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List 3 things that you've been upset with in RPGs.

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  • LukeTSManagerLukeTSManager Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Growlanser @ Dec. 06 2003,14:05)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"The thing that I don't like is the characters and graphics being the main focus. And I think gameplay has gotten alot boring, and there isn't as much interaction.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I always say gameplay before storyline. If the gameplay is great I will deal with the storyline. It's hard to argue with you guys because you are all console driven. Believe it or not there were old rpgs and new rpgs on the computer as well.

    From what I read in most posts other than this topic. People do not believe that games like Baldurs Gate or Neverwinter Nights have good stories. But I believe those games define what rpgs should be because you really are taking on a role. You make your choices on how to deal with people and things. You have control over all situations. Where as in let's say FFX... you can kiss those rights good bye. You might as well put on a real long movie.
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LukeTSManager @ Dec. 06 2003,12:31)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Growlanser @ Dec. 06 2003,14:05)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"The thing that I don't like is the characters and graphics being the main focus. And I think gameplay has gotten alot boring, and there isn't as much interaction.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I always say gameplay before storyline. ?If the gameplay is great I will deal with the storyline. ?It's hard to argue with you guys because you are all console driven. ?Believe it or not there were old rpgs and new rpgs on the computer as well.

    From what I read in most posts other than this topic. ?People do not believe that games like Baldurs Gate or Neverwinter Nights have good stories. ?But I believe those games define what rpgs should be because you really are taking on a role. ?You make your choices on how to deal with people and things. ?You have control over all situations. ?Where as in let's say FFX... you can kiss those rights good bye. ?You might as well put on a real long movie.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    See my earlier posts. I already went over this several times.

    I'm very much aware that there are RPG's on the PC. The thing is, I don't like them, so I don't play them.

    Just because you prefer gameplay over story and think that all RPG's should be like the ones in PC RPG's doesn't mean everybody else has to. Keep that in mind.

    One more thing, I enjoyed Final Fantasy X a lot more than most of the movies I've seen.
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • RosewoodRosewood Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    I play both sides of the fence. ?I like pretty graphics and cut-scenes, but I also like a game where I can "get under the hood" of the fighting system and find different ways to approach a given situation. ?

    For that reason, I find older games like Phantasy Star or FFIV boring because you have only a certain roster of characters at any given time, and you have to fight the same exact fight over and over and over...repetitive gameplay/combat therefore counts as #1 on my list of gripes.

    #1a is similar, but different. ?I dislike some gameplay situations where there is one, and only one, best way to do things, and if you can't figure it out, you're doomed to failure or a FAQ. ?FFT has one situation like that, and I quit Advance Wars because it seemed (after a certain point) that the whole game worked along those lines.

    "An FF Original" mentioned this in passing, but it's one of my worst gripes, my #2: ?random encounters during puzzles. ?I really enjoy a well-designed puzzle in a game, and I suppose keeping track of what the stink you're doing puzzle-wise while you're dealing with monsters every three steps is its own kind of challenge, but I personally would prefer to have either one or the other at any given time, not both!

    #3 is more common to older games than newer: ?towns that are identical to each other, aside from the skins. ?I don't get the feeling that I'm exploring a world with different, well-developed cultures when every citizen in every town everywhere looks and talks exactly the same.

    I prefer newer games, but it's not because I'm a graphics junkie who couldn't care less about gameplay. ?I never, ever get tired of hearing that though, so please continue saying it, old-schoolers.
  • RumikoholicRumikoholic Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Slayer of God @ Dec. 06 2003,07:06)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Minor point of contention on Tidus: As you mentioned earlier, he was spoiled by his mother, and emotionally abused by his father. Then his father disappears, and shortly thereafter his mother dies. Auron comes along during this and trains him in combat, while also being a pseudo-father figure.

    Later, he gets transported to a foreign world, which has a culture he doesn't understand, with people he doesn't know, and then he's told his father is essentially responsible for the suffering of thousands of people. Added to that the fact that his love interest has to meaninglessly sacrifice herself, he finds out he's nothing but a dream, and has to die for the happy ending to take place(which goes against his personal beliefs), and you've got a boatload of emotional problems.

    Quite frankly, I think he handled it quite admirably.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    On Tidus:

    Actually... ?"<span class="spoiler">It was his mother that emotionally abused him. ?His father kept telling her to go to him, but she refused to leave Jecht's side. ?Remember, after Jecht disappeared, she gave up on living and went to the far plane without being sent.

    It was because his mother neglected him that he grew to resent his dad. ?Tidus also blamed him for her death.

    Remember when he explained what the old woman told him: "When a lovebird dies, it's mate just loses the will to live." She stopped eating and just wasted away.

    It was all explained in the farplane scene in Gudosalam.</span>"

    Everyone misinterprets this for some reason. ?I guess because of the way he acts a lot of the time.

    "<span class="spoiler">He grew to understand his father better and even had some nice heart-to-hearts with Sin as the huge ball of death followed the group around. ?Of course he'd be sad he had to kill him after spending his entire life resenting a man for all the wrong reasons.

    He discovered everything he'd missed-out on and didn't even have a chance to really apologize for everything... ?It followed the tragic love story (Yes, there's more then one type of love. -_-) theme that flowed throughout the entire game.</span>"



  • LukeTSManagerLukeTSManager Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Slayer of God @ Dec. 06 2003,14:41)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"See my earlier posts. I already went over this several times.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Ummm.... ok so?

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I'm very much aware that there are RPG's on the PC. The thing is, I don't like them, so I don't play them.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Why? I explained to you why I liked them.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Just because you prefer gameplay over story and think that all RPG's should be like the ones in PC RPG's doesn't mean everybody else has to. Keep that in mind.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I prefer gameplay over story because why would you play a game with horrible or little gameplay at all. Like I said I want a video game not a movie. I also said that pc rpgs have the right idea as to what role playing actually is by giving you more control over the story. However I never said everyone else has to believe that. And if you yourself does not believe in that then you can give a proper post as to why instead of giving me a "you aren't the boss of me" childish reply.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"One more thing, I enjoyed Final Fantasy X a lot more than most of the movies I've seen.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Well at least you admitted some movies were better than it.

    One more thing. How am I an "old school gamer" if I just explained in earlier posts about newer rpgs I liked. I believe it is more about if I like squenix or not and that bothers you.
  • RumikoholicRumikoholic Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LukeTSManager @ Dec. 06 2003,14:17)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"One more thing. ?How am I an "old school gamer" if I just explained in earlier posts about newer rpgs I liked. ?I believe it is more about if I like squenix or not and that bothers you.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    If all you're interested in are gameplay and an enormous world, how could you not love Square-Enix's epic Dragon Quest series..? Dragon Quest 7 Had an enormous world (actually, 2 I guess), dozens of classes to customize your characters, a hero with no built-in personality, and hundreds of NPCs to talk to. Not to mention all of the sidequests and random fights any gamer's heart could desire. There's over 100 hours worht of gameplay packed in two Playstation CDs. Pick it up if you haven't. I tihnk you'll enjoy it.
  • LukeTSManagerLukeTSManager Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2003
    I got DW7 and you are correct. Thanks for the reference though.
  • RumikoholicRumikoholic Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (An FF Original @ Dec. 06 2003,06:46)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"The exception, to a certain extent, is Tidus. ?But he cries. ?The main character shouldn't cry. ?Especially over fustration born from his past relation with his father.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You're right. He should become an alchoholic. Becuase drinking until you pass out in a pool of your own vomit is much more healthy and manly than just letting it out and being done with it.

    Someone said Tidus was spoiled. His father was a lush, his mom ignored him, and he had to take care of himself from the age of 6. I don't think that makes him spoiled. According to the early events in the game, Auron only showed-up every once in a while. Hardly stellar child-rearing.

    Auron also liked the liquor. As I said bin another thread regarding drinking in RPGs), he used it for two of his limit breaks. If you missed the button compbos, he actually swallowed it. There ya' go.
  • RumikoholicRumikoholic Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LukeTSManager @ Dec. 06 2003,14:32)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I got DW7 and you are correct. ?Thanks for the reference though.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    It's a great game. smile.gif I've been playing it for 86 hours, now. and there's still no end in sight. tounge.gif



  • RumikoholicRumikoholic Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    1. I dislike that fangirls have the heros bound and raped by villains, direct family members, other playable characters, characters of their own creation, and random passersby.

    2. I dislike that half the stuff I read is people saying the newer games are no good.

    3. I dislike that most games I've played lately won't let me fast forward through the cut scenes and dialogue I've already seen when replaying a tough boss fight, and that the older ones were "dumbed-down" for our consumption.

    What I like:

    1. Better dialogue in the newer games. ?Well, for the most part. ?I'm glad the older games were edited to remove the obscene amount of cussing.

    2. Voice acting and cutscenes in more recent games. ?It really brings the cahracters to life, in my opinion. ?Helps me work my way through the game, since I'm dyslexic. (I don't have to read lines a few dozen times until they make sense.)

    3. The nostalgia-factor of playing through old favorites. ?The music sucked. ?The villains just flashed instead of moving when they attacked... ?Sometimes, the dialogue was completely lame and/or unitelligible. ?But, there's just something about that scene with Rydia crying - surrounded in flames - that always gets me...



  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rumikoholic @ Dec. 06 2003,14:51)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (An FF Original @ Dec. 06 2003,06:46)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"The exception, to a certain extent, is Tidus. ?But he cries. ?The main character shouldn't cry. ?Especially over fustration born from his past relation with his father.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You're right. ?He should become an alchoholic. ?Becuase drinking until you pass out in a pool of your own vomit is much more healthy and manly than just letting it out and being done with it.

    Someone said Tidus was spoiled. ?His father was a lush, his mom ignored him, and he had to take care of himself from the age of 6. ?I don't think that makes him spoiled. ?According to the early events in the game, Auron only showed-up every once in a while. ?Hardly stellar child-rearing.

    Auron also liked the liquor. ?As I said bin another thread regarding drinking in RPGs), he used it for two of his limit breaks. ?If you missed the button compbos, he actually swallowed it. ?There ya' go.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Rumikoholic: Thanks for getting my facts straight. One point of contention though.

    I think Auron's liquor bottle was more of a Japanese culture reference than it was evidence of him drinking, although he did probably drink. I believe his design was supposed to reflect his ronin-like qualities. For example, the fact that he has one arm out of his coat when he fights is supposedly a ronin-like thing to do.

    Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not the foremost authority on Japanese culture.
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • RumikoholicRumikoholic Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Slayer of God @ Dec. 06 2003,15:15)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Rumikoholic: Thanks for getting my facts straight. One point of contention though.

    I think Auron's liquor bottle was more of a Japanese culture reference than it was evidence of him drinking, although he did probably drink. I believe his design was supposed to reflect his ronin-like qualities. For example, the fact that he has one arm out of his coat when he fights is supposedly a ronin-like thing to do.

    Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not the foremost authority on Japanese culture.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You're right. He was a ronin. It fit the whole Peasent hero theme that pervades every inch of the games since FF 7.

    I would argue that it was also in 6, as I feel Locke was the hero of that game. He was, after all, the main motivation for the beginning of the plot (Saving Terra and introducing her to the Returners) and was the reason Celes left to adventure in the second half. Granted, he could also just have been Terra's and Celes' boytoy (I wouldn't mind being Celes' boytoy laugh.gif)... But, that's neither here nor there.

    Auron did enjoy his sake, though. He even raised his gourd to Sin and took a swigg in the introductory scene...

    I'm not saying he was a total staggering drunkard (Like Jecht). The practice wouldn't fall far from your typical Ronin stereotype, however...
  • An FF OriginalAn FF Original Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Where, in any "old-school" game was there an alcoholic main character? Personally, while I enjoy alcoholic drinks, taking it to that extreme disgusts me. Anyway, I suppose I should give a few reason's for liking new games:

    !) Graphics. I feel that graphics really can enhance the setting and plot, and that a lot of the short-comings of older games is the technological limitations. One reason I would like to see FFVI truly redone, no just adapted for a new system.

    The first time I played a playstation game was FFVIII. It took me awhile to get a playstation, and consequently didn't get one until just before FFIX came out. Anyway, I still had the 2D graphics of older games in mind, and honestly couldn't picture what the newer graphics would look like. Consequently, I nearly crapped my pants when I saw the opening movie for FFVIII.

    Graphics really are a god-sent for RPGs. The one downfall I can see is it becomes too easy for designers to just show you everything. As I've said before, I like a certain degree of vagueness behind the characters. It allows you to make educated guesses as to what makes the characters tick. What I really found disgusting was how they assigned a single personality trait to each character in FFIX.

    2) Gameplay. I honestly feel that it is the gameplay that has improved, while the story's and characters haven't. I liked FFIX's system. I also enjoyed the sphere grid from X. I honestly have high hopes for FFXII.

    *crosses fingers and quietly wispers, "Please have ATB"*

    The fact is, for me, I haven't been able to fall in love with the characters from an RPG since the good old days. Maybe I've become cynical in my old age, but the newer characters just don't seem to impress me as much as the older ones did.
  • RumikoholicRumikoholic Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (An FF Original @ Dec. 06 2003,15:45)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Where, in any "old-school" game was there an alcoholic main character? ?Personally, while I enjoy alcoholic drinks, taking it to that extreme disgusts me.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    How old-school do you want me to get..? Barret owned a bar in FF 7. He drank quite a bit, as I recall. Tifa just ran it. You also had to option of having Cloud drink liquor.

    Locke drank in FF 6. Cid from FF 4 drank himself into a stupor at least once, as did the foulmouthed, boozing, womanizing ninja, Edge.

    The Lunar series always had one character drank himself blind. As I recall, they had to lock the one from the first game up because he got really violent.

    Bleu (Deis) from the BOF games got drunk frequently. There was a drunken master in Legend of the Dragoon... Should I keep going?
  • An FF OriginalAn FF Original Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rumikoholic @ Dec. 06 2003,15:59)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"
    Where, in any "old-school" game was there an alcoholic main character? Personally, while I enjoy alcoholic drinks, taking it to that extreme disgusts me.
    <span id='postcolor'>
    How old-school do you want me to get..? Barret owned a bar in FF 7. He drank quite a bit, as I recall. Tifa just ran it. You also had to option of having Cloud drink liquor.

    Locke drank in FF 6. Cid from FF 4 drank himself into a stupor at least once, as did the foulmouthed, boozing, womanizing ninja, Edge.

    The Lunar series always had one character drank himself blind. As I recall, they had to lock the one from the first game up because he got really violent.

    Bleu (Deis) from the BOF games got drunk frequently. There was a drunken master in Legend of the Dragoon... Should I keep going?[/quote]
    1) Legend of Dragoon is hardly old-school.

    2) Just because someone drinks, does not make them an alcoholic. Especially if they only frank once or twice in the course of the game.

    3) Again, Cid got drunk ONCE? What kinda alcoholic gets drunk once, then doesn't drink again during the course of a grand adventure?

    4) I don't remember Bleu ever getting drunk...

    Edit: Perhaps I should define "alcoholism"

    Alcoholism - The habit of excessive drinking of alcoholic liquor, or a resulting deseased condition.



  • RumikoholicRumikoholic Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (An FF Original @ Dec. 06 2003,16:03)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Edit: Perhaps I should define "alcoholism"

    Alcoholism - The habit of excessive drinking of alcoholic liquor, or a resulting deseased condition.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You asked what characters drank in the games. Not which ones were alchoholics...

    You didn't have Cid very long in FF 4. You beat the game with Edge and he drank all the time. To the point where he could no longer function properly in some instances. Of course it didn't impede the game. It was, "funny."

    Deis drank herself into a stupor. Especially in BOF 2. It's how she hibernated. Everywhere she lived was littered in liquor bottles.

    Jecht was a main character in FF X. He was an alchoholic. He attacked a Shupuf, even. He was actually the one I was referring to.

    Most of them drank to forget their pasts. Whatever. Maybe they could just "find love" and stop one day, but that crutch would always be there whenever they had a problem. Which signifies a very real problem... Duh.

    The guy said heroes should never cry. You're the only one who mentioned old-school as a reference point...

    Also, two instances where heroes cried and it was, "Okay":

    Terra, when she first discovered love. And Celes when she jumped off the cliff... I guess it's okay because they're women. Whatever. Anyone who believes that better believe I disagree.
  • bebop007bebop007 Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rumikoholic @ Dec. 06 2003,16:32)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Also, two instances where heroes cried and it was, "Okay"

    Terra, when she first discovered love. ?And Celes when she jumped off the cliff... ?I guess it's okay because they're women. Whatever. ?Anyone who believes that better believe I disagree.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You are very correct, I believe in FF6 Sabin noticed Edgar was crying in the flashback scene in Figaro, when their father was on his deathbed.
    \"We're about to stage an attack on technology worthy of being chronicled in an anthem by Rush!\"
  • An FF OriginalAn FF Original Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Actually, this is what I said:

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Where, in any "old-school" game was there an alcoholic main character?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    And as I've stated before, I like seeing main characters that are somewhat "bad-a**" I like to see them kick some serious monster and villian a** during the course of the game, and to a certain extent crying takes away from that. However, Tidus was overly whiny anyway. That, coupled with his naivitte(sp?) just struck me as annoying. If you want to call me a conservative biggot for that, fine. It would, however, be the first time.
  • An FF OriginalAn FF Original Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bebop007 @ Dec. 06 2003,16:38)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rumikoholic @ Dec. 06 2003,16:32)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Also, two instances where heroes cried and it was, "Okay"

    Terra, when she first discovered love. And Celes when she jumped off the cliff... I guess it's okay because they're women. Whatever. Anyone who believes that better believe I disagree.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You are very correct, I believe in FF6 Sabin noticed Edgar was crying in the flashback scene in Figaro, when their father was on his deathbed.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Seeing as I'm not a biggot, I feel that is understandable. Especially since I believe the scene happened when both were younger; probably adolescents. However, my main problem is with Tidus, who comes off as whiny throughout the game.
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Tidus is an adolescent last I checked. He could also kick serious ass with his overdrive abilities. Whether or not he came off as whiny is a matter of personal opinion. Quite frankly, I'd complain too if I was in his situation.

    To his credit though, during the course of the game, he only cried once. And that was when his father was dying, so you can't really fault him for it.
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • RumikoholicRumikoholic Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (An FF Original @ Dec. 06 2003,16:48)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Seeing as I'm not a biggot, I feel that is understandable. ?Especially since I believe the scene happened when both were younger; probably adolescents. ?However, my main problem is with Tidus, who comes off as whiny throughout the game.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Tidus was only 16. Which made him a kid, still. So, he was probably the same age they were when they did. Maybe you just don't like kids..? and everyone's biggotted. the word, like many, has a very negative meaning through abuse and misuse, so you probably shouldn't use it that way.

    A more apporopriate word would probably be macho. Filled with machismo. tounge.gif And, that's how you like your characters. Only, Japan likes the girlly-boys.

    You should play more Americanized RPG series... Like Freedom Force. It's a bit silly, but there's tons of customization. You can even make your own heroes and give them whatever powers you want. As long as you have enough prestige to afford them. tounge.gif

    Also, games like Wild Arms 3, maybe... Skies of Arcadia... I dunno. I'll think about it and get back to you.
  • RumikoholicRumikoholic Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (An FF Original @ Dec. 06 2003,16:42)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Actually, this is what I said:

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Where, in any "old-school" game was there an alcoholic main character?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    And as I've stated before, I like seeing main characters that are somewhat "bad-a**" ?I like to see them kick some serious monster and villian a** during the course of the game, and to a certain extent crying takes away from that. ?However, Tidus was overly whiny anyway. ?That, coupled with his naivitte(sp?) just struck me as annoying. ?If you want to call me a conservative biggot for that, fine. ?It would, however, be the first time.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    ...You say this and sport the image of Edward, reviled the world over for being the whiniest, most useless character ever in a videogame? tounge.gif ?Not only was he an adult who cried (often), but he ran away from battle crying whenever he got hurt...

    Actually, really I liked Edward. ?Too bad he was only with the group for a short time. ?I kept thinking there was a lot more to his character that was never explored... ?And, right when he got tough enough to do anything, they yanked him out of your party and stuck him on his deathbed. ?What's up with that..? ?They did the same with addle-brained Tellah. "I don't know any spells!" "I remember!" *runs off to kill stuff on his own*

    Anyway, Tidus gets insanely tough by the end of his grid. ?He starts gaining a ton of Level 4 STR Spheres, he's fast, he can hit stuff, *and* he gets Hastega, easily the most useful spell in the game. ?Even if you just cast it over and over in boss fights to negate one of their attacks...



  • An FF OriginalAn FF Original Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    The difference between Edward and Tidus is that Edward was supposed to be a whiny pampered palace brat who's only real use is to find the Antlion and help you from the deathbed. Tidus is the hero who saves the world.

    And everyone in every RPG gets tough if leveld up high enough. Personally, I never power level, prefering to simply go through the story. The one exception to this is Tactics, when I just wanted to see what came next in the job sequence... That, and the gameplay was the driving force behind the game. Accusing someone of power-leveling in Tactics is like accusing someone of the same thing when they go back to old levels in Siphon Filter...
  • RumikoholicRumikoholic Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (An FF Original @ Dec. 06 2003,18:53)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"The difference between Edward and Tidus is that Edward was supposed to be a whiny pampered palace brat who's only real use is to find the Antlion and help you from the deathbed. ?Tidus is the hero who saves the world.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I don't power-level Tidus. ?I just use him a lot. ?He's a very useful character. ?Most of the characters are interchangable, nayway. ?Like, Lulu can kill the hardshelled monsters with her magic. ?No Auron or Khimari required.

    Tidus can also hit most flyingin enemies the majority of the time. ?Thus, eliminating Wakka's usefulness. ?He also does more damage than Wakka on the same number of slots in the sphere grid. ?So, I just used some of them predominantly, ratehr than switching everyone through every fight just to deal with enemies they were supposedly "built" for.

    My second time through, I used other characters. ?Like, Giving Yuna Black magic through Black Magic Spheres. ?Her Magic skill is higher (Though her defenses are lower) so she actually does more damage. ?Thus, eliminting the need for Lulu. ?Except to go a bit further on the grid and open up a few tougher spells. ?Still, it could be accomplished with anyone around her grid, as well. ?Like Khimari, for instance.

    I tend to use the characters I like more than the ones that I don't particularly, but I'd hardly call doing that power-leveling. ?Just personal preference.

    Edward didn't get tough... At all. ?Until the fought the Sahaguin and stopped being such a coward. ?That was the point of the fight. ?It was his closure. Right after, you lose him. They took away al ot of useful character in that game... While, I liked the ones we had to beat it with, I really liked others, as well. Like Porom and Palom, Yang, and Fu So Ya. I cna't help but think the game would have been better, had we been able to interchange them. It's all I thought about as all my favorite character switched in and out.

    I got to keep my two favorites: Rydia and Edge. But, I'd have preferred exchanging Rosa, for instance, with Porom. Who I liked better. She got all the same spells at lower levels, too making her more powerful than Rosa.

    As I said before, Tidus wasn't spoiled. ?He wasn't even particularly whiny. ?He complained a few times, but mostly he encouraged people to move ahead and was downright chipper.

    I don't think I'd be very happy if I discovered I'd been encouraging one or more of my friends to their inevitable death, either. ?He also showed a lot of maturity in accepting his fate later in the game. ?I think you got a negative first impression of him and kept it throughout the game. ?It's not bad. ?Different people react diffierently ot various things, after all. ?I just didn't see the same character you did.

    Also, this is probably the only time you'll ever hear me say this (Except about Hideki from Chobits), but the Japanese Tidus was all-round better acted and came-off a far superior character. ? While I don't think the American version of Tidus was bad, the voice actor took a lot of liberties with the character and made him come off much more emotional than was originally intended.

    I'm not one of those anal people who thinks everything should be in Japanese with annyoing 10-line subtitles that flash on the screen for all of half a second. ?I just think the choice wasn't quite right. ?I also like most of the actor's other voice acting work. ?It just didn't fit that particular character as well.



  • An FF OriginalAn FF Original Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Did anyone else catch the similarities between Lulu and Squall?
  • LukeTSManagerLukeTSManager Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2003
    Does anyone notice how much this has gotten off topic. Oh well it was good while it lasted.

    Drunk FF characters always have been more important anyways.
  • XanalithXanalith Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Stat Growth - For Once I like someone to invent a system which meant that the gamer did not have to spend hours and hours and hours battling the same kind of monster again and again just to achive a mediochre stat growth!

    Enemies / Monsters - Why is every RPG world infested with monsters? why cant we go around involved in random battles with rival 'human' enemies? (FFTA is a good step forward but still with the monsters)

    Plots That Can Only Advance Futher Through Mini-game Completion - This really drives me nutty as I just HATE minigames! With the exception of Blitzball and Tripple Triad!

    - Xan



  • LukeTSManagerLukeTSManager Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Xanalith @ Dec. 07 2003,14:02)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Stat Growth - For Once I like someone to invent a system which meant that the gamer did not have to spend hours and hours and hours battling the same kind of monster again and again just to achive a mediochre stat growth!

    Enemies / Monsters - Why is every RPG world infested with monsters? why cant we go around involved in random battles with rival 'human' enemies? (FFTA is a good step forward but still with the monsters)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Shadowrun for genesis?
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    1. People who are too busy over-analyzing a game's faults that they forget to enjoy it.

    2. People who believe that there is a certain template that all RPG's should follow, and if a RPG doesn't follow them, it's not a RPG.

    3. People who accuse today's RPG's of having too many plotholes, even though past RPG's had rampant plotholes.

    Do those count?
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • An FF OriginalAn FF Original Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"1. People who are too busy over-analyzing a game's faults that they forget to enjoy it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Normally, if I'm complaining about a game, I DIDN'T enjoy it.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"3. People who accuse today's RPG's of having too many plotholes, even though past RPG's had rampant plotholes.
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    old games had rampant plotholes? Please, do tell...
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