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Final Fantasy XV could be an Action-RPG

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  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited November 2011
    shoptroll wrote: »
    Paging Wheels in 3...2...1....

    Yes the Maestro seems to have been quiet of late, I could easily see him working on a glorious FFXV, I could even see it being action based after his work on the Crystal Chronicles series.

    The possibilities are endless (and glorious)
    omegabyte wrote: »
    I call BS on that. There's no way you beat the game like that. You might have been able to get away with the first 5 or 6 chapters that way, but late game and end game? Not a bloody chance.

    I second this, not buying that.
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  • NightfoxNightfox Member Berkeley, CAFull Members
    edited November 2011
    omegabyte wrote: »
    I call BS on that. There's no way you beat the game like that. You might have been able to get away with the first 5 or 6 chapters that way, but late game and end game? Not a bloody chance.

    I am sorry, I meant 3, though I didn't use Synergists until chapter 11. Aside from the Eidolon battles where you are required to use a specific tactic within a certain time frame, I could get all the way to the end of the game with the same pattern of Buff - Attack <-> Heal (as needed), including the bosses. My team was always Lightning, Sazh, and Hope when we were allowed to pick them using Medic, Synergist x2 followed by Commando, Ravager x2 interchanged with Medic x 2 Synergist. If I couldn't keep up with healing, I just used my summon to revive everyone, it always turned the battle in my favor. Sentinel was completely useless to me, Saboteur was an afterthought when I got tired of the same thing. If you don't believe me, then don't, if you like and had fun with the game I never said you or anyone couldn't. If my strategy was inefficient, then I just didn't care because I still was winning the battles. It's not important that I do like it and I'm not here to convince anyone otherwise, and lastly I didn't want to start a fight. My point is not everyone legitimately agrees that XIII is all that, and I may be in a minority, but it doesn't make my opinion void.
    http://www.shadowdawngenesis.com - follow progress on the upcoming RPG series Shadowdawn on Xbox Live Indie Games and PC (and wherever else we can take it)
  • JormungandJormungand Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Macstorm wrote: »
    ...FFXII was Matsuno...
    Fixed that for you. ;)
    ...I have to wonder who else is there to make FFXV besides Kitase?
    I've said it before on these forums, but I think it bears repeating: Takashi Tokita!
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited November 2011
    Jormungand wrote: »
    Fixed that for you. ;)
    Oops. Had Xenosaga Epi. 1's OST playing while typing that. ><
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited November 2011
    Jormungand wrote: »
    I've said it before on these forums, but I think it bears repeating: Takashi Tokita!

    NEVER! His talents are best spent on a remake for Parasite Eve for the PS3...or at least another game in the series that isn't a spin-off like The 3rd Birthday.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    shoptroll wrote: »
    Given the number of trends/phases the industry has gone through I really doubt it's going to be Action RPGS All the Time (TM).

    Remember how everyone thought the interactive FMV games of the 90's were the future? Myst was the future of gaming? Casual games were going to take over last decade? iPhone/social games are going to wreck the current decade?

    All things pass, and I never suggested that ARPGs would be unassailable for all time. Perhaps menu based combat will even come into vogue again, but for now ARPGs are the future.

    I'd be totally fine with the series going ARPG, as long as the rest of the aspects revert to you know... Final Fantasy again.

    I agree with this 100% - I just want the series to be captivating again. If SE had scrapped menu based combat a decade ago then I probably would have been shattered, but today there are too many things wrong with FF to get hung up on the combat.
    Considering that FFXI was Tanaka, FFXII was Matsuno, and FFXIV was Tanaka again... I have to wonder who else is there to make FFXV besides Kitase? Dare I say...Kawazu?

    There's also team Nomura (though he's suggested that they might be working on KH3), and the Type-0 team - but I think that team Kitase is much more likely to get the gig.
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  • ClixClix Former Listmaster Full Members
    edited November 2011
    ...I kind of hope it's not Team Kitase. They are my least favorite team at this rate. Plus, I would imagine, knowing SE, FFXV is half-way through development at this point. Someone is working on it. They did recently get back Matsuno, but I doubt they would give him another FF without massive stipulations, and he may not even dare accept that maddening challenge once more. ...Hey, Kawazu hasn't done FF since FFII, so I'd be up for something massively different (I don't count him wrapping up FFXII as legit). ...Then again, I am one of the thousand people in the entire universe that thought FFII was one of the best Final Fantasy games.
  • MacstormMacstorm Ysy St. Administrators
    edited November 2011
    Clix wrote: »
    They did recently get back Matsuno
    You talking about for Tactics Ogre? He's now with Level-5 making part of Guild 01, unless you've heard something even more recent.
    "The universe is already mad. Anything else would be redundant."
    Twitter @FinalMacstorm
  • ClixClix Former Listmaster Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Oh. Nevermind then. BTW, did quick research on the major directors of the series still floating around:

    1. Kitase - He and Motomu just finished up XIII and XIII-2. We (hopefully) won't hear from them until FFXVI, next generation.
    2. Nomura - Booked for the next five years with VS XIII and then (finally) continuing the numbered Kingdom Hearts series.
    3. Tokita - Hasn't actually worked on a numbered FF since IV, though he was in charge of The After Years. Not sure if he has any side projects right now. Might be interesting to put him into play, especially since IV is a well-regarded entry.
    4. Hiroyuki - Last seen for the main series wrapping up XII after Matsuno left. Prior to that, he directed IX. Wouldn't mind him either.
    5. Kawazu - Basically designed II and is kind of the black sheep of directors of SE. He's probably too dangerous of a wild card: With a FF-budge, he could easily make the most innovative entry ever or... complete crap. ...It's like calling in Nick Cage to save the day.
    6. Kotomo - Probably sacked thanks to XIV's launch. FFXI also got better after he started to work more on XIV, so maybe it's a good thing we won't likely hear from him again. Hearing good things about his replacement, Yoshida, but that poor soul won't be free for a new project for half a decade.
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Clix wrote: »
    ...I kind of hope it's not Team Kitase. They are my least favorite team at this rate. Plus, I would imagine, knowing SE, FFXV is half-way through development at this point. Someone is working on it. They did recently get back Matsuno, but I doubt they would give him another FF without massive stipulations, and he may not even dare accept that maddening challenge once more. ...Hey, Kawazu hasn't done FF since FFII, so I'd be up for something massively different (I don't count him wrapping up FFXII as legit). ...Then again, I am one of the thousand people in the entire universe that thought FFII was one of the best Final Fantasy games.

    I imagine that the planning of XV has been in progress for a while now, but SE is juggling so many Final Fantasy balls at the moment that I don't see how they could have made significant progress in making the game - unless SE once again strip Nomura of his VSXIII personel in order to have them work on this ...
    3. Tanaka - Hasn't actually worked on a numbered FF since IV, though he was in charge of The After Years. Not sure if he has any side projects right now. Might be interesting to put him into play, especially since IV is a well-regarded entry.

    Tanaka served as producer on XIV, I doubt that has earned him any plaudits within the company. I would imagine that his next title will be a lower tier handheld game.
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  • ClixClix Former Listmaster Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Wait... I meant Tokita, not Tanaka. Sorry. I'll edit that.
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited November 2011
    Clix wrote: »
    5. Kawazu - Basically designed II and is kind of the black sheep of directors of SE. He's probably too dangerous of a wild card: With a FF-budge, he could easily make the most innovative entry ever or... complete crap. ...It's like calling in Nick Cage to save the day.

    I don't think that's completely fair, he's made some strange games and sales duds, but he also was in charge of some hits, and a long running series that's been popular (in Japan). Besides they'd never let him do anything too crazy for a main series FF game.
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  • NightfoxNightfox Member Berkeley, CAFull Members
    edited November 2011
    Wheels wrote: »
    I don't think that's completely fair, he's made some strange games and sales duds, but he also was in charge of some hits, and a long running series that's been popular (in Japan). Besides they'd never let him do anything too crazy for a main series FF game.

    I'd love to see him take on a new FF main game, it'd definitely keep people guessing at the very least. :)
    http://www.shadowdawngenesis.com - follow progress on the upcoming RPG series Shadowdawn on Xbox Live Indie Games and PC (and wherever else we can take it)
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    IMO Kawazu only knows how to make rubbish. I doubt they'd but him on a numbered FF, his appeal seems to be predominantly niche.
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  • JagdJagd Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    I just don't understand why SE feels the need to mix up every good formula they have. Final Fantasy was doing doing well as a turn based single player game. So what do they do? Spend tremendous amounts of money converting the franchise into an MMO world because WOW happens to be doing well. Now, the series feels diluted with two online titles- and they are looking at changing the formula again?

    If they want an action RPG- make a badass new Mana game- but they won't do that, because the name Final Fantasy alone will sell units. Sad

    Funny, you should say that considering only FFI-III and X are the only ones which are actually turn-based. ATB doesn't have turns and is really just pseudo real-time system.

    Anyway, at this point it's really too early to be talking about FFXV. At best the "Action RPG" idea, is just one of many that being tossed around.
    Clix wrote: »
    Well, kind of. The VIII team went to work on FFX. Then FFX-2. Then FFXIII. It's obviously not the same team due to the passage of 10 years but similar build. It's Team Kitase.

    This is inaccurate actually. There's no "Team Kitase" to begin with and many staffers on FFVIII have worked FF from IV-X. Kitase is simply a creative lead that has headed some projects (notably FFVI, VII and VIII). Furthermore FFVIII is definitely isn't the only FF to lock you out areas due to the plot. FFIV, VII and IX did as an example.
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    @Jagd: I think a lot of people confuse turn based combat with menu based combat.
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  • tootbrushtootbrush Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Jagd wrote: »
    This is inaccurate actually. There's no "Team Kitase" to begin with
    If things haven't changed too much since X-2 was released, he is still heading Product Development Division 1, so it's not incorrect to say "Team Kitase". There are probably many sub-teams, however, due the entire department handling Fabula Nova Crystallis and Kingdom Hearts. And who knows what other departments were sucked into FFXIII's, Type-0's and vsXIII's development hells.

    Personally, I'm hoping Division 4 (FFTA, FFXII) still exists and Hiroyuki Itou has been leading FFXV development there. Hence his silence over the past 4 years.
  • flamethrowerflamethrower Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    I think that the writing has been on the wall for a while now. XII and XIII did their best to hide their ATB mechanics behind fast paced automated action...
    And I think the Grandia series does this well too. It was mentioned in Boyd's "Ultimate JRPG" article.
  • JagdJagd Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    tootbrush wrote: »
    If things haven't changed too much since X-2 was released, he is still heading Product Development Division 1, so it's not incorrect to say "Team Kitase". There are probably many sub-teams, however, due the entire department handling Fabula Nova Crystallis and Kingdom Hearts. And who knows what other departments were sucked into FFXIII's, Type-0's and vsXIII's development hells.

    Personally, I'm hoping Division 4 (FFTA, FFXII) still exists and Hiroyuki Itou has been leading FFXV development there. Hence his silence over the past 4 years.

    The problem with this is that FF teams are not static, staff members are shuffled from game to game. It's not like only FFIX or, FFVII people worked on this game or, that game. Kitase himself is really just a manager nowadays so he isn't leading anything.

    BTW, Type-0 was never in development hell.
    @Jagd: I think a lot of people confuse turn based combat with menu based combat.

    Yeah, see it a lot. I think the "Wait" option and fact the characters are standing in lines tend to fool people.
  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Jagd wrote: »
    BTW, Type-0 was never in development hell.

    It kinda was. Type-0 and 3rd Birthday were both slated to be cell phone games and were announced back around 2005-2006 and then were retooled for the PSP once they got Crisis Core out the door. Approx. 5 years of development time is development hell, especially with a platform change.
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • JagdJagd Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Yeah, but what I mean is unlike FFXII and XIII there weren't internal problems like miscommunication between workers and such keeping the game from release. IIRC, Type-0's production really didn't kick into gear until 2008 due to Tabata needing to finish T3B and CC, so work on it was at a minimum.

    The game really took 3 years according to him.
  • AiddonAiddon Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    meh, wouldn't be the stupidest thing Swuare's ever done. Since the series has been a rotting zombie for awhile now ya might as well go insane.
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited November 2011
    Aiddon wrote: »
    meh, wouldn't be the stupidest thing Swuare's ever done. Since the series has been a rotting zombie for awhile now ya might as well go insane.

    one love it or hate it game and one bad mmo = rotting zombie for awhile? (the love it or hate it game of course only selling a cool 5 million or so). Yes, rotting zombie...
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  • MaudrenMaudren i can post! thanx paws! Full Members
    edited November 2011
    What I don't like is what western RPGs are doing. Usually the dungeons themselves are not actually very complex. Instead the whole game leaves you aimless and let's you do just about everything. This can be a bit disturbing especially if the game doesn't really clearly show you a path. I don't mind branching path like "Do you want to be evil? Yes/No", that's great, but "I'll put you in this village and now you can do whatever." is what doesn't give me enjoyment.

    Ok you know what, I've seen you post stuff like this before at least a few times, and now I feel I have to say something. Opinions are opinions, but flat out falsehoods are annoying as hell.

    I can only assume you are refering to bethesda games, since they're the only ones currently making the types of open world rpgs that you're "describing", so let's get a few things straight;

    Bethesda has never, EVER, created an "aimless" rpg that "puts you in this village and now you can do whatever", and do you know why? Because there's thing all Bethesda games have called...wait for it...THE MAIN QUEST. And do you know what these main quests do? They set you on a very specific, narative quest line that pertains to the main events that happen in the game. They are extremely easy to follow, go from point A to point B quest lines that require you to perform very basic talk to this person, kill this person, collect this item etc etc tasks, like every other RPG. At NO TIME during the main quest lines are you ever "Aimless", you always have a specific task to do.

    Now, how do those games encourage exploration off the beaten path that are non main quest related? Why, they usually send you to these places called "towns" (these are common in rpgs), and in those towns, you have the CHOICE to interact with npcs (non player characters, just in case you don't know) and these guys can usually give you quests, and these quests sometimes take you to other new places, and these new places may also have more of these weird quest giving npc guys, which will encourage you to further explore unexplored areas of the game, and each quest tells you where to go and/or what to do, OR you have the choice to ignore all of this, and make the game as linear as you like by following the main quest line.

    Point is, you are never lost, aimless, or directionless, as you seem to imply, in open world rpgs. There is always a clear path for your character to follow from the very beginning of the game, should you choose to ignore exploration of the game's world, and all of the additional, non main quest related content it offers.
    sup?
  • Sharkey360Sharkey360 Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    I know a few JRPG fanatic friends who each admitted that they cried for joy and emotions over Final Fantasy VII.

    Now they feel like crying over the idea that FFXV could be an action RPG.
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Wheels wrote: »
    one love it or hate it game and one bad mmo = rotting zombie for awhile? (the love it or hate it game of course only selling a cool 5 million or so). Yes, rotting zombie...

    Uh, you do realise that a great many of the people who hated FFXIII also bought the game, don't you?
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  • NergalNergal The Don Full Members
    edited November 2011
    There hasn't really been a FF title with a battle system I couldn't get into, so count me among those who don't mind as long as the stuff around the battle system is good.
  • Rya_ReisenderRya_Reisender Solipsist Snowflake Full Members
    edited November 2011
    Maudren wrote: »
    Ok you know what, I've seen you post stuff like this before at least a few times, and now I feel I have to say something. Opinions are opinions, but flat out falsehoods are annoying as hell.

    I can only assume you are refering to bethesda games, since they're the only ones currently making the types of open world rpgs that you're "describing", so let's get a few things straight;

    Bethesda has never, EVER, created an "aimless" rpg that "puts you in this village and now you can do whatever", and do you know why? Because there's thing all Bethesda games have called...wait for it...THE MAIN QUEST. And do you know what these main quests do? They set you on a very specific, narative quest line that pertains to the main events that happen in the game. They are extremely easy to follow, go from point A to point B quest lines that require you to perform very basic talk to this person, kill this person, collect this item etc etc tasks, like every other RPG. At NO TIME during the main quest lines are you ever "Aimless", you always have a specific task to do.

    Now, how do those games encourage exploration off the beaten path that are non main quest related? Why, they usually send you to these places called "towns" (these are common in rpgs), and in those towns, you have the CHOICE to interact with npcs (non player characters, just in case you don't know) and these guys can usually give you quests, and these quests sometimes take you to other new places, and these new places may also have more of these weird quest giving npc guys, which will encourage you to further explore unexplored areas of the game, and each quest tells you where to go and/or what to do, OR you have the choice to ignore all of this, and make the game as linear as you like by following the main quest line.

    Point is, you are never lost, aimless, or directionless, as you seem to imply, in open world rpgs. There is always a clear path for your character to follow from the very beginning of the game, should you choose to ignore exploration of the game's world, and all of the additional, non main quest related content it offers.
    Granted, aimless might have been the wrong word, but it will be hard to explain it otherwise. Also I don't know Bethesda, but there are several games that don't really have a main plot as in a JRPG. The ones I played for example were Might & Magic IV+V, Baldur's Gate 2 and lately I gave them a try again by trying out Mass Effect 1&2. Might & Magic and Baldur's Gate are truely completely aimless, at least up to the point where I got bored with them. As for Mass Effect, while you have something like a main quest going on, you won't really follow it most of the time. Plus in Mass Effect 2, the main quest just seemed like a bunch of sidequests chaining together (finding members). Plus the game still gives you lots of sidequests that are just annoying and disturb the plot flow a lot.

    To get back to topic: The main reason I quit Mass Effect however is that it doesn't have a good battle system. I need a separate battle screen to actually enjoy a game. Only action RPGs I really enjoyed were Secret of Mana-type games and Ys. It's certainly nothing JRPGs should copy from western RPGs.
  • shoptrollshoptroll Have towel will travel Full Members
    edited November 2011
    The ones I played for example were Might & Magic IV+V

    Did you read the manual? I've only played MM2, but it's pretty clear in the manual what the main quest is. Those games aren't really hand-holdy and don't signpost the plot at all.
    Plus in Mass Effect 2, the main quest just seemed like a bunch of sidequests chaining together (finding members).

    Back half of FFVI (and FFV to a lesser degree).
    The main reason I quit Mass Effect however is that it doesn't have a good battle system. I need a separate battle screen to actually enjoy a game. Only action RPGs I really enjoyed were Secret of Mana-type games and Ys. It's certainly nothing JRPGs should copy from western RPGs.

    Is it that you need a separate screen or do you need menus? I think there's a difference here. Because games like Kingdom Hearts and Mana have "seperate screens" they just mask it very well. Same with Mass Effect when you peel back the layers.
    So long & thanks for all the fish!
  • WheelsWheels RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited November 2011
    Uh, you do realise that a great many of the people who hated FFXIII also bought the game, don't you?

    what's your point? I would hope they bought it or they'd have no basis to complain about the game.
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