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Points of View - Brave New World

Amish_ChiefAmish_Chief MemberFull Members
edited May 2004 in Latest Updates
As proof that I no longer have to deal with undergraduate classes forever, here's a massive update with 12 reviews courtesy of Roku and Otterland. ?Consider this a huge part of Points of View's ongoing effort to get rid of our backlog. ?Enjoy!

Comments

  • RokuRoku Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    Whoa, awesome update guys ^_^.

    Amish, congratulations on your graduation!

    I'm too tired to speak coherently about much, so I'll just make a quick comment about the difficulty rating in Otterland's reviews. ?I'm afraid I just don't see your reasoning for every game receiving a difficulty of hard or above (Aside from Paladin's Quest which I have not played and Dragon Warrior III which I have yet to finish)

    EDIT: As far as my own difficult scale is concerned, I believe I overrated Kingdom Hearts as well. ?I took expert mode and hidden bosses into account for some reason. That should be easy aside from hidden bosses on expert.



  • Duke OtterlandDuke Otterland Banned Banned Users
    edited May 2004
    Well, they are pretty difficult games, Roku. Well, maybe more unbalanced than difficult. Older RPGs such as these tended to appeal to the most hardcore gamers, hence their difficulty.
  • naia28naia28 Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    Well Otterland, no offense, but I disagree with your reviews regarding Zelda. ?Perhaps this is because I am an older and as you put it "hardcore" gamer. ?If you know where to look you can acquire either five or six hearts before the first dungeon in Zelda I and thus giving you the opportunity to get the white sword (which I do before even going to the first level). ?That may help make things easier.

    Maybe I have more patience, but I didn't have problems with Zelda II until the final dungeon... so I didn't think it was as hard as you made it out... I dunno... I guess if you thought that those games were hard that's fine. ?Have you played them recently?
  • Duke OtterlandDuke Otterland Banned Banned Users
    edited May 2004
    Yes, it was definitely recent that I played the two NES Zeldas. I just really didn't experience the magical games the other reviewers made them out to be. A Link to the Past was much-improved, though, so I'll be sure to replay that and review it in time to come.

    While Dragon Warrior was my first RPG, I didn't really get into RPGs until the SNES era with Breath of Fire, so I'm semi-old-school (I didn't catch the other three NES Dragon Warriors until much later).



  • RokuRoku Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke Otterland @ May 27 2004,05:11)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Well, they are pretty difficult games, Roku. Well, maybe more unbalanced than difficult.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I'm afraid I disagree with you there. I guess I found all of them easy except for Zelda II which I thought was moderate. Until you play the last level of SaGa Frontier II and barely come out alive after a gruesome battle, you don't know pain. ^^
  • Duke OtterlandDuke Otterland Banned Banned Users
    edited May 2004
    Speaking of SaGa, I should mention that SaGa Frontier (the first, that is) is the only RPG I've played yet never beaten. I could never get past those stupid rollerskate enemies towards the end of the robot's quest. I remember replaying the same scenario several times up to that very point yet still getting clobbered miserably there.
  • RokuRoku Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    Yup, that sounds like SaGa alright. They're sadistic laugh.gif.
  • SolonSolon Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    I'm in agreement with most of Roku's reviews, save for the FFVIII one, but I guess I'm one of the few who actually enjoyes that part of the series more than any of the other.

    I guess it always depends on the player and all, but I have to agree with Otterland about the difficulty of these older games... I found the older Zelda games to be much harder than its sequels. I cannot speak for Dragon Warrior though, since I don't have that much experience in the series.

    And yeah, anyone thinking RPGs are easy... go play SaGa Frontier 2's final dungeon tounge.gif
    Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
  • skyfireskyfire Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    Who the heck writes these reviews anyway? Those scores do not reflect these games at all. The only one I have not played is Paladins Quest. The others are gems in the own right some even break the barriers for there time. Even today, they still provide enjoyment and good challenge which is more then I can say for 95% of today's walk-in-the-park games we got now.

    But I guess thats the problem when younger generations look at older games. They just don't get what it is that makes a great game. Man I feel old now tounge.gif.
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    Yeah, SaGa frontier can be pretty sadistic. I still haven't beaten Virgil in Riki's quest. I can never get enough high level combos...

    I've beaten all the other ones though.



    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • SolonSolon Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (skyfire @ May 27 2004,20:20)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Those scores do not reflect these games at all.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    What you meant to say was "those scores do not reflect my opinion of them at all."
    Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
  • kardas_heartkardas_heart New Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    Solon is right. You know, the score is one thing. Then there's the reviews, go read them so you'll know why they get theses scores. Well, in fact, a score is nothing if there is no reasons.

    After that, if you still don't agree, you can always write your own reviews to tell us your point of view. That would be more interesting/useful than a simple sentence on the board.
  • Red RavenRed Raven Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    Saga Frontier wasn't too horrible, at least after you had enough money to use the "gold cheat" and buy the best equipment in the game. Once that was done, the rest of the game was pretty easy. The reward for beating all seven quests isn't worth the trouble, though.

    Saga Frontier 2, on the other hand, is by far the hardest modern RPG ever created. I was never able to beat Wil's final battle, and I cannot count the hours it took to beat Gustav's "the only way to win is if your enemies miss" final battle.

    A nice change of pace from easier, mainstream RPGs but I have to wonder how much of it was actual "difficulty" rather than "lazy programming."

    ? -Red Raven
  • RokuRoku Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (skyfire @ May 27 2004,11:20)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Who the heck writes these reviews anyway? Those scores do not reflect these games at all. The only one I have not played is Paladins Quest. The others are gems in the own right some even break the barriers for there time. Even today, they still provide enjoyment and good challenge which is more then I can say for 95% of today's walk-in-the-park games we got now.

    But I guess thats the problem when younger generations look at older games. They just don't get what it is that makes a great game. Man I feel old now :p.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    So all of the games aside from Paladin's Quest have scores that are too low eh? Well, I could be wrong, but it sounds like you didn't notice that scores are out of 5 now and didn't even bother reading the reviews to see how much praise was given to most of them. Unless a game is virtually perfect it won't get a five. As far as Mystic Quest and Hoshigami are concerned, neither was revolutionary and both were poorly executed in my opinion. If you would like to debate these further then by all means do so, but please be more specific. Simply saying that the scores don't reflect the games doesn't tell us much of anything.
  • Noj AirkNoj Airk Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke Otterland @ May 27 2004,05:11)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Well, they are pretty difficult games, Roku. Well, maybe more unbalanced than difficult. Older RPGs such as these tended to appeal to the most hardcore gamers, hence their difficulty.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    No Otterland, I totally agree with you. ?Both are amazingly hard games. ?They're not like Destiny of an Emperor, which was hard once, but playing it later isn't too bad. ?Both games had me curse probably more than any other games in the world.

    True, if you ask me I'd say that the original is a great game (although Crystalis was better in terms of music, graphics, story, pacing, interface, dungeon design, and gameplay, and is near impossible, like you said, but that was because of its own old-school design that simply doesn't let you explore too much, since everywhere there's a battle), and outside of great music and decent NES graphics, I'd personally say that Zelda II was between 98-100% without any merit whatsoever in any way, even remotely. ?True, that's just me.

    Although I would have to disagree with what you said that the debate over Zelda games being RPG's being based on the lack of experience points. ?I think that the real reason is because until The Wind Waker, except a couple of entries, none had anything worthy of being called a "story".



  • Noj AirkNoj Airk Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Roku @ May 27 2004,16:01)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"So all of the games aside from Paladin's Quest have scores that are too low eh? ?Well, I could be wrong, but it sounds like you didn't notice that scores are out of 5 now and didn't even bother reading the reviews to see how much praise was given to most of them. ?Unless a game is virtually perfect it won't get a five. ?As far as Mystic Quest and Hoshigami are concerned, neither was revolutionary and both were poorly executed in my opinion. ?If you would like to debate these further then by all means do so, but please be more specific. ?Simply saying that the scores don't reflect the games doesn't tell us much of anything.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Good call, maybe that's it.
    I agree that both were weakly executed, but why doesn't anyone like Mystic Quest's music all that much I wonder. I thought the music was easily better than that of FF's VIII & IX put together.
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Raven @ May 27 2004,15:25)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Saga Frontier wasn't too horrible, at least after you had enough money to use the "gold cheat" and buy the best equipment in the game. Once that was done, the rest of the game was pretty easy. The reward for beating all seven quests isn't worth the trouble, though.

    Saga Frontier 2, on the other hand, is by far the hardest modern RPG ever created. I was never able to beat Wil's final battle, and I cannot count the hours it took to beat Gustav's "the only way to win is if your enemies miss" final battle.

    A nice change of pace from easier, mainstream RPGs but I have to wonder how much of it was actual "difficulty" rather than "lazy programming."

    ? -Red Raven[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I'd think that such things aren't 'fun difficulty', regardless of whether they come from lazy programming or intentional difficulty. Of course, given the nature of RPGs it's rather difficult to program in difficulty most the time, but something like that doesn't really tweak my mind as being difficult in a fun sense. There's no cleverness required. No analysis skills.

    This I actually find to be the case in most so called difficult RPGs or modes. The Tales of ... modes that just double or triple the power level of the enemy don't really tend to seem like fun extra difficulty either in my opinion as those just changed the simple battles into wars that required pretty much the same strategies as the simple battles. I dunno, but it'd be nice seeing games that managed that hard to accomplish line of 'fun difficulty'.

    Dracos
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Noj Airk @ May 27 2004,16:19)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I agree that both were weakly executed, but why doesn't anyone like Mystic Quest's music all that much I wonder. ?I thought the music was easily better than that of FF's VIII & IX put together.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    As much as I do bear a fond spot in my heart for FF:MQ and especially it's music, you have to be either kidding or lying to yourself if you honestly are rating it above FFVIII's musical score qualitatively. As much as I hold that game in contempt, it's bordering ridiculousness to ignore that it had an impressive musical score in it, as did FFIX.

    Dracos
  • skyfireskyfire Member Full Members
    edited May 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Roku @ May 27 2004,16:01)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (skyfire @ May 27 2004,11:20)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Who the heck writes these reviews anyway? Those scores do not reflect these games at all. The only one I have not played is Paladins Quest. The others are gems in the own right some even break the barriers for there time. Even today, they still provide enjoyment and good challenge which is more then I can say for 95% of today's walk-in-the-park games we got now.

    But I guess thats the problem when younger generations look at older games. They just don't get what it is that makes a great game. Man I feel old now tounge.gif.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    So all of the games aside from Paladin's Quest have scores that are too low eh? ?Well, I could be wrong, but it sounds like you didn't notice that scores are out of 5 now and didn't even bother reading the reviews to see how much praise was given to most of them. ?Unless a game is virtually perfect it won't get a five. ?As far as Mystic Quest and Hoshigami are concerned, neither was revolutionary and both were poorly executed in my opinion. ?If you would like to debate these further then by all means do so, but please be more specific. ?Simply saying that the scores don't reflect the games doesn't tell us much of anything.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Hey your right, I didn't notice that. I apologize and recend my original post.
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