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Final Fantasy XII

24

Comments

  • MonCapitan2002MonCapitan2002 Avatar Captured Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Please refrain from using the word "gay" in the fashion that you are. ?It makes look like a jack ass when you do. ?I don't see anything happy about the game either, so the traditional definition of gay wouldn't work in this case either.
    LordBilbanes.png
    Please help my city grow. Estharopolis - Population | Industry | Transportation | Security | Environment | Business
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (-Locke- @ Nov. 13 2003,22:24)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Slayer of God @ Nov. 13 2003,20:54)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"
    again the character design LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME, ever since 7 they've been reusing the same characters and change minor things. and it doesnt even just happen with the FF games, The Bouncers main character which i like to call "Sqould" is cross between cloud and squall. It's terrible, i kind of tolerated VII, i hated VIII, IX was above average, X just plain sucked, now XII looks to be like the same old rehash of X with a different storyline and setting....and possibly a suped up battle sysem. In my mind Final Fantasy is dead, they just keep using it's name and themes...but forgot about the soul.
    <span id='postcolor'>
    I find it amusing that the people who prefer the older FF games where supposedly "graphics didn't matter as much" always criticize the newer ones' graphics first. What qualifies you to determine what the 'soul' of Final Fantasy is? Sounds like a truckload of conceit to me. Please Locke, tell me another one, you're hysterical. biggrin.gif[/quote]
    can you say final fantasy X fanboy? why do 16 yr olds make accouts just to make a few posts to insult people? go away troll.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You still amuse me.

    For your information, I'm a fan of every Final Fantasy I've ever played. Which includes IV-X, plus Tactics.

    I love how people like you use knee-jerk reactions as your excuse to not like something. You've already assumed that XII is going to be crap simply from a few screenshots?! Please. You assume that I'm a FFX fanboy and a troll because I disagree with your flawed reasoning? sarcasm.gif

    If you actually used logic in determining your dislike of VII, VIII, and X, and explained in better detail why you don't like them, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Until then, you're still hysterical. biggrin.gif
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • TeresaTeresa Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MonCapitan2002 @ Nov. 14 2003,00:51)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Please refrain from using the word "gay" in the fashion that you are. ?It makes look like a jack ass when you do. ?I don't see anything happy about the game either, so the traditional definition of gay wouldn't work in this case either.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Thank you!!!!
  • Options
    edited November 2003
    When I first looked at the screens and stuff I thought we might finally be getting a prequel to FFVI(during the first war of the magi), but that was before I sore the Banga -_-

    This game looks cool, but its looks like yet another possible male lead (in the "Wandering a forest", only Van is standing there, either he's the lead or its a cut-scene)

    The picture of the judge like image in the logo is kinda strange, if you cover the top part of the judges torso (just above the white bit in the middle, below the chestplate),
    it looks(to me) a little like Aerith from FFA, like a semi-chemist, and shes kinda sloping over with her head down....(the judges upper legs are her arms)

    .....I dout it is her.
    Where are the Moogles? ~_^
  • SolonSolon Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Hm.. I can barely see what's going on when looking at the pictures.
    I'm gonna wait before I make a true comment on this game... that is, until I actually know something about it.
    Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
  • JunkyFXJunkyFX New Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Girl looks like Yuna a little bit and the guy looks like someone new to me. Someone said.. i wonder if they are twins... That be cool. Something that could add a twist to the story.

    I think it'll be good, but since the official unveiling is a few more days away....how can we judge if it'll be good or not?

    I'll wait to make any official judgement actually until I play it and have it in my own two hands...I'm assuming next year for us US fans.

    (And to everyone who was dissin FF9.. it happens to be my personal fav. biggrin.gif )
  • JunkyFXJunkyFX New Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MonCapitan2002 @ Nov. 14 2003,00:51)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Please refrain from using the word "gay" in the fashion that you are. ?It makes look like a jack ass when you do. ?I don't see anything happy about the game either, so the traditional definition of gay wouldn't work in this case either.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


    Thank you too!



  • bebop007bebop007 Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    why are people getting so hysterical about the game being too much like FFX. It's a SEQUEL for god sakes, it has to be similar to the original. did george lucas change the entire story and characters in empire strikes, wasn't it still the same inexperienced jedi in training fighting the evil empire, just like in the first one. and like empire, in FFX-2 square will some old characters and some new ones. and since when did graphics dictate the greatness of a game, i thought it relied more on story, gameplay, replay value, etc.
    \"We're about to stage an attack on technology worthy of being chronicled in an anthem by Rush!\"
  • stsestse Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    UHHHHHHHHHHHHHH hey bebop

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"why are people getting so hysterical about the game being too much like FFX. It's a SEQUEL for god sakes, it has to be similar to the original. did george lucas change the entire story and characters in empire strikes, wasn't it still the same inexperienced jedi in training fighting the evil empire, just like in the first one. and like empire, in FFX-2 square will some old characters and some new ones. and since when did graphics dictate the greatness of a game, i thought it relied more on story, gameplay, replay value, etc.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    This is Final Fantasy 12 not Final Fantasy 10-2. Get your mind together and read the news.
    I still don't get those people that say that Final Fantasy died after 7. If Final Fantasy died after 7, then why are they still creating new ones? Square won't be making more games of a series unless it is popular and good. I honestly think that character development for 8,9,and 10 were excellent. The story fit quite well, except for some holes in FF8, but still, FF is not dead.
    If people are thinking that the characters are too bland and "gay" like, then what are you expecting? What kind of characteristics are you looking for? A Marilyn Manson? SlipKnot? KISS?confused.gif?
    I am sure that stories try to make characters that you can relate to and not people that are just from Mars.
  • AdremmelechAdremmelech The Original Playa... Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Wow. We have had more newbies appear in this topic than in any other topic Ive seen. (Except for when the staff member died, cant remember the name for the life of me)

    LiQuid|Juravial

    That was friggin funny.
  • Daemon SadiDaemon Sadi Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Speaking of those newbies, what the crap? I tried to deny the fact that these boards were going bad but after reading this thread I wanted to cry. What have you people done? I love the way that when you get into arguments you start calling people "fanboys of this" "fanboys of that".....Seriously, that one guy didn't even mention FFX in his post....and then that age crap? You sound to be a lot more immature than this person that you were insulting because he's 16. I usually stay away from these threads, but my god I just couldn't take it.
  • bebop007bebop007 Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (stse @ Nov. 14 2003,06:04)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"UHHHHHHHHHHHHHH hey bebop

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"why are people getting so hysterical about the game being too much like FFX. It's a SEQUEL for god sakes, it has to be similar to the original. did george lucas change the entire story and characters in empire strikes, wasn't it still the same inexperienced jedi in training fighting the evil empire, just like in the first one. and like empire, in FFX-2 square will some old characters and some new ones. and since when did graphics dictate the greatness of a game, i thought it relied more on story, gameplay, replay value, etc.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    This is Final Fantasy 12 not Final Fantasy 10-2. Get your mind together and read the news.
    I still don't get those people that say that Final Fantasy died after 7. If Final Fantasy died after 7, then why are they still creating new ones? Square won't be making more games of a series unless it is popular and good. I honestly think that character development for 8,9,and 10 were excellent. The story fit quite well, except for some holes in FF8, but still, FF is not dead.
    If people are thinking that the characters are too bland and "gay" like, then what are you expecting? What kind of characteristics are you looking for? A Marilyn Manson? SlipKnot? KISS?confused.gif?
    I am sure that stories try to make characters that you can relate to and not people that are just from Mars.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    my apologies, in my haste, i made the grave error of mistaking one FF for another, thank you for correcting my ignorance

    p.s. not being sarcastic, i just come off that way sometimes
    \"We're about to stage an attack on technology worthy of being chronicled in an anthem by Rush!\"
  • Chris PrivitereChris Privitere Man vs. Slime, the fourth type of conflict Madison, WIAdministrators
    edited November 2003
    1. We felt a little reluctant since we posted FFVII-AC pics from the same source and had to remove them at Square-Enix's request a while ago.

    2. The pic at www.ff12.com has had a bangaa in it for forever. smile.gif

    3. What the heck, I can't believe that this isn't Nomura. It looks like his stuff. Guess this guy copied his designs?
    179811.png
  • DisasterChild8DisasterChild8 Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    Thanks MonCapitan for some anti-homophobea (sp?) on these boards.

    anyways, i think the characters are really well designed. Not every man in the world looks like a badboy bodybuilder, so i think FF should reflect that. Take FFx for example. Tidus and Seymour are quite effeminate and every other male character (especially jecht) is very manly looking.

    another thing i want to say is i really hope that the female is the lead. If i remember correctly, FF6 was the last game with a female lead and i think its about time for another one!
  • Red RavenRed Raven Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (-Locke- @ Nov. 13 2003,23:24)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"why do 16 yr olds make accouts just to make a few posts to insult people? go away troll.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (-Locke- @ Nov. 14 2003,01:14)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"you sound like my girlfriend[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    sarcasm.gif

    ? -Red Raven
  • HarryCareyHarryCarey Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    heya everyone... i'm a new staff member (and a 5-6 year user of the website), and i figured i'd greet you all and talk about the upcoming game.

    firstly, i think it's uncertain who the lead character is. while my money's on van (who doesn't look that much like a hero to me... but i don't mind that much), i wouldn't be surprised if it's ashe. also, i'm willing to bet these aren't the final character names. did you know that cloud was originally called claude (though that's kinda cool, if you ask me), and zidane was pyrus (yeck)? let's wait until the 19th for some more fun!

    also, i'm a huge fan of FFs 5-8, and i'm not so big on 9 and 10, but i won't go as far as to say the series had died; it's just found different audiences. regardless, i'll still buy ff12, if not only for the ff6 nostalgia some of the stuff has given me.



  • razafystrazafyst Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    We weren't reluctant to post the pictures, just seems nobody was around to do it till I found out about it.
  • DartDart Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    I enjoyed the first artworks. Both the characters and the backgrounds look good for me. I don't think that Vahn looks so effeminate. And even if he does, he still looks cool.
  • Options
    edited November 2003
    Let's look at this rationally. Squall looks nothing like Cloud. I admit that Zidane looks similar to Squall, but yeesh. Tidus is nothing like them. See, the thing is, everybody always talks about how the characters look, but I'm of the opinion that the game shouldn't be judges until you play it. I've worked my way through FFI through FFX. Yeah, I'm a fanatic, but I had high hopes for 8, which I claimed would be better than 7, quite frankly, I feel I was wrong. The point is, don't worry about it until it's out. It's another Final Fantasy, and it may just prove everyone wrong. So what if the battle system looks the same? Look at the Tales series. Same battle system from Phantasia till now, least as far as I know. Anyhow, what I'm getting at is, don't let your feelings on characters who may or may not look like these leads change how you feel. It IS a Final Fantasy game, but it's a sequel. Just because the visual feel makes you think of another Final Fantasy, it doesn't mean they'll be the same. Final Fantasy I, II, and III confirm this. I and III had a LOT of character sprites used in both, AND they had a similar story, but if you play one and then the other, you can tell a definate difference. Appearances can be deceiving, so quit talking about how awful or great it's going to be until we learn a bit more about it. As far as Ashe being the main character, look at VI. It didn't have a definitive lead, but ya start one half of the game with Terra, and the other half with Celes. Just wait a bit before ya trash it any more.
  • TeresaTeresa Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    There seems to be a brown haired female, blond male trend in FF...
  • HarryCareyHarryCarey Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Noi @ Nov. 14 2003,09:08)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"As far as Ashe being the main character, look at VI. ?It didn't have a definitive lead, but ya start one half of the game with Terra, and the other half with Celes.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    i heard a rumor that ff12 will be similar in that it won't have a "true" lead, but that, of course, is just a rumor. also, before ff9 was released, it was said that that game wouldn't have a true lead character... that turned out to be false (zidane is definitely the lead, if you ask me). so, i guess it works both ways.

    either way, i have faith that squareenix, now that they've put out a few games together, will come up with something great... how it will be great, of course, remains to be seen.
  • MetamaniaMetamania Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Demon_of_Elru @ Nov. 14 2003,00:44)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"OK, the main guy looks just like Zidane, Squall, Tidus and Cloud..... with an extra dose of "gayness" thrown in. I mean COME ON!!!!

    Please god I hope this isn't another FFX.... PEASE!!!!~~~

    I want an original game, with original characters. I agree with someone who posted earlier, that the FF series has been dieing and is most probably dead now after FF7. I thought FF8 was OK, but I dont want another one. FF9 was just boring for me, the story was crap. As for FFX, it was just annoying.

    I originaly had really high hopes for this game after seeing the propagander(spelling >.<) screnes, it looked more original and the people in picture had a much more darker, real kinda "Vagrant Story" look to them. .........whats happened to that??

    Oh well, in my opinion FF7 was the peak acheivment in Squares life. I think its safe to say that where not gonna get anything better than it, or as good as. But instead of just making "decent" RPG games, they start going all wierd and making "gay" games. I mean whats with FFX-2? and from the look of these FFXII characters, who are a basic ripp-off of the past games, it doesn't look like anything new or original is gonna come outta it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I don't know about that. FFIX was a great game - brought the series back to its root, so I can forgive Square for their mistake. FF8, I hate with a passion - has a good storyline and an excellent soundtrack, but the gameplay wasn't FFish to me.
    No sig available at the moment. Will get around to it when I feel like it! :D
  • JCove2010JCove2010 Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    IT looks great, however I do wish Amano was back onbord as the Character artist, I love his work! I have played through FFIV-X working on I, II, V (waiting for III) and am working on XI (on-going) FFXII is no exception. It looks more fantasy like, I love the teaser poster that we got a while ago. the characters do seem interesting. I can't wait until next Wednesday to find out more info about this game. It is kind of disturbing though, about how similar Ashe looks compared to Yuna, I swear it's the same face, I hope they tweak it to make it different. That is the only complaint I have.

    As for what people have said earlier, I don't think any of the characters in 7-X look exactly alike definitely not the same character model. They have similarities, but not so many similarities to make them look even remotely the same. ?It would be great to have a female lead again in the main stream Final Fantasy series (excluding FFX-2).

    I have nothing against showing skin but don't go overboard, that's really not what Final Fantasy is about, it's not that kind of fantasy. ?Ashe (I think that's her name) is a little borderline, especially considering her being so young.



  • Neon_tmNeon_tm Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    I really like to see all the people saying that Final Fantasy died with 7, and that 8,9,10 were all bad games...

    How do you know???
    Because you all played them..

    Why do you bougth them if you say that the fantasy died with 7, thats four bad games to buy or play in a row??
    Because you like them..

    I think that the majority of the people bashing FF are the first in the lines of the stores to buy them..

    P.S: i started playing FF with 7, maybe thats why i think it's the best because it was my initiation with rpg's but since then I played ALL the rest (i even own an original copy of FFVI AND FFIV been from Venezuela thats really hard) , and i think that the new ones aren't as good as the old ones but in no way they are BAD games, on the contrary they are all really really good games, just maybe not that good, but thats always a matter of opinion, some like more one, some like more another...

    But to say i liked a game more than another, is not the same to say that all the old ones are excelent and the new ones are CRAP like much of you are saying, heck you are saying that the new FF is gonna be crap just because of two images of the game lead characters!!!
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Daemon Sadi @ Nov. 14 2003,06:23)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Speaking of those newbies, what the crap? ?I tried to deny the fact that these boards were going bad but after reading this thread I wanted to cry. ?What have you people done? ?I love the way that when you get into arguments you start calling people "fanboys of this" "fanboys of that".....Seriously, that one guy didn't even mention FFX in his post....and then that age crap? ?You sound to be a lot more immature than this person that you were insulting because he's 16. ?I usually stay away from these threads, but my god I just couldn't take it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Thanks Daemon.

    I apologize if I came off a little condescending in my earlier posts. Although I'm a newbie poster, I've been reading these boards for quite a while, and people like that really irk me. Once again, I apologize.

    As for the artwork, as long as the artist does a good job(as he seems to be doing), I don't care who does it.

    Though I will admit that the girl's skirt is a little rediculous.

    P.S. I'm twenty wink.gif
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • Daemon SadiDaemon Sadi Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"P.S. I'm twenty [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Hmmm so both of the points he made came out of nowhere.....intruiging. tounge.gif
  • RosewoodRosewood Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Also, Squaresoft is anti-gay. ?In just about every modern game they've made, since like 6, one major villain's been a fruitcake. ?Kefka, Sephiroth (The one walking around killing people. ?Not the one from Cloud's past), Seifer (He never actually dated Rinoa. ?Just showed her around and made her feel "special"), Kuja, and Seymour. ?8 also had Adel, who was NOT a woman!! ?She was bare-chested and clearly had man-boobs.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Um, okay... so when did any of these villains state whom they wanted to sleep with, or behave towards another character in a way that made you think they were gay, or that Square had an anti-gay bias? ?Be specific.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Prettyboys are important to stories. ?Women want beefcake as much as men want to watch Lulu shake her boobs in the camera.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    This at least, I agree with. ?I "appreciate" characters like Tidus and Squall. ?wink.gif On the topic, I didn't like Van's design at first glance, but having given him a more careful look he seems like he could be really cute in motion. We shall see...one of these days.
  • Options
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HarryCarey @ Nov. 14 2003,08:15)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"heya everyone... i'm a new staff member (and a 5-6 year user of the website), and i figured i'd greet you all and talk about the upcoming game.

    firstly, i think it's uncertain who the lead character is. while my money's on van (who doesn't look that much like a hero to me... but i don't mind that much), i wouldn't be surprised if it's ashe. also, i'm willing to bet these aren't the final character names. did you know that cloud was originally called claude (though that's kinda cool, if you ask me), and zidane was pyrus (yeck)? let's wait until the 19th for some more fun!

    also, i'm a huge fan of FFs 5-8, and i'm not so big on 9 and 10, but i won't go as far as to say the series had died; it's just found different audiences. regardless, i'll still buy ff12, if not only for the ff6 nostalgia some of the stuff has given me.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"also, i'm willing to bet these aren't the final character names. did you know that cloud was originally called claude (though that's kinda cool, if you ask me), and zidane was pyrus (yeck)? let's wait until the 19th for some more fun![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Actually, naming Zidane "Pyrus" would've made sense, in a way:

    FF6 - Terra (Earth)
    FF7 - Cloud (Air)
    FF8 - Squall (Water)
    FF9 - um...Zidane?

    Maybe they just skipped FF9 and continued the trend in FF10. ?"Tidus" was supposed to be derived from an Okinawan word, Tida, meaning "sun". ?Though it's a bit of a stretch, you could interpret that to be the fourth element.
  • Options
    edited November 2003
    First off... any Final Fantasy is a successor. Not so much to Final Fantasy one through six, but, to Seven...because this is where they came up with their immaculate formula. It?s because of this formula that they will always bare strong similarities to their previous incarnations. The formula is as follows. Effeminate, spiky haired hero, brandishing large sword. Effeminate villain linked to effeminate hero, hell-bent on the worlds destruction. Brunette love interest to effeminate hero. Lengthy, entwining plot-scheme. You can see this formula play out from episodes seven to ten. Even within the confines of lesser characters, there are always great similarities to their predecessors. Yuffie, Rikku. Zell, Wakka. Barret, Steiner. I don?t even have to mention the facsimiles here-- Sephiroth, Kuja, Seymour. Tifa, Rinoa, Garnet, Yuna. Cloud, Squall, Zidane, Tidus. And now with 12 the introduction of new characters is doing nothing less than following the same formula. It?s a series. Although not sequels in the way a film picks up with the same characters as the original, it holds its title in another way. Final Fantasy wouldn?t be Final Fantasy without baring strong likeness to its many prequels. It wouldn?t make sense to change it. If you want some new character types, a different type of storyline, go play something else. Final Fantasy will remain true to what it is, it will always color inside the lines of itself. True fans flock to Final Fantasy because of the formula, even if they don?t notice it. Older fans may be disappointed, for this, that, or the other reason, but...it?s evolved, and it won?t ever return to what it once was. Until fans stop purchasing the games as they stand, it won?t change, because...it sells...and it sells because people enjoy the formula. In closing, I?ll say...don?t bother bitching, your opinions really don?t matter. There?s no democracy, and it will not change unless there?s enough negative publicity that people truly hate the games, and stop buying them. I personally love Final Fantasy, and would do nothing to change it. It?s art, and no one has right to criticize an artist?s vision. Again, if you don?t like the formula...there are plenty of other rpgs out there.
  • JCove2010JCove2010 Member Full Members
    edited November 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rosewood @ Nov. 14 2003,12:21)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Prettyboys are important to stories. ?Women want beefcake as much as men want to watch Lulu shake her boobs in the camera.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    This at least, I agree with. ?I "appreciate" characters like Tidus and Squall. ?wink.gif ?On the topic, I didn't like Van's design at first glance, but having given him a more careful look he seems like he could be really cute in motion. ?We shall see...one of these days.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    it's not that "prettyboys" are important to stories, it's more a style of Japanese Art. Look at all the ANIME out there, very rarely will you find a "manly man" because to them it's a work of art. We Americans just take this stuff for granted and don't even notice the art behind it.
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