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Editorials - Hold Your Breath

Joseph WithamJoseph Witham MemberFull Members
edited January 2004 in Latest Updates
Thanks to Patrick for our first rebuttal in a long time!

Read this week's articles here.
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Comments

  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Patrick, excellent rebuttal. Sums up my feelings to a T.

    Though personally I do enjoy J-pop, but that's just me. smile.gif



    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    ... What's with the wrong quote match?

    Dracos
  • Joseph WithamJoseph Witham Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Fixed.
  • HotaruHotaru New Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Actually, I'd like to take it a bit further than Patrick.
    When you talk about your own opinion it will, in a way, always be the truth because it is your truth. The problem seems to be that sometimes your truth isn't a universal truth, eg. it doesn't apply to everyone (actually, more often than not, you are the only one it applies to... sarcasm.gif ?).
    If I thought that it was cool that "<span class="spoiler"> Sephiroth killed Aerith in FFVII </span>" I have a right to believe it and to tell everybody else that this is how I feel, and they will be perfectly right to tell me that I'm full of s*** if that's what they think...
    Bottomline: Remember that your opinions are just that; your opinions...



  • Neon_tmNeon_tm Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Hotaru use the spoiler stuff when you are going to talk about this kind of things because not everybody in the world have played FFVII(they should), read the second editorial by Chris Kohler, he was writing about the spoiler he find all over the magazines and web even if he did not search them and you writed that, LOL (so please lets not make life more miserable for him LOL)

    I agree with the two editorials they are very good, and both have a good point!!!
  • HotaruHotaru New Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Neon_tm @ Dec. 30 2003,18:22)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"read the second editorial by Chris Kohler, he was writing about the spoiler he find all over the magazines and web even if he did not search them and you writed that[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You do of course realize that it's a classic review from August 1997...? sarcasm.gif
    But, point taken, I assume that it is possible to imagine that there actually are people out there who have heard about the game but haven't heard about this yet (although I doubt it...) tounge.gif
  • KrysticKrystic Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Well let me just say this. Music is what makes the game. Not only a game, but a movie as well. I mean, if you have repetitive no talent like techno music all through the u WILL loose interest. (im not saying all techno music is boring, i like techno music). I mean the music is wat makes the mood. When I saw LoTR Return of the King, I mean, i was so moved and stunned and excited. My feelings where going through the roof when the big battle commenced and they were playing the orchestrated gregorian chorus. Oh man it was great! And Square Enix does a great job in every way in the music department. I tip my hat to them.
  • DragonsoulDragonsoul Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    I don't think music makes a movie. You can watch a movie, or play a game, without music. Hell, I did that so many times by staying up late to play a rpg (and muting to not wake up my family) that it doesn't matter that much to me. It's nice to have good music, but for me, I'd rather a good storyline.

    I found the second editorial about spoilers very interesting and felt much of what he stated was true. Pre-FF7 I never had any idea on how a story would go in an rpg. I could savour the twists, and enjoy the plot. When FF7 made such a splash it brought with it a lot of media attention. It was hard not to hear about spoilers for the game. I'm not saying that FF7 is bad, or rpgs being mainstrem is bad, but that that's what comes with the territory.
  • Neon_tmNeon_tm Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hotaru @ Dec. 30 2003,10:52)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Neon_tm @ Dec. 30 2003,18:22)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"read the second editorial by Chris Kohler, he was writing about the spoiler he find all over the magazines and web even if he did not search them and you writed that[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    You do of course realize that it's a classic review from August 1997...? ?sarcasm.gif
    But, point taken, I assume that it is possible to imagine that there actually are people out there who have heard about the game but haven't heard about this yet (although I doubt it...) tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    LOL of course i know it is a classic review tounge.gif , what i ment is that you never know who has'nt played that game, for example i have a friend that he just started to play FFVII like two weeks ago because me and several of my friends told him that that game was the bomb (this friend im telling about had never played a Rpg, but he has already said that now that he played FFVII is going to start playing another games of the genre, because he liked what FFVII had to offer) so who knows who haven't played FFVII (they should be punished, but maybe it's not theyre fault)
  • VermillionVermillion Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dragonsoul @ Dec. 30 2003,11:32)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I don't think music makes a movie. You can watch a movie, or play a game, without music. Hell, I did that so many times by staying up late to play a rpg (and muting to not wake up my family) that it doesn't matter that much to me. It's nice to have good music, but for me, I'd rather a good storyline.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I heard that the test audience to Jaws fell asleep when they saw a version that didn't have any music to it...
    In my opinion, music can be very integral to the medium it's applied to.

    Carmine M. Red
    Kairon@aol.com
  • KarlinnKarlinn Member Full Members
    edited December 2003
    Music is a subtle beast. ?It adds something to a game, a movie, whatever, that just can't be easily explained; when it fits the mood, it puts you right there in the game, makes the experience more immersive. ?Even if it doesn't suck you in, a good tune can make an already great game legendary, or make an otherwise rough spot of gaming much more bearable (read: random battles).

    Of course, if the game's a complete pile to begin with, the best soundtrack in the world won't help it.

    And for the record, the "Jaws" theme is one of the most, if not THE most, recognizable pieces in music history.
  • Twilight CloudTwilight Cloud Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    WHAT!? "<span class="spoiler"> Sephiroth is the final Boss AND Aeris DIES!</span>" Darn it Chris!!! ?You spoiled it for me! GRRRRAAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!!

    O.K I played Final Fantasy VII (it's my faivirate game!) But I just couldn't control myself. laugh.gif
  • NeuromancerNeuromancer Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    when it comes to J-Pop, I guess I just have one question for people; do you honestly want to hear Britney Spears as the soundtrack to an RPG? I ask this because an American made RPG with a Britney Spears soundtrack would basically be the equivilant of a Japanese RPG with a J-Pop soundtrack. So, I ask again; do you honestly want to hear Britney Spears as the soundtrack to an RPG?
  • RicoRico Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Karlinn @ Dec. 30 2003,15:26)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"And for the record, the "Jaws" theme is one of the most, if not THE most, recognizable pieces in music history.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I think it's worth pointing out that the Jaws theme is a complete rip-off of the beginning of Dvorak's New World Symphony, 4th Movement. He could've stolen it from someone else (chromatics are hardly original), but still.?.?.?.?
  • VermillionVermillion Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Neuromancer @ Jan. 01 2004,00:02)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"when it comes to J-Pop, I guess I just have one question for people; do you honestly want to hear Britney Spears as the soundtrack to an RPG? I ask this because an American made RPG with a Britney Spears soundtrack would basically be the equivilant of a Japanese RPG with a J-Pop soundtrack. So, I ask again; do you honestly want to hear Britney Spears as the soundtrack to an RPG?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    If Britney spears got some better music writers, I wouldn't mind listening to her. That's because the song will speak for itself, J-pop, pop, classical, rock, or what-not.
  • LukeTSManagerLukeTSManager Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Neuromancer @ Jan. 01 2004,02:02)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"when it comes to J-Pop, I guess I just have one question for people; do you honestly want to hear Britney Spears as the soundtrack to an RPG? I ask this because an American made RPG with a Britney Spears soundtrack would basically be the equivilant of a Japanese RPG with a J-Pop soundtrack. So, I ask again; do you honestly want to hear Britney Spears as the soundtrack to an RPG?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    No I would definitely not like any rpg featuring music from an american pop star.

    But then again my opinion does not count because I do not have an anime sig. laugh.gif
  • NeuromancerNeuromancer Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    haha, that's right Luke, because we ALL know that an anime sig makes you an extreme uber-L337 "Otaku", right? Right???
  • LukeTSManagerLukeTSManager Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Neuromancer @ Jan. 02 2004,03:30)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"haha, that's right Luke, because we ALL know that an anime sig makes you an extreme uber-L337 "Otaku", right? Right???[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    LOL I'm so "gosu".
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Neuromancer @ Jan. 01 2004,00:02)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"when it comes to J-Pop, I guess I just have one question for people; do you honestly want to hear Britney Spears as the soundtrack to an RPG? I ask this because an American made RPG with a Britney Spears soundtrack would basically be the equivilant of a Japanese RPG with a J-Pop soundtrack. So, I ask again; do you honestly want to hear Britney Spears as the soundtrack to an RPG?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    If it's appropriate.

    You seem to be unable to "GRASP" this concept. There are times when, literally, just someone smashing a hammer on a metal anvil (as annoying as that sound can be) can be the appropriate background. So you can cheerfully point out random singer X and pretend "Wahahaha, I've come up with a clever way to make my point" but all you've really done is just demonstrate in a indisputable fashion that you cannot understand that there is a time for all musics. Can I envision a time in which a brittney spears style song would fit in perfectly with an RPG? Yes, of course I can. I might even enjoy listening to it if they did it well, even if that type of RPG wouldn't likely attract my elitest interests.

    Anyhow, nice deriding one form of music because you don't like it.

    Dracos
  • LukeTSManagerLukeTSManager Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dracos @ Jan. 02 2004,09:34)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Can I envision a time in which a brittney spears style song would fit in perfectly with an RPG? ?Yes, of course I can. ?I might even enjoy listening to it if they did it well, even if that type of RPG wouldn't likely attract my elitest interests.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    FFX-3? LOL...

    Never mind me I am just having fun.

    Bottomline is... that he thinks he has the popular opinion as to if britney spears in an rpg would suck. I agree with him. But after all of this... at least he got you to admit you would like an rpg that featured music from pop stars like britney spears just so you could back up your opinion. Which is all too funny. Well to me it is funny. laugh.gif
  • RicoRico Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dracos @ Jan. 02 2004,07:34)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"just someone smashing a hammer on a metal anvil (as annoying as that sound can be) can be the appropriate background.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Such as in Gustav Holst's Song of the Blacksmith, in his second suite for Military Band.
  • NeuromancerNeuromancer Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    Luke you summed that up very nicely.

    P.S. What the hell is "gosu"?
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rico @ Jan. 02 2004,12:19)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dracos @ Jan. 02 2004,07:34)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"just someone smashing a hammer on a metal anvil (as annoying as that sound can be) can be the appropriate background.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Such as in Gustav Holst's Song of the Blacksmith, in his second suite for Military Band.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I know. I played the anvil in that once. ^_~. It's why I thought it made an excellent choice of analogy laugh.gif. Wouldn't work in most songs or tunes, but can be darn appropriate in others.

    Dracos
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LukeTSManager @ Jan. 02 2004,10:05)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dracos @ Jan. 02 2004,09:34)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Can I envision a time in which a brittney spears style song would fit in perfectly with an RPG? Yes, of course I can. I might even enjoy listening to it if they did it well, even if that type of RPG wouldn't likely attract my elitest interests.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    FFX-3? LOL...

    Never mind me I am just having fun.

    Bottomline is... that he thinks he has the popular opinion as to if britney spears in an rpg would suck. I agree with him. But after all of this... at least he got you to admit you would like an rpg that featured music from pop stars like britney spears just so you could back up your opinion. Which is all too funny. Well to me it is funny. laugh.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Or you are just being a 'tard.

    Whoopie, you got me to admit that playing something I don't normally listen to at all might be appropriate in a given game and that your arguments don't hold water. You may both congratulate yourselves highly on managing to rip this admission out of me.

    Dracos
  • VermillionVermillion Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    WHAT? I'D love to hear Britney Spears' "You Drive Me Crazy," "Stronger," and "Hit me one more time" in a videogame! Of course, most of her other songs suck. I maintain my stance that Britney Spears needs some better song writers who know how to utilize her image and vocal style (or lack of...).

    I think what Neuromancer thinks he's asking is whether we'd like to hear BAD music in an RPG. But that isn't what he's asking us. He's asking us whether we'd like to hear Pop music in an RPG under the pretense that Pop music is bad.

    I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the pretense that pop music is bad. I enjoy bubblegum pop from the 50s and 60s... I could appreciate the Back Street Boys (and Nsync...once those punks stopped copying the BSB), I even enjoyed the music that those unnamed song writers wrote for Britney Spears to sing!

    When Neuromancer said "Britney Spears" he thought he said "bad music."
    When I say Metallica, perhaps I mean "Noise?"
    That's untenable.

    Carmine M. Red
    Kairon@aol.com
  • LukeTSManagerLukeTSManager Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dracos @ Jan. 02 2004,21:37)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Or you are just being a 'tard.

    Whoopie, you got me to admit that playing something I don't normally listen to at all might be appropriate in a given game and that your arguments don't hold water. ?You may both congratulate yourselves highly on managing to rip this admission out of me.

    Dracos[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    LOL Someone got a little pissed off...

    I congratulate myself. It was a job well done. Also in knowing I did not have to resort to name calling like you just did.


    neuromancer - Gosu is some kind of starcraft korean slang that uber nerds use to decribe someones playing ability.
  • VermillionVermillion Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    *sigh*

    It's so sad when people celebrate turning an argument into a mudslinging fight rather than turning an argument into a profitable discussion from which we can derive some form of benefit other than malicious entertainment.

    Carmine M. Red
    Kairon@aol.com
  • NeuromancerNeuromancer Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    Ok, Luke, wondered what it meant. I hear in Korea that Starcraft got so big that people were actually paid to play the game to make sure servers would always be active.

    Yeah, Luke, when the name calling starts you know any and all discussion has ended. It's like when someone's post completely tears apart some person's argument, and the guy (or gal) responds by attack that person's grammar. It's done because the grammar attacker has nothing more to say on the actual subject.

    And yeah, I'm actually going to go out on a limb here Vermillion and say that what we know today as Pop (Britney. Justin Timberlake, BSB, etc) sucks; end of story.

    I for one am sick of people that don't actually take a stand on anything and just let it dissipate into a relativistic view. Like, when people say "well, what you may call good another will call bad". Oh, really? Thanks a ton captain obvious. Or (I have to thank Maddox for this one) when people say "well, it's just your opinion". Well thank GOD you pointed that out! I mean, without that genius insight I would have mistaken it for something else!

    I say it's high time people actually grow a spine and stand up for what they believe in. If you think something sucks then damn well have the balls to say it sucks instead of hiding behind some relativistic cop-out response.



  • LukeTSManagerLukeTSManager Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Vermillion @ Jan. 03 2004,22:55)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"*sigh*

    It's so sad when people celebrate turning an argument into a mudslinging fight rather than turning an argument into a profitable discussion from which we can derive some form of benefit other than malicious entertainment.

    Carmine M. Red
    Kairon@aol.com[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    In the words of your beloved Justin Timberlake

    "Cry Me a River"

    I agree Neuro. I am not fond of pop music. It sucks. There I said it. Do I have to list reasons why I do not like it now?
  • King Jowy XXIIKing Jowy XXII Regnus Obscura Full Members
    edited January 2004
    What a strong over-reaction on both sides. There was a time when I may have considered such extremity of thought and passion for one's views to be "admirable," but now it just shows how little one respects the person on the other side of the trenches.

    Here's the deal: There is no "crisis," as stated in the article in question, but neither is the original article cause for such an in-depth rebuttal. Simply put, ENTIRE soundtracks are not being laid to J-Pop waste. One or two songs get tossed into a game, mainly as an expressive theme to set the mood opposite established themes, and everyone gets up in arms.

    Rather pointless. The games (namely Final Fantasy games, I hear) are very well orchestrated works that still have the trademark orchestral spine that held them up so well over the years. Anyone recall a little piece in FFVIII called Liberi Fatali? No, it was not a warning from Event Horizon, it was a wondertful, fully orchestral stroke of genius that evoked all of the emotion of the game as well as utilizing the powerful human element in rich, sonorous choral splendor.

    Yeah, that one...not to mention the entire soundtrack that followed. But OH. MY. GOD. Someone put in a song with lyrics...in what style?...J-POP?! When will the madness end?! It's the end of orchestral scores as we know it!

    Come on. Final Fantasy VIII had many notable pieces: Liberi Fatali, Fithos Lusec Wecos Vinosec, The Oath, Balamb Gardens ~ Ami, The Man with the Machine Gun, etc etc.

    Final Fantasy IX...again, one song balanced against an entire soundtrack of pieces that sounded anything BUT J-POP...and even if we take into account the newest games put out for us to inspect and mull over with a fine-tooth comb of musical pretention, we're still not going to find that the soundtrack has been "overrun."

    This is not an issue of the end of the traditional RPG soundtrack, and it is certainly a lot simpler than someone's views on "truth," or how people present their arguments, etc etc. It's about over-reacting to a "problem" that doesn't even exist.
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