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Smoking/Anti-Smoking
The Big Bang
MemberFull Members
I was reading through the news today and came across an article that caught my attention. Apparently, the city of Chicago, IL. is trying to get smoking banned from bars and restaurants completely. I myself, a bar hopper and smoker find this truely offensive. ?
I will admit there are certain places that smoking should not be allowed, public restaurants are a place that should be smoke free. Late night hang-outs(i.e IHOP) should not be smoke free. I've sat at many of these 24 hour establishments drinking cofee,smoking and having some fo the best conversations I've ever had in my life.
I was just curious as what other RPGamer's thought of these new proposed laws.
Feedback please!
I will admit there are certain places that smoking should not be allowed, public restaurants are a place that should be smoke free. Late night hang-outs(i.e IHOP) should not be smoke free. I've sat at many of these 24 hour establishments drinking cofee,smoking and having some fo the best conversations I've ever had in my life.
I was just curious as what other RPGamer's thought of these new proposed laws.
Feedback please!
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Cigarette is a drug, must be banished.
In any case, smoking should be completely banned from all public areas in which it is possible for someone to unwillingly inhale or otherwise be affected by cigarette smoke.
On one hand, as a non smoker, I really dislike being around smokers now. ?My friends all smoke and they stink. ?My little brother smokes and he stinks. ?When I go out drinking at a bar I come home and I stink. ?I can't fathom how I used to smell like that on a regular basis, it makes me gag.
On the other hand as a former smoker, I agree that being at a bar or having coffee late night at Denny's/George Webb's/IHOP without smokes would be inconceivable! ?When I first heard about California's anti-smoking laws, I was actually offended. ?If non-smokers DON'T want to inhale my smoke they wont hang out at a BAR or sit near a SMOKING SECTION! DUH!
Then I thought about it. ?What gives me the right to force harm on another human in a public place, wether it is severely damaging or not. ?I'm not an expert on second hand smoke and I'm pretty sure you don't need to be one to know, if you hang out in a bar, or a restaurant (regardless of designated smoking/non-smoking sections) you WILL inhale an excess of second hand smoke. ?And it's PROVEN that cigarette smoke inhaled 1st or 2nd hand IS DANGEROUS. ?I actually felt guilt about smoking in public places. ?Why am I poisoning these people for a habit that I acknowledge as filthy and damaging.
The issue is, wether or not it's realistic to say smoking is not allowed in ANY public place. ?I think it's pretty ludicrous. ?In Cali they might be able to get away with it, seeing as the weather is (usually?) decent enough that you can step outside and have a smoke. ?In Chicago I couldn't see it happening. ?I live in Milwaukee and if someone at Denny's would have told me a few months ago to go out into near 0 degree temps to have a smoke I would have told them to shove it. ?It could be justified to have smoking not allowed up until a ceratin time at night when all the decent folk clear out and the rabble remain? ( I say that in a nice way, myself being a part of the latter
Sorry for being long winded.
Resterants I understand why they'd ban smoking--my mom may not be the only athsmatic that is allergic to cigaratte smoke. (and I do think there should be a smoking section though. Sheesh, there's such a thing as too far.) But bars? At least provide a smoking section...because I have a very good idea how powerful that urge to light up is. (I've had A LOT of nursing training and they really pushed "don't smoke" in the health classes I took in high school.)
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=Me, and my mom smokes.
I'm all for a total ban on smoking. Not just in public places, but make it illegal. Pot and cocaine and heroin are illegal, and tobacco is just as bad.
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada has been pushing for a total ban on smoking in all public places. And anyone under 18 caught with tobacco products will be fined like $500 or something.
I'm quite proud of that city. If you want to moke, do it in your own home, or at least away from me.
As for having a "smoking area", they dont exist. In most places, the only thing separating smoking from non-smoking sections is a wall about 3 feet high, and a 2 meter gap between it and any walls. You can still see the lit cigarettes in the peoples mouths on the other side of the "barrier".
I give it 20 years, tops, before it is illegal. And I can't wait for that day.
Note that the current law here allows some establishments (notably bars) to allow their patrons to smoke after 9 or 10 PM. And while I personally think that a flat-out smoking ban would be better, I also recognize that the reality of such a law would result in chaos. There's already been some charges laid against some restaurant staff for being at work while patrons were smoking - it's going to court because they claim it's not their job to be policing a bylaw. Much as I agree with the new law, I also agree that the staff were unlawfully charged, as they *aren't* police.
I think the key is education and destroying the image of smoking as cool and glamorous. But the kinds of social changes needed aren't going to happen without some other big social and economic changes - namely changing the influence a Big Money industry has on our social outlook. But now I sound like a damn dirty hippie, so I'll shut up.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I've sat at many of these 24 hour establishments drinking cofee,smoking and having some fo the best conversations I've ever had in my life.
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err.. somehow i think you could have these conversations without smoking.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"IHOP isn't a restaurant? News to me...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
By public restaurants I meant Mcdonalds/Hardees/Burger King. On a side note, the IHOP where im at, nobody ever eats, they just drink coffee and smoke. Occasionally they will get that one old couple that eats
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"err.. somehow i think you could have these conversations without smoking.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This one is a little harder to explain. It somehow just heigtens the mood, maybe its one of those pseudo-intellectual things. I don't know I can't explain it.
-What new laws? I thought attempted suicide put people in mental hospitals.
Smoking=Bystander inhalation=Health deteoriation=Death=Murder
-Last time I checked, ruining someone's health without their permission was illegal, and downright killing them was murder. Even companies spilling harmful chemicals (ruining the health of a community) over time still found the executives in criminal courts.
"Smokers have the right to smoke." That's true, but...
"Non-smokers have the right not to smoke." That's true too, but second-hand smoke isn't easy to avoid. So, where should the laws lean? How about in favour of the fact that destroying one's health (and someone else's) isn't acceptable? Just because it sells well (like drugs) doesn't mean it should be legal (but that's a different issue) .
In the end: any law banning cigarettes or leaning in that direction is good.
As someone who lost too many family members to lung cancer, and someone who has long-term health problems from breathing second-hand smoke, I'm all for smoking bans. However, the problem with making tobacco illegal is that a whole other host of problems will emerge. For example, street tobacco, like street drugs, may be cut by dealers with another additive. Cocaine is sometimes cut with flour or talcum powder in order to stretch it out and sell less real product for the same amount of money. Drugs can also be cut with another cheaper but more dangerous additive. This was the case in my high school in which a batch of drugs sold to oblivious students was blended with a medicine normally given to the mentally ill. The result was a handful of students having near-fatal reactions and ending up in the hospital. While doing drugs is clearly stupid, my point is that illegal tobacco will take on the other problems associated with illegal drugs: violence, robberies, dangerously "cut" products, and so forth. In addition, thousands who work for the tobacco industry will be out of jobs. We must also factor in the cost of keeping tobacco legal: millions of dollars being spent in health care, lawsuits, and buying the products themselves, not to mention the suffering of people who have cancer and the hell their families go through. Overall we've got to weigh both sides before we make a decision. Personally, I think we're better off without tobacco, but that's just me, and I understand that smokers see the issue differently.
I'd also like to comment on the so-called "smoking sections" of restaurants. Sin was right about them being surrounded by flimsy partitions. Often the ventilation is poor as well, which means that I have to inhale someone's smoke while I eat. I think an important first step is to improve smoking sections so that they are in enclosed areas with separate ventilation systems (some states, including my home state of Oklahoma, have laws regulating smoking sections, and some restaurants do this voluntarily). Second, smokers and non-smokers need to respect each other's rights and come together to support these restaurants who do show concern for their patrons.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I think the key is education and destroying the image of smoking as cool and glamorous. ?But the kinds of social changes needed aren't going to happen without some other big social and economic changes - namely changing the influence a Big Money industry has on our social outlook. ?But now I sound like a damn dirty hippie, so I'll shut up.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well said. This hippie agrees with you.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"It somehow just heigtens the mood, maybe its one of those pseudo-intellectual things.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
My grandmother, a smoker with early signs of emphysema, once told me that she and her friends used to practice smoking in front of the mirror. She said they felt so beautiful and glamorous. That image is still prevalent, along with new images of smoking that ties it to rebellion, intellectualism, and even heightened energy levels. Personally, I like the Truth ads that use quirky ways to send the message about the dangers of smoking. I like to seeing the postive false images of smoking countered by the negative realities.
All too true. In all reality recent events have changed thoughts about smoking. ?What happened is my mom showed me a couple of pictures of my grandfather when he was in the hospital for lung cancer. To be honest, that photograph is going to haunt me forever. It's a shame that Truth and iDecide can't put that kind of stuff on ads. Stuff like that would turn heads and make people truely think about the dangers of smoking.
There is a problem with that though: you may not mind for one person, but as you go through life and deal with more and more people who do smoke, you will find at the end that your lungs aren't as good as they could have been. No matter what you do, your health will be compromised by those who smoke. It's unavoidable: eventually you will have to deal with those who smoke, and it will happen enough times in life to affect you.
There is a problem with that though: you may not mind for one person, but as you go through life and deal with more and more people who do smoke, you will find at the end that your lungs aren't as good as they could have been. No matter what you do, your health will be compromised by those who smoke. It's unavoidable: eventually you will have to deal with those who smoke, and it will happen enough times in life to affect you.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm not sure how what you're saying relates to what I said. I didn't say I don't mind for one person -- anyone and everyone in the world can smoke to their lungs' content. What I said was that I don't care, as long as they don't do it around me. If they are on their private property, then I can't say anything. But in public areas that are visited by everyone, then you shouldn't smoke.
Or are you just making the point that my lungs will be harmed by smoke when I'm around people who smoke? Well, uh, no kidding, if you are. Yes, it's unavoidable that I will inhale smoke over the course of my life. But that doesn't mean I can't try to minimize the amount that I inhale. If you can give me a good reason why the habit of smoking should be tolerated in public places, please, tell me. Any attempt to cut down on this habit as a society should be seen as a good thing, in my opinion. I can't think of any reason it should be perpetuated.
Large companies aren't allowed to put chemicals in the air, as there is a limit to it, why should smokers?
Tobacco puts more harmful things into the air than your everage car factory.
I'd rather have a few Nitrogen by-products than formaldhyde, cyanide, uranium, thousands of carcinogens...
My uncle just died of smoking diseases, too. He literally coughed his left lung onto his chest while he slept, or at least little bits of it, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't aslep for all of that.
Isn't that a pretty picture?
I think all you smokers should just sit down one day and ask yourself "Why am I doing this?".
It doesn't taste good, it will kill me, it hurts, I smell awful, my food tastes like crap, I can't smell things worth a damn, people probably avoid me due to the smell, my fingers are turning yellow, as well as my teeth, it will give me wrinkles...
And the good points...
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Well, if anyone can think of any, I'd really love to hear them.
It doesn't taste good, it will kill me, it hurts, I smell awful, my food tastes like crap, I can't smell things worth a damn, people probably avoid me due to the smell, my fingers are turning yellow, as well as my teeth, it will give me wrinkles...
And the good points...
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Well, if anyone can think of any, I'd really love to hear them.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
you forgot the fact that it costs a fortune
i smoke, i know all this crap but it's my choice, i do it in my house by the window, no one complains to me about it and i never give them any cause to.
no one has ever been able to tell i am a smoker by the way i smell so thats not necessarily true, my food tastes fine, it doesnt hurt, i can smell things fine, my fingers are still the colour they always were and my teeth are white.
i cant speak for everyone but i dont suffer any of those things and perhaps you should let people do what they like
When did he ever force someone to stop smoking against their wishes, praytell?
...
Anyway, if you find this new law offensive, do not visit California. Smoking in a restaurant is illegal throughout the stake of California. We do not have a "smoking" section in our restaurants.
Most bars nowadays have voluntarily banned smoking as well. Of the few pool halls I frequent, none of them allow smoking inside.
While I'm sure smokers are probably upset by this, the reasoning is quite simple. Smoking is no longer a "cool" thing to do. Most people consider it to be a disgusting habit, and the effects of cigarettes on the body are well known now. These pool halls aren't banning smoking because they're required to, they're banning smoking because they're losing customers.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thakfully, smokers are quickly becoming a minority in North America. More and more people are realizing it is a stupid thing to do, and aren't doing it.
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Some people are too far hooked, and seriously DON'T want to quit. It's something I see in my friends. The ones who still smoke say they won't quit ever. The mentality that it will just shave the unwanted years off your life. Or they enjoy it more then they feel it is hurting them. Or any other reason. I can't force my ideas into their heads so I let it slide. My best friend's father passed away when he was 12 years old ( my friend was 12, not his father
The thing is, it hasn't worked until now. It's just a false security, as there's frequently nothing preventing the smoke from the smoking section from escaping its invisible prison and tormenting the lungs of those in the non-smoking section. New laws are being proposed because the current system is ineffectual and more people are becoming wary of the serious health risk posed by second-hand smoke.
I'd just like to see a few more limits on it.
And instead of everyone just quitting, maybe we should try harder to make the next generation not start in the first place.
Though that does remind me of my favorite sign that was posted outside my high school. It read "This is a drug-free zone." As if drugs were only illegal on school property.