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Mass Effect 3 Ending Clarified for Free

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Comments

  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited April 2012
    Oh come on. I know you aren't trying to insinuate that the upcoming content pack is something they planned all along. It's a direct result of the backlash over the ending of the game.
    I'm not saying that they planned to add onto the ending. I'm saying they planned to add onto the game itself, which completely negates the argument of artistic integrity.

    EDIT: Or rather, your interpretation of artistic integrity. Since they already added onto ME1 and ME2 with stuff even after the ending, it fits that they would do the same for ME3. The free part of the coming DLC however, I admit is caving into the large amount of fans who were displeased by the ending.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    *Takes yet another whack at the giblets that used to be a horse because, hell, why not?*

    OK King Jowy XII, let's put it this way. Let's say BioWare completely caves. Just 100% throws out the current ending and puts in a new ending. Is there any guarantee that any of the Retake people? If not, then not only have BioWare completely sold out, not only have they got all the fans who didn't turn into whining babies shaking their heads and crying about the death of BioWare as a creative studio, but they've also not pleased their detractors. Then what? Do they change it again? Do they keep changing it until these tools are satisfied and everyone on the outside looking in is laughing at them, if not at the whole games industry?

    Nothing is gained and everything is risked on the path BioWarEA is taking now. At least if they'd stuck to their guns, they could just go into hiding until the internet found some other non-issue to blow out of proportion.
    I'm not saying that they planned to add onto the ending. I'm saying they planned to add onto the game itself, which completely negates the argument of artistic integrity.

    EDIT: Or rather, your interpretation of artistic integrity. Since they already added onto ME1 and ME2 with stuff even after the ending, it fits that they would do the same for ME3. The free part of the coming DLC however, I admit is caving into the large amount of fans who were displeased by the ending.

    I think the fact we have no idea what the hell's being planned, or rather was prior to this, means we really can't say either way or the other. However, the ME1 and ME2 DLC is entirely part of their own designs. This is an entirely different situation, one that would scare me away from any choice-driven games if I were a publisher CEO. Who the hell needs this kind of profit-obliterating scandal?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • King Jowy XXIIKing Jowy XXII Regnus Obscura Full Members
    edited April 2012
    If not, then not only have BioWare completely sold out

    I think that this is the major disconnect, right here...I just don't see game developers sitting on as lofty a pedestal as you and yours seems to have placed them. It seems like every fanbase today has this baffling desire to elevate their form of recreation into something more than what it is. It's as if there is this inherent sense of insecurity, like you wouldn't be caught dead enjoying a VIDEO GAME, but as a piece of art, well...that just makes it a-ok.

    We've gone back and forth on this so much that it would make a match at Wimbledon seem tame by comparison. BioWare failed to deliver on their promises...the outrage is justified. How they plan to handle that outrage is up to them.

    Why make it more complicated than that?
  • MasterChiefMasterChief I didn't learn anything! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    The outrage is justified.

    This is the disconnect, especially considering the lack of universal agreement.

    No one's putting them on a pedestal. We'd just rather preserve some measure of creative freedom because, at the end of the day, nothing is gained by utter submission to the fanboys/girls. This is what I fail to see. We always rail against games that are solely the result of focus-group testing, but isn't that what people are asking of BioWare? And wouldn't we deserve nothing else if that were the case?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What the f--- is a Shakespeare?"
    -Rico Valasquez, showing off why no one likes him.
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Okay, I'm getting increasingly tired of the people asking for a better ending being called "tools" or "babies." They are doing EXACTLY what customers are supposed to do - tell the company they are not happy with their product and that they do not intend to buy any more unless the problem is fixed. BioWare wanted the nice stream of easy money from post-game DLC, and apparently they made people so angry that their stream of cash flow was threatened. EA's stock price has been tanking as a direct result of the terrible press.

    This is how capitalism works! This is how it is SUPPOSED to work! Should angry customers just shut up and not say anything because, oh no, they're...challenging artistic integrity?

    I hate to break it to you, but any artist that isn't giving out their art for free will absolutely cave in the face of losing income. It's called "needing to eat." Mass Effect has been a monetized tentpole for five years and EA is very frank that they intend to continue it well into the future. If salvaging that franchise in the wake of extremely bad press and a very measurable impact on their financial health is "losing artistic integrity", then I suggest some of these people would rather have BioWare go out of business by sticking to their guns rather than admit a mistake and try to fix it.
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited April 2012
    MC, you DID notice how they said they would only 'clarify' the ending, right? I don't consider it changing an ending if you actually explain things better.

    For example, say I write a story where the ending has the heroes and the world being covered in a nothingness that destroys all it touches as the world suddenly ceases to exist, only to have one person who was just with the party as it was occurring running away from the team and somehow ending up in a grassy plain, with the destruction having disappeared. It wouldn't make sense. But if I add to it that the person has the magical MacGuffin the villain used in the end, and ran from the nothingness while wishing for a new world because said character was the only one who could get it to work properly, and THEN the world changed to how they wished it, I just got rid of said confusion. I HAD IT MAKE SENSE BY ADDING TO IT.

    I have a feeling this is what Bioware is going to do with the ending DLC, just adding scenes to make some sense of the ending. Odds are the AI godchild will still be there, but all the scenes afterwards will have some things added, and possibly more dialogue with the AI godchild. That I don't see as a changed ending, I see that as an extension of the original ending.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • JitawaJitawa Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    I didn't like the ending. I said as much in the original review thread (as did the reviewer). I also didn't really envision them "changing" it in anyway, elaboration not-withstanding. I'm normally content for games to end poorly, as I think screwing up an ending is definitely the developer's prerogative. I think they over-promised and under-delivered. I think their design ethos has shifted from the amount of effort and time that went into games like Dragon Age: Origins in comparison to ME3.

    I don't fault the deus ex machina or the lack of a "happy" ending, and I think the latter is a somewhat unrealistic request from fans. I do think the fans are absolutely justified in taking the developers to task (via criticism) for where their promises diverged greatly from the finished product. I think that is just. You want developers to be aware that certain elements are "not okay", and that you aren't satisfied with a shoddy product. The developer quotes I posted weren't from years ago, these were comments they made about the game this year. Complacency doesn't serve our interests as consumers, and we should make dissatisfaction with broken promises known.

    This isn't limited to endings. Bugs like MP characters losing all their credits, face importing not working, or bugs like "dead" characters returning to life in emotional scenes... that's B-A-D. One bug resurrects a dead LI for a night of passion, and if that's not an awkward bug... well... yeah. Issues in quality control like that, or like the bugs prevalent in DA:2 at launch (to say nothing of the repeated dungeons... eck...) say a lot more to me about issues with a publisher/developer than poor story choices.

    My issue with Rahl et al.'s statements is less about wanting some sort of rewrite, and more about taking issue with any idea that there is some sacrosanct artistic integrity with respect to games specifically or art as a product in general. Discourse has been relatively civil in my opinion. Charity drive? Cupcakes? Not so bad. Compare Vincent Gallo's and Ebert's spat over Brown Bunny: Ebert slams it, Gallo makes comments about him getting cancer, he recuts the movie, Ebert says it works better after that. I don't think people will be satisfied ultimately with the "clarification", but I don't think of ME fans as being any more "whiny" or "entitled" than the fans that pushed for a "better ending" to Evangelion (which is probably a good comparison).
  • King Jowy XXIIKing Jowy XXII Regnus Obscura Full Members
    edited April 2012
    This is the disconnect, especially considering the lack of universal agreement.

    You think so? Though opinions vary slightly to the severity of some, there seems to be a focus on five areas where the ending failed, which have been published in countless blogs, articles, etc.
    No one's putting them on a pedestal. We'd just rather preserve some measure of creative freedom because, at the end of the day, nothing is gained by utter submission to the fanboys/girls. This is what I fail to see. We always rail against games that are solely the result of focus-group testing, but isn't that what people are asking of BioWare? And wouldn't we deserve nothing else if that were the case?

    Problem is, nothing is gained by submission to the devs, either. This whole mess is symptomatic of a much larger issue: the unchecked and unbridled greed of publishers. They have been strong-arming gamers for years, now, with no sign of things getting any better; clunky DLC, raised pricing, always-on DRM, digital exclusivity and licensing, etc etc etc...asking people to swallow rushed, lazy writing on top of the whole thing is a tall, tall order to swallow. You ask for respect for the developers: ok, fair enough...I ask for respect for the consumers who pay their bills and feed their families.

    The gaming industry is just like any other out there: an antagonistic tug-of-war between consumers and producers. We want a product that entertains, and they want our money...and while somewhere in the middle it would be nice for a recognition of a shared interest in the artistic merits of the games themselves, it is incumbent upon the developers to fulfill their end of the bargain. In this case, BioWare set the bar high...so high that they could not deliver on their own promises. It's not like people people were building up some unrealistic set of expectations for Mass Effect's final curtain - after all, we've all suffered through crap endings before. Had Casey Hudson left well-enough alone, we would not be having this conversation. People would just write it off as another short BioWare conclusion and be thankful for the journey.

    Instead, we were told that all of our efforts would pay off to a unique conclusion...we played believing that we would see the results of our actions. We weren't just playing for the action, we were playing to be the author's of our character's destiny...

    ...because we were told that we would be doing just that. So perhaps we are entitled...after all, we were told that that is exactly what we were getting, so you're damn right we had expectations going in!

    Anyway, I think the horse is now a gel-like smear amid the bent and broken blades of red and brown grass of a dark, lonely field. Before we start digging a well, I think I will just say good night to everyone.
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited April 2012
    Umm omega, please forgive me for asking this, but you DO know that people are allowed to have differing opinions, right?
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • Adriaan den OudenAdriaan den Ouden Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2012
    Umm omega, please forgive me for asking this, but you DO know that people are allowed to have differing opinions, right?

    People can feel free to like or dislike the ending all they want, but there is absolutely zero reason for it to have gotten the amount of abject hatred that it received. After hearing all the blather on the internet about it, I was expecting something with zero closure, zero drama, totally anticlimactic, possibly nonsensical, but now that I've finished it, I got none of that. I can see why some people might not like it, it certainly wasn't perfect, but the response that it's gotten is absolutely ridiculous.

    But the absolute worst part is that people actually felt so entitled that they tried to make them CHANGE THE ENDING. Do you realize how totally ****ed up that is? Have you never read/seen Misery?

    Frankly, it's disturbing that they're making this extended cut DLC at all. It sets a dangerous precedent, and completely undermines their integrity. I'm not going to go and change one of my reviews just because a few people don't agree with it, and there's no reason that BioWare should go change their story just because a few people don't like how it ends.
    Maybe I'll log out and check my e-mail or something...
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited April 2012
    omegabyte wrote: »
    Frankly, it's disturbing that they're making this extended cut DLC at all. It sets a dangerous precedent, and completely undermines their integrity. I'm not going to go and change one of my reviews just because a few people don't agree with it, and there's no reason that BioWare should go change their story just because a few people don't like how it ends.
    I believe that I covered said 'precedent', 'changes', and 'integrity' in the ME3 thread, so I won't go into it here. I'm glad you liked the game in its entirety, and I'm pretty sure the DLC won't actually change anything but add other things for the rest of us who didn't like the ending (which makes it pretty hard to replay the game).
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • Anna Marie PrivitereAnna Marie Privitere Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2012
    There's a better thread for this discussion. FB, should I split this out for you? :)
  • FrozenbabylonFrozenbabylon POW! Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Yeeeeeeees.
  • Anna Marie PrivitereAnna Marie Privitere Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2012
    Discussion moved to its lovely new home. Carry on.
  • QuinQuin ne cede malis RPGamer Staff
    edited April 2012
    omegabyte wrote: »
    I was expecting something with zero closure, zero drama, totally anticlimactic, possibly nonsensical, but now that I've finished it, I got none of that.

    Congratulations!

    Because I certainly did get some of that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    befriend (v.): to use mecha-class beam weaponry to inflict grievous bodily harm on a target in the process of proving the validity of your belief system.
  • King Jowy XXIIKing Jowy XXII Regnus Obscura Full Members
    edited April 2012
    Paws wrote: »
    Discussion moved to its lovely new home. Carry on.

    ...oh. Goody.

    ...this thread just won't die, will it? My forum OCD isn't going to help matters, either.

    Hey Omega:

    Maybe you can help all of us "entitled" people out, then...if the ending is not so bad, perhaps you could tell us how? I mean, it makes zero sense, is full of plot holes and completely turns the tone of the series on its head...

    ...perhaps you could enlighten us?
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited April 2012
    Jowy, don't antagonize people please. He's entitled to his opinions after all.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • SavorienSavorien Member Full Members
    edited April 2012
    I can't believe this is still going on, lol.

    *pours some gasoline on the blazing inferno*

    As soon as you crowd-source the direction for your creative works, you've creatively bankrupted the work. The mindset that this is ok is what I really want to address, not the fact that people didn't like the ending. As it's been stated many times, people are given free will to like and dislike what they choose to. Critiquing any kind of art form is acceptable. Demanding that it be changed until you like it is bat-**** insane.

    However I do support the assertion, if anyone ever made it, that Bioware should have taken fans playthroughs and investment of the fiction into account when penning their direction of ME3. In a lot of story beats that didn't happen, which is unfortunate.
    Vanillaware’s 2D is, once again, shaming their competitor’s 3D. It’s like, what are you even doing with your extra D, jerks? Maybe we should hold that extra D in reserve for you, like a trust, until you are ready. - Tycho, Penny Arcade
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