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Active Topical Banter - Episode 19: Save the Baby - Eat the Baby
Scott Wachter
Dread News EditorRPGamer Staff
The panel breaks down the moral compass of games writers only to discover it only points two directions. We ramble on that and some related topics for a while.
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Talking points from the episode:
-breaking choice mechanics related topics into several episodes because reasons.
-ethics is hard.
-therefore black and white - so painfully obvious.
-sometimes that’s okay - ie source material.
-scales.
-consequences and costs or the lack thereof.
-teal and orange morality.
-or when half the writers miss a memo so it’s purple and red morality sometimes.
-why doesn't japan do it more?
-maximizing vs satisficing ethos and the point scale.
-gaming the system.
-locking RP into an alignment box Pal Adin/Claire Ack.
-doing it better.
Next Time: Boo! Haunted RPGs
Audibles
Archivables
Subscribables
Talking points from the episode:
-breaking choice mechanics related topics into several episodes because reasons.
-ethics is hard.
-therefore black and white - so painfully obvious.
-sometimes that’s okay - ie source material.
-scales.
-consequences and costs or the lack thereof.
-teal and orange morality.
-or when half the writers miss a memo so it’s purple and red morality sometimes.
-why doesn't japan do it more?
-maximizing vs satisficing ethos and the point scale.
-gaming the system.
-locking RP into an alignment box Pal Adin/Claire Ack.
-doing it better.
Next Time: Boo! Haunted RPGs
Comments
Goooooo wheel of morality, turn, turn, turn, tell us the lesson that we must learn!
....eat the baby, save the baby!
"That's pretty sharp!"
"But in the end, pointless."
I'm surprised no one made a "But thou must!" reference.
Honestly, I expect to have a game with a well-modeled ethical/moral system in place around the time we can all do LARPs on the holo-deck.
My book! As discussed in Q&A Quest!
Also, while Growlanser III doesn't have any major moral / ethical choices, it has an... interesting personality system. In the beginning of the game you choose your blood type and astrological sign, which influences your initial personality... Then you continue to shape your personality with dialogue decisions (and a walkthrough refers to two of the possible personality types as "good man" and "bad guy"). Certain dialogue options will be unavailable to you based on these decisions. This doesn't really have any major consequences, but it affects what type of magic your character is proficient in, and also may affect which characters you can romance / befriend.
Dragon Age: Origins and The Witcher games deal with choice & consequence pretty well.
I think some of the best moral / ethical choices I have seen in a game were in Harebrained Schemes Shadowrun games (Dragonfall DC in particular). As expected in a game where you play as a criminal there are lots of morally gray situations to deal with. The game doesn't necessarily punish / reward you for making the "right" or "wrong" decision either. For ex: in SR: Hong Kong, you witness an old guy being mugged by a gangster. You can go and intimidate the gangster into giving you the money (you'll get a Karma point if you do)... But it's up to you to decide if you actually give the guy his money back or keep it. Also, since there's no exp for killing enemies in Shadowrun, you can take the diplomatic approach to encounters without essentially being punished for not just killing everyone.
Black & white morality systems in games are usually pretty dreadful (although it was certainly understandable in KOTOR 1&2).
Playing as a paladin in Pillars of Eternity is pretty interesting . There's several different paladin orders so you basically pick the one you want to role-play as and then try to live by their code. There isn't a huge consequence for going against your order's codes; just penalties / bonuses to your defense stats. But it's still a pretty cool way to make your choices matter in small ways.
I am so happy you brought that up about Growlanser III. The personality system that it gives the player was certainly unique and it made decision making sort of interesting, nus the whole good or bad (I was a 'bad guy' in my playthrough). It was an odd little system, but I didn't feel it was a bad idea in any way. Growlanser II though, I lovelovelove that game to pieces and I want everyone to play it just because the story is done in such an interesting way. One day I will finish Growlanser IV.... ONE DAY (I should go back to it and see if I can beat the battle I got stuck on).
I have the same problem with Downcast on iOS.