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Mass Effect 3 Ending Clarified for Free

24

Comments

  • TGBarighmTGBarighm Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Well, we got the DLC. And it's free. I don't know why we're still talking about it. I'm more interested to know how EA managed to convince MS to make the DLC free. They must have paid some fee or something.
    I can guarantee Uwe Boll has "artistic vision", but I doubt any of us would be appalled if he actually listened to feedback and tried making a GOOD movie.

    Well, saying he hates gamers and then challenging his critics to a fight in a boxing much just for an excuse to beat someone up certainly didn't help.
  • He Who LurksHe Who Lurks AWESOME! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    This is a knee jerk reaction to a bunch of whiny, entitled cry babies. It sets a precedent that if you winge loud enough, a company will balk and change a perfectly good game to suit a vocal minority. This is the silliest, most absurd thing I have ever seen in gaming.

    +1

    I'd much rather they use their time & energy into actually fixing bugs and such with the game. I still can't import my face from ME 1&2, I still can't get the 5000 or even 4000 EMS needed to get the "best" ending without playing multiplayer (which I am not going to ever do, and couldn't even if I wanted to). I like the game overall, but there's a lot more wrong here than "wah the endings are A B C and all teh same"
    I'm He Who Lurks, and I'm AWESOME!
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited April 2012
    The fact that they're fixing the ending and not the various mechanical issues kind of validates the whole "squeaky wheel gets the grease" thing. Maybe we should send Bioware a cupcake for every planet we have to scan in order to get the "good" ending.
  • Anna Marie PrivitereAnna Marie Privitere Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2012
    They didn't eat the cupcakes.
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited April 2012
    Paws wrote: »
    They didn't eat the cupcakes.

    What a waste of good cupcakes...did they at least give them to somebody who would?
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    100% on your side there, Frozen. BioWarEA have turned into something even worse than George Lucas, and nothing good can come out of design by committee for ME, or indeed any artistic endeavor.

    Rebo, no one's saying this was a great exercise, far from it. I just hope that EA doesn't get the idea that it should let fans become directly involved in story development. I would have rather the lessons here been taken toward a new game instead of further embarrassing BioWare and making Mass Effect as a franchise even less viable. Again, it's one thing to say "EA and Bioware peed it away and I'm not buying anything from them until they show they can do better." I doubt anyone would argue that point, and I don't disagree: I share it. However, to demand a new ending, as though you were part of the group that spent years making this game, reeks of a baby crying for its bottle. As for Fallout 3, there wasn't any difference in the "ending" cinematic of that game, other than a gameplay related inclusion, and while it didn't exactly fit with the DLC seamlessly, it wasn't exactly like you were given a nice, happy ending. Hell, the issue at the time with Fallout 3 was that it ended at all, not how it ended. Purely a mechanical issue, especially for those who were at the point of no return in the main story but would have liked to have gone back and played the earlier DLCs (Wanna play Operation: Anchorage, but you're near the end? Start over!). This is different.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Hell, the issue at the time with Fallout 3 was that it ended at all
    That's just how Bethesda spun the whole thing later. There was a whole load of backlash over the ending because Bethesda promised a million gazillion endings, when in reality it had about three. And they were all clich
  • Confessor RahlConfessor Rahl Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    To be honest, I have to know, how do you tell what is a vocal minority and what isn't when it comes to a game this big? For all we know the people complaining could have been the vocal majority. By the way, I think your argument for setting a precedent to changing the game to suit a vocal minority died years ago, when DLC was first introduced in the gaming market.

    I'm not making an argument. Read my post again. It's a statement.

    The game had a story. The story was finished. Fans whined because they didn't like what they got. Bioware defended itself. Fans continued to whine. Bioware went back and decided to create material the appease said fans. This is ridiculous to me. It isn't like they had planned to release an epilogue DLC. Please don't respond with "how do you know that?" I don't, it is conjecture based on the events that have transpired since the game's release. This is a direct result of a bunch of squealing children (regardless of age) not liking what the company created, and stomping their foot until they got what they wanted. It's a slap in the face of a multi-year effort on behalf of a huge group of people, and it saddens me to see their work treated in such a disrespectful way. Regardless of the fact that this is optional, it is only here because of pure, complete absurdity.

    One day, I hope one of you puts out a work of art, A book, A movie, A game, whatever... and some other internet toolbox comes around and says he doesn't like it and you have to change it because it bothered somebody and other people jumped on the bandwagon. See how you like it then.

    I wish this with every ounce of vigor I've got.
    "Back when FF9 was coming out. People were rejoicing because it was actually a fantasy game and not a sci-fi game like 7 and 8. It's hilarious in modern context, with everyone wanking themselves to dehydration at the thought of a FF7 remake."
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    That's just how Bethesda spun the whole thing later. There was a whole load of backlash over the ending because Bethesda promised a million gazillion endings, when in reality it had about three. And they were all clich
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Not compared to the other, proper Fallout games they weren't. In general making the ending depend on a choice you make at the very end of the game is a really bad idea and I can't believe developers are still doing it consider how vocal everyone is about how much they hate it.
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Not compared to the other, proper Fallout games they weren't. In general making the ending depend on a choice you make at the very end of the game is a really bad idea and I can't believe developers are still doing it consider how vocal everyone is about how much they hate it.

    In this we are in agreement. Then again, game developers do lots of crazy things....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited April 2012
    The real problem is that developers don't consider the end of a game important. Statistically, most gamers never finish the games they start. Therefore, rushing out the ending theoretically makes sense because most of your audience won't get that far.

    EA and BioWare's miscalculation was assuming that would hold true in ME3. Which is a bit of a problem because most of the people are buying the game because they intend to finish it - and quickly. So it's sad to see that wasted here.

    As for the fans, well, again, BioWare promised something they didn't deliver - and then asked the fans to spend more money after the fact. Once again, if BioWare hadn't already invited the fanbase to make their voices heard ("The fans are writing the ending" was stated even BEFORE the game came out!), this wouldn't be a problem. The nature of games has changed in the digital age and we don't have to accept that something that sucks on release has to stay sucky. If game developers continue to use "we can patch it after release" as an excuse to not follow through on their QA work, to cut content with the intent to charge later, and to turn out unfinished products with the expectation of charging full price and then adding the rest later, they can darn well accept that their customers are going to get a lot more vocal about what content they want after release. And that goes for the rest of the industry too.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Well, the biggest problem with ME3 was trying to be all games to all people. I think we all cringed hearing EA talking about getting some of the CoD fanbase to try the game. The problem is that we can't expect every game to be for everyone, and EA needs to realize that to avoid mistakes like this in the future. You can't tell me that the resources that were moved to make the multiplayer or the shooter-only mode or all the other superfluous crap that EA was hoping would help the game find broader appeal didn't lead to the rush at the end. Course that's what happened. They can't expect ME to appeal to the CoD crowd any more than they can expect Madden to appeal to the ME crowd, and resources need to be focused accordingly.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • Confessor RahlConfessor Rahl Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Well, the biggest problem with ME3 was trying to be all games to all people. I think we all cringed hearing EA talking about getting some of the CoD fanbase to try the game. The problem is that we can't expect every game to be for everyone, and EA needs to realize that to avoid mistakes like this in the future. You can't tell me that the resources that were moved to make the multiplayer or the shooter-only mode or all the other superfluous crap that EA was hoping would help the game find broader appeal didn't lead to the rush at the end. Course that's what happened. They can't expect ME to appeal to the CoD crowd any more than they can expect Madden to appeal to the ME crowd, and resources need to be focused accordingly.

    There is great and powerful wisdom in this post!
    "Back when FF9 was coming out. People were rejoicing because it was actually a fantasy game and not a sci-fi game like 7 and 8. It's hilarious in modern context, with everyone wanking themselves to dehydration at the thought of a FF7 remake."
  • FrozenbabylonFrozenbabylon POW! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    As much fun as I've had in the ME3 multiplayer, I agree with what Masterchief says.
  • TheDoomhammerTheDoomhammer Prod with the Prod Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Wasn't ME3's multiplayer done by one of the other Bioware studios?

    Also I just realized that in the
    Spoiler:
    Synthesis
    ending you are literally
    Spoiler:
    creating 'Bioware.'
    Very funny, Mac.
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Awesome post Masterchief.

    +1
    sig.gif

    28 years of gaming and still going strong
    and now a mostly annoyed Father with first son. And now a father again to a second son :D

    Winner of the 2015-2016 Fantasy gaming Pool
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Wasn't ME3's multiplayer done by one of the other Bioware studios?

    Yep. It was actually supposed to be a multi-player spin-off title, separate from the main series, but that got cancelled and slammed into ME3.

    Oh, and for thsoe crying about "artistic integrity", BioWare put up an FAQ on the new content stressing very hard that the new content is only intended to build on the current endings, not add new endings or remove the existing ones. And they said "artistic vision" or some form of it like twice.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Just so I know we are all on the same page when it comes to the artistic integrity of Bioware, Mass Effect 3 is a game where you can buy armour with the Dragon Age logo on it.
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Dragon Age = Bioware, thus artistic integrity intact.
    sig.gif

    28 years of gaming and still going strong
    and now a mostly annoyed Father with first son. And now a father again to a second son :D

    Winner of the 2015-2016 Fantasy gaming Pool
  • Confessor RahlConfessor Rahl Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Just so I know we are all on the same page when it comes to the artistic integrity of Bioware, Mass Effect 3 is a game where you can buy armour with the Dragon Age logo on it.

    Right. Let's just forget their multi-year career spanning countless mind blowing games. No artistic merit whatsoever for this company.
    "Back when FF9 was coming out. People were rejoicing because it was actually a fantasy game and not a sci-fi game like 7 and 8. It's hilarious in modern context, with everyone wanking themselves to dehydration at the thought of a FF7 remake."
  • FrozenbabylonFrozenbabylon POW! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Plus, I don't see what the issue is with a call back to a previous game by the same company. Seems like a really petty thing to cite. Especially since it was free in ME2 for those who had DA: O and in ME3 you can buy it with in-game currency, not actual money.

    Next, you'll be pissed off that Tali calls her drone Chiktikka vas Paus.
  • DravDrav A Serious Man Full Members
    edited April 2012
    I'm just saying that not everything that makes it into Bioware's games is part of some sort of grand artistic vision that will now be forever sullied by this extended ending. If Bioware were seriously concerned about that sort of thing, they would not advertise other games within their own game, use in-game DLC hooks etc.
  • King Jowy XXIIKing Jowy XXII Regnus Obscura Full Members
    edited April 2012
    It's a sad, sad thing that video games seem to inject this inherent sense of self-loathing, one so great that in order to mask it, there is this collective movement to make them something "more" than they actually are. This movement towards deifying publishers and canonizing developers as artists who are, somehow, beyond all reproach just smacks of desperation to me; desperation from gamers to validate their chosen form of recreation and lifestyle to others around them.

    I've said it before, and I will say it again: video games are a product, manufactured in mass quantity, designed to meet the specifications of a market group. They are developed to share profit as a form of entertainment media...and you know what? That's ok!

    No one can argue that video games elicit emotions in those who play them...they are developed by very talented (and sometimes untalented) people in a manner that will appeal to us based upon decades of advancement and market research, so they had damn well better provoke a response. However, there is one key to this whole issue that seems lost on so many...an artist isn't just someone who creates a product...they are someone who pour their whole being into more than just a career, they pour themselves into a lifestyle, a way of thinking that promotes the expression of their ideas in tangible/surreal forms. Rain or shine, richer or poorer, sickness and in health, they are married to their work in a way that no programmer or designer has yet dreamed - they create art to create it...profit or no, they are dedicated to providing material evidence of what is going through their heads and hearts, and a paycheck, well...that may or may not follow suit.

    Video games can be very beautiful, and can take people on a great journey into realms impossible in real life...but they do not exist purely as the expression of a vision: they exist because there is a motive behind many, MANY people involved to earn a living from their creation. They are, in a very real and tangible way, owned by those that they are created for, since they would not exist if they did not think anyone would buy them.

    Not so for an artist - they make art regardless, because again, it is their lifestyle.

    And now I see so many people, and this thread is a GREAT example, smothering the industry in undue pretension, arguing "artistic license" for something that was designed by committee to appeal to a set market...and ended up failing a large portion of that market. Mass Effect 3's ending was TRASH. Not one person who has pushed the "artistic merit" argument has been able to adequately defend the rush job that was pushed out the door. Instead, out of some bizarre and completely inexplicable sign of allegiance with the development team, they have started this whole silly push for the sanctification of games as somehow monolithic constructs, unassailable by the market.

    Seriously, do any of you ever go back and read what you typed out? Has your love for a product so blinded you to objectivity that you are willing to push gaming into near-religious levels of private worship?

    Mass Effect 3 is a video game, designed to appeal to gamers for profit, with a precedent set by each installment. That precedent was undercut by an ending that abandoned all notion of what made the series popular to begin with, so the gamers who didn't want that spoke out and said "For our $180+, you had damn well better do better than that!" And they were right. Now they are getting an extension that will hopefully explain the nonsensical quagmire that was ME3's original ending...one that fans of the original ending (as bizarre as that is to type out) can simply avoid by NOT downloading it. Nothing has been lost here...only gained in that now, self-righteous gamers the world over can hem and haw that their "artistic medium" is under attack...even though this is business as usual for the industry since gaming picked back up in 1984.

    Video games are not created in an artistic vacuum, folks. They start out as a rough sketch of an idea, and then MANY people put in their 2 cents, until, finally, at launch, the end product is nowhere in the same ballpark as the original concept. No true artist could work in such conditions, where their work was dictated by project managers, investors, marketing executives, etc etc etc...talented individuals who are capable of bringing an emotional interactive experience to life? Oh, most definitely....but artists?

    Come on.
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Jowy, you're making a crucial mistake: Assuming art is only art if it's good.

    There are thousands of crappy artists out there. Some even go on to make lots of money with their garbage. And no one's arguing the merits or demerits of ME3's ending. Well, at least I'm not, I dunno about anyone else. What I am arguing, however, is that demanding a change in an ending you personally don't like isn't the answer. Don't get me wrong, there have been some games whose endings I'd like to have seen changed, but I know it's impossible to please every single person out there, especially with a large fanbase. By working on the ending, BioWare invites even more fan rage if they get it "wrong." Also, the things you say to dismiss gaming's merit as a medium of expression could also be applied to other entertainment media, but few would argue that the best TV or film is anything other than the mark of a singular vision (LOST, The Sopranos, etc). Should everything be subject to the whims of the fandumb?

    Sorry, ME3 may have failed, but the alternative - fan control - would cause every game to fail. I'd rather a few games fall to incompetence than the entire industry to be controlled by people whose own skill is just below the level of your average fanfiction.net writer.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • King Jowy XXIIKing Jowy XXII Regnus Obscura Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Jowy, you're making a crucial mistake: Assuming art is only art if it's good.

    Really? When did I say that? I don't think you quite absorbed the full meaning behind my post.
    Should everything be subject to the whims of the fandumb?

    Whether you like it or not, it already is...and always has been. Video game developers are fortunate; unlike the writers of a novel, or the makers of a full-length feature film, it is a comparatively simple matter of "fixing" any issues. Video games were not manufactured to express artistic sentiment...they were designed to swallow quarters and create an installation base in home for recurring consumption...and they were designed to appeal to what the developers THOUGHT that people wanted...not as an expression of inner thoughts and feelings.

    If Nintendo or Sega had the Internet back then, when they were warring for dominance, you're damned right they would be "fixing" their games with patches and updates based on demand! What WE wanted ruled the day...and if they had a direct line to popular sentiment, a pulse on the market, they would have fallen over themselves to utilize it.
    I'd rather a few games fall to incompetence than the entire industry to be controlled by people whose own skill is just below the level of your average fanfiction.net writer.

    You're mistaking fan reaction for total creative control. Mass Effect 3 fans saying "End the game however you want but don't insult us while doing so" is a far cry from them sitting down in some sinister, smoke-filled, dimly-lit room and conspiring to write it FOR them.

    Again...come on.
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Whether you like it or not, it already is...and always has been. Video game developers are fortunate; unlike the writers of a novel, or the makers of a full-length feature film, it is a comparatively simple matter of "fixing" any issues. Video games were not manufactured to express artistic sentiment...they were designed to swallow quarters and create an installation base in home for recurring consumption...and they were designed to appeal to what the developers THOUGHT that people wanted...not as an expression of inner thoughts and feelings.

    If Nintendo or Sega had the Internet back then, when they were warring for dominance, you're damned right they would be "fixing" their games with patches and updates based on demand! What WE wanted ruled the day...and if they had a direct line to popular sentiment, a pulse on the market, they would have fallen over themselves to utilize it.

    And that is why gaming was nothing more than childish, throwaway entertainment to most people. If that's what you like, that's fine, but I don't see how you wouldn't understand the rest of us who would rather not have gaming sink back into those days. Whether ME3 ends up being looked at differently in the future or remains viewed as a failure, I don't think it's a bad thing to have games that end in ways that can be controversial the way Lost and The Sopranos were.

    And the Sega/Nintendo comparison is a laughable one. Back then, you could count the games whose appeal was based on story on one hand. Most of the issues with games were graphical and gameplay based.

    To demand that games bend immediately to our every whim runs directly opposed to the idea that game companies should be more creative - the two are incompatible. You can't have creativity without upsetting some people, and you can't have fans dictating to developers and expect creativity. The two concepts are mutually exclusive, and while I don't want to judge until we see what they do, it looks an awful lot like BioWarEA has surrendered creative control to the fans.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • King Jowy XXIIKing Jowy XXII Regnus Obscura Full Members
    edited April 2012
    And that is why gaming was nothing more than childish, throwaway entertainment to most people. (etc etc)

    So the introduction of better graphics and story are all that is necessary to push gaming into the category of "art?" You have a very, very forgiving definition of art, if that's the case.
    To demand that games bend immediately to our every whim runs directly opposed to the idea that game companies should be more creative - the two are incompatible. You can't have creativity without upsetting some people, and you can't have fans dictating to developers and expect creativity. The two concepts are mutually exclusive, and while I don't want to judge until we see what they do, it looks an awful lot like BioWarEA has surrendered creative control to the fans.

    My head is starting to hurt...how many times must we go in circles and watch as you retreat towards extremes? How is demanding a conclusion that is in keeping with the preceding products asking that BioWare bend to our (sigh) "every whim?" Again, no one here is saying that they need to conform to an entire product based on fan feedback, but give a conclusion to the series that A) doesn't insult the people who played the games and B) actually makes sense. This slippery slope that you seem to think will lead to development anarchy or whatever other nonsense is an illusion; a product of your mind created so that you can assail those who would dare hold BioWare to task.

    And let's talk about "creativity..." which part of the existing ending do you think was "creative?" Which part didn't steal from other games? Does taking art from the net and photoshopping it count as "creative?" Is it "creative" to drop your entire mythos for a series because the PROMISED conclusion would be too difficult or time consuming to establish?

    My God...you make it sound as if BioWare themselves didn't talk up the conclusion to the end pre-release! They dug their own grave, MC...

    ...defending them now just smacks of sycophantic ranting.
  • SavorienSavorien Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    I find your view of video games depressing, Jowy. I'm glad I don't share it.

    Video games like any entertainment media can in fact impart feelings of great joy and elation, or feelings of despair and hopelessness. They can even instill fear, and jealousy. These things are expressed through story, art and animation, and sound. Like any movie that can make you shed some tears, so too can a video game.

    The assertion that video games are merely a mechanical contrivance to line marketing moguls pockets with gold is ridiculous. Moreover that this somehow validates your claims of ownership to that content is even more ridiculous.

    Sure, it's a business. There are men and women at the top who only care about the bottom line. But they aren't designing the games. There are hard working men and women who spent years in universities trying to practice their craft, whether it's writing, art, or sound design. Trying to hone it to a sharp edge and get their degrees so that they can produce works that they are passionate about and make a living doing it.

    I wonder what Chris Metzen at Blizzard would have to say about your view.
    Vanillaware’s 2D is, once again, shaming their competitor’s 3D. It’s like, what are you even doing with your extra D, jerks? Maybe we should hold that extra D in reserve for you, like a trust, until you are ready. - Tycho, Penny Arcade
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Savorien wrote: »
    Video games like any entertainment media can in fact impart feelings of great joy and elation, or feelings of despair and hopelessness. They can even instill fear, and jealousy. These things are expressed through story, art and animation, and sound. Like any movie that can make you shed some tears, so too can a video game.

    Indeed. Toys can't do this. Soulless products can't do this. Disposable iOS games can't do this. Only when there is a heart and soul behind a project can there be any sort of emotional connection to it. The fact that we're even having this conversation proves that Mass Effect as a whole is thusly connected - No one gives two craps about the story or characters in a Mario game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
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