosaga, and to me all that matters is that both games are fun to play, each game has its own story line to follow. I think its fun playing the games by parts, episodes, it just keeps me interested in the game and thats the purpose of the companie who create this games!
    I bet you have seen worst before, so don't mind this games! biggrin.gif
  • AlienaAliena Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"In other words, long periods of time go by in Xenosaga's plot, whether told through continuous cinema or not, without things going anywhere that interested me. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    But didn't you just say earlier that it didn't have a plot at all? lol...sorry, Metacod. Just playing Devil's Advocate.

    It was a plot that, as you just said, didn't interest you. But that doesn't mean it wasn't there. I saw a definite story developing throughout the game and I loved that story. It was so intriguing to me. And yes, it left questions in my mind that I hope are answered in Ep 2, but that was one thing I liked - that it wasn't so cut & dry, shallow, and apparent. Like Jordan said (and yes, Jordan, I like Xenosaga too, as is apparent by my earlier comment in this thread), I've hung around a forum that was centered around the Xeno games, so I got much more discussion on the plot and stuff and it made the already cool plot, in my mind, even bigger.

    Different strokes for different folks, I say.
  • JordanJordan Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    Yes, it is true I haven't been at Zenosaga in a while... I just recently went back there, and I've only posted once or twice. I usually don't have time to go online(seeing as it took me two days to reply here again) and I rarely get into conversations on Xeno unless it's real hyped and about to be released... I'm just starting to get back into the hyp since there are some new news stories emerging about the game... You should be seeing me emerge more often at the Zenosaga forums, as the hype increases. I usually don't spend time online, or at forums, to begin with, except when I'm exceptionally bored, or hyped about a game, or movie, or band...

    Anywho, I honestly (no offense) didn't like your Xeno-Spoof... Maybe I'm in the minority there, but I found the same jokes repeated to be overly repetitive, immature, and lame. But that doesn't matter anyways...

    Alright, well neither of us are really gaining any ground in this 'argument', and I've said all I wanted to say pretty much, and I don't really care much for 'winning' any debates over why people should or shouldn't like the game... So, thanks for the insight... I just still don't see many valid reasons to dislike the game (although the few valid reasons you did support are warranted)...

    Later
  • RookRook Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    I guess I'll throw my 2cents in:

    .hack is probaly the ultimate love it or hate it game. You could give 100 reasons why the game is great (Original plot, awesome cutscenes, great character design) or 100 reasons why the game sucks (repetitive dungeons, not enough cutscenes, cost, PS1 graphics) and both arguments would be valid. I initally disliked the game and after playing Infection I didn't think I would buy Mutation. However I started to watch .hack//Sign and got really into the anime's and the game's plot. Now I don't mind the repetitive battles and have become more immersed in the plot of the game. Now I know why all those Gundam and Star Wars freaks buy all those crappy licenced games.

    In my opinion Xenosaga is the greatest game ever made. Its got the makings of a great story. The battle system is alot more fun (no random battles; customizable) and the voice acting is great in the game. Alot of people think Xenogears story is better however I don't think this is a good comparison. Xenogears was a stand alone episode. I think the Xenosaga series is going to be a trilogy with parts 1-2 on the PS2, 3-4 on the PS3 and 5-6 on the PS4 so it would be better to compare stories after epi 2 is released. Also alot of people complain about the long cutscenes. This dumfounds me becasue for years people have said there are too many battles and not enough cutscenes in games. Alot of people also complain that Xenosaga would have been better if it took place in the Xenogears universe. No way, thanks to epi. 5 you already knew the plots of the 1st 4 episodes so it wouldn't have been very dramatic.
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