RPGamer Mailbag presents: Final Fantasy Opened Mind Second Chance

Shinseitori · March 2014

I definitely second the weapon specialization.

There's a lot of long dungeons in the game, so don't neglect your MP capacity, either.

Lassic · March 2014

I've started Final Fantasy II today and I've just finished the Mythril mine. (Never been this far)

The leveling system is still atrocious: after each battle I'm crossing my fingers that someone in the party gained some MP or a stat boost. Otherwise that battle felt like a waste of time due to the lack of a complementary exp system and the abysmal amounts of gil the non-goblin enemies drop. The lack of an ingame indicator of how and when you get a stat boost and the seemingly random nature are the main culprits and completely unacceptable as this a remake. There were also a few farcial situations were I was almost begging the enemies to attack Maria as she was extremely lagging behind in HP. (33HP compared to Firion's 112HP or Gus' 150HP)

I will probably play some more tomorrow and go to Bafta or grind a few hours to get the Mythril equipment. But at this moment it's obvious that Final Fantasy II is a decent game (for it's time) dragged down by an awfull leveling system.

Shinseitori · March 2014

There might be a way for hardcore players to go without it, but in that game there's going to be a point, maybe two, where you have to grind your stats up. MP in particular becomes tough to build in dungeon runs.

I've managed a little more time into Final Fantasy IX. I ended up putting it on my PSP, and having it portable helps. Now I can literally put it down and make a sandwich while battles load!

Wheels · March 2014

Lassic wrote: »

I've started Final Fantasy II today and I've just finished the Mythril mine. (Never been this far)

The leveling system is still atrocious: after each battle I'm crossing my fingers that someone in the party gained some MP or a stat boost. Otherwise that battle felt like a waste of time due to the lack of a complementary exp system and the abysmal amounts of gil the non-goblin enemies drop. The lack of an ingame indicator of how and when you get a stat boost and the seemingly random nature are the main culprits and completely unacceptable as this a remake. There were also a few farcial situations were I was almost begging the enemies to attack Maria as she was extremely lagging behind in HP. (33HP compared to Firion's 112HP or Gus' 150HP)

I will probably play some more tomorrow and go to Bafta or grind a few hours to get the Mythril equipment. But at this moment it's obvious that Final Fantasy II is a decent game (for it's time) dragged down by an awfull leveling system.

It's kind of cheesy but you can attack your own party members to work on their HP stat. The leveling system really isn't that random, you'll get boosts to what you use.

Rockko · March 2014

This discussion should prove to be interesting... I don't necessarily dislike any of the games and am currently playing through many for the first time. I just finished up Lightening Returns to finsh off that trilogy. In retrospect, I enjoyed it, but can certainly sympathize with any issues that players may have. So I'm currenttly playing through IX and XIV and also will be stating the remixes of X and X-2 next week. Anyway, this is a good idea and I look forward to reading the assessments...

smacd · March 2014

deleted.

Shinseitori · March 2014

I hear ya. I had no problems with Dimensions on my Android tablet, but it did not run FF6 well. Took me by surprise.

And, unfortunately, "straying too far and getting your butt whupped" is exactly what has been happening to me in FF9. What I remembered disliking about the game was the poor pacing. While that's there, I forgot about being straight-up punished for even slightly going off the rails. In a game--so far--with save points often tucked away in side rooms, this is not good. A couple other things have been driving me nuts, too, but they might get better. We'll see.

Wheels · March 2014

Shinseitori wrote: »

I hear ya. I had no problems with Dimensions on my Android tablet, but it did not run FF6 well. Took me by surprise.

And, unfortunately, "straying too far and getting your butt whupped" is exactly what has been happening to me in FF9. What I remembered disliking about the game was the poor pacing. While that's there, I forgot about being straight-up punished for even slightly going off the rails. In a game--so far--with save points often tucked away in side rooms, this is not good. A couple other things have been driving me nuts, too, but they might get better. We'll see.

I'm not sure you're quite getting the open minded aspect of this challenge. FFIX, at least a large portion of it, is very much linear and intended to be so.

Complaining about punishing you for going off the rails kind of misses the point. Get back on the rails and come back with complaints if you don't find them to your liking. I'm serious when I say I'll be chucking all entries with typical complaints for any given FF.

Approach the games for what they are, not what you'd like them to be.

smacd · March 2014

deleted.

Shinseitori · March 2014

Wheels wrote: »

I'm not sure you're quite getting the open minded aspect of this challenge. FFIX, at least a large portion of it, is very much linear and intended to be so.

Complaining about punishing you for going off the rails kind of misses the point. Get back on the rails and come back with complaints if you don't find them to your liking. I'm serious when I say I'll be chucking all entries with typical complaints for any given FF.

Approach the games for what they are, not what you'd like them to be.

That wasn't my point, and I hope you're not expecting totally flowery responses from your entrants. I know this game is very linear, and I don't mind that about this series. At all. Hell, FFX is one of my favorites in the series. My complaint, if you want to call it that, isn't that the game is linear, it's that, as I wrote, even slight deviations aren't supported.

I'm talking about things like dying to normal-difficulty-then-suddenly-superpowered trash a couple of times because I tried to pick up a Blue Magic spell. Or, not realizing the book in Castle Alexandria's library was going to wipe the floor with me (and it's a battle you can't run from).

Me going into this game with an open mind was accepting the pacing problems and looking past them. I'm enjoying the more high fantasy than usual setting and the skill system, despite a few early hiccups with that. What I've recanted here are things I either completely forgot--it's been more than ten years since I've played this far into it and I have zero memory of much so far--or things I was not bothered by before.

Wheels · March 2014

smacd wrote: »

That's true. With FF9, it is really mostly a linear game, although I think it disguises it better than X and XIII.

However with FF2, what I meant is that there are several places early on in the game where you can walk a little too far north in a forest and all the sudden find enemies that hit for hundreds rather than tens of damage. I know that there are techniques using these areas to basically break the game, but I'm just going to save often and hope I don't accidentally stray too far.

Sadly that's just kind of a side effect from a lot of NES era RPGs. Saving often is not a bad idea!

Shinseitori wrote: »

That wasn't my point, and I hope you're not expecting totally flowery responses from your entrants. I know this game is very linear, and I don't mind that about this series. At all. Hell, FFX is one of my favorites in the series. My complaint, if you want to call it that, isn't that the game is linear, it's that, as I wrote, even slight deviations aren't supported.

I'm talking about things like dying to normal-difficulty-then-suddenly-superpowered trash a couple of times because I tried to pick up a Blue Magic spell. Or, not realizing the book in Castle Alexandria's library was going to wipe the floor with me (and it's a battle you can't run from).

Me going into this game with an open mind was accepting the pacing problems and looking past them. I'm enjoying the more high fantasy than usual setting and the skill system, despite a few early hiccups with that. What I've recanted here are things I either completely forgot--it's been more than ten years since I've played this far into it and I have zero memory of much so far--or things I was not bothered by before.

I certainly don't expect a giant stack of flowery "I LOVE FF <Insert number> NOW!" responses.

That said, going into these games with an open mind means trying to look past ALL the issues to see if the overall experience is something you can enjoy. This instance is fine because it's something you hadn't remembered but it seemed like a good time to remind everyone that this isn't simply "replay a hated FF and send me your vile!" Carry on!

Jormungand · March 2014

Clix wrote: »

You can't pay me to replay FFIII. No one can pay me to do that again.

I'd like to steal your words, please.

I actually did something like this a few years ago with IX. I went into it with the specific goal of giving it another chance and trying to keep an open mind (given all of its praise, though that praise remains inexplicable to me). My opinion of the game improved slightly, but IX is still a thumbs down entry for me.

That leaves X and XIII. I sold XIII, so no. X's got the HD version coming out, but I would never pay for that experience again. I've considered playing X over, but there's just no point. There's no "new" way to play it. With IX I could at least use a different set of characters. X's character-switching system is brilliant, but also a double-edged sword in that a replay doesn't lend itself to using different characters. And the sphere grid is too restrictive to "customize" characters in a different way than the first time around, whereas with FF3 I could at least grow a different set of jobs.

So, yeah. 1, 3, 9, 10, 11, and 13 are my thumbs-down games in the main series, and I can't bring myself to spend more time with any of them. Haven't played 2 or 14.2.

Good luck to those who give it a shot.

Wheels · March 2014

Played only 15 minutes of X-2 on PS3 and already finding the goofiness infectious. I think this may go well guys! Please don't make me retry XIII-2 after this!

kazriko · March 2014

Wheels wrote: »

It does not, maybe give it another chance by trying the DS version?

Nope, Because of FF4AY I'm completely burned out on ATB FF games right now. I'm avoiding them like the plague.

Wheels · March 2014

Still not a huge fan of the mission structure of FFX-2 but not as big a deal this time around considering other parts of the game no longer bother me.

Tintaglia · March 2014

Mpfh. People should stop giving so much attention to this overrated series and play some underrated ones instead. It frustrates me to no end that any Final Fantasy title will sell better and get so much more attention than more deserving titles, just because a long time ago Final Fantasy was synonymous with JRPGs. There are too many good RPGs out now to waste life on this. But that's your time wasted and not mine, so knock yourselves out.

Wheels · March 2014

Tintaglia wrote: »

Mpfh. People should stop giving so much attention to this overrated series and play some underrated ones instead. It frustrates me to no end that any Final Fantasy title will sell better and get so much more attention than more deserving titles, just because a long time ago Final Fantasy was synonymous with JRPGs. There are too many good RPGs out now to waste life on this. But that's your time wasted and not mine, so knock yourselves out.

Umnn ok? Different strokes for different folks man. We obviously don't all agree. Many "underrated" RPGs are underrated for a reason, even some of the ones I like (SaGa is too obtuse for many people and that's OK).

Also this thread is strictly for discussion related to this challenge, so maybe start a specific "Final Fantasy sucks" thread in the Square Enix forum?

Wheels · March 2014

Dear FFX-2 : why does Lulu not look pregnant? Did your graphic designers not want to create a new character model?

DarkRPGMaster · March 2014

Answer: They wanted to re-use assets from the first one without much work.

Wheels · March 2014

DarkRPGMaster wrote: »

Answer: They wanted to re-use assets from the first one without much work.

I figured as much considering the reuse of location assets!

Shinseitori · March 2014

Maybe I'm odd, but the battle system in FFX-2 is--by far--my favorite in the series.

I took a detour from FF9 into Bravely Default. I have a feeling I'm going to seriously regret trying a new JRPG with a fast-forward feature in the middle of this.

Nyx · March 2014

All right, so I am finally getting into this with Final Fantasy X HD. I should have started sooner but when I realized I was close to finishing nothing for Backlog Madness and omg tests and exams, I decided to just noodle a bit with the game. O made it to Yuna, so far the game is all right. I find the voice acting very stilted and awkward, so there's parts where it's pretty damn noticeable. I DO LOVE the music and combat system, and the story within a story narrative. So we are on good terms... for now.

Aurian · March 2014

When FFX first came out, it was the first fully voice acted game I played, so there is still a bit of inherent wonder to it. Its my favourite game of the series, so I guess my upcoming replay via VITA HD remake would not count for this challenge

Unfortunately, the games I did not enjoy in the series, I have since sold so I don't want to subject myself to those games again and pay for the experience. I'll pass on playing FFXII, FFXIII, and FFXIII-2 again, thanks (and just skilled FFXIII-3 entirely). I don't play MMORPGs so FFXI and FFXIV are out. I am hoping that (for me) the bad streak ends with FFXV, otherwise I think I am done with the series.

Wheels · March 2014

Aurian wrote: »

When FFX first came out, it was the first fully voice acted game I played, so there is still a bit of inherent wonder to it. Its my favourite game of the series, so I guess my upcoming replay via VITA HD remake would not count for this challenge

Unfortunately, the games I did not enjoy in the series, I have since sold so I don't want to subject myself to those games again and pay for the experience. I'll pass on playing FFXII, FFXIII, and FFXIII-2 again, thanks (and just skilled FFXIII-3 entirely). I don't play MMORPGs so FFXI and FFXIV are out. I am hoping that (for me) the bad streak ends with FFXV, otherwise I think I am done with the series.

The series changes often so can't see any reason not to keep checking back in. This isn't Call of Duty, XV or XVI or XVII etc. etc. etc. could be something right up your alley.

DarkRPGMaster · March 2014

Wheels wrote: »

The series changes often so can't see any reason not to keep checking back in. This isn't Call of Duty, XV or XVI or XVII etc. etc. etc. could be something right up your alley.

This is the exact thing people seem to forget, and base the entire series' success over one move they don't agree with. I have played Final Fantasy since FF4 came out on the SNES as FFII. I have played every main series Final Fantasy to date, and while I don't agree with some installments (FF3, FF9, FF12, FF13-2), I'm not going to say the entire series will be crap from here on out based on them. This is an entire series where things change constantly back and forth between things, from as far as MMO to as classic as turn based with no ATB, and often so fast (FF9-FF11 come to mind) that it's impossible to gauge the series on a few titles in a row. Especially since the greatness of the series comes from no two main titles in succession (not including direct sequels in the same universe) having the entire same team behind them.

Spartakus · March 2014

I agree, but I'm feeling more pessimistic about the series than ever. There were variations before but there was always a sense of underlying quality and narrative integrity, which I've felt wavering in the later installments, especially XIII-2 and XIII-3. The writers don't seem to care about making the stories come together anymore and you end up with a lot of stylish absurdity instead. I'm playing the FFX remaster these days and the contrast is clear in how despite the story and the world being bizarre and alien (respectively), it all fits in the end and makes sense based on its own internal logic, which is something the series has stopped doing.

DarkRPGMaster · March 2014

Spartakus wrote: »

I agree, but I'm feeling more pessimistic about the series than ever. There were variations before but there was always a sense of underlying quality and narrative integrity, which I've felt wavering in the later installments, especially XIII-2 and XIII-3. The writers don't seem to care about making the stories come together anymore and you end up with a lot of stylish absurdity instead. I'm playing the FFX remaster these days and the contrast is clear in how despite the story and the world being bizarre and alien (respectively), it all fits in the end and makes sense based on its own internal logic, which is something the series has stopped doing.

Spartakus man, I said no two main titles in succession (not including direct sequels in the same universe) have the entire same team behind them. This includes writers. Don't blame the entire series just because of the XIII trilogy, especially when XIV and XV won't have the writers from the XIII saga involved.

I swear everybody seems to forget that...also, Nojima, the scenario writer (meaning the main story, probably not the dialogue) behind the stories of FF7, FF8, FF10, Kingdom Hearts, FF10-2 (again, main campaign, not the side stuff), Advent Children, Kingdom Hearts 2, Crisis Core, Super Smash Bros Brawl (Subspace Emissary), etc, is back for FFXV.

Also yes, this does make me go on a tangent because people tend to have lapses in logic when it comes to Final Fantasy. I don't see you people doing this for the Tales series, Dragon Quest series, SaGa series, Mana series, etc. So knock it off.

Macstorm · March 2014

The FFXIII series, yes I just called it its own series, has caused people to have blinders to the FF series as a whole, and that is understandable.

That said, I have always agreed that all mainline FFs are standalone. I don't bail on the series just because I don't like one entry.

smacd · March 2014

deleted.

Wheels · March 2014

smacd wrote: »

I'm also in the very negative on Final Fantasy camp, and I don't think FFXV will be any better. Everything I've seen about it tells me it also has all the elements that I feel are really tearing down the series for me. When, over the last 17 years since the beginning of the PSX era, they have had only two games that I actually liked (FF9 and FF12). I'm still planning to play through 13-2 and 13-3, but after I finish those I'm really questioning whether I'll ever bother with FF again. I do agree that each game is different, and that leaves open the opportunity for good games to come, but as long as they look like the awful games (7,8,X,13) or are MMOs, I won't bother. I don't like generally like futurey or modern settings, and guns don't belong in my fantasy games. And I'm also done with ports/remakes of the older games I did like as well.

Final Fantasy simply rarely offers me what I'm looking for, and there are other series that do more often.

That said- Bravely Default seems so far to be the Final Fantasy game I've wanted for almost 10 years now. I hope Square realizes that those types of games are actually good and sell well, and continue making them. I'd have no problem dropping FF altogether for more Bravely Default games.

Hopefully they will, but to be fair Bravely Default has even sold remotely close to FFXIII.

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