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Square Enix Talks In-Game Advertising and Patches

RtraveRtrave New MemberFull Members
edited July 2006 in Latest Updates
No need for double-takes, yes, it really is Cloud advertising a cell phone! Square Enix sees a new horizon, along with the possibility of console games being fixed via patching.

Confusing? Horrifying? Read on here!
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Comments

  • MagRowanMagRowan Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    Whoo hoo! Another excuse to put out buggy code and a new place to get bogged down with the marketing agenda! Yeay! Sign me up!

    That patch idea is going to bite them in the butt. I've seen projects slide downhill when good debugging/quality assurance is passed up in favor of getting it out the door.

    Square is now officially on my probation list.
  • OurobolusOurobolus Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    Yeah. Let's inconvenience the player by forcing them to waste time downloading something they could have fixed beforehand. Woo.

    On one hand, it may save them money. On the other hand, I may destroy them. They might need to prioritize.
  • ShadowcatShadowcat Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    it's offical: SE has just become Microsoft....making buggy software products for the masses!
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  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    Well, when a whole bunch of people whine about how S-E is delaying their games, this is what happens.

    This reminds me so much of the summons in FFIX. I love S-E for stuff like this.



    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • Cactuar JoeCactuar Joe Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    Two things I dislike about PC games, brought over to consoles? Sure, sounds great. Sign me up for that. Can't wait.
  • Aquila HawkAquila Hawk O_o Full Members
    edited July 2006
    I hate it when Wada comes up with a "great idea". See note changing Sakaguchi's screen play name from Secret of Gaia to Final Fantasy: the Spirits Within to capatolize on the name. Let's face it, Yoichi Wada doesn't know games or software. He's a buisness man.

    I personally don't mind patches per se, so long as it's in a case of "we debugged this this as best we can, but this problem showed up out of no where when the new version of some consoul's BIOS came out". Ie. it's good for stuff you can't foresee. Patches to save time on development? Call me when the software works, then I'll buy.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • DragoonKain3DragoonKain3 Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    In-game advertising? Sickens me to the core, especially since I already payed for the freaking software. If it's relatively minor like the pepsi sign on the back of the tavern or something like that, I can live. But if it starts gumming up the gameplay by say, an ad sidebar or unskippable 'commercial scenes', I'd be a very very angry gamer.

    As for the debugging issue, I agree with Aquila. One reason why I put SE above the average developer is that their games work flawlessly (or close to it) right out of the box. Now if they start pulling a Microsoft, I do what I do now for other publishers I am wary of: wait up to a month after the game is released and check online to see if the game is playable. Which is real bad, I tell you, since I'm an impulse buyer (especially for RPGs) and by the time the month comes rolling by my interest would sure have waned or even worse, totally have forgotten about it.

    Seriously, I buy every single-player multiple character party RPG I can find, even if I don't play it till the end. As such, I'm a very good customer of SE (I'm pretty sure I own every one of the PS1 Square and Enix rpgs), and these two developments... Let's just say that me being in an uproar right now is quite an understatement. Let's see if it actually follows through, but if it is as worse as I'm imagining it, SE would illicit a boycott from me. And I won't care if I'm missing the next FF or whatnot, I would have (and still have) other RPGs I can play, thank you very much.
  • MonCapitan2002MonCapitan2002 Avatar Captured Full Members
    edited July 2006
    <div>
    (Shadowcat @ Jul. 12 2006,17:46)</div><div class="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div class="QUOTE">it's offical: SE has just become Microsoft....making buggy software products for the masses!</div>
    Hyperbole much?

    I will say this. I can't stand advertising. If Square Enix used in game advertising, then I would not buy their games. I get bombarded enough by advertising as it is. I do not want to see it in the games I play. If they can't make enough money by selling the games they make, then they either should have the decency to go out of business, or reduce the production budget of their games.
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  • Datguy86Datguy86 Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    I don't mind in-game advertising so long as

    1) It's not popping up in the middle of something important, like "Drink Speed!" during the final boss fight. Also,

    2) Since advertisers are paying, in this case Square-Enix, a portion of the development costs, I expect a portion to be taken off the MSRP. If looking at a "Drink Speed!" trailer before my game opens shaves $10 off what would normally been a $50 game (or as Microsoft's and Sony's stupidity would have it, $60+), then I'll somehow find a way to live with the extra funds in my hand.
  • MonCapitan2002MonCapitan2002 Avatar Captured Full Members
    edited July 2006
    I would rather pay more for a game without advertising then pay for adware at any price. The moment it come with advertising, it ceases to be a legitimate product in my eyes.
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  • Datguy86Datguy86 Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    There's a difference between ad placement (Cloud holding a Motorola) and adware (Drink Speed! knows your favorite video games while you're playing them).

    There's this commercial I like that's a couple years old. When FFIX was released in Japan, Square did an all-CG commercial for Coca-Cola using actual characters from FFIX. It's a neat little bit, and despite the corporate whoring didn't make FFIX any less a game or a legitimate product. Seeing Cloud using a Motorola didn't make Advent Children less of a movie. If I were to play Shadow Hearts: From a New World and see Macy's in the background it wouldn't make it less of a game.

    Sitting in front of my TV, cursing a company trying to battle rising development costs incurred by two multimedia giants constantly trying to show the other who's penis is bigger might make it less of a game.

    Granted, that last sentence doesn't really apply to Square-Enix, who with these other announcements has made it quite clear it's about cash.
  • AethelredAethelred Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    <div></div><div class="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div class="QUOTE">I can't stand advertising. If Square Enix used in game advertising, then I would not buy their games. I get bombarded enough by advertising as it is. I do not want to see it in the games I play. If they can't make enough money by selling the games they make, then they either should have the decency to go out of business, or reduce the production budget of their games. </div>

    You do realize that advertising's primary goal is to help a company sell the product it creates, right?
  • MonCapitan2002MonCapitan2002 Avatar Captured Full Members
    edited July 2006
    Yes. ?I do not care. ?If they sell advertising in their products. ?Then I will not buy their products and they will not make any money from me. ?I will not purchase gaming software that is saddled with software used to sell advertising to the end user. ?If sales of their products cannot cover the cost of developing them, then they should make fewer products or lower the development budgets of their products.

    It is one thing to use advertising to sell a product. I can understand the logic in using advertising in that fashion. I will not heed the advertisements, but I understand why it is done. What I do not like is when a product is saddled with software designed to sell other products. I should be able to play a game without seeing advertisements for the latest cell phone or newest soft drink. I get enough of that drek in other venues. I do not want it in the games I play. If they pollute their games with advertising, I will not buy any more Square Enix games.



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  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    Would this be a bad time to mention the Coca-Cola ad placement in Parasite Eve 2?



    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • MonCapitan2002MonCapitan2002 Avatar Captured Full Members
    edited July 2006
    I never purchased the game. Is that the only game that had advertisements? If there were others, I may have to reconsider purchasing any future games. In-game advertising is a strong enough issue for me that I would cancel my pre-order of Final Fantasy XII if it is a practise that has extended beyond that game.
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  • FrozenbabylonFrozenbabylon POW! Full Members
    edited July 2006
    If it's not poping up in your face then what does it matter?

    It's just a random coke machine or Cloud holding the Panasonic FOMA P900iV Phone in Advent Children. It doesn't affect the story. And it doesn't really affect you or your subconcious. I don't think `Gee, I need a Coke!` after I run by that Coke machine. And I sure as heck don't think I need to import a Panasonic FOMA P900iV Phone. It's just not a big deal at all.

    But since that's two things that Square has placed products... Well I guess you're going to miss out on a fantastic game and future fantastic games because of something really minute

    I'm not.

    As long as it's not a pop up in my face like Datguy86 said, `Drink Speed!` poping up at crucial moments in the game, it won't affect my enjoyment of the game.

    If the pop up start, Then I'm going to have an issue, But until then. I'll still play Parasite Eve 2a nd run past that Coke machine and enjoy myself a fine game.

    ...<s>And my frosty cold Coke</s>...

    Edit: And just a quick edit. I don't care about product placement in anything. I find the whole thing stupid to worry about. Killzone for PS2 had product placement billboards and stuff for sunglasses. Either BlackFlys or Arnette or something. It was really funny. I loved shooting the billboards. The splintered really well.

    I just don't like that people don't think rationally about this stuff. So sorry if I came off fanboyish or curt. But the point still stands.

    Just think for a second about it. Does it affect you as a person? Does it affect your personal level of enjoyment of the game? If you didn't know it was there and weren't activly seeking it... Would you even care?

    That's the questions you need to ask yourself. If it affects you that much, You might as well sell your Playstation because Sony uses product placement all the time.

    And forget about Microsoft.

    That's just my take on it all. Sorry for the length. Remember people. It's just games. Just games.



  • Duke OtterlandDuke Otterland Banned Banned Users
    edited July 2006
    <div>
    (Slayer of God @ Jul. 13 2006,02:17)</div><div class="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div class="QUOTE">Would this be a bad time to mention the Coca-Cola ad placement in Parasite Eve 2?</div>
    And Atlus sort of placed their logos on vending machines within SMT: Nocturne, though I'm not sure if that'd count sine they weren't advertising a specific product...

    Oh, and Xenosaga Episode I sorta had product placement via emails advertising various Namco games tounge.gif

    I actually don't care at all about product placement in games if they're not overly intrusive.

    As for the delays people complain about, Victor Ireland said it best: "Delays are temporary, and mediocrity is forever."



  • KiralynKiralyn Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    And while it's not RPGs, most of the modern-era racing games (as I understand it) have paid advertising on the billboards and other signs you drive past.....

    /shrug

    (and in those cases, it kinda makes sense. I've always thought it was kinda dumb for games based in a true contemporary setting - racing, Parasite Eve, etc - to have all the expected signage filled with made up "no, I'm not a real product" stuff.)
  • Duke OtterlandDuke Otterland Banned Banned Users
    edited July 2006
    <div>
    (Kiralyn @ Jul. 13 2006,07:29)</div><div class="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div class="QUOTE">And while it's not RPGs, most of the modern-era racing games (as I understand it) have paid advertising on the billboards and other signs you drive past.....

    /shrug

    (and in those cases, it kinda makes sense. I've always thought it was kinda dumb for games based in a true contemporary setting - racing, Parasite Eve, etc - to have all the expected signage filled with made up "no, I'm not a real product" stuff.)</div>
    Product placement in games that take place in a fantasy world would be pretty difficult without seeming out-of-place, though in a modern world, yeah.



  • Red XIVRed XIV Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    I'm quite amazed that there's (so far) more discussion of advertising than patches in this topic. Sure, advertising is games can be annoying, especially if it's something obtrusive. But surely we can agree that skimping on debugging and shipping incomplete games to meet deadlines is much worse.
  • Gades_DestroyGades_Destroy Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    <div></div><div class="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div class="QUOTE">I'm quite amazed that there's (so far) more discussion of advertising than patches in this topic. Sure, advertising is games can be annoying, especially if it's something obtrusive. But surely we can agree that skimping on debugging and shipping incomplete games to meet deadlines is much worse. </div>

    Yes. That is the number one thing that I don't like about PC games. Bugginess can really kill the experience. The best example of this actually comes from a console game: Aidyn Chronicles. The game's world was fun to explore (nice scenery) but the bugs (especially the savegame bugs) killed alot of the experience for me.
  • ZindrazilZindrazil Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    Yeah, I'm a big-time racing gamer, and they all have Ads, but i don't really notice them (in Forza Motor Sports, there is a track with a big can of coke on the side of the road way that i only actually noticed when i crashed). Sports games also have them, and I can easily see them incorporated into the steam-punk rpgs. I have a feeling that most North American gamers won't notice the ads on japanese games anyway, As they will likely be in Japanese. If they write "drink speed" on a sign in japanese text, I'll just think its just a sign for some thing or other. It might get a bit weird if they incorporate logos though (imagine running down an allyway in FFVII:DC only to find the golden-arches at the end).

    I am worried about bugs though. It might not be a big problem on the XBox (Halo2 had a map-pack patch and it was just a matter of installing the data on that disc onto a harddrive) but with the PS2, which doesn't have a harddrive (mine doesn't, anyway) the patch will probably be too large to fit onto a harddrive, so my options are to either play a buggy, mediocre game, or buy a harddrive. that annoys me
  • TheTykeTheTyke Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    The whole principle of the patch thing is stupid. I hope they don't go too far with it, that's all I can say..... I did NOT like all the bugs in FFVIII for PC at all. Random crashes (amplified by the infrequency of "Save Points") made me feel like kicking the computer.

    I love that game, but my gosh, the bugs were terrible. I don't want to see their Playstation games turning out like that.
  • KhisanthKhisanth Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    Wada is going to start Squeenix down the long, slipperly slope that most PC game developers have fallen into the pit from.

    At first they will release games that are mostly tested, but not as extensively as before. A few bugs will come around here and there, so they will just create patches to fix these bugs real quick and that will be that. Game will only have a few minor patches.

    As time goes on, they will do less and less testing on the game, leaving more and more up to patching. The games will essentially released in Beta form, and let the public be their unplayed beta testers!

    While it isn't guaranteed that this will happen, as song PC game manufacturers have avoided it, this is a very real scenario that many developers have fallen into. I just hope square-enix avoids it.
  • naia28naia28 Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    I'm not really thrilled by this idea. I can tolerate ads if they're not disruptive for the game.

    The microtransaction crap is just stupid. I don't want to spend $50+ for a game only to have to pay more later just to experience the whole game.

    If it weren't for Dragon Quest, I'd put S-E on my "breakup" list.
  • ragnarokragnarok Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    Square Enix: the Electronic Arts of Japan...

    I already put up with enough of their buggy software in Final Fantasy 11. I already refuse to buy games at the new $40-50 price point because of the increasing QA problems in a large percentage of games. I'll put up with the mediocre that is Square as of late, but the day I have to wait for a patch to get past a certain part of Final Fantasy 13 because of a crashbug is the day I stop playing anything Square Enix shoves out the door.

    To be honest, I'm just waiting for this release now patch later mentality to send the video game industry into a recession. The sooner it happens the better.

    Why? Let's look at this in a different perspective: the car industry over the last 20 or so years. Why are American automakers in the hole with it comes to car sales? Because only the diehard or the sheep buy their products. The automakers who are at the top now figured out that savvy consumers don't want to buy a product that has to die a couple thousand times and inconvenience a large percentage of their customer base before a problem gets fixed (via recall, the auto industry equivalent of patching a video game). They want to buy a product that is polished and will have very few if any problems. Toyota saw this, stepped up and is king because of it. Same with Honda.

    The video game industry needs Toyotas and Hondas to offset the increasing mediocrity coming from the big dev houses, and as soon as a slide sets in I think we'll get just that.



  • MonCapitan2002MonCapitan2002 Avatar Captured Full Members
    edited July 2006
    <div>
    (Red XIV @ Jul. 13 2006,12:29)</div><div class="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div class="QUOTE">I'm quite amazed that there's (so far) more discussion of advertising than patches in this topic. Sure, advertising is games can be annoying, especially if it's something obtrusive. But surely we can agree that skimping on debugging and shipping incomplete games to meet deadlines is much worse.</div>
    The thing with software patches bother me as well. ?If Square Enix decides to go this route, I will not buy any of their buggy software. ?All games for consoles should be released without any bugs or glitches. ?Games that come with software glitches really piss me off. ?I would rather not see buggy games become a part of the console gaming landscape.
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  • DavisDavis 2 Human 2 Furious Full Members
    edited July 2006
    <div>
    (ragnarok @ Jul. 13 2006,07:43)</div><div class="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div class="QUOTE">They want to buy a product that is polished and will have very few if any problems. Toyota saw this, stepped up and is king because of it. Same with Honda.</div>
    Yet people buy European cars by the boatload...

    Five tons of Flax,
    Davis

    <div>
    (Duke Otterland @ Jul. 12 2006,20:43)</div><div class="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div class="QUOTE">As for the delays people complain about, Victor Ireland said it best: "Delays are temporary, and mediocrity is forever."</div>
    Vicky Eye also ran a company into the ground with that mantra.

    Circuitous Point: Plenty of good companies release good products in a timely manner and they don't even need to be EA-size, just look at Atlus. Hiding behind that statement is indicative that a company has issues behind its doors, not that the public is a bunch of impatient crybabies that want it all now.

    edit: Sorry for the double post. sad.gif

    Five tons of Flax,
    Davis

    Edited by MonCapitan: ?By the power of Grayskull the two posts are merged!



  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited July 2006
    <div>
    (MonCapitan2002 @ Jul. 13 2006,19:10)</div><div class="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div class="QUOTE">The thing with software patches bother me as well. ?If Square Enix decides to go this route, I will not buy any of their buggy software. ?All games for consoles should be released without any bugs or glitches. ?Games that come with software glitches really piss me off. ?I would rather not see buggy games become a part of the console gaming landscape.</div>
    MonCap, are you naive? Software glitches have been part of the console gaming scene for quite awhile now.

    Just off the top of my head, there's the Relm Sketch glitch in FFVI, or the item duplication glitch in the original Wild ARMs.

    As for something recent, Xero recently discovered one in Megaman X8, where if you buy a certain item in the store and you don't have the money to, the game gives you infinite money, so you can buy the whole store if you wanted.



    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • MonCapitan2002MonCapitan2002 Avatar Captured Full Members
    edited July 2006
    I concede that point. What I do not want to see are serious glitches getting into retail copies of games. Then again there was that glitch in Atelier Iris, so I guess I really can't talk since I bought that game and its prequel.
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