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Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia Review

Phillip WillisPhillip Willis Certified PolygameistRPGamer Staff
edited November 2008 in Latest Updates
Castlevania has found a nice home on the DS with its first two games. Is this third one the charm, or does it got a few bats in the belfry? Find out here!
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Comments

  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited October 2008
    Haven't played a Castleroid since the GBA Double Pack so I think it's time to check this one out since I missed Portrait of Ruin and Dawn of Sorrow



    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • TyphaonTyphaon Member Full Members
    edited October 2008
    It's alot of fun just be prepared to die on bosses.
    What I have seen and done to achieve my position defies belief. What I am capable of and will be party to in order to retain it would chill your soul.
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited October 2008
    Castlevania II: Simon's Quest wasn't that difficult to solve and you definitely didn't need a copy of Nintendo Power to finish it. I think that most gamers at the time weren't accustomed to the idea of talking to all the townspeople and gathering information. If you did just like many of them instructed you could find all the mansions and secrets fairly easily.

    That aside, I'll be checking out this version on the DS as soon as my friend finishes it.
  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited October 2008
    If I recall correctly Simon's Quest had a pretty terrible localization to the point of giving completely false information to the player about how to handle the various quests. So no, I don't think it would be easy to complete it without any outside help.



    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • Phillip WillisPhillip Willis Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2008
    I had it as a wee lad. Granted, I was young, but I could beat games like Final Fantasy and D&D Champions of Krynn without a problem. Castlevania 1, I remember being fun. Then I got to C2. OMG. I could not figure out what to do. I played for hours, and got very frustrated. I'm used to lots of text and talking to people in my games (There's lots of reading in D&D games of the time, and if you did not read, you could easily get stuck). However, most of the what the people said in C2 just didn't make sense, or were outright lies.

    Much later, I got into retrogaming and decided to revisit this little gem. I still couldn't figure out some things. So, I started looking on-line. I had to read a Gamefaqs guide just to get anywhere. I also watched some video retro reviews (Yeah YouTube.) One guys tore the game up, mostly for aggravating gameplay mechanics (like instant death in water) and the problem with secrets (more on that below.) There was a very well put together video reply by a guy who enjoyed the game growing up. He replayed it to make sure that he gave a well thought out and researched response. His conclusion? Frustrating gameplay mechanics, and even cheap deaths were norms of the time. However, even he had to admit that without a copy of Nintendo Power, you would have a heck of a time working your way through the game because of the many required hidden secrets.

    For example, you have to figure out that the wood stake is used to activate orbs so you can pick them up at the end of levels (which you MIGHT figure out since you supposedly going after Dracula parts and Dracula is killed by a stake.) Then there was the one board where you see nothing but water (which is instant death)..... I jumped into a dozen times before I figured out about equipping the white crystal to see the hidden platform. Then there was a blue lake where you had to equip another type of orb and bend down for a while to see the passage to go on (I never figured that out). And the part where you have to kneel in a certain part, equip something (I don't remember what, now) and wait for a while for a tornado to take you away was just silly. Oh, and don't get me started on the invisible pitfalls... you remember those blocks that you thought were solid ground and you just fell through. They did not look any different, so you had to find them by trial and error like throwing Holy water all over the place to see where it falls through... or just look at your Nintendo Power Guide.

    IMHO, a game should not require hours of trial and error (or a game guide) of any sort to proceed through. It's OK if it is required for bonus items, content, etc. Some people will disagree and state that it adds gameplay value of some sort (by making the game longer if you don't have the guide), but I call it frustrating.
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  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited October 2008
    Castlevania II: Simon's Quest was actually pretty easy and one of the first games I beat. It only took me two days over one weekend to finish it. If you couldn't beat this one I don't know how you could beat something like the original Castlevania, Double Dragon 3, Little Nemo: The Dream Master, Ninja Gaiden I, II, & III, Strider, or any other super hard games because I am telling you this one was a piece of cake in comparison. If you want to talk about really cheap deaths then you should look at some of the games I listed above. I wasn't actually fortunate enough to have a Nintendo Power subscription because I didn't have a credit card or checks whereby I could pay for it at that age and there was no internet nor PCs in the average home for that matter, so I had to figure it out using my head instead of cheat like all the little rich boys.

    There was a lot of running around at first to get my bearings straight but by noting all of the information from the townspeople down in a notebook it was easy to get an idea of where everything was after about 2 hours. Did you write down the all the information in a notebook? If you didn't then I rest my case as to why you had trouble with this game. Older games don't have all the helpful features like map systems or diaries that a player can instantly access like the games of today so gamers had to be more resourceful. I had tons of notebooks filled with clues and information for the old Dragon Warrior and Ultima games too.

    Anyway, after I got the hint about kneeling at Deborah Cliff with the crystal to get the whirlwind to take me away, I figured out that the crystal could do many things if I kneeled in the right places. By the way, you didn't need another crystal for the lake. If you traded for the red crystal as soon as possible, it was the all purpose tool for everything where a crystal was required. Not forgetting to mention that it was free to trade your crystals anyway so why wouldn't you get the red one as soon as you could? Then there was the hint about equipping dracula's heart to reach the one mansion when you ride the ferry, etc. but the information was definitely there if you looked but not thorough like a Dungeons & Dragons game where you are often spoon fed information by the Dungeon Master. Some things like the diamond, holy flame, etc. I admit, I just happened find on accident but later when I talked to the townspeople they actually gave clues about them as well. Also, who didn't figure out that the stakes were used for the orbs and holy water was a good way to check for pitfalls!? You've got to think much simpler about this game than something like Dungeons & Dragons...maybe that's your problem, you're not thinking like a kid.

    After almost 20 years, I still remember my password for this game with everything too. To this day, this game and Super Castlevania IV are my undisputed favorites in the Castlevania series.



  • Phillip WillisPhillip Willis Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2008
    Castlevania II: Simon's Quest was actually pretty easy
    I'm not complaining about the difficulty. As I mentioned before, things like instant death were common back in the day. Hey, I was one of the people who liked TMNT for the NES. It was full of cheap deaths. I don't get discouraged because I die a lot in a game. In C:OoE, I died two dozen time. Most of the time, however, I learned something from those deaths. Whether it was understanding boss patterns better, or learning what skills work best. Moments like that are when C:OoE shines the best. To me, it's what makes a game like Castlevania worth it. Of course, I don't care for super cheap deaths, but that's always been part of older games. I don't discount the game much if there cheap deaths involved (Though I am a little more critical of newer games).
    Quote: wrote:
    After I got the hint about kneeling at Deborah Cliff with the crystal to get the whirlwind to take me away, I figured out that the crystal could do many things if I kneeled in the right places.

    This is what irritates me. I'm glad you got the hint from wherever you got it from, because I didn't see it. Perhaps I missed a villager or a book... but I did not see this at all. (And if you can tell me where NPCs tell you about some of this stuff, let me know) This has nothing to do with thinking like a kid. This has to do with spending HOURS trying every combination of moves, items, etc to get to a required place or objective. Unlike dying due to a truly difficult boss, or some sloppiness on my part, this comes across as a complete waste of my time. Hours, which can be saved by looking at a FAQ or guide. Yes, I agree that once you figure out one crystal, you have a better idea how to handle other things. However, it was a gameplay mechanic that was never explained. Without it, the game would have been much less frustrating. C:OoE has some of those moments. <span class="spoiler">Assuming you can figure it out that some of those villagers are behind breakable walls, having to go back through dozens of areas and hit every wall with a weapon for a required component to make the game proceed is just a poor design decision</span>. Again, take it out, and you allow the gamer to focus on the other gameplay mechanics which are enjoyable.

    BTW, I did figure out the holy water / floor trick in C2. My point is that it made the game more frustrating. Who wants to stop every 2 steps and throw water? Again, take away that game play mechanic, and the game is much more enjoyable.



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  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited October 2008
    I will admit some of these things seem frustrating by today's standards but when I was a kid, Castlevania II: Simon's Quest was like the best game available and there was no possible way my little brain at that time could have comprehended the things you can do in games now. I can go pop in my copy of this game and I will see if I can find that information about Deborah's Cliff for you if you like.
  • Phillip WillisPhillip Willis Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2008
    hahaha... well, they do say that you have to be like a child to understands the wonders of God. Perhaps C2 fits in there somewhere. smile.gif

    I guess we had different childhood experiences. I was a little older than you when I got C2. For those reason I mentioned above, it frustrated me. I could play TMNT all day (Another game that many people say is frustrating), but not C2. Of course, I didn't have Nintendo Power or friends who knew what to do, so that may have been part of my problem.

    Now, I will say (and this applies to both C2 and my opinion of C:OoE) that once you DO know those tidbits that you need to get past those stopping points, <span style="text-decoration:underline">they are very fun games</span>. I will be playing C:OoE again. In fact, this game got me interested enough to buy the GBA games off of Ebay (I already had the other two games). Without those frustrations I mentioned in my review (Which, once you know what they are, become a non issue, just like C2), this game easily would get a 4.0 and might even be close to 4.5. Combat is great, and personally, I think it's refreshing to fight non-boss monsters, like the skeletons or dragon heads, than will kick your tail if you're not careful. As with most reviews, it's all in the text.

    BTW, have you played the GBA games? If so, what did you think of them?



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  • LordKaiserLordKaiser Gaming Freedom Full Members
    edited October 2008
    I thought that this game was like the other 2 Castlevania games for the DS but when I began playing it I notice many differences including the difficulty. I like this game and maybe Konami heard the complaints against the Metroidvanias.



    Never buy a game published by D3 Publisher that is not WKCII. They cheated on their fans by releasing a game that they didn't support not even for a year and they released a rushed translation.
  • Psycho PenguinPsycho Penguin Member Full Members
    edited October 2008
    I just finished Dawn of Sorrow, am near the end of Portrait of Ruin, and started Order of Ecclesia today. Now, I am only like 30 minutes into this one, but I don't like it all that much so far. The girl moves kind of slow, it seems like there's going to be a lot of gimmicky stage designs later on, and I don't like the graphical style. Oh, and attacking costs MP. But, the game is still early enough that I hope it picks up steam later on.

    Also - a villager in Simon's Quest gives you a VERY vague clue about Deborah's Cliff and the crystal kneeling. To the point that I missed it the first time and I knew ahead of time what to do.



  • Phillip WillisPhillip Willis Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2008
    And, in a manner of speaking that's what you run into with OoE. Either vague or no references on certain things that can get you stuck if you have a bunny brain like me.

    I'm going to let the cat out of the bag on the largest thing, so that others do not get hung up on it. Because if you know this, IMHO, the game is much more enjoyable. But, others may enjoy some of that kind of challenge, so read at yer own risk, or just see if you can figure it out on your own. laugh.gif

    <span class="spoiler">At the beginning of the game, you are told that villagers have been kidnapped and are held. Indeed, as you adventure, you will find villagers all over the lands that you visit. Now, when I play Castlevania, I make it a point to check out all side rooms and what not. I found about 10 villagers. I was feeling pretty proud.

    Eventually, you will face their captor. I beat him (he was not as hard as some other bosses). Then, I got a 'bad ending' and a game over. Right afterward, the game showed me two villagers that were still trapped. I could almost make out which of the dozen or so lands they were in just from the pics. However, that did not tell me exactly where they were at.

    Sooo... I went looking all around, and could not find them. It was not until I looked up on some boards that I found that each of them were hidden behind breakable walls (A Castlevania staple.) One of those was in an underwater world, and another was near a waterfall that I thought you could not jump up. (The water forces you down when you try... it wasn't until I read the FAQ that I figured out that A) I need to jump in just the right spot, B) jump to the top, C) fall down to just the right ledge on the other side of the fall, and D) break the side wall which looks normal.

    So, as a reviewer trying to look at this from a gamer perspective is that there is simply nowhere in the game where it tells that finding these people are a requirement to not end up dead after beating the boss. Second, as far as I could tell, there were no clues aside from those very fast visual references as to the whereabouts of those villagers. Finally, unless you played previous games, you would not even know to try to break every well. And, if you used electricity or certain other weapons/skill a lot, you wouldn't find 1/2 of the broken walls anyway. Even if you knew for a fact that they were located SOMEWHERE behind these breakable walls, who wants to switch weapons every few seconds to beat on every single wall?</span>

    /rant. There's a few other examples, but this is the largest. Like I said, it's a very fun game. And once you know a few things that are not explained or mentioned by NPCs or instructions, it's a lot better. With that being said, if you were one of those people who could figure out Simon's Quest without help or hints, you will LOVE this game. And, if you hated Simon's Quest because of it's ambiguity, look at some hints when you get stuck and you will still have a great time.



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  • Psycho PenguinPsycho Penguin Member Full Members
    edited October 2008
    Portrait of Ruin pulled that stuff with the hard-to-find somewhat obscure location of a secret spell you need to cast on a boss to not get a bad ending. And it's REALLY hard to use the spell on them, too.
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited October 2008
    hahaha... well, they do say that you have to be like a child to understands the wonders of God. Perhaps C2 fits in there somewhere. smile.gif

    I guess we had different childhood experiences. I was a little older than you when I got C2. For those reason I mentioned above, it frustrated me. I could play TMNT all day (Another game that many people say is frustrating), but not C2. Of course, I didn't have Nintendo Power or friends who knew what to do, so that may have been part of my problem.

    Now, I will say (and this applies to both C2 and my opinion of C:OoE) that once you DO know those tidbits that you need to get past those stopping points, <span style="text-decoration:underline">they are very fun games</span>. I will be playing C:OoE again. In fact, this game got me interested enough to buy the GBA games off of Ebay (I already had the other two games). Without those frustrations I mentioned in my review (Which, once you know what they are, become a non issue, just like C2), this game easily would get a 4.0 and might even be close to 4.5. Combat is great, and personally, I think it's refreshing to fight non-boss monsters, like the skeletons or dragon heads, than will kick your tail if you're not careful. As with most reviews, it's all in the text.

    BTW, have you played the GBA games? If so, what did you think of them?
    Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was another game that I really enjoyed playing as a kid. Although I was able to get inside the Technodrome every time because I knew a good place to stock up on scrolls for all my characters, I always seemed to have the most trouble in that last corridor prior to entering the room with Shredder. I like to refer to this place as: "The Corridor of Death." I wasn't able to finish this particular title until a couple years after it came out because I didn't fully grasp the different strengths of each character. Unfortunately, this was because as a fan of the cartoons (and especially the Hostess Ninja Turtle Pies for those who remember) I had chosen my favorite Ninja Turtle and I preferred to play with him as much as possible instead of switching like I should have to deal with different enemies in the most effective way.


    As fan of the Castlevania series (with the exception of Castlevania for the Nintendo 64 and some parts in Castlevania: Lament of Innocence), I have generally felt the games have been fairly well made, especially the Game Boy Advance titles. Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance stands out to me as being vaguely similar to Castlevania II: Simon's Quest in some respects but it still managed to give me a breath of fresh air and Castlevania: Circle of the Moon was just a great game overall. Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow was a different experience for me as far as a story goes but it by no means detracted from the game play experience.

    I admittedly prefer playing games on a large screen, but I must concede that the portable Castlevania tiles have come as a surprise and a delight to play in recent years due partly to Konami re-imagining the series in new and innovative ways and by adding interesting game play mechanics. I am really looking forward to playing Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia specifically because I will not be stuck in a castle for the duration of the game and this is one of the biggest reasons why I have enjoyed Castlevania II: Simon's Quest as much as I have. After reading this review of the game, I finally have high hopes that this may in fact be the game to finally dethrone Castlevania II: Simon's Quest from the top of my list as favorite in the series.


    Despite the Castlevania series being hardly free of faults and there are still things that tick me off to no end like the experience point system which actually scales down as your level rises, etc., I expect that this series will continue to be profitable for a long time although I am not entirely gung-ho nor sold on the idea of a Castlevania fighting game.
  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited October 2008
    Despite the Castlevania series being hardly free of faults and there are still things that tick me off to no end like the experience point system which actually scales down as your level rises, etc., I expect that this series will continue to be profitable for a long time although I am not entirely gung-ho nor sold on the idea of a Castlevania fighting game.
    Why is that a bad thing? It forces players to move into harder zones and to quit grinding on easier zones.

    The fighting game is purely Konami seeing what Nintendo, Capcom, and Square-Enix have done and deciding they would like part of the "franchise brawler" pie too.
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited October 2008
    Despite the Castlevania series being hardly free of faults and there are still things that tick me off to no end like the experience point system which actually scales down as your level rises, etc., I expect that this series will continue to be profitable for a long time although I am not entirely gung-ho nor sold on the idea of a Castlevania fighting game.
    Why is that a bad thing? It forces players to move into harder zones and to quit grinding on easier zones.

    The fighting game is purely Konami seeing what Nintendo, Capcom, and Square-Enix have done and deciding they would like part of the "franchise brawler" pie too.
    The reason why it is a bad thing is because when your level becomes high enough, even in the hardest zones you only get 1 experience point so in the end it doesn't matter where you fight because every enemy gives you 1 experience point regardless of the difficulty. When a gamer gets to this point, grinding levels is just beyond ridiculous. This hurts gamers who may not be so good at action-based games in the first place and why scaling an experience point system is not that good of an idea if you are trying to draw new gamers into the franchise who are unaccustomed to the difficulty.

    Although, I must admit, no Castlevania game I have played since the NES era has presented as much of a challenge as the first Castlevania or trying to beat Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse with Sypha Belnades. Then on another note, that is why so many gamers felt alienated from this series back then.


    If Konami gets a piece of the fighting game pie, good for them, but from what I've seen...I don't know if I'm sold on paying that kind of money for this particular game regardless if it has the Castlevania name slapped onto it. What about yourself? Are you going to pay full price for it, the day it's released? Well, at least it looks miles above our old Playstation friend, Ehrgheiz.



  • FeregrinFeregrin Member Full Members
    edited October 2008
    Oh, and attacking costs MP.
    You regain it quickly though, so it shouldn't really be a problem.



  • Phillip WillisPhillip Willis Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2008
    Towards the end, as I got more and more MP through leveling, it did take longer to refill. During the last hour of gameplay, I wanna say it took me something like 4-5 seconds to refill completely. Does not sound like much, but there are some areas and bosses where those seconds can be hard to come by. Most of your major attacks come from hearts. Going back to its roots, this game lets you collect and save hearts which are, in turn, expended to execute special attacks. I found the battle system slightly more enjoyable then recent incarnations.
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  • FrozenbabylonFrozenbabylon POW! Full Members
    edited October 2008
    I'm having a crazy hard time getting into and liking this game. I'm not sure why. I took to the last two games like a duck to water, But I'm not taking to this one at all.
  • HeeHoHeeHo Member Full Members
    edited October 2008
    Really? I'm more interested in this game because of the harder difficulty. Is that what's bugging you?
  • GorneGorne Member Full Members
    edited October 2008
    Simon's Quest was always a favorite of mine as a kid. I never understood why others had problems with it, but I guess I just got the right hints. I had many more problems with Castlevania 1 and 3.

    As for the latest game, I like it so far. I have just unlocked what I think is the final level, so I'll see how it fares for me.
    Why did I have a signature? I never set one before! Ooops...
  • ElrinthElrinth Member Full Members
    edited October 2008
    I really like this game due to the fact you have to switch between weapons very often to be able to most efficiently defeat your foes. And the bosses are great fun. <span class="spoiler">Lurge from Addams Family was awesome, needting to use shield above head.. tho I'm not sure i had the right weapon for him, but I think i used either lance or sword. it was a long hefty battle, tho on my third try on him, I didn't lose any hp except mishap before last hit.</span> I haven't had trouble finding villagers. However I'm a pro Castlevania-player so I know that I should attack every wall, floor and ceiling I see it might be possible to pass through. smile.gif Oh and sometimes you find treasures by random: <span class="spoiler">like when I fell down the waterfall and pressed down by mistake, boy was I in for a surprise smile.gif</span>

    And the heated discussion about Simon's Quest.. Yes I agree, it was very difficult to know what to do and where to throw that holy water and where to duck and which items to equip.

    I'm not sure I finished the game with or without magazine help back in the good old days. But today I'm fairly confident I can finish it without any helps.



    \"Truly, if there's evil out there, it lies within the heart of mankind\" - Edward D. Morrison
  • GlassShardGlassShard Member Full Members
    edited October 2008
    Man, I'm really surprised this didn't score five out of five. It's second only to SotN in my book and I had a blast with it. Figuring out the bosses provided some of the most fun I've had with a game in years. The voice acting was great and so was the localization, the art was stellar, and hell, it's a Castlevania! Of course there are secret but crucial treasures (and people) hidden around and of course there are bad endings! Finding the hidden villagers to continue the true game was a lot more obvious than discovering the inverted castle in SotN.

    Anyway, I loved it to pieces and I'm replaying it now with the unlockable character, who is sexier than... than sex.
  • Phillip WillisPhillip Willis Certified Polygameist RPGamer Staff
    edited October 2008
    It's definitely a different flavor.
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  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited October 2008
    The reason why it is a bad thing is because when your level becomes high enough, even in the hardest zones you only get 1 experience point so in the end it doesn't matter where you fight because every enemy gives you 1 experience point regardless of the difficulty. When a gamer gets to this point, grinding levels is just beyond ridiculous. This hurts gamers who may not be so good at action-based games in the first place and why scaling an experience point system is not that good of an idea if you are trying to draw new gamers into the franchise who are unaccustomed to the difficulty.

    Although, I must admit, no Castlevania game I have played since the NES era has presented as much of a challenge as the first Castlevania or trying to beat Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse with Sypha Belnades. Then on another note, that is why so many gamers felt alienated from this series back then.


    If Konami gets a piece of the fighting game pie, good for them, but from what I've seen...I don't know if I'm sold on paying that kind of money for this particular game regardless if it has the Castlevania name slapped onto it. What about yourself? Are you going to pay full price for it, the day it's released? Well, at least it looks miles above our old Playstation friend, Ehrgheiz.
    My understanding has always been that Castlevania is an action game first, RPG second. Just like in Parasite Eve, if you can't learn enemy AI patterns you will always have a hard time no matter how much grinding you do. Forcing players to quit being wusses and get a move on is good design sense. While I haven't played OoE yet, I imagine if the exp gains are inversely proportional to your level then the experience needed to gain levels is either constant or increases at a much slower rate. Conversely, while the system penalizes conservative players it probably rewards more experienced players and those who are willing to take risks by venturing into zones where they are underleveled. Risk and rewards are a core part of game design. You can't reward a player for turtling or they'll never push themselves.

    Honestly, would you recommend this franchise to a new player who has never played an action-game before? I probably wouldn't, for almost the same I wouldn't recommend a Mega Man (let alone something like Contra) game to someone who has even cut their chops on Mario.

    As for the fighting game... I only own Harmony of Dissonence and Aria of Sorrow. Which is to say I have no real interest in this franchise brawler.

    Lastly, being less defensive in your posts will help you out a lot here. Just some friendly advice.
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • LordKaiserLordKaiser Gaming Freedom Full Members
    edited October 2008
    Money is very hard to find! Not even $25 or $50 bags on candles and stuff. There is only useless coins.



    Never buy a game published by D3 Publisher that is not WKCII. They cheated on their fans by releasing a game that they didn't support not even for a year and they released a rushed translation.
  • TyphaonTyphaon Member Full Members
    edited October 2008
    There are some tricks to get tons of money. With a certain glyph and boosted luck every lamp and candle will give you either 500 or 1k coins.
    What I have seen and done to achieve my position defies belief. What I am capable of and will be party to in order to retain it would chill your soul.
  • MegaLink1MegaLink1 Banned Banned Users
    edited October 2008
    You are spot on here. Castlevania was originally an action game first and foremost. I love this idea below:

    "Forcing players to quit being wusses and get a move on is good design sense."

    Unfortunately that recipe wasn't working too well for Konami in the past so they have adjusted the game experience with RPG elements.

    I totally agree with you coming from my heavy gaming background but from a business standpoint when you are trying to appeal to a broader audience, telling customers who hold the financial future of your company in their wallets to "shove their complaints and get with the program" isn't a good idea nor has it faired well with all those companies who have gone belly up because of it.

    A game is supposed to be fun and if your not having fun, well...you will probably quit playing soon enough and never buy another game in that particular series and sometimes from that developer altogether. Take Demon's Crest for example, the game was beautifully designed but it SERIOUSLY LACKED THE FUN ELEMENT BY EVERY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION and sales of the game reflected that 100%

    "Risk and rewards are a core part of game design."

    We are definitely in the same page here too. I was one of the few people at school who could beat most of these super hard NES games back in the day. However, game companies also run the risk of getting no financial reward if they over-penalize and don't balance things out for those who are making an investment in their financial future either.

    As far as Mega Man (Rockman) goes, I would honestly recommend something like Mega Man 2 far sooner than Super Mario Bros. Even Battle of Olympus despite its fair share of cheap deaths might be a better choice over Super Mario Bros. as far as action games are concerned. Despite Super Mario Bros. being one of my first games, I found it to be much more challenging than some of the other action games available around the same time (not including Ninja Gaiden, Little Nemo: The Dream Master, Strider, or Castlevania of course).


    By the way, who else out there thought the triangle jump (wall to wall jump) on Strider for the NES was one of the worst designed, most unresponsive actions ever to grace a game in the history of gaming? If anyone can do a multiple triangle jump up a wall, drop back down, and repeat the process like 20 times without ever screwing up on this game then I will personally crown them the ultimate gamer of the world.



  • NekojinNekojin Member Full Members
    edited October 2008
    I'm surprised this didn't score higher, just from reading the review it sounded like there were only a couple minor complaints. 4.0 or 4.5 material, to me. To be honest, I can't relate to the 'not finding all the villagers' because I DID find all the villagers the first time through. To me, in a Castlevania game, it's common sense that if an area is hard to get to and doesn't have much in it, there's going to be a breakable wall or something.

    Furthermore, the difficulty in this game is refreshing. While many of the bosses are HARD the first time, they all (as classic CV bosses should) follow distinct rules of behavior. You recieve a medal if you beat a boss without taking a hit, and I'm proud to say I have every medal in the game. I recently started a Hard Mode run with Lv1 cap, which is EXTREMELY hard, and I'm loving it.

    Yes, the gameplay is a bit different than other CV games, but I don't think it should be scored IN COMPARISION to them, but on the merits of the game itself. To me, it should have been a half point or point higher.
  • FrozenbabylonFrozenbabylon POW! Full Members
    edited October 2008
    Yes, the gameplay is a bit different than other CV games, but I don't think it should be scored IN COMPARISION to them, but on the merits of the game itself. To me, it should have been a half point or point higher.
    Isn't the point of a review to score it in comparison to games that are most like it, in this case, games in the exact same series? It makes sense that one would compare the Castlevania games with one another, since they're all, you know... Castlevania games... and up until now, all had very similar elements in design.

    That being said... I do NOT like the super hard OMG difficulty. I've been playing the game off and on for near a week now and I still can't get past that stupid crab boss (Don't bother trying to give me a strategy, I keep trying the ones I'm told without any luck.). So I'm honestly to the point of just giving up and tossing the stupid game in the trash. That's not good game design to me. Difficulty for the sake of difficulty is frustrating and stupid. A lot like Ninja Gaiden on the xbox. People say it's skill based, But when you have to dump a lot of time into just figuring out just how to kill the normal enemies and because of it you die constantly. It's just frustrating.

    I feel like they should have had more difficulty modes besides hard and super-hard (Easy, Normal, Hard, etc) in the game for people who'd WANT to play this game like the past 7 freaking Castleroids. Because that's exactly what I wanted when I started playing and that's exactly what I'm not getting.

    And now, Because of the high difficulty, I'm probably not going to go back to the game and just move on to something else like I did eventually with Ninja Gaiden.



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