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FF7 Retranslation Project

ShinseitoriShinseitori MemberFull Members
edited July 2013 in Square Enix
Seems they are done with all the combat and item translation and are halfway done with the script. Their thread is here:

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11867.0

Some really interesting discussion there. Not the least of which is a certain revelation about the President of Shinra. :D

I also wonder why this took so long, considering this game's rabid fanbase. Did other projects start up and never follow through?
Rise!
«13

Comments

  • Anna Marie PrivitereAnna Marie Privitere Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited June 2012
    Most get C&Ds. Especially since FFVII is purportedly going to be released on Steam.
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited June 2012
    Hopefully it won't get a C&D, as I'd love to see a remastered FF7 localization. If they get a patch for it going for the PSP, it'll sit happily beside my FFT:WotL animation slowdown elimination patch.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • ShinseitoriShinseitori Member Full Members
    edited June 2012
    ...FFT:WotL animation slowdown elimination patch.

    Wait, what? Googling...

    Well, I'll be damned. You just made my month.
    Rise!
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited June 2012
    Oh it made my year when I found it. It works perfectly as well, as there is no more slowdown in battle animations. Even summons go off without a problem.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • maryadaviesmaryadavies She Shoots For The Stars Somewhere east of Atlanta, GAModerators
    edited June 2012
    Finally finished reading though it, no thanks to sister aggro.

    Really interesting! And yes, shows the translation was rushed, but I hope Square can at least do a official retranslation when/if they do the steam release. ^^
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  • LassicLassic Member Full Members
    edited June 2012
    Looks interresting and there's obviously a lot of work involved. If this get's out it might even warrant another playthrough just to spot all the differences:D

    I do have a minor quibble though:
    I still remember the whole "Aerith" debacle, which rages to this day. Aeris sounds better but the writers were not happy that their character name was wrong in the English game. They made sure that was changed. Rather than people accepting their wishes on the matter, they instead jumped up and down demanding that their preferences supersede the authors.

    Why would they change it back to Aerith? Everyone and their pets knows that character as Aeris, not Aerith. I can understand the change if "Aerith" has some special meaning relevant to the plot or to her character which I think isn't case here. Not like the Noah/Lutz debacle of Phantasy Star I/II. The original translators chose to employ a little artistic freedom here and went for the name we all know and love. Besides, "Aeris" just rolls of your tongue whereas "Aerith" starts to roll and then crashes to an abrupt halt the tip :p
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited June 2012
    I can see where they got Aeris from Aerith. Say Aerith and keep the 'th' sound going for a while. It sounds like a 's' sound. Now add into it a Japanese accent, and it probably sounded completely like an 's'. But on another note, Lassic, in every media since FF7 they've referred to her as Aerith. If the fans haven't gotten it drilled into their heads it's Aerith, it's their own fault.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • ClixClix Former Listmaster Full Members
    edited June 2012
    Furthermore, I believe the point was that Aerith sounded a bit like Earth, which makes sense given her role within the plot and in relation with the Planet.
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited June 2012
    Listen to Hojo, he knows his science. XD

    Now that I've gotten that off my chest, I really do hope that they have touched on the writing a bit, even though I know that's a pipe dream.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • flamethrowerflamethrower Member Full Members
    edited June 2012
    Aeris is the original Spell My Name with an 'S.' In the end, just a preference thing. End of discussion.
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member Full Members
    edited June 2012
    Also you can rename the characters when you get them so who cares. You can name her Crackho if you really wanted to and it wouldn't matter
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  • CidolfasCidolfas Member Full Members
    edited June 2012
    Wow, that DLPB guy who defends being literal and ignoring canon comes across as amazingly pretentious ("we can't imagine why anyone would ever want to keep some of these things, the original is obviously flawed and completely terrible, yadda yadda...") and indicates that he misunderstands the whole premise of "localization" (as opposed to "translation"). The main translator shows more nuance, which makes me feel better.
  • ShadowcatShadowcat Member Full Members
    edited June 2012
    Paws wrote: »
    Most get C&Ds. Especially since FFVII is purportedly going to be released on Steam.

    about steam: I've heard this rumor and I'm wondering how they'll get it to look nice with modern video cards...but there are mod patches for this that have gotten past the C&Ds.

    About the project: If the retranslation is only for the PC version it may just fall under SE's radar since stuff for this is pretty well ignored. This may change if the PC edition hits steam tho...
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  • ClixClix Former Listmaster Full Members
    edited June 2012
    Cidolfas wrote: »
    Wow, that DLPB guy who defends being literal and ignoring canon comes across as amazingly pretentious ("we can't imagine why anyone would ever want to keep some of these things, the original is obviously flawed and completely terrible, yadda yadda...") and indicates that he misunderstands the whole premise of "localization" (as opposed to "translation"). The main translator shows more nuance, which makes me feel better.

    However, from my understanding, the original translation was just that, a translation; it was not a localization. Most of it was handled in Japan with non-native speakers, similar to the FFI and IV translations. Sakaguchi did not approve of the localization efforts of Woosley for VI and decided to go back to having less qualified individuals (this time two separate groups which partly explains some of the issues with consistent quality) translate the games. This continued until FFVIII; while still translated by Square in Japan, they finally hired good native speakers (this being the first work in the series by Alexander O. Smith). Thus, I don't consider FFVII (or I and IV) to have been properly localized, unlike say VI, VIII, and on.
  • flamethrowerflamethrower Member Full Members
    edited June 2012
    I figure he's allowed to be pretentious. It's his (and the translator's) project. No one is forcing you to play it.

    For games, I have no idea which one I prefer. For anime, where you can hear the Japanese audio, I prefer literal-leaning translations because for me it's jarring if the subtitles don't match what's being said to a high degree. FF7 has no audio, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.
  • ShinseitoriShinseitori Member Full Members
    edited June 2012
    Yeah, they had a bare bones staff back then. Now if some folks put together a patch for Xenogears... (no one did that one, right?)

    I'm personally torn on the Aeris issue. It sounds nicer and, like Lassic said, flows off the tongue better, which is probably why it got translated that way in the first place. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some linguistic reason why it seems better to a native English speaker. But Square has insisted, somehow, somewhere, that it be translated back into Aerith, and I respect that.

    I agree that the project lead comes across as amazingly pretentious. I just about facepalmed when I read him shooting down a suggestion because he "couldn't find it in any dictionaries." He does seem focused on trying to keep the important characteristics as close to canon as he can manage, though. I like that he's bringing Cait Sith and Barret (or should I say Barrett?) more in line with how the Japanese indicated they should talk. Not that Cait Sith necessarily would have used Scottish, but just a different accent. I had no idea Reno had a weird verbal tic, either.
    Rise!
  • CidolfasCidolfas Member Full Members
    edited June 2012
    Just because the original wasn't properly localized (which isn't really true; Star Ocean 2 was a far more literal translation than FF7) doesn't mean that they shouldn't put in the effort to make it accessible. I'm not saying that the final version of what they're doing wouldn't, only that the team lead makes it sound like canon and tradition are meaningless and beneath contempt while paying lip service to it. Changing Moogle to Moguri is one example - that isn't just an FF7 tradition but a FF series tradition, and would be guaranteed to confuse people if it were an official release. (Moogle also just sounds way better to an English speaking audience).
  • RebochanRebochan Who needs Rinoa anyway? Full Members
    edited June 2012
    Clix wrote: »
    However, from my understanding, the original translation was just that, a translation; it was not a localization. Most of it was handled in Japan with non-native speakers, similar to the FFI and IV translations. Sakaguchi did not approve of the localization efforts of Woosley for VI and decided to go back to having less qualified individuals (this time two separate groups which partly explains some of the issues with consistent quality) translate the games. This continued until FFVIII; while still translated by Square in Japan, they finally hired good native speakers (this being the first work in the series by Alexander O. Smith). Thus, I don't consider FFVII (or I and IV) to have been properly localized, unlike say VI, VIII, and on.

    That part about Woolsey isn't true - according to him, he was actually asked to work on FF7 and in fact was intending to, but instead he ended up leaving Squaresoft due to the company moving from Seattle to Los Angeles before the localization started.

    Regarding the "Aeris" thing, I've always called her Aerith when I found it was a name change. Square has never called her anything else except in the base game. I think most of the people claiming Aeris "flows better" are saying so because they're nostalgic for it. "Aerith" is no more bizarre or lisp-inducing than "Lilith" or "Meredith".
    "One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes
  • ShinseitoriShinseitori Member Full Members
    edited June 2012
    I don't know about nostalgia, as I'm not exactly a big FF7 fan; I'll give you familiarity though. If I knew someone named Meredis first, a "Meredith" would sound lispy and weird to me.
    Cidolfas wrote: »
    Changing Moogle to Moguri is one example - that isn't just an FF7 tradition but a FF series tradition, and would be guaranteed to confuse people if it were an official release. (Moogle also just sounds way better to an English speaking audience).

    Yeah, I don't like that at all. Being the prolific re-release and spinoff publisher that Square Enix is, there's been ample opportunity to address this, but they've kept it consistent. It's just a word that doesn't translate well to English, so if it were me, I wouldn't mess with this. I have no idea where Woolsey came up with the original, though.

    He's also doing it with some of the spell names, another element of Final Fantasy that has weird words and truncations that don't translate well. I just don't understand the need to deviate from what's become convention on many of these terms, as they are taking some liberties with the script anyway, which is really what counts. I suppose he is putting his name on it and wants to feel comfortable in his own way.
    Rise!
  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited June 2012
    The way I'd do it, I'd merely change the script translation, while keeping some of the standard series namesakes for everything else. For example, Moogles are Moogles, Chocobos are Chocobos, and the Fire 1-3 spells are Fire, Fira, and Firaga to give an example. However like fansubs, there are going to be very different variations on things depending on who is doing it, so the way I would do it isn't necessarily how this guy would do it.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • SiliconNooBSiliconNooB Member Full Members
    edited June 2012
    Was it really necessary to retranslate 'Moogle'?

    I would much rather play with the original slightly rough translation than use whatever these autistic pedants manage to cobble together.

    And Aeris will always be Aeris.
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  • DarkRPGMasterDarkRPGMaster A Witness to Destruction Moderators
    edited June 2012
    Aeris will always be Aeris.
    I agree, exception being when she's called Aerith by the VAs.
    "Yes, because apparently blindly jumping headfirst into a firefight without a grasp on the situation or any combat experience is a sign of genius these days."
  • DLPBDLPB New Member Full Members
    edited August 2012
    Hello! I keep an eye on interest in our project. I have signed up to explain a few things and dispel a few myths concerning the project. First, probably due to my own bad presentation, many people have it in their heads that this project forces you to use our new character names and canon. This isn't true. For those names that are entrenched in canon (Moogle, Megalixir etc), the installer allows you to keep these names. The same for the original character names with the exception of Aerith which is now canon. American spellings can also be selected in the installer. No, I didn't duplicate files... I made a program to change the text in real time before the encode.

    More on Aerith: There is a page in Ultimania that explains the origin of Aerith from the English word Earth. The th is definitely intended. The reason it ended up as Aeris is because the localiser (Michael Baskett) was not given the Official Establishment File, which made it clear what the spellings were intended to be. Had he been given this file, Reno would now be Leno, and Elena would be Yrena.

    Because Baskett was working with the kana only, he had NO WAY of knowing that Earisu was meant to be Aerith. su can be s, su, th when romanising. This is also evident elsewhere with Desu (Death) and behiimosu (Behemoth). He made a guess... and got the intended romanisation wrong. I would have got it wrong as well, because undoubtedly, Aeris sounds better than Aerith.

    Unfortunately, that is what it is. And the writer is god. In most cases we have no right to supersede the authors. I am a little arrogant, yes... but that is the only way a project like this can work. Any dithering and democracy will result in it never being done. I like to think we are very competent in what we are doing but that is up to the end user to ultimately pass judgement on.

    We have been making good progress, but I am currently fixing the submarine game to have 5 completely different difficulties, and have been busy programming this of late for the Menu Overhaul Project (version M06). Luksy is also busy with life. We intend to have the whole thing done by the end of the year, and I will certainly be making a push to get this done ASAP. The amount of dialogue is abnormal game-wise, so it is taking a while. Not to mention the non dialogue stuff was also a nightmare.
  • CidolfasCidolfas Member Full Members
    edited August 2012
    To be honest, I've seen plenty of cases where the Japanese "official" spellings of names were patently wrong, or just looked ridiculous. Examples I can think of include Chrono Cross and FF6 (seriously, does anyone really thing "Cefca" would have gone over as well?). Japanese writers don't always understand what makes English spelling "work". "Yrena" is another case of a name that looks like it needs a few more vowels, and "Leno" evokes a chinny talk-show host rather than a somewhat seedy casino town.
  • DLPBDLPB New Member Full Members
    edited August 2012
    That is only because you have grown up with those names. I am not sure whether it was meant to be Cefka, since it can be romanised as either from Japanese. I would have no issue with Cefka anyway. If it had been Leno (meaning Pimp/Seducer in Latin) and Yrena from the beginning, you would have no issue with it. Yrena is a lot more original than Elena at any rate, and names are subjective. The only time I can see a need for a name change is if the word ends up as something ridiculous, or if it takes away from the "Mystical feeling". Tina did that... So they called her Terra. Even so, it should be up to the writer. If they call their character Aerith, that is the end of it as far as I am concerned. It is their work, not ours :)

    However, due to not everyone seeing this logic, I have made a concession in the installer, so that people who are offended can opt to use "English Canon".
  • CidolfasCidolfas Member Full Members
    edited August 2012
    That's a pretty strong statement to make, and I can see why people label you as arrogant. I haven't "grown up" with FF7 (it came out when I was 17) and no, I can guarantee you that if I had seen the name Yrena, I would have thought it looked weird then, and I would still think it looks weird now. There are certain combinations of phonemes, syllables and spelling constructs that are common in the English language, and others that look unnatural. The only names I can think of that begin with a Y as a vowel are French ones like Yvonne, Yvette or Yves. Yrena sounds more Russian, and would likely be transliterated as "Irena" from the Cyrillic. As for "Cefka" - the "CE" combination is pretty much always used as a soft C, meaning the name would sound like "Sefka", so no, it is not a valid romanization.

    Please do not make assumptions about the way my mind thinks, thank you very much.
  • Michael BakerMichael Baker RPGamer Staff RPGamer Staff
    edited August 2012
    Here, here.

    Also please do not assume that Japanese writers have any solid concept of foreign phonetics when they decide on these names. Granted, the guys at Square aren't nearly as bad as the ones at Gust (at least in the early days Q_Q), but where there is romanization without proper feedback (common with many games' pre-translated versions) there will be bizarre spellings. Common sense and personal esthetics should help dictate whether or not to use a spelling, not blind adherence to the developer's original spellings.

    How does one deal with a word like Qlione, for example?
  • TheAnimeManTheAnimeMan Member Full Members
    edited August 2012
    Here, here.

    Also please do not assume that Japanese writers have any solid concept of foreign phonetics when they decide on these names. Granted, the guys at Square aren't nearly as bad as the ones at Gust (at least in the early days Q_Q), but where there is romanization without proper feedback (common with many games' pre-translated versions) there will be bizarre spellings. Common sense and personal esthetics should help dictate whether or not to use a spelling, not blind adherence to the developer's original spellings.

    How does one deal with a word like Qlione, for example?

    By throwing ones hands up into the air and saying "how the **** should I know".

    More seriously, I'm still surprised that this has not been hit with a C&D yet, especially with the fact Square is doing a new PC release of FF7
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  • flamethrowerflamethrower Member Full Members
    edited August 2012
    How do you get the "Qu" sound in Japanese? It's "ku," right? I would just call him/her "Lione." Everybody knows the Q is slient. There can be no disagreement about that :) .
  • DLPBDLPB New Member Full Members
    edited August 2012
    Other people don't label me as arrogant, I label myself it, and I am happy to ;)

    As I summed up in my thread, fanboyism is a mental disease, and canon sends a normal person crazy in debates. I have no problem people like canon, they can after all opt to use it with our mod. MY problem is when they intolerantly slam our project because it aims to do better (i.e. it has to change something they think has a god given right to stay). I use the logical example that if Elena had been Yrena from the start and I was now saying "Elena is actually the correct one", you'd be defending the use of Yrena instead (and yes you would, because you are using the same fallacy when defending Elena). Canon makes no sense, especially when it is based on a pack of mistakes. I did not tell you your mind, I told you how a human mind works in general. And it does work this way.

    A C&D would not stop us either, it would just move to torrent. I have no fear of Square, but if they know what is good for them they will allow us to complete it in public, since at the end of the day, mods make people come together and give them free publicity.

    Also, my larger post above is gone? I cannot see it?

    Additionally, I did not come here for a slanging match about Moogle/Moguri or otherwise. I came here to explain why it is Aerith, why people have no right to supersede the authors of FF7, and to dispel the myth that we FORCE the correct names on people. We don't. The installer allows you a degree of leniency. I have, however, named it "For the fanboys", in the installer. Which is less harsh than I wanted it to be ;)

    Dan
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