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Fire Emblem or Mario & Luigi?

HarryCareyHarryCarey MemberFull Members
edited January 2004 in Role Playing Games
... decide for me, rpgamers! ... pleeeease?
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Comments

  • edited November 2003
    Since you didn't even bother giving us a poll, I say:

    BOTH

    Hahaha. No seriously though. That's like trying to pick your favorite child. Not gonna happen. Buy em both, you'll enjoy both. If for some reason you can only afford 1, then don't buy either, save it for SwoM in 2 weeks.
  • lord-of-shadowlord-of-shadow Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Get Fire Emblem, I'd say.

    Althoguh I'm not the msot reliable person to ask this, having not played Mairo and Luigi yet ;)

    But Fire Emblem is my favorite GBA game so far.
  • agentflitagentflit Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LiQuid|Juravial @ Nov. 20 2003,15:14)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"save it for SwoM in 2 weeks.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Yes.

    If not, then I'd say Fire Emblem.
  • HarryCareyHarryCarey Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    i'm definitely getting sword of mana no matter WHAT... it looks and sounds amazing. i'm willing to spend the money on either fire emblem or mario and luigi, too... just don't know which.
  • AshgadAshgad Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    I'll say Fire Emblem, but it's really a matter of personal preference. It's a great season for GBA RPGs. :)
  • DeshrillDeshrill Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Fire Emblem is a fun game that reminds me a lot more of Shining Force than Final Fantasy Tactics since you move around on a flat area. The graphics in the cut scenes are nice, but otherwise are a bit bland. It gets pretty challenging as you go along...

    Mario & Luigi is very funny. I loved Super Mario RPG back in the day and while I never played Paper Mario, this is definitely in the spirit of the original. It has some unique platform elements along with a goofy plot.

    Out of the two, I'd say Mario & Luigi, although if you can get Fire Emblem used go for it. Depends on what you like.
  • ShadowKnight28ShadowKnight28 Banned Banned Users
    edited November 2003
    Everyone is going to have a different opinion of what game is good and what game isn't. You really have to try it out for yourself. Maybe rent it before buying it. If you do like Sword of Mana then get that instead of the other too, just an idea.
  • Quentin McLeodQuentin McLeod Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Do not get Mario&Luigi for the love of God, it's not even a real RPG, imagine Marion ever having a storyline, won't happen we're talking about Nintendo.
    Get Fire Emblem.
  • Max_DeltreeMax_Deltree Is trying to get back in these forums Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Why it's not a rpg? There's a story (though not a mind blowing one), it has levels of experience. I think there's more way of classifing it then any zelda.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"imagine Marion ever having a storyline, won't happen we're talking about Nintendo.
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    You might not even have played Super Mario RPG, but it was one of the most aclaimed RPGs from Super Nes. And Mario & Luigi comes really close to that.

    And deciding the game, I would like to see what you like most:

    A serious, challeging strategical rpg?

    or a light-hearted, equilibrated and funny almost-action rpg?

    Now my personal opinion. I suck at Fire Emblem style games, so I wouldn't buy it. Right now I'm kinda hooked on Mario & Luigi. I can't stop playing it. tounge.gif
    PSN ID: MaxDeltree
  • HarryCareyHarryCarey Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    haha, i bought mario and luigi for now, basically because it was 5 bucks cheaper ($25)... so far, i like it a good bit. the battle engine is simple and fun, the characters are amusing, and the graphics, which looked questionable in the screenshots, actually fit the nutty, cartoony atmosphere. so far, so good. i'm gonna pick up fire emblem eventually, anyway.

    also, i picked up legend of mana the other day, too. your word seems to be quite worthy, max.

    oh yeah... thanks to everyone who's replied so far.
  • Quentin McLeodQuentin McLeod Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Yo Max, I really have played Mario RPG, but that was'nt a Mario-game per say, Square made that game entirely without the help of Nintendo, N' just said what they could'nt do to their characters.

    And I honestly would have chosen the Strategical RPG without a doubt.

    I do agree that it's proboably more of an RPG than Zelda, I don't consider Zelda an RPG (Exept for maybe Z2).

    Lastly: Story is the core of the RPG, that way no Zelda game to date can be counted as one, and Peache's voice being stolen by some which is not enough to get me interested.....not by miles.
  • PhatosePhatose Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    You do understand that 'story is the core of the RPG' isn't a given by any stretch of the imagination, right?

    In fact, I could probably argue that story is really the equivalent of graphics and sound - a nice thing to have, but really just decoration on the core gameplay.
  • Quentin McLeodQuentin McLeod Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Phatose, it's obvious we have very different opinions regarding this matter. It is true that Gameplay is the most important aspect of any game, that is in most cases. RPGs are different, what would an RPG be without it's storyline? Would it even be an RPG? If Kingdom Hearts had not had the great story it had, had it not been an ordinary action-game?

    M&L is classified as an Action/RPG, but withour a proper storyline I'll always classify it as an ordinary action-game, the same goes for Zelda: It's an ordinary Adventure-game, not an RPG.
  • PhatosePhatose Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Ah, I see. So because the story that does exist doesn't live up to some abritrary standard of depth or quality it's not part of the genre? That's an awfully odd way to do things, and honestly comes across as unbelievably arrogant. Much like it would be if I were to simply declare FF7 wasn't an rpg, simply because I detest it's storyline. I can't imagine such a definition of rpg would be actually useful for anything - the term becomes nothing more then a vague opinion. Nothing can be termed an rpg with any meaning, because anyone can simply say "Story's not good enough, not an rpg".

    IMHO, if you strip away kingdom hearts story and it's suddenly not an rpg, then it was never an rpg to begin with. Mechanics determine genre.
  • VermillionVermillion Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Wait...Quentin...are you telling me that POKEMON ISN'T AN RPG? THEN WHAT IS IT? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    Seriously, Phatose is right: mechanics determine an RPG. If story was the main factor, then Metal Gear Solid would be an RPG. So would Tony Hawk Underground (I think it has a story...).
    And add to that the insult of Pokemon, one of the most successful RPGs ever...if story were the main factor, Pokemon, even flimsier in story than Mario & Luigi, would not be an RPG...

    Carmine M. Red
    Kairon@aol.com



  • Quentin McLeodQuentin McLeod Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    An RPG does not need to be played like FF, DW, etc.
    If you level and the game focuses on the story, then it's an RPG.

    And seriously dude, Pokemon was only successful because all Japanese children are crazy about it, most RPG-fans that I know don't bother with it. Pokemon really is a "Monster Breeder", the genre was originally created by Enix way back when with Dragon Warrior Monsters; it's not an RPG.
  • VermillionVermillion Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Even assuming that "Monster Breeding" isn't a subset of RPGs(the case can be made either way), I would agree with you if Pokemon was just a carbon copy of Tamagotchi. It isn't.

    The two things which you require for RPGs Pokemon has. Levelling is clearly present in great amounts in Pokemon.And the game IS story centric in that the main character is continually directed towards solving puzzles in the game world, and working towards an ultimate goal of defeating Gym Leaders and then the Elite Four.
    To discriminate between relatively simple story that Pokemon has, and the more complex stories we can expect from other games is simply to state a preference. Both are stories, it is only personal taste that differentiates them. Both the Berenstein Bears and Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead are stories, its simply that they are stories of a different type.

    You can define RPGs for yourself, and you'll be right...for yourself. You can deny that Pokemon and Berenstein bears aren't story oriented...and you can convince yourself.

    But if all you're asserting is that because Pokemon's (Or Mario & Luigi's) story is simplistic and doesn't interest you, therefore the game isn't an RPG... you have a long way to go to convince me.

    Carmine M. Red
    Kairon@aol.com



  • bhsbhs Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE" Pokemon really is a "Monster Breeder", the genre was originally created by Enix way back when with Dragon Warrior Monsters; it's not an RPG.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Digital Devil Monogatari Megami Tensei was technically the first (as far as I know), predating Dragon Warrior Monsters by over a decade. I think. I'm not sure when Dragon Warrior Monsters came out, but Digital Devil Monogatari Megami Tensei was released for the Famicom in 1987.
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    You know... This guy has a great idea going. Let's use his standards. Hmm, guess that rules out Final fantasy 1, what with having a story that was no more complex then having random heroes save the world! And it rules out Dragon Warrior 1 as well!

    Of course, because the rest of the games in that series are in some way derivative of the original, I guess we can just play the generalization card that he likes to apply and declare the whole two series and all derivative games of them not rpgs.

    ... Have I made it enough of an absurdity yet or should I continue?

    Mario and Luigi has a plot. It's cute, simple, and focused mostly towards kids but it's amusing and generally cleanly plays out. The game does have a very action based system but it does it within the boundaries of an RPG. There is leveling, so by your qualification A, it is an RPG. There is a story which drives the game (And no, it's not Princess Peach having her voice stolen. That's a starter, as anyone who plays lots of RPGs should recognize), so by your qualification B, it is an RPG.

    If you are going to arbitrarily and arrogantly define qualifiers...it's best to make sure that the game that you are denouncing doesn't fulfill them. Of course, if you haven't played it, as your words seem to indicate, then it's quite possible you would be utterly unaware of these things.

    Dracos
  • LukeTSManagerLukeTSManager Banned Banned Users
    edited November 2003
    This thread just gave me a migraine.

    Gameplay > Story
  • Quentin McLeodQuentin McLeod Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    I'll try to explain it like this, I know you'll never agree with me but I'll still give it a shot:

    I'll take KH for example because it is an Action/RPG. If we were to take away the storyline would it not simply be an Action-game?

    I have played M&L on my computer for about an hour and everything that I experienced was...... to say it simply: Stupid and Childish. When listening to the "Music" in the first scenes I actually got a headache, it sounded like some freak banging his head towards a keyboard, there was absolutely no "feeling". And if the storyline goes deeper I would'nt know about it, and I doubt it goes any deeper seeing how tremendously "deep" Sunshine or Mansion were.

    And about FF1 and DW1 not being RPGs I can only say: ARE YOU MAD!! These were games for the NES, there was no such thing as a good storyline. But this is 2003, anything called an RPG has to have a storylina and base the game on it.



  • AdremmelechAdremmelech The Original Playa... Full Members
    edited November 2003
    What about Animal Crossing? It won best RPG at a very reputable award ceramony. Its practically the Sims RPG.
  • Quentin McLeodQuentin McLeod Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    What award ceremony was that? For all I know Animal Crossing is a simulator meaning no story AT ALL! It can be played forever, to me it goes in the same category as The SIMS.
  • AdremmelechAdremmelech The Original Playa... Full Members
    edited November 2003
    I talk about it here. it was a wild scene man.
  • VermillionVermillion Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Quentin, we're perfectly fine with you disliking Mario & Luigi. But that's not what we're discussing here: we're discussing whether or not Mario & Luigi can be classified as an RPG generally.

    Besides, everything you felt about Mario & Luigi... I felt for FFVII. A more conceited set-up I could not have imagined. And I actually sat through most of that game: I just had my younger brother play through it since I couldn't stand it. If we let personal enjoyment of games come into the question, I could make a case for FFVII not being an RPG, by your last post's reasoning.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I'll take KH for example because it is an Action/RPG. If we were to take away the storyline would it not simply be an Action-game?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    So a true RPG is one where the game has no redeeming qualities but it's story? If you were to take away the story of a true RPG, you'd have the most boring thing in the world? Sorta discourages innovation and good gameplay doesn't it?

    Anyways, if you want to come up with a more specific subcategory of RPG for Mario & Luigi, then I'd be happy with that. It obviously isn't an action-rpg...would it be a platform/timing/rpg?
    I'd rather think it's too picky to label Mario & Luigi as anything but just an RPG, but I DO think that there is no question as to what genre this game falls under by most people's general definition, and the AIAS' definitions: RPG.
    Like I said before, you can have your own definition of RPG to suit your own prejudiced rejections of "Stupid and Childish" games. But don't try to hoist your skewed and unfair views on the rest of us.
    We're not as eager to dismiss a game because of the mere fact it comes from a Nintendo background...

    Carmine M. Red
    Kairon@aol.com
  • edited November 2003
    I'm going to have to second Quentin as biggest headache inducing board member of the month, taking the crown away from CHASIS-BLADE...

    Story is something that is prevelent in 90% of games being developed right now regardless of genre. Some games have good stories. Story is simply a feature that is applied to any of the many genre of games, action, puzzle, fighting, racing, etc. Simply having a story does NOT qualify a game to be an RPG. On the other hand, having a system to level up (namely stats, or abilities of some kind) pretty much qualifies a game to be considered an RPG. Now as there's a definate system of leveling up in M&L, I would think that qualifies it as an RPG.
  • Max_DeltreeMax_Deltree Is trying to get back in these forums Full Members
    edited November 2003
    You know, I don't think Final Fantasy is an RPG. Looks more like an action-adventure 2d flight simulator.
    PSN ID: MaxDeltree
  • HarryCareyHarryCarey Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    mario & luigi is definitely an rpg. i don't see how it could be anything else.

    i've played it some more, and i have to say i find it quite impressive... fun to play, silly and funny, and the puzzles, while not too hard to solve, require the player's attention and a few seconds of brainstorming. i'll gladly be 'dumb and juvenile' and take mario and luigi over most other recent rpgs anyday.
  • Quentin McLeodQuentin McLeod Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    ####!!!! the internet messed up and I had written a really long answer! Let's start over.

    I have no prob with you guys liking M&L, and I certainly don't think you're stupid for liking it, don't get me wrong.

    And Vermillion, I'd really like to know what makes you think I'm prejudgeing this game because it comes from Nintendo, the game was not even made by Nintendo, it was made by a small unknown company called Alpha Dream. I really hate when Nintendo fanboys give Nintendo the honor for every game that comes out on their systems; Nintendo did NOT make Eternal Darkness, Final Fantasy: Chrystal Chronicles, Metroid Prime, Kirby, Baten Kaitos, MGS: Twin SNakes, etc.

    I'm not saying you are a fanboy, just that you've got the wrong info.

    I admit that M&L could be called an RPG, it's just that I proboably got a really bad start with it, giving me a headache and all.

    Sorry for any inconvenience.

    Oh, I'd just like to add: Are Onimusha and Devil May Cry RPGs? There certainly is a level-up system.



  • edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Oh, I'd just like to add: Are Onimusha and Devil May Cry RPGs? There certainly is a level-up system. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    About as RPG as Zelda II is. There's a "level up" system, but it's not traditional by any stretch of the imagination. Collecting crystals to buy abilities from a statue isn't really RPG-ish if you ask me, though by the vague definition, it, and Zelda II can both be considered RPG's yes. The term 'RPG' is broad enough to encompass many different variations on a single theme. I think that's been many folk's point all along.
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