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Points of View - Pink Slip

Amish_ChiefAmish_Chief MemberFull Members
edited January 2004 in Latest Updates
Sorry to keep all of you waiting for this week's update. ?I especially give my apologies to ASV for breaking the streak of Tuesday updates that we had. ?However, this week has a great selection of reviews from our readers, including some of our more active "boardies". ?So, I expect a great thread from this, right? ;)

I hope you all have a Happy New Year! ?Even with my...news...things are still looking to turn out as such here. ?Here's to optimism.

Comments

  • OtterlandOtterland Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2004
    Hey Amish, there were some mail troubles last week, so I might have accidentally sent in more than one copy of my reviews for Gladius and Dual Hearts. Please, just take the latest of those copies and ignore the others, since I don't want to see reposts of those reviews in coming weeks.

    Let the flaming commence!
  • SolonSolon Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    While I'm sure Otterland has his reasons for liking Wild ARMs, I would like to know a little closer why he gave the plot such a high score. A few heroes rescuing the worlds isn't any more original or interesting (as it has been used so many times) than anything else. I found the plot in the first WA to be extremely tedious and boring, but that's just me. So, what exactly did you see in it that I didn't?

    I am also amazed over how Noj Airk managed to give Xenogears a 10 in Localization. How is that even possible... that game has more spelling errors and/or weird sentences than any other game, save for perhaps Final Fantasy Tactics, or Wild ARMs 2.

    In the end, all of the reviews were good though. Good job, everyone.



    Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
  • OtterlandOtterland Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2004
    I agree. I should have probably given the story a lower score. Otherwise, the game was quite decent.
  • NeuromancerNeuromancer Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    Dude, that blows about the downsizing. Good luck with the job-hunt.
  • Toasty415Toasty415 New Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    To Solon: Mabye he liked the character a lot. You do know that stories are comprised of more than just the main plot right? For instance Arc the Lad: ToTS. While the plot was sub par I felt the characters were completely awesome. Therefore making the overall plot have a higher score. Also..While there were many games before it Wild Arms is a first generation Playstation game...that statement is in regards to yours about originality.
  • OtterlandOtterland Banned Banned Users
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"You do know that stories are comprised of more than just the main plot right?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Don't forget the setting, as well.



  • Noj AirkNoj Airk Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Solon @ Jan. 07 2004,11:44)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"I am also amazed over how Noj Airk managed to give Xenogears a 10 in Localization. How is that even possible... that game has more spelling errors and/or weird sentences than any other game, save for perhaps Final Fantasy Tactics, or Wild ARMs 2.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Honestly, I don't recall ever seeing a single line in Xenogears that didn't make sense. ?True, I am one who, around the same time, brushed off the dust from my old subtitled Kung Fu movies that I got in High School (I turn 22 in April, so it's been a few years), which easily has some of the most confusing lines I've ever heard. ?I also played a lot of Ring of Red at the time. ?Ever play that? ?It has line like: *Challenge Enemy to Fight* Badguy: "We will crush all those who get in our way!" ?Goodguy: "Not anybody will stop you anymore!" ?And me: "Wha?!?!"

    To me localization is easily as much based on the writing as the translation. ?I am not good at spelling, so I almost never catch those mistakes as often as you might, and also people tell me that I have a strong command of the language, yet I word things in various perspective ways that people don't understand, so I have to reiterate into a more universal sentence to make everyone understand. As such, my tolerance for "weird sentences" is quite high.

    I like that both Xenogears and FFTactics had very deeply written characters, very daring lines, and very strong philosophies in the screenplays, as well as almost complete lack of cliche material, so thats why I would rank games like that high in localization. ?Both games require looking at them from odd angles, but when looked at from those odd angles, they're two of the most beautifully written games ever made.

    Lastly, Xenogears was apparently made by the people who made Chrono Cross, which, IMO, easily has the most painful assemble of characters, some of the most irky lines, and the most boring of interactions between characters and NPC's, and the like. ?Even Chrono Trigger, also made by the same people, had probably the worst hero of any game (yeah, Chrono)! ?When my expectations are low when diving into an RPG, if it's of good quality, I would rate it higher than if it was just found in a normal RPG. ?That's why if there's a year where there's almost no plot-based RPG's released, and one comes out with a decent at best plot, I might rate that one with a 7 or so plot, because it's the only one around to feature one at all.

    True, not to argue with you, since we all have our ways of looking at things, and I'm sure that if I really look into your reviews, I'll find stuff I wouldn't agree with either. ?Also keep in mind that this review took me longer than my normal ones to write (and it isn't even one of my longer ones), so maybe I just dismissed any confusing lines for when I went and tackled Xenosaga immediately afterward (a game with horrible writing).



  • Noj AirkNoj Airk Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Neuromancer @ Jan. 07 2004,13:36)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Dude, that blows about the downsizing. Good luck with the job-hunt.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Totally man, I just got my hours cut to about 1/3 as much. Damn this bad economic period!
  • BloodcatBloodcat Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    Sorry to hear about your job man. And people wonder why I stick with my nice paying but oh so irritating job..
  • MetacodMetacod Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Also keep in mind that this review took me longer than my normal ones to write (and it isn't even one of my longer ones), so maybe I just dismissed any confusing lines for when I went and tackled Xenosaga immediately afterward (a game with horrible writing). [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Xenosaga's writing was at the bottom of the barrel, but Xenogears' was deep into the next barrel down. I quite literally feel that I could have written a better script, in terms of both syntax/line-by-line writing and overall event pacing.
  • Toasty415Toasty415 New Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    If you wrote the script I woudln't play it. tounge.gif

    <3 I'm just kidding guy!
  • Amish_ChiefAmish_Chief Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bloodcat @ Jan. 07 2004,17:08)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Sorry to hear about your job man. ?And people wonder why I stick with my nice paying but oh so irritating job..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    We stick with the jobs because the positives outweigh the negatives. ?Thanks. ?I'm not completely broken by this, but it was a definite slap in the face. ?To be perfectly honest, I almost feel a little sorrier for my manager, as she was the one who had to tell myself (and about 14 other people) that we were being downsized when she had nothing to do with the decision.

    Either way, I'll manage. ?I've saved, and there are some contacts to be worked. ?Yay for networking.

    One other question I'd like to ask to everyone regarding Points of View: What do you want to see out of it in the upcoming year? ?As long as we're still in the "New Year's Resolution" phase, might as well.
  • Josh CzoskiJosh Czoski Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    I think Metacod's Xenogears review was pretty much perfect. Nothing was overlooked--even the comments about the music (and the usage of themes) was spot-on. I love the artistic sense apparent here, in addition to covering all the technical points too. I'm sold.



  • SolonSolon Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Toasty415 @ Jan. 07 2004,23:02)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"To Solon: Mabye he liked the character a lot. You do know that stories are comprised of more than just the main plot right? For instance Arc the Lad: ToTS. While the plot was sub par I felt the characters were completely awesome. Therefore making the overall plot have a higher score. Also..While there were many games before it Wild Arms is a first generation Playstation game...that statement is in regards to yours about originality.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Of course, I know there's a lot more to the plot than just the main quest, that wasn't my point. I still would have wanted an explanation on what it was that made him give the score. The review explains which characters are in the game, and what their quest is. However, it doesn't seem to touch upon wether the quest was interesting or dull, or why for that matter.

    It's just something to think about... I know I've made that mistake in some of my previous reviews as well.
    Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Toasty415 @ Jan. 07 2004,14:02)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"To Solon: Mabye he liked the character a lot. You do know that stories are comprised of more than just the main plot right? For instance Arc the Lad: ToTS. While the plot was sub par I felt the characters were completely awesome. Therefore making the overall plot have a higher score. Also..While there were many games before it Wild Arms is a first generation Playstation game...that statement is in regards to yours about originality.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    AtL:ToTS and awesome characters?

    OWIE X_X

    Dracos
  • KhisanthKhisanth Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    Have to agree about the AtL thing...those characters drove me nuts! They rank #1 as the most annoying chars I've ever seen in a game.

    I had some comments about Naj's Xenogears review, mainly his complaints on the graphics. I will be the first to admit that they are as good as what we see today...but look at them in context. All the other games of that time with better graphics had fixed camera angles, no jumping, and in general had a lot less things to worry about than xenogears did. All they had to worry about was walking...slightly less complicated, no? I think that the free motion and camera range more than makes up for the somewhat shoddy graphics. I also have issues with your complaints on the FMVs. They are some of the best cinemas i've seen in a game, most drawn in a beautiful anime style. They didn't aim for the realism of say FFVIII's cinemas, so you can't really say they are worse because of that.
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dracos @ Jan. 08 2004,08:53)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"
    To Solon: Mabye he liked the character a lot. You do know that stories are comprised of more than just the main plot right? For instance Arc the Lad: ToTS. While the plot was sub par I felt the characters were completely awesome. Therefore making the overall plot have a higher score. Also..While there were many games before it Wild Arms is a first generation Playstation game...that statement is in regards to yours about originality.
    <span id='postcolor'>
    AtL:ToTS and awesome characters?

    OWIE X_X

    Dracos[/quote]
    I love it when someone expresses their opinion and it's not a popular one as it relates to the elitists.

    Toasty, keep up the good work! smile.gif



    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • Noj AirkNoj Airk Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Khisanth @ Jan. 08 2004,15:51)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"Have to agree about the AtL thing...those characters drove me nuts! ?They rank #1 as the most annoying chars I've ever seen in a game.

    I had some comments about Naj's Xenogears review, mainly his complaints on the graphics. ?I will be the first to admit that they are as good as what we see today...but look at them in context. ?All the other games of that time with better graphics had fixed camera angles, no jumping, and in general had a lot less things to worry about than xenogears did. ?All they had to worry about was walking...slightly less complicated, no? ?I think that the free motion and camera range more than makes up for the somewhat shoddy graphics. ?I also have issues with your complaints on the FMVs. ?They are some of the best cinemas i've seen in a game, most drawn in a beautiful anime style. ?They didn't aim for the realism of say FFVIII's cinemas, so you can't really say they are worse because of that.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Hey man, I agree that the anime cinemas in Xenogears were great, there just weren't enough of them. ?I also consider the opening sequence to be more of an anime sequence than a CG one.

    Also, apart from "<span class="spoiler">the crash of Solaris</span>", I thought all of the other FMV were not only rather low in CG graphic power when compared to the other Square FMV of the time (FFT and Parasite Eve), but they just didn';t show any memorable scenes, or of the cool narrative that was found in the rest of the game. ?One was just of a gear charging up and launching!

    I'm pretty sure that I mentioned that the cinematography in the game was great, but I don't put that under graphics. ?I put that under narrative, for if the graphics themselves were better, the cinematography would've only been clearer, not "better". ?Hense, why I say, that Xenogears is indeed one of the ugliest games ever made....well, graphically.

    Yo man, I write my reviews to be detailed enough so that people wouldn't say: "Man, what's up with this dude?!" Honestly man, what other gripes did you have? If you tell me I could prevent those problems later.



  • Noj AirkNoj Airk Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Solon @ Jan. 08 2004,03:26)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Toasty415 @ Jan. 07 2004,23:02)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"To Solon: Mabye he liked the character a lot. You do know that stories are comprised of more than just the main plot right? For instance Arc the Lad: ToTS. While the plot was sub par I felt the characters were completely awesome. Therefore making the overall plot have a higher score. Also..While there were many games before it Wild Arms is a first generation Playstation game...that statement is in regards to yours about originality.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Of course, I know there's a lot more to the plot than just the main quest, that wasn't my point. I still would have wanted an explanation on what it was that made him give the score. The review explains which characters are in the game, and what their quest is. However, it doesn't seem to touch upon wether the quest was interesting or dull, or why for that matter.

    It's just something to think about... I know I've made that mistake in some of my previous reviews as well.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Hey man, I only got like 8 hours into Wild Arms, but I think it's great in terms of plot. I think that his score of it was mad high because an apacalyptic plot is much more intense than silly "oh no, my father is against my freinds!" and the like. Frankly, unless the scale is of high calibur, and involves much disaster or panic for the side of good (not a happy go lucky but still totalic scale of Dark Cloud), than a game's plot is, frankly, dull. Not to say that those plots can't be boring either (look at FF8), but from what I played so far of it, Wild ARMs did it right.
  • Noj AirkNoj Airk Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Slayer of God @ Jan. 08 2004,16:24)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dracos @ Jan. 08 2004,08:53)</td></tr><tr><td class="QUOTE"
    To Solon: Mabye he liked the character a lot. You do know that stories are comprised of more than just the main plot right? For instance Arc the Lad: ToTS. While the plot was sub par I felt the characters were completely awesome. Therefore making the overall plot have a higher score. Also..While there were many games before it Wild Arms is a first generation Playstation game...that statement is in regards to yours about originality.
    <span id='postcolor'>
    AtL:ToTS and awesome characters?

    OWIE X_X

    Dracos[/quote]
    I love it when someone expresses their opinion and it's not a popular one as it relates to the elitists.

    Toasty, keep up the good work! smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Didn't have great characters, eh? Should I skip it then? Ah, you probably won't even read this, will you?
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    Arc the Lad 4 is a decent game with a good concept and subpar writing. It gets extra negative marks as they screwed up the battle system from their prior games, leaving cleric/mage/archer types at an even greater disadvantage than before. If you haven't played the previous ones or don't really care about writing that is just ###### in general or don't really care that the battle system is a pathetic shadow of the earlier AtL 2 system and that if you so much as touch the arenas they'll totally destroy your battle balance.

    Basically, there are a lot better games currently out on the market for that year and for right now to pick up. Unless you got money and time to burn I wouldn't recommend bothering with AtL 4.

    Dracos
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    What is all this hoopla about AtLII's battle system? After you get half-way through the game, it becomes nothing more than an excerise in tediousness.

    "Yeah, I want to spend almost two hours leveling up between each new dungeon so the enemies don't dodge 70% of what my characters throw at them."

    Quite frankly, I got tired of that crap, and went to play AtLIII. And despite it being pretty easy, and lacking an involving plot, I enjoyed it a lot more.

    That being said, Noj, try out AtL: TotS. While it's not the most impressive thing I've ever played, it was still pretty fun. And that's what games are supposed to be about, are they not?



    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    AtL 3?

    Um...right.

    Dracos
    *stopped playing that when random mercenaries became SUPAHEROS!*
  • Slayer of GodSlayer of God Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    So you're making fun of me because I like a game that most people don't?

    Um, right.

    Slayer of God
    "Who enjoys holding the unpopular opinion because it makes him uber-cool!"



    Within the spreading darkness, I pledged a vow to the revolution.
  • DracosDracos Member Full Members
    edited January 2004
    Nope, making fun of the game. Though if you want to take it as making fun of you, feel free.

    Dracos
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