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Points of View - Bah, humbug!

Amish_ChiefAmish_Chief MemberFull Members
edited January 2004 in Latest Updates
Here's this week's selection of reviews. ?I?ll be back later tonight to make any corrections/revisions you guys might spot, as work calls.

However, thank you for all the emails asking about word length. ?They are getting better, and I appreciate the effort ;)
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Comments

  • OtterlandOtterland Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2003
    A little question. My review archive has 48 reviews. I also notice that my Suikoden III retroview wasn't archived. With that and my Secret of Mana retroview, I should have fifty reviews, and thus be at platinum status, should I not?
  • Anna Marie PrivitereAnna Marie Privitere Purr RPGamer Staff
    edited December 2003
    THE 10'S
    I AM BLINDED
    tounge.gif laugh.gif
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Ow...even though those are games I like I don't think all of them are worthy of 10s X_X. Oh well, merry week of overrewarding.

    Dracos
  • OtterlandOtterland Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2003
    kupomogli's a first-timer, so he can be forgiven. Remember, a ten means that a game is perfect, or very, very close to perfect. While I liked Breath of Fire III and Wild ARMs 3, I really wouldn't grade them with such high scores. I'll admit that my reviewing streak isn't exactly perfect, either. Michael Beckett's editorial on writing reviews should give some reviewing tips.

    By the way, Paul, could you please in some way address the aforementioned archiving problem? I notice that none of these reviews have been archived yet. Only my Final Fantasy Adventure retroview from the previous update got archived (and it showed up in the archive even before this update).



  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Otterland:

    Give him some time man. It hasn't even been a half hour since your first message of inquiry.

    Dracos
  • SolonSolon Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Yeah, I noticed the same archive "problem" with my Harmony of Dissonance review, but I guess I shouldn't stress you people, since you obviously have more important things to do.

    And.....ah... too many 10's indeed. I don't see how one person can give more than one game a 10... for me, a 10 is like winning a contest, there can only be one game at the top. I have only given one RPG a 10 in my entire life... and it'll probably never happen again.

    Also, I don't see why particularly new writers (recently) give games such high scores... my first review was a 6.
    Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Solon:

    Because most newcomers to reviews are newcomers because they see reviews that aren't so good on a game they love and respond with an over the top fanboyish defense of them.

    Dracos
  • Sonny CaesarSonny Caesar Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    A "10" doesn't necessarily mean the game's perfect. It simply shows that the game sets a good example for its genre, and it's highly recommended.

    Then again, Breath of Fire III does have some serious issues, even if it is an enjoyable game. A "10" just might be a little too high of a score, but that's my opinion (I'd say, at most, a "7").
  • Toasty415Toasty415 New Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    I'd have to agree with Sonny in that a 10 doesn't mean a game is perfect. I'm sure Solon would agree as well..I checked out his Xenogears review...and he doesn't seem to think everything in the game deserved a 10..yet the game deserved a 10. Thanks for agreeing with us Solon! smile.gif
  • RageRage Transcends lowly masses Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Toasty415 @ Dec. 23 2003,12:29)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I'd have to agree with Sonny in that a 10 doesn't mean a game is perfect.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    This is from one of our review criteria pages:
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"10.0, Perfect, The game is perfect in every way. (Impossible)
    9.0, Masterpiece, May have a minor flaw or two, but it doesn't interfere with the game. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    And here's a clip from our other, updated review criteria page:

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"10 = Flawless Defining a game as flawless or perfect shouldn't come along but once or twice in a reviewers career. In games of this type, every aspect of the game is well above the average and a good portion of them are incredible. If even one part of the game is lacking in some way, a '10' is not the score to give it.

    9 = Awesome Virtually a '10' for all intents and purposes. Games that achieve this score are the creme de la creme. The majority of aspects of the game are above average and some might even be very awesome... However, there is at least one minor fly in the ointment that keeps the game from perfection. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    *shrugs* That pretty much sums it up.
  • SolonSolon Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Toasty415 @ Dec. 23 2003,21:29)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I'd have to agree with Sonny in that a 10 doesn't mean a game is perfect. I'm sure Solon would agree as well..I checked out his Xenogears review...and he doesn't seem to think everything in the game deserved a 10..yet the game deserved a 10. Thanks for agreeing with us Solon! ?smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    There is no game whatsoever, in my opinion, that deserves a 10 in each section, or at least it has yet to be seen. That does not, however, mean that I can't think that a certain game can be as close to perfection as possible. Xenogears is that game for me, and thus I gave it a 10, even though it lacks in localization, graphics etc. I never said it was about the overall breakdown average. A 10 does mean that the game is, in your opinion, as close to perfection as possible (keep in mind, that the definition of perfection isn't the same for everone).

    I don't agree with you, and you'd do best not to state my opinions for me.



    Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
  • Sonny CaesarSonny Caesar Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Well, if that's the format for RPGamer, then you'd best follow it. But I personally don't think any game in this world is made to perfection, unless it was developed by Jesus or something. Of course, that's "perfect" in the absolute sense...

    But I know what you mean in this sense. If a game has fours and fives in every aspect, then the overall score wouldn't be an "8". That one reviewer was obviously a little too generous.
  • Cactuar JoeCactuar Joe Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Sweet mother mary good goddess above. Four reviews, three 10s. Kupomogli's over the top reviews rival Otterland's abuse of the perfect score. Even KainEJW's review is severely fanboyish.

    A few points; If a game has even one single flaw, it is a 9, not a 10. 10s should be given away with the same frequency as body parts. A 10 means perfect, with everything that entails. A bit more discretion, gentlemen, please. These kinds of over-the-top reviews make all reviewers look ridiculous.
  • Options
    edited December 2003
    Given the subject of working retail, and dealing with customers, I find a link to Acts of Gord to be highly mandatory. Such a priceless and classic web site for anyone not fortunate enough to have discovered it yet.
  • Amish_ChiefAmish_Chief Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Thanks for pointing out the errors, especially with the archives. ?Point being I posted the update in its entirety 15 minutes before rushing off to work. ?All excuses aside, congratulations is in order for Otterland: he's third Platinum reviewer ever for Points of View, and the first reader to hit the #50 mark.

    To Liquid: The source of my pain lies with the ungodly suburb of Mequon, a most retched hive of scum and villainy on the north side of Milwaukee. ?There seems to be some universal rule that the richer a customer is, the more inclined they are to whine about the cost of something that they can clearly afford. ?Strange, no?

    Yeah, Acts of Gord is great material ;)



  • OtterlandOtterland Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2003
    Yay...I have WAY too much free-time; college isn't helping (three-day weekends). I need a job...

    Anyway, thanks for the fixes, Amish.



  • Options
    edited December 2003
    Ha, if you're going to work the rich neighborhoods, at least get a commission job. My brother works the TV/electronics section at the American in Waukesha (which I can imagine is almost as bad, if not worse, than Mequon...), and he gets some of the longest hardest hours available to retail, but those people will go in there and spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on top of the line TVs, so it's pretty much worth putting up with the bitching. I personally couldn't do what you guys do though, not for all the bucketloads of cash on the planet. Count me out.
  • LukeTSManagerLukeTSManager Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2003
    Can someone write a review on Uncharted Waters: New Horizons?

    I suck at writing.
  • Toasty415Toasty415 New Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Rage: I wasn't trying to tell you how your review criteria should work or anything of the sorts...I was just saying in my opinion that I agreed with Sonny.

    Solon: Laf!



  • CainEJWCainEJW Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cactuar Joe @ Dec. 23 2003,17:37)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Sweet mother mary good goddess above. Four reviews, three 10s. ? ?Kupomogli's over the top reviews rival Otterland's abuse of the perfect score. Even KainEJW's review is severely fanboyish.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    It's C. Cain. As in biblical. Seriously not hard to read when I'm on the review, on staff, and on the boards. If you're going to criticize me, at least have the respect to do it with my name and not some absent-minded bastardization.

    My review reflected what the game had with a minimum of my opinion in it as I feel that is what reviews should be. In fact, of those written for FFX-2 I would say my review had the least opinion in it. I even said it was a disappointment at first, which any fanboy would never say. Apparently you think a fanboy is anyone who likes a game.

    I apologize if you think a 9 is unworthy for a game which was a direct sequal to a visually, musically, conceptually perfect. I apologize that FFX-2 used almost every element of FFX save new confusing camera angles and music, both lowering teh score for FFX-2. I apologize even more if you think someone liking a game is fanboyish. I also sincerely apologize you can't spell my name correctly.



  • Sonny CaesarSonny Caesar Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Toasty415 @ Dec. 24 2003,09:05)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I was just saying in my opinion that I agreed with Sonny.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Thanks for backing me up here.
  • Noj AirkNoj Airk Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Otterland @ Dec. 23 2003,08:30)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"A little question. My review archive has 48 reviews. I also notice that my Suikoden III retroview wasn't archived. With that and my Secret of Mana retroview, I should have fifty reviews, and thus be at platinum status, should I not?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Not bad, but I'm still waiting for Mythril, which I should only have one left to go to....but right now it's still two because my review for Xenogears has yet to be posted, despite that I submitted it three weeks ago. Don't worry about it; if you've got enough, they'll notice soon enough, when they realize their mistake. Sometimes it's so backed up that it can take a month for a change that's inevitable, let alone requested.

    Not to make it sound like I blame the review archive or the ones who run it; I can understand stuff like that if things go wrong. Also, incidently, I saw that you do have 50 reviews. Or, maybe I'm being late on pointing that out. I like to look over the archives every so often, despite that I don't really read from it all that much anymore, except when I have some real free time and keen interests.
  • Noj AirkNoj Airk Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CainEJW @ Dec. 24 2003,12:06)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"It's C. Cain. As in biblical. Seriously not hard to read when I'm on the review, on staff, and on the boards. If you're going to criticize me, at least have the respect to do it with my name and not some absent-minded bastardization.

    My review reflected what the game had with a minimum of my opinion in it as I feel that is what reviews should be. In fact, of those written for FFX-2 I would say my review had the least opinion in it. I even said it was a disappointment at first, which any fanboy would never say. Apparently you think a fanboy is anyone who likes a game.

    I apologize if you think a 9 is unworthy for a game which was a direct sequal to a visually, musically, conceptually perfect. I apologize that FFX-2 used almost every element of FFX save new confusing camera angles and music, both lowering teh score for FFX-2. I apologize even more if you think someone liking a game is fanboyish. I also sincerely apologize you can't spell my name correctly.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I agree. Having just read it, the only problems I had with the review are two little things: once in a while I didn't understand a sentence, but that happens to the best of us, and I can't fully understand the ideas involved since I never played the game, but that's not in any way related to the review being inferior to what it could or should have been. Not only did CainEJW keep the excessive opinions to a minimum, he'd probably be smart enough that, if he wrote a review based on opinion (like a long-awaited retroview), he'd mention that many of the ideas being presented were more personal than professional in nature, and it'd simply be a different type of review. He simply went with the more professional style, which is a choice made by all of us every time we choose to pick up the pen...or place our hands on a keyboard.
    So is the way of the review writer, as well as being someone unappreciated.
  • Noj AirkNoj Airk Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rage @ Dec. 23 2003,13:04)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Toasty415 @ Dec. 23 2003,12:29)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I'd have to agree with Sonny in that a 10 doesn't mean a game is perfect.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    This is from one of our review criteria pages:
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"10.0, Perfect, The game is perfect in every way. (Impossible)
    9.0, Masterpiece, May have a minor flaw or two, but it doesn't interfere with the game. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    And here's a clip from our other, updated review criteria page:

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"10 = Flawless Defining a game as flawless or perfect shouldn't come along but once or twice in a reviewers career. In games of this type, every aspect of the game is well above the average and a good portion of them are incredible. If even one part of the game is lacking in some way, a '10' is not the score to give it.

    9 = Awesome Virtually a '10' for all intents and purposes. Games that achieve this score are the creme de la creme. The majority of aspects of the game are above average and some might even be very awesome... However, there is at least one minor fly in the ointment that keeps the game from perfection. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    *shrugs* ?That pretty much sums it up.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    One of the missing aspects from the definition of perfect is also unabtainable. Also, I could very well have found FFX perfect in every way, although someone else could still be like: "Epic?! To hell with that! I wanna play football instead! Epic games are crap!"

    A 10 shouldn't in any way mark a perfect game. A 10 should mark things like "mindblowing" or "lifechanging", which is what I choose to be the basis for a 10 score. Secret of Mana is one of the best games I've ever played, but it didn't make anything really snap inside me, so I just gave it a 9.

    That's the basic way it should be, not what that criteria page suggests.
  • CainEJWCainEJW Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    I agree about my style being confusing. However, that is how I was taught.

    I say taught meaning I have had journalism classes, and my style is from those lessons. I have been trying to make the style more approachable, but hey...it beats having a style of "r u there?!"

    Thanks for the vote of confidence, Noj smile.gif
  • SolonSolon Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Noj Airk @ Dec. 25 2003,01:00)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"That's the basic way it should be, not what that criteria page suggests.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    If everybody gave out 10s on games they thought were "outstanding" or whatever, then the value of that number would instantly disappear, and this server's reviews would become just as meaningless as those seen on, let's say, gamefaqs.

    The criteria page is there for a reason. By following it, I can more easily understand the scoring in a review, since we all follow the same criterias.



    Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
  • RageRage Transcends lowly masses Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Solon @ Dec. 24 2003,17:00)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Noj Airk @ Dec. 25 2003,01:00)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"That's the basic way it should be, not what that criteria page suggests.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    If everybody gave out 10s on games they thought were "outstanding" or whatever, then the value of that number would instantly disappear, and this server's reviews would become just as meaningless as those seen on, let's say, gamefaqs.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Yes. That is absolutely correct. Thank you, Solon, for understanding the logic behind the system. I love how people want to vomit up 10's like nothing, even in the face of the criteria quotes I pointed out.
    It's kinda funny how people are like "I don't care what the site's guidelines are; I'm too cool to follow them."
  • OtterlandOtterland Banned Banned Users
    edited December 2003
    Those numbers can be a bit hard to work with sometimes. For instance, Michael Beckett's editorial on writing reviews says that giving a six to an aspect of a game means "It's got potential, but it still has some serious flaws." Really, anything has potential if you think about it, so I find it a bit arduous sometimes to go below that number.
  • Cactuar JoeCactuar Joe Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"It's C. Cain. As in biblical. Seriously not hard to read when I'm on the review, on staff, and on the boards. If you're going to criticize me, at least have the respect to do it with my name and not some absent-minded bastardization.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Yeah, sorry about the misspelling. Moving on, I would say that your review was presented with a maximum of your opinion in it. That's sort of the point of a review - to present your opinion of a game.

    I think a fanboy is anyone who vastly overrates a game. And I was referring to ALL the scores you gave FFX-2, not just the overall. 10 is a perfect score, impossible by the very guidelines set down by the people who run the section. All the angry sarcasm in the world doesn't change that.
  • RicoRico Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cactuar Joe @ Dec. 24 2003,18:35)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"10 is a perfect score, impossible by the very guidelines set down by the people who run the section. All the angry sarcasm in the world doesn't change that.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    If it 10's were meant to be impossible by the people who run the section, why would the people who run the section accept and post reviews with 10's for individual scores or the overall score?
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