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Final Fantasy X-2 Review

13

Comments

  • Options
    edited December 2003
    I'd also have to disagree with this review, though I'm not sure I'd use the term "respectfully," as so many of you others have in the past.
    It seems that this reviewer feeds off attention-getting controversy--I can understand this, as a movie reviewer I've resorted to the same tactics to make a review more spicy. Jake seems to want his review to stand out amongst the hordes of reviews that praise this game as it should be praised.
    Sure, the fact that this game is a Final Fantasy demands more careful scrutiny, than, say other RPGs like the pathetically dull and bland entries of the .Hack series, but to give scores of less than 5 in categories like visuals or localization is just plain unfair.
    And when a game touts itself as Final Fantasy meets Charlie's Angels, you'd think one must be clearly illustrating his bias when he so labels the masterful costume-changing as "gratuitous" or "tasteless". For one, nearly three-quarters of these incredibly detailed, beautifully colored ensembles cover most of girl's body, from the dark knight to the black and white mages. Secondly, I'm sick and tired of post-feminists who think it is sexist for powerful female characters to embrace their feminity. Women don't have to be men to prove that they have social, political or action-hero weight.
    The main reason I'm feeling the need to complain is because I happen to think FF-X2 is one of the best games to come out of the series in years, perhaps the best since FF-7. To say this game is the least bit derivative or unoriginal when it breaks the mold with such an upbeat style and fast-paced battle system, when previous entries like FF-9 did nothing but churn out the old is completely ungrounded. This game perfects a very flawed first outing in the world of Spira. The voice-acting is much improved over FF-X's rather bland, correctly termed "hit-and-miss" voice cast. Paine's actor, bearing the perfect mix of cynical indifference and dry-wit sarcasm, in particular is a welcome addition, especially when interacting with the hilariously ditsy Rikku. The battle system is joyfully quick and--perhaps I'm alone on this one--rather challenging--the most challenging Final Fantasy for me, and yes I've placed nearly every one. Never before Final Fantasy Tactics have I felt compelled to use status-affecting magic and skills. So many enemies in this game would've killed me in seconds had I not learned to balance the different types of classes, and been able to switch between them freely.
    Even the story impressed me. While FF-X's spiritual journey was a gruelling mix of the repetitive and dull, FF-X2 keeps things as simple as they should be, allowing you to build the plot at your own pace and to a complexity that you see fit. As for the fear that one might skip through the "irrelevant" side missions and only get the gist of the overall story, it's negated by the shear amount of reward one gets out of completing said side stories (rare items and dress spheres no seasoned RPG-fan would miss the opportunity to find).
    For these reasons and more, I feel FF-X2 is a worthy addition to the FF series and deserves more credit than this reviewer has given it.
  • Oedo CowboyOedo Cowboy Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Oh, no, no. I wasn't saying people were insulted, just some may read the stataments like RPGamer is not quality and become insulted. The only person I can speak for is myself, and I'm not insulted by any of the comments.

    I agree that giving Jake's editorial/review here the Official stamp could make RPGamer look bad. I also agree it was subpar, considering I had a review whipped up withint a week of getting the game, and it was good in my opinion.

    I was just saying that someone could be insulted by the "Quality. Control" remarks. Though, yes, it is wise to make sure everything in RPGamer's name is top-notch it still can be viewed as insulting to the staff.

    Sorry I made it seem like people were insulted. As far as I know, no one is. I, like Cast, believe we are not above reproach.

    Hopefully you understand what I mean.
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I do understand.
    But.. just in case..
    If my comment on quality control insulted anyone, I'm truly sorry. That was definately not my intention.



  • RicoRico Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dracos @ Dec. 10 2003,03:50)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"On just a side thought to all this: ?I don't see why the staff reviews are really given their own topic outside of the points of view topics. ?Those really should hold those discussions too, and instead for quite a few weeks now many of the more discussion oriented reviews are being posted in their own topics. ?Why not keep it all in Points of View like it appears that it would belong?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    RPGamer policy is that the official staff review is originally posted apart from Points of View, on the main index of the page. The discussion link on the main page should really point to a separate message board thread, as otherwise it would have to be pointed towards a Points of View thread for an update the review's not contained in.
  • SephSeph New Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Well i like the ideas present in the game.
    can only lead on to better biggrin.gif
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rico @ Dec. 10 2003,14:49)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dracos @ Dec. 10 2003,03:50)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"On just a side thought to all this: I don't see why the staff reviews are really given their own topic outside of the points of view topics. Those really should hold those discussions too, and instead for quite a few weeks now many of the more discussion oriented reviews are being posted in their own topics. Why not keep it all in Points of View like it appears that it would belong?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    RPGamer policy is that the official staff review is originally posted apart from Points of View, on the main index of the page. The discussion link on the main page should really point to a separate message board thread, as otherwise it would have to be pointed towards a Points of View thread for an update the review's not contained in.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Fair enough. I just felt it seemed somewhat silly, especially with the rapid and regular updates of point of view that generally contain the same review for commenting upon mere days afterwards.

    Dracos
  • CaidCaid Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (mike the movie sage @ Dec. 10 2003,17:48)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"

    Secondly, I'm sick and tired of post-feminists who think it is sexist for powerful female characters to embrace their feminity. Women don't have to be men to prove that they have social, political or action-hero weight.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    That is perhaps true, but on the other hand, why does every woman that is supposed to be strong or heroic dress in skimpy outfits as well? How come you almost never see strong women wearing normal clothes? This "strong women want to show of the bodies"-attitude is really getting old. The very fact that this discussion is taking place is proof enough that their appearence is controversial.

    I have nothing against looking at women (I look at my wife all the time), but I can understand why women feel alienated by the constant exposure of female bodies and I sympathise with them. I mean, I would probably feel a bit strange if all male heroes were dressed in string or fitness posing outfits. Male heroes come in all shapes and sizes and granted, a few of them are dessed in revealing outfits, but there is no lack of counter examples.

    Edit: Sorry for the broken iB code.



  • CainEJWCainEJW Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    What is "normal clothing"? Unlike men, women in the real world have a larger selection of fashion. Dresses, skirts, skorts, shorts, pants, jeans, blouses, men's shirts, skimpy clubish uniforms....

    I didn't mind the costumes. As a matter of fact, as a graphic designer...I actually very much enjoyed them from an aesthetic viewpoint. Though they did seem a little overly holey, the practicality of them, the colors, and the overall designs were not that horrible.

    Spira is a tropical world, and Yuna isn't the summoner in the psuedo-kimono anymore. She had to have a uniform which was functional, and I think the default ones acheive that.

    I think people are way too focused on the costumes to truly enjoy the game. Some people truly do need to put their soapbox away and just give FFX-2 a solid chance. Stop harping on the fact it's a FF sequel, has skimpy costumes, Nobuo didn't do the music, the graphics are rehashed, blah blah blah and just simply enjoy it. I've found when I stopped looking for things to hate I was quite enamoured with this game.
  • Sylvan SorrowSylvan Sorrow Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CainEJW @ Dec. 11 2003,06:50)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"What is "normal clothing"? Unlike men, women in the real world have a larger selection of fashion. Dresses, skirts, skorts, shorts, pants, jeans, blouses, men's shirts, skimpy clubish uniforms....

    I didn't mind the costumes. As a matter of fact, as a graphic designer...I actually very much enjoyed them from an aesthetic viewpoint. Though they did seem a little overly holey, the practicality of them, the colors, and the overall designs were not that horrible.

    Spira is a tropical world, and Yuna isn't the summoner in the psuedo-kimono anymore. She had to have a uniform which was functional, and I think the default ones acheive that.

    I think people are way too focused on the costumes to truly enjoy the game. Some people truly do need to put their soapbox away and just give FFX-2 a solid chance. Stop harping on the fact it's a FF sequel, has skimpy costumes, Nobuo didn't do the music, the graphics are rehashed, blah blah blah and just simply enjoy it. I've found when I stopped looking for things to hate I was quite enamoured with this game.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Well I for one agree with you Cain. I had watched the introduction before and was completely turned off it, because it starts with Yuna as a popsinger, when it is infact a imposter (perhaps you might see that as a spoiler, but I meant to place no spoiler there as to convince people its not nearly as campy as the commecials might have you believe, and you find that out in hte first 5 minutes of the game.

    Anyways, just give the game a chance people, its really quite fun.


    (oh and hello cain)
  • Options
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"This "strong women want to show of the bodies"-attitude is really getting old.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Not only is that an *appalling* attitude in and of itself, but not all of the dresspheres show skin -- Dark Knight, anyone? White Mage? Samurai?

    The point isn't that strong women *want* to show their bodies -- it's that strong women should be *allowed* to show whatever the heck they want without people going "omg yuna is teh sluttay now". As a previous poster mentioned, Spira's a tropical world -- and you know, I personally thought that Lulu in X was a lot worse than any of the X-2 girls for sheer gratuitous...ness. Uh. Anyway, what? Do clothes define strong women? Tifa in VII wore much the same kind of clothing that the X-2 characters did. So'd Selphie in VIII, for that matter. Do they get hit with the tasteless label now, too? Because I tell ya, yellow sundress-overall crosses don't rate too high in the tasteful fashion category.

    Counter-examples? Geez, Quistis? She wears a twinset! What about Eiko? Dagger? Aeris? Rinoa? They're considered tasteless now too? I would argue that there are a lot of counter-examples for female characters as well. Do they come in all shapes? No. Would they sell in all shapes? I really doubt it, speaking from a strictly economic point of view. If Tidus had been an overweight channel-surfer rather than a blitzball player, would X have looked as good? Probably not.

    As a woman, I don't feel intimidated by the girls of FFX-2. I liked playing dressup with them, I loved some of the costumes simply for aesthetic merit (like the Gun Mage sphere and the Berserker sphere), and I thought that they were, for the most part, just a fun way to update the job system for the PS2's graphics capability. Would I wear those clothes? No, but I live in Canada. If I lived in, say, Hawai'i, some of those look less oppressively hot than jeans.

    More than anything I disliked about X-2, I liked the fact that three women were the leads. That says more to me about any supposed 'sexism' or 'bad attitude' toward women in the game than their clothing would. I'd like to kindly suggest that you take your attitudes about what women want and stop applying them across the board -- for some women, the X-2 characters may indeed be too much to take against their fragile egos. Personally? I think we can handle it just fine.

    Elle,
    delurking away from her feminism in the new security era paper ;).
  • Sylvan SorrowSylvan Sorrow Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Actualkly, look closer at some of the dark knights, they have leg bracers yes, but are also wearing a bikini armor bottom. (at least one of them is that is.)
  • CaidCaid Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Elle, I have no doubts that there are women who would very much like to dress like the characters in many videogames and that's fine with me. What I find odd however is that just because you are one of them, you assume that every other woman would like to do the same.

    I also must protest against the suggestion I argue that all women who dress like that are "slutty". That is not my point at all. But tell me this, why did Yuna have to switch styles? Wasn't she a strong character in FFX? If so, why didn't she dress like that back then? Apparently there are summoners that dress in more revealing clothers, so it can't be a professional thing. If not, why does a change of attitude imply change of clothes?

    As for your counter examples, I'll gladly admit to that there are many examples of reasonably dressed heroines in the FF-series, but on a whole, the industry seems to be going in the other direction, just make a quick suvery of a few recently released/announced games (FFX-2, Sudeki, DOA series, Soul Calibour 2 etc).

    Why do I care? I don't know, I think it's mostly since I respect the feelings of my female gamer friends.
  • TeresaTeresa Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Caid @ Dec. 11 2003,13:26)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Elle, I have no doubts that there are women who would very much like to dress like the characters in many videogames and that's fine with me. What I find odd however is that just because you are one of them, you assume that every other woman would like to do the same.

    I also must protest against the suggestion I argue that all women who dress like that are "slutty". That is not my point at all. But tell me this, why did Yuna have to switch styles? Wasn't she a strong character in FFX? If so, why didn't she dress like that back then? Apparently there are summoners that dress in more revealing clothers, so it can't be a professional thing. If not, why does a change of attitude imply change of clothes?

    As for your counter examples, I'll gladly admit to that there are many examples of reasonably dressed heroines in the FF-series, but on a whole, the industry seems to be going in the other direction, just make a quick suvery of a few recently released/announced games (FFX-2, Sudeki, DOA series, Soul Calibour 2 etc).

    Why do I care? I don't know, I think it's mostly since I respect the feelings of my female gamer friends.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Well said Caid!

    Also, it is obvious the costumes are meant to be eye candy, otherwise why would the camera angles focus a lot on close ups of the chest and backside?
  • AletheaAlethea Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Secondly, I'm sick and tired of post-feminists who think it is sexist for powerful female characters to embrace their feminity. Women don't have to be men to prove that they have social, political or action-hero weight. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Amen. I proudly embrace both my femininity and feminism, as they are completely compatible with each other (and anyone who thinks I'm some whacko butch man-hater needs to take a look at my staff bio).

    By the way, Freya (FF9) was pretty well-covered too. Most of the female outfits in FFT provided full coverage (then again, not a lot to ogle on those tiny sprites). I guess one could argue that women tend to wear skimpier clothes in games because (a) the game designers are mostly, if not all, men, and (b) men tend to be visually oriented, as far as sexual attraction goes. Yes, there are women who love a good male butt in jeans or a male chest in a semi-snug sweater (I'm one of them), but generally, guys like to look. As a feminist, I have no problem with the outfits. Lately, I've come to realize that there's good objectification and there's bad objectification. Without spending a lot of time explaining that, I think FFX-2 seems to be mostly good objectification.

    OK, I only came on here to keep up with what's going on and I got sucked into this thread (please don't hurt me, Cast...I promise I'll try to make quota!). I must stop procrastinating and write that essay over modern feminism and then tackle that book on the history of birth control. Ah, the joys of finals week in grad school.
  • Options
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"But tell me this, why did Yuna have to switch styles? Wasn't she a strong character in FFX? If so, why didn't she dress like that back then? Apparently there are summoners that dress in more revealing clothers, so it can't be a professional thing. If not, why does a change of attitude imply change of clothes?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Because she's running, jumping, and shooting guns now? I could argue that the clothing change is a symbolic metamorphosis in line with the dressphere concept, but I think I'll stay away from the really wanky stuff -- needless to say, it would literally be *impossible* to do any of that stuff in her summoner's robes. The scenes where you control Yuna on the field in FFX show her taking small steps even when she's running -- which wouldn't suit what she does in FFX-2 at all.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Elle, I have no doubts that there are women who would very much like to dress like the characters in many videogames and that's fine with me. What I find odd however is that just because you are one of them, you assume that every other woman would like to do the same.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Wow, that's a huge misrepresentation of what I said. Did you read it for context at all? I said I didn't find the costumes offensive, that none of my women friends found them offensive, and that if I lived in a tropical climate, I would probably tend towards those kind of clothes rather than heavier ones which covered my entire body. I don't care what other women wear, so long as they're comfortable -- which is exactly the point. I used myself to make a specific example that the clothes wouldn't be appropriate if the entire game took place on the peak of Mt. Gagazet, because they aren't climate-appropriate.

    Your consideration for your female friends' feelings is admirable. Applying your opinion to women across the board -- which is what I was reacting to, if you read my original post -- is not. Costumes in all games are eye candy -- and like I said, I cringe a lot more at seeing Lulu bend over and jiggle than I do at seeing Yuna's legs.

    Sincerely,

    Elle.
  • CaidCaid Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"
    Because she's running, jumping, and shooting guns now?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I don't really buy that her outfit is practical, neither that they have them because of the tropical climate. Looking at the character art you can see many costumes that aren't that light and neither were the costumes of Auron, Lulu or even Yuna in the first game.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"
    Wow, that's a huge misrepresentation of what I said.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Perhaps I need to appologize, my formulation could be wrong (english isn't my first language), but I was trying to say that you can't just use yourself as an argument as it is not more than an example.

    I'm not arguing against your right to enjoy these games, I'm arguing the right of all those women that feel left out of gaming because they feel they can't identify with women running around dressed like that. Having the male characters flaunt their body parts as well wouldn't make the whole thing much better. Most of the really great games made it without using skimpy outfits. I'd rather be able to sit down and play a game without feeling I was part of the latest MTV music video with the latest pop-idol.


    I leave you with the victory in this argument while I go play some Zelda, a game which incidentally manages to be really good while being both set in a tropical climate and free of half naked persons.


    Oh, and I agree with you on the Lulu thing, that is worse.



  • VermillionVermillion Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Perhaps we should protest that developers keep using tropical climes as settings for their games, thereby giving them convenient excuses for dressing their females in less clothing than they would get away with?

    Compare to say...the legitimate skin displayed in a volleyball game...versus the obviously blatant use of volleyball in DOA: XV in order for the developers to deliberately expose their female characters.

    Just a thought?

    Carmine M. Red
    Kairon@aol.com
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Alethea @ Dec. 11 2003,14:14)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Secondly, I'm sick and tired of post-feminists who think it is sexist for powerful female characters to embrace their feminity. Women don't have to be men to prove that they have social, political or action-hero weight. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Amen. I proudly embrace both my femininity and feminism, as they are completely compatible with each other (and anyone who thinks I'm some whacko butch man-hater needs to take a look at my staff bio).

    By the way, Freya (FF9) was pretty well-covered too. Most of the female outfits in FFT provided full coverage (then again, not a lot to ogle on those tiny sprites). I guess one could argue that women tend to wear skimpier clothes in games because (a) the game designers are mostly, if not all, men, and (b) men tend to be visually oriented, as far as sexual attraction goes. Yes, there are women who love a good male butt in jeans or a male chest in a semi-snug sweater (I'm one of them), but generally, guys like to look. As a feminist, I have no problem with the outfits. Lately, I've come to realize that there's good objectification and there's bad objectification. Without spending a lot of time explaining that, I think FFX-2 seems to be mostly good objectification.

    OK, I only came on here to keep up with what's going on and I got sucked into this thread (please don't hurt me, Cast...I promise I'll try to make quota!). I must stop procrastinating and write that essay over modern feminism and then tackle that book on the history of birth control. Ah, the joys of finals week in grad school.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I hear that, Alethea. For the record, I think the world needs more feminists like you.

    All sucking up aside, I really don't understand the big fuss over skimpy outfits in video games. Who cares? In FFX-2, you'd better worry more about defeating that Ironside before it's Storm Cannon ability obliterates you than if Yuna's showing too much skin.

    Personally, the only time I cared what the characters were wearing is when Rikku dances around in her White Mage outfit. I'll never get tired of that. biggrin.gif



    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • VermillionVermillion Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    I think you'll have to forgive us men. We're very...very...confused. What with feminism, and post-feminism, and political correctness, and our moms...
    yes...very...very...confused.

    Carmine M. Red
    Kairon@aol.com

    P.S. In my very confused, masculine opinion, I'd rather see a strong female character who is completely clothed... One, because then it means that I can be sure I'm attracted to her as a person and NOT an object, and two...she'd be unique: she wouldn't go along with the crowd of skin-bearing female characters foisted upon us, but she'd be independent enough to risk standing out.
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Vermillion @ Dec. 11 2003,14:45)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Perhaps we should protest that developers keep using tropical climes as settings for their games, thereby giving them convenient excuses for dressing their females in less clothing than they would get away with?

    Compare to say...the legitimate skin displayed in a volleyball game...versus the obviously blatant use of volleyball in DOA: XV in order for the developers to deliberately expose their female characters.

    Just a thought?

    Carmine M. Red
    Kairon@aol.com[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Why?

    Those have their places. DoAXVB was a game based on objectification and fantasy. It filled a niche and sold to that niche and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it doing so. I'd hate to have those values forced upon all of my games that I play just as much as I'd hate to have uptight superclothed values say "Hey, you can't make a bouncy fanservicy game because it might offend some turd in louisiana."

    Protesting that developers develops stuff is a silly thing. They are selling stuff, if you don't remember. If you want to 'protest', then don't buy the stuff. Buy their competitors. By the games that show the stuff you want to see and demonstrate that there is a market for it.

    It is what I do and what I feel is the capitalist way of handling it. Not with 'protests' of word but with the dollar that they seek. I know for all their bounce and skin, the girls of the DoAXVB never got a penny for their developers from me. And that I think is enough. They got money from those who did desire those things, and that's cool. That's how it should be.

    Dracos
  • CainEJWCainEJW Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    ...and here I was thinking the costumes were just ways to re-invent the characters and fit into their surroundings.

    All the sudden game makers are objectifying women degrading the feminist moment, and destroying the ideal of a strong women just because they put Yuna in short shorts.

    Damn, next the use of a doomsday weapon will be a metaphore for the Iraqi war and the oppression of the people will be a direct reference to post-NAZI Germany. Who knew video games were all about political statements and no longer about entertainment?

    Frankly put, people who are so caught up in their own ideals to persecute a form of entertainment with no damaging message really need to stop taking themselves seriously. Final Fantasy X-2 isn't setting back the feminist movement any more than Kefka set back mental patients rights. Final Fantasy X-2 isn't telling kids that women are nothing more than sex objects...I'm sorry, but did all of you skip the part about these three women being not only the heroes of the story, but also having the strength both physically and emotionally to sustain a journey maybe 2% of people could ever make?

    Did we miss the fact that these characters are heroes in a story...or are we ignoring it because they wear short shorts and thats BAD!



  • RosewoodRosewood Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    I don't know any of that "good objectification/bad objectification" jazz, but I'm another het female who isn't bothered at all by the gals' outfits. I really like most of the costumes, and the ones I dislike are for aesthetic reasons, not because of strident feminist offense. Even the periodic opportunistic camera shot isn't "bad" enough (in duration, specific angle or presumed intent) to bother me.

    Maybe part of this lack of offense was because they don't "jiggle" and they're not E+cups (they're startlingly...normal-sized for videogame gals!). And scenes that could, if handled differently, have been suggestive in a way unpleasant to me (like the massage and hot springs scenes) are absolutely harmless IMO.
  • watcherwatcher Veteran RPGamer Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Desh @ Dec. 10 2003,06:44)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"By the simple yet amazing game logic that, if you don't see the town, it's not there, all the towns present in FFX made up the entirety of the world as we know it. ?The original airship's Search feature would have found them if they were there, after all.

    Mmm... Game logic...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    here's some better logic. If you can't go to a place on the map, you don't know what is there. Anyway, we already know that you can only go to a limited number of places in FFX since you could only get back to the airship by save point...new save points=new places to visit with airship.

    game logic is pretty darn versitile. either way, we know that just because you don't see something doesn't mean it isn't there.
  • TeresaTeresa Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    What is interesting is a lot of people are pointing out that Yuna and company are showing they can be strong and beautiful by wearing what they do. However, there is no real Yuna making this decision. The game makers are the ones who designed the costumes and you have to ask if they were thinking about feminist issues or how much fanservice they could pack in when they made them.
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Teresa @ Dec. 11 2003,23:21)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"What is interesting is a lot of people are pointing out that Yuna and company are showing they can be strong and beautiful by wearing what they do. ?However, there is no real Yuna making this decision. The game makers are the ones who designed the costumes and you have to ask if they were thinking about feminist issues or how much fanservice they could pack in when they made them.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Did you not read Cain's post? Please do so if you haven't.

    sigh I long for the day when people stop nitpicking every little nuance of a video game and just enjoy it again.
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • VermillionVermillion Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Vermillion @ Dec. 11 2003,15:02)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"P.S. In my very confused, masculine opinion, I'd rather see a strong female character who is completely clothed... One, because then it means that I can be sure I'm attracted to her as a person and NOT an object, and two...she'd be unique: she wouldn't go along with the crowd of skin-bearing female characters foisted upon us, but she'd be independent enough to risk standing out.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I just realized how incorrect what I said was.

    I don't care how much skin, or how sexy an outfit would make someone look. What I care for is whether they appeal to me by the virtue of the independence or aesthetic sense that their clothing choice conveys.


    And, I get the sense that... Yuna isn't exerting any independence: the developers have given her none. It's perfectly fine for women to enjoy their sexuality (even in the case of Britney Spears, one could argue), but somehow, I don't think that Yuna's character designers had that in mind when they designed her.

    Carmine M. Red
    Kairon@aol.com
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Vermillion @ Dec. 11 2003,23:33)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Vermillion @ Dec. 11 2003,15:02)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"P.S. In my very confused, masculine opinion, I'd rather see a strong female character who is completely clothed... One, because then it means that I can be sure I'm attracted to her as a person and NOT an object, and two...she'd be unique: she wouldn't go along with the crowd of skin-bearing female characters foisted upon us, but she'd be independent enough to risk standing out.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I just realized how incorrect what I said was.

    I don't care how much skin, or how sexy an outfit would make someone look. What I care for is whether they appeal to me by the virtue of the independence or aesthetic sense that their clothing choice conveys.


    And, I get the sense that... Yuna isn't exerting any independence: the developers have given her none. It's perfectly fine for women to enjoy their sexuality (even in the case of Britney Spears, one could argue), but somehow, I don't think that Yuna's character designers had that in mind when they designed her.

    Carmine M. Red
    Kairon@aol.com[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Yeah. I'm sure that the only way to exert independence is to dress in a way that someone else thinks is an independent way to dress.

    That's a contradiction if I ever heard one.
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • TeresaTeresa Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Slayer of God @ Dec. 11 2003,23:31)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Did you not read Cain's post? Please do so if you haven't.

    sigh I long for the day when people stop nitpicking every little nuance of a video game and just enjoy it again.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I did read Cain's post.

    Why are you so upset if some people feel the costumes are offensive?

    I still don't see how having Yuna and others in bikini bottoms while trying to fight monsters isn't laughable and insulting.
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Teresa @ Dec. 11 2003,23:38)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Slayer of God @ Dec. 11 2003,23:31)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Did you not read Cain's post? Please do so if you haven't.

    sigh I long for the day when people stop nitpicking every little nuance of a video game and just enjoy it again.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I did read Cain's post.

    Why are you so upset if some people feel the costumes are offensive?

    I still don't see how having Yuna and others in bikini bottoms while trying to fight monsters isn't laughable and insulting.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Maybe because they're video game characters. If the way a video game character dresses offends you, you take things WAY too seriously.

    Whether or not you find their dressing habits offensive or not is none of my business. Honestly, I don't give a damn.

    However, video games are made to be fun(among other things), and you can't have any fun if you're too busy cross-examining the way the characters dress.

    I just don't see why it's such a big deal. They're not even real. You'll never meet them. Who cares?
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • TeresaTeresa Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Slayer of God @ Dec. 11 2003,23:51)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Maybe because they're video game characters. If the way a video game character dresses offends you, you take things WAY too seriously.

    Whether or not you find their dressing habits offensive or not is none of my business. Honestly, I don't give a damn.

    However, video games are made to be fun(among other things), and you can't have any fun if you're too busy cross-examining the way the characters dress.

    I just don't see why it's such a big deal. They're not even real. You'll never meet them. Who cares?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    The point is, people always say "video games aren't meant to be taken seriously". OK, fine. But how many video games and consoles are sold at any given time? And can you tell me, with 100% assurance, that seeing females portrayed in a certain way in video games isn't going to affect someone's opinion? That's like saying TV and movies don't affect anyone at all.
    If I had a daughter I wouldn't want her to play a game with scantily clad women, even if they were the bravest women in the whole universe of gaming. I wouldn't want my son seeing that either.
    And if video games reflect what the market wants, ie 16-25 year old males, aren't games like this saying that the buyers want to see half naked women? How can that not be some kind of commentary on society? All mediums--books, video games, TV--hold more sway and power than you think. No matter how much you say you shouldn't take things seriously, PEOPLE DO.
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Teresa @ Dec. 12 2003,00:03)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Slayer of God @ Dec. 11 2003,23:51)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Maybe because they're video game characters. If the way a video game character dresses offends you, you take things WAY too seriously.

    Whether or not you find their dressing habits offensive or not is none of my business. Honestly, I don't give a damn.

    However, video games are made to be fun(among other things), and you can't have any fun if you're too busy cross-examining the way the characters dress.

    I just don't see why it's such a big deal. They're not even real. You'll never meet them. Who cares?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    The point is, people always say "video games aren't meant to be taken seriously". ?OK, fine. ?But how many video games and consoles are sold at any given time? ?And can you tell me, with 100% assurance, that seeing females portrayed in a certain way in video games isn't going to affect someone's opinion? ?That's like saying TV and movies don't affect anyone at all.
    If I had a daughter I wouldn't want her to play a game with scantily clad women, even if they were the bravest women in the whole universe of gaming. ?I wouldn't want my son seeing that either.
    And if video games reflect what the market wants, ie 16-25 year old males, aren't games like this saying that the buyers want to see half naked women? ?How can that not be some kind of commentary on society? All mediums--books, video games, TV--hold more sway and power than you think. ?No matter how much you say you shouldn't take things seriously, PEOPLE DO.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I agree completely. There are things you should take seriously in video games. However, it shouldn't be the way the characters dress.

    Do you know what I enjoyed the most about FFX-2? Yuna's development as a character. I won't mention how she developed to avoid major spoilers, but I can tell you that how she dressed was the least of my concerns during the game.

    The people who take the wrong messages from any medium are idiots. There's nothing we can do about them. Just recently, a teenager shot somebody else and himself because he got the idea that humanity was pointless from Neon Genesis Evangelion.

    In my opinion, he's better off dead.
    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
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